29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

Notice that the change happens after Freedom's Progress, ie. after she's seen that you're capable of doing the job that's required of you. Which is why she softens up, as I've mentioned. Still, until the business with her sister comes up, she remains very professional. And even after it's been dealt with, if you're either female or are not romancing her, she stays professional.

The problem is that the game doesn't tell you that's why she opens up. For all we know, she could open up on the Normandy because she likes being in an office. The unexplained shift from "GTFO STFU" to "Let's talk!" is very jarring because it's unexplained. A simple "I didn't expect you would do so well on Freedom's Progress" from Miranda herself would have sufficed.

I dunno, it seemed pretty intuitive to me. She's very dismissive of you at first, but then she grudginly admits that you're a better leader than she is. I thought it made sense. There's also the fact that you were in the middle of a mission on Freedom's Progress, ie. dithering about would have been unprofessional (especially to someone who's as professional as she is). Once you get back on the Normandy, you're no longer under immediate pressure to get something done, so she has time to let up a bit and be more open.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 10:30 .

[Pacifien]

TMA LIVE wrote...
Worked in Alliance means solo?

Just because you were trained as a soldier doesn't mean you're leadership material.

[Collider]

Well my whole point was that in Mass Effect 2 itself, we don't get enough indication pre-suicide mission that Jacob is a good leader. He only briefly mentions what happened in Galaxy - and all he said was that he stopped the terrorist attack. No mention of a squad.

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

Well my whole point was that in Mass Effect 2 itself, we don't get enough indication pre-suicide mission that Jacob is a good leader. He only briefly mentions what happened in Galaxy - and all he said was that he stopped the terrorist attack. No mention of a squad.

Your all missing the point. Compared to the rest, besides Garrus and Miranda, who do your trust getting a team in and out alive based on what you know of them? Because Grunt ain't no Leader. Samara and Thane work solo. Kasumi is just a thief. Tali's team ditched her. Zaeed gets all his teammates killed. Legion ain't no team leader. Mordin is just a combat scientist. Jack kills her teammates. And you're saying, "No way, Jacob! You might have led a team or crew in Galaxy, and worked in the Alliance, but I'd still pick Jack over you as Team Leader!"

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 02 août 2010 - 10:41 .

[ciaweth]

GARRUS.

[lovgreno]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Certainly of the squad he is. I can see Miranda being better at the pushing papers bit though.

Garrus is a old friend of Shepard, that goes a long way. Shepard trusts him and that makes the others do the same. Miranda on the other hand is Cerberus, who have a well earned bad reputation. The pushing papers work is not to underestimated though. She is obviously good at that important task while Garrus might be one of the worst persons for that kind of job.
Also Garrus would gladly walk into hell with Shepard while Miranda wanted to put a controll chip in his/her head...

[Collider]

Your all missing the point. Compared to the rest, besides Garrus and Miranda, who do your trust getting a team in and out alive based on what you know of them?

No one really, based upon what the player knows jsut from playing Mass Effect 2.



Because I didn't know what happened in Galaxy until you told me. Jacob doesn't tell you that he led a team in ME2. My point wasn't that Jacob isn't team leader material, it's that the game itself - Mass Effect 2 - doesn't give you a good indication that he is.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

I'd actually pick Jacob over Miranda, because I feel that the squad doesn't trust her or believes in her enough. Garrus himself says something like that about Miranda. That half of the squad doesn't trust her.

[TMA LIVE]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

That's the point. Because those two are the best of them. Just like Samara and Jack are the best for Biotics, and Tali and Legion are best for heat vent/hacking. It's just he's another choice if they died.

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

I'd actually pick Jacob over Miranda, because I feel that the squad doesn't trust her or believes in her enough. Garrus himself says something like that about Miranda. That half of the squad doesn't trust her.

When???

[Collider]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

I'd actually pick Jacob over Miranda, because I feel that the squad doesn't trust her or believes in her enough. Garrus himself says something like that about Miranda. That half of the squad doesn't trust her.

When???

If Jack is not present during the suicide mission briefing (dead or you hacked the game or something), then Garrus says

(accusatory, pointing) "I don't want you leading the second team! Half of us don't even trust you."

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...

Your all missing the point. Compared to the rest, besides Garrus and Miranda, who do your trust getting a team in and out alive based on what you know of them?

No one really, based upon what the player knows jsut from playing Mass Effect 2.

Because I didn't know what happened in Galaxy until you told me. Jacob doesn't tell you that he led a team in ME2. My point wasn't that Jacob isn't team leader material, it's that the game itself - Mass Effect 2 - doesn't give you a good indication that he is.

It's true: we know very little of what happened in Galaxy just from the raw info we're given in ME2. Certainly not the fact that Jacob would be competent as a team leader. We're not told that about Miranda either, but at least she behaves like she's in charge. Jacob never does.

[Collider]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Do we have a vid of that up in the OP? Seems like we should.

J4ne's been recording Garrus videos for us (which is awesome), so I suppose she may be able to get it.

[Bugsie]

AAAAHHH gee Garrus thread - 8 pages in 8 hours  and the tumbleweed blowing though here on the weekend.... No fair. 

Work is stealing my fun - again

[Suzene]

Eh, I like to think of it like Jacob is not so much a trained leader, but has untapped potential. Choosing him is a leap of faith and he comes through. A lot of characters say Jacob doesn't know who or what he is, if you give him a shot at leading, it turns out that's what he is.



Miranda is a self-proclaimed leader. I actually went with her and was careful to keep Jack separated on my team just in case. I thought, incorrectly, that the worst case would just be Miranda dying if I made a bad choice, which I could totally live with.



I'm sad to say I didn't try Garrus as leader initially. In part I was unwilling to risk him, and in part it was the fate of his last squad. I was pleased when I experimented later and found he came through. Sorry Garrus, I should have trusted you.

[TMA LIVE]

Collider wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

I'd actually pick Jacob over Miranda, because I feel that the squad doesn't trust her or believes in her enough. Garrus himself says something like that about Miranda. That half of the squad doesn't trust her.

When???

If Jack is not present during the suicide mission briefing (dead or you hacked the game or something), then Garrus says

(accusatory, pointing) "I don't want you leading the second team! Half of us don't even trust you."

Well... I kind of agree with him... I didn't trust Miranda enough to lead the first team.

[Collider]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Collider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

No I'm saying I'd pick Garrus or Miranda over him.

I'd actually pick Jacob over Miranda, because I feel that the squad doesn't trust her or believes in her enough. Garrus himself says something like that about Miranda. That half of the squad doesn't trust her.

When???

If Jack is not present during the suicide mission briefing (dead or you hacked the game or something), then Garrus says

(accusatory, pointing) "I don't want you leading the second team! Half of us don't even trust you."

Well... I kind of agree with him... I didn't trust Miranda enough to lead the first team.

Same.

[Nilfalasiel]

Suzene wrote...

I'm sad to say I didn't try Garrus as leader initially. In part I was unwilling to risk him, and in part it was the fate of his last squad. I was pleased when I experimented later and found he came through. Sorry Garrus, I should have trusted you.

That's something that I see often. The thing is, what happened to Garrus' squad was through no fault of his own. He didn't fail as a leader, it's just that Sidonis was a coward. No amount of leadership on Garrus' part would've changed that. He might perhaps have known that Sidonis was a coward beforehand, but if he showed no signs of wanting to betray the team before the mercs got to him, then how could Garrus possibly have foreseen it?

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 août 2010 - 11:00 .