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[Steel Dancer]

Ah, yes "books".. wait, wait. oh yeah.

Rommel is one he'd probably appreciate. Man was assuredly on the wrong side, but he was an acknowledged genius.


hmm, top of page as well..

Modifié par Steel Dancer, 30 juin 2010 - 02:49 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Noticed all the talk about people wishing there were more from Garrus post-romance.



You know, I still maintain that I think Garrus wanted a relationship with Shepard the whole time. He never directly says so, but when he starts in about trust and respect, then gets upset when he thinks she's cheating, wants "a few moments that are just for us," assures her that "this isn't about that. This is about us," ... Yeah, the whole "us" thing heavily implies 'relationship territory.' Oh I'm sure he's perfectly willing to have sex with her or he wouldn't have agreed to that. I'm sure he's probably found her weirdly attractive, but until Shep comes on to him he wouldn't have considered interspecies sex. Maybe he even had a subconscious crush on his commander. And come on, he wants to "savor the last shot" and he did not mean that dirty. He wants to enjoy the last few moments with Shepard before that all-or-nothing moment. The fact that he doesn't want to disrupt the crew also tells me that he's not planning on hiding what they're up to. He'd just rather be up to it at a time when the crew are more focused on preparation for battle than on who their commander's sleeping with. Yeah, he's more comfortable making the conversation be about sex, but he drops plenty of clues that should tell you he wants more. Not to mention Kasumi's comment about how he really likes Shepard. If you really like someone, you're probably not going to be terribly satisfied with one night.



And has no one considered that maybe Garrus is afraid to bring up the idea of a relationship with Shepard because she might reject him? After all, she offers him sex; she doesn't exactly ask him on a date or tell him she wants to be his girlfriend. He has to skirt around the issue because he wants to test the waters. He wants more, but does she? And does she want this because it's him or because he's a turian? By that final scene when he realizes he's royally screwed up any efforts at seduction, not turning him away at least tells him that Shepard cares about him, too.

[Sialater]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Noticed all the talk about people wishing there were more from Garrus post-romance.

You know, I still maintain that I think Garrus wanted a relationship with Shepard the whole time. He never directly says so, but when he starts in about trust and respect, then gets upset when he thinks she's cheating, wants "a few moments that are just for us," assures her that "this isn't about that. This is about us," ... Yeah, the whole "us" thing heavily implies 'relationship territory.' Oh I'm sure he's perfectly willing to have sex with her or he wouldn't have agreed to that. I'm sure he's probably found her weirdly attractive, but until Shep comes on to him he wouldn't have considered interspecies sex. Maybe he even had a subconscious crush on his commander. And come on, he wants to "savor the last shot" and he did not mean that dirty. He wants to enjoy the last few moments with Shepard before that all-or-nothing moment. The fact that he doesn't want to disrupt the crew also tells me that he's not planning on hiding what they're up to. He'd just rather be up to it at a time when the crew are more focused on preparation for battle than on who their commander's sleeping with. Yeah, he's more comfortable making the conversation be about sex, but he drops plenty of clues that should tell you he wants more. Not to mention Kasumi's comment about how he really likes Shepard. If you really like someone, you're probably not going to be terribly satisfied with one night.

And has no one considered that maybe Garrus is afraid to bring up the idea of a relationship with Shepard because she might reject him? After all, she offers him sex; she doesn't exactly ask him on a date or tell him she wants to be his girlfriend. He has to skirt around the issue because he wants to test the waters. He wants more, but does she? And does she want this because it's him or because he's a turian? By that final scene when he realizes he's royally screwed up any efforts at seduction, not turning him away at least tells him that Shepard cares about him, too.

QFT.

[Bugsie]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Noticed all the talk about people wishing there were more from Garrus post-romance.

You know, I still maintain that I think Garrus wanted a relationship with Shepard the whole time. He never directly says so, but when he starts in about trust and respect, then gets upset when he thinks she's cheating, wants "a few moments that are just for us," assures her that "this isn't about that. This is about us," ... Yeah, the whole "us" thing heavily implies 'relationship territory.' Oh I'm sure he's perfectly willing to have sex with her or he wouldn't have agreed to that. I'm sure he's probably found her weirdly attractive, but until Shep comes on to him he wouldn't have considered interspecies sex. Maybe he even had a subconscious crush on his commander. And come on, he wants to "savor the last shot" and he did not mean that dirty. He wants to enjoy the last few moments with Shepard before that all-or-nothing moment. The fact that he doesn't want to disrupt the crew also tells me that he's not planning on hiding what they're up to. He'd just rather be up to it at a time when the crew are more focused on preparation for battle than on who their commander's sleeping with. Yeah, he's more comfortable making the conversation be about sex, but he drops plenty of clues that should tell you he wants more. Not to mention Kasumi's comment about how he really likes Shepard. If you really like someone, you're probably not going to be terribly satisfied with one night.

And has no one considered that maybe Garrus is afraid to bring up the idea of a relationship with Shepard because she might reject him? After all, she offers him sex; she doesn't exactly ask him on a date or tell him she wants to be his girlfriend. He has to skirt around the issue because he wants to test the waters. He wants more, but does she? And does she want this because it's him or because he's a turian? By that final scene when he realizes he's royally screwed up any efforts at seduction, not turning him away at least tells him that Shepard cares about him, too.

Oh yeah this definitely.

That world cup picture - go away for a few hours and look what happens - Mordin and the vuvuzela is a classic!!!
As for Twilight - never read or seen any of it, but I saw this
and that pretty much damned the series for me.

Modifié par Buggirl70, 30 juin 2010 - 03:15 .

[silentstephi]

Hellfirefanatic wrote...


MORDIN WITH A VUVEZELA!!! HAH!

This needs a source.  Please.  Tell me who the source for this artisitic brilliance is SO THAT I MAY GIVE THEM GIGANTIC KISSES.

^.^
This whole picture is just classic.  And yes, I totally noticed the placement of that bowl.


In other news:  Yes to the Garrus wanting things to be very awesome and serious, Brass.

In other OTHER news:
Thread 2.0 Docs is updated to page 500.

Thread 3.0 Docs is also updated, since we hit page 30. ^.^

[Sialater]

Stephi: You are teh awesome.

[battlechantress]

I love Samara's expression in that pic. Anyone else think that Mordin is trying to deafen Jacob (or drive him insane, "for science")?

Edit:  Must try and sleep now... and wonder how Joker's "advice" to Garrus goes....   

Modifié par battlechantress, 30 juin 2010 - 04:26 .

[Kim Shepard]

I just noticed that the #1 hand Garrus is wearing has three fingers. xD It's the turian version.

They look adorable in that picture, especially Urz. I like their expressions.

[Pacifien]

I guess football isn't hardcore enough for Grunt to watch.

[Qilune]

*joins Garrus/FemShep ship-club.* Hiiiii! I've played the game twice, once with Garrus the first time and the second with Thane. Garrus beats Thane hands down as an intriguing character, even though Thane is a smexy sweetie. With Garrus, you just ROOT for him and Shep to be together.

I found this awesome livejournal post about the progress of Shep and Garrus' relationship in ME1 falling into ME2 (in no small part thanks to Garrus fan loyalty) http://fifmeister.li...?thread=2147171

and how I adore this picture *sigh* ghostfire.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-After-the-Reaper-156785671
AH and this one too: aimo.deviantart.com/art/ME2-Reach-and-Flexibility-154182070

Modifié par Qilune, 30 juin 2010 - 07:13 .

[Pacifien]

Heya, Qilune! Love to talk more Garrus with you but I have to... have... to... go.... calibrate.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Qilune]

That's okay, I'm busying myself searching for awesome fanart of Garrus XD

[Collider]

Hi Qilune! Not sure if you've joined already, but you're welcome to join the Garrus fan group:



here! Lots of Garrus discussion there. And fanart.

[Bugsie]

Hi Qilune - Deviant art has a Garrus group, as well as a general Mass Effect one, there certainly is some awesome art out there. BG sighs, and wishes she could draw.....

[Chimervera]

The thread title poll is into round 2! Vote now.

The two most popular choices from this poll will go into the third and final round.

[Nilfalasiel]

That football pic is GENIUS! I especially love Tali's beer hat  But Mordin with the vuvuzela is probably just as good. And Sneaky!Thane too.

@ stephi: I totally noticed the placement of the bowl as well!

The "Calibration for Dummies" pic is also very cute, but considering how much time Garrus spends on his calibrations, I doubt that he'd need the "for Dummies" manual. It would probably be something like "100 Expert Calibration Exercises for the Patient" instead.

As for what Garrus would read, I can see biographies of famous strategists and military figures, definitely. Or bad sci-fi, just for teh lulz.

On other topics: Jacob gets a post-SM kiss? WARGL! Just when I thought I couldn't care less about his character, now I'm actively starting to dislike him. *shakefist*

They really better make up for this in ME3. It is really a shame that they missed their mark with the favourite FemShep romance this time around. Or they were just being overly paranoid about the xenophilia.

Also, I'm curious to know how we've weirded out the Tali thread...I haven't seen anything shockingly deviant on here lately. The deviant stuff is back in Clan V., no?

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 30 juin 2010 - 08:33 .

[Collider]

Also, I'm curious to know how we've weirded out the Tali thread...I haven't seen anything shockingly deviant on here lately. The deviant stuff is back in Clan V., no?

I think it's more joking and that they didn't expect the group to have a "nsfw" section.

On other topics: Jacob gets a post-SM kiss? WARGL! Just when I thought I couldn't care less about his character, now I'm actively starting to dislike him. *shakefist*

Yea...Jacob for some reason likes to make random jabs at Garrus and even used a racial slur against him. I guess that's Cerberus for you. I think he called Tali "the quarian," too. Guess he didn't even care to use her name.

They really better make up for this in ME3. It is really a shame that they missed their mark with the favourite FemShep romance this time around. Or they were just being overly paranoid about the xenophilia.

It's funny how much effort and special additions they put into Jacob's romance and he ends up not being very popular at all. I tend to think that Jacob was in part a response to the criticisms that Kaidan was "too whiny." So Jacob ends up getting majorly pissed if you try to help him with any of his problems. He doesn't want to talk about his past in depth at all. Which is lame.

Garrus & Tali have the least Normany conversation content in ME2 in general, but they're also the most popular. Also ironic. I counted up the conversations that each squad mate has. They have the least amount.

Mordin has the most (which is kind of awesome, because Mordin is great) in terms of non-romance. Thane probably has the most extensive romance in ME2. He has at least 5-6 conversations before the romance starts. It seems he's still at least a little less popular than Garrus though.

Modifié par Collider, 30 juin 2010 - 08:49 .

[Homebound]

[Homebound]

[Nilfalasiel]

@ Just_mike: Lol, poor Tali.

Collider wrote...

I think it's more joking and that they didn't expect the group to have a "nsfw" section.

Heh. I'm sure they have their own fair share of NSFW stuff too.

Yea...Jacob for some reason likes to make random jabs at Garrus and even used a racial slur against him. I guess that's Cerberus for you. I think he called Tali "the quarian," too. Guess he didn't even care to use her name.

It boggles the mind, it does. So DEM ABS and DAT SKINTIGHT SUIT are supposed to magically make everything else ok?

...Then again, I guess they also expected DAT ASS and DAT SKINTIGHT SUIT to be ok for Miranda. And well, that definitely got better results.

It's funny how much effort and special additions they put into Jacob's romance and he ends up not being very popular at all. I tend to think that Jacob was in part a response to the criticisms that Kaidan was "too whiny." So Jacob ends up getting majorly pissed if you try to help him with any of his problems. He doesn't want to talk about his past in depth at all. Which is lame.

I used to think that he was the most well-adjusted person on the Normandy. But the fact that he gets annoyed about you trying to help him seems to me like he's not all that ok with his past. I'm not saying he should be gushing and emo about it, but downright hostile?

Garrus & Tali have the least Normany conversation content in ME2 in general, but they're also the most popular. Also ironic. I counted up the conversations that each squad mate has. They have the least amount.

 
*le sigh* At least, Tali gets cuddles and a post-SM romance convo.

Mordin has the most (which is kind of awesome, because Mordin is great) in terms of non-romance. Thane probably has the most extensive romance in ME2. He has at least 5-6 conversations before the romance starts. It seems he's still at least a little less popular than Garrus though.

Yeah, I noticed that about Thane as well. Even without the romance, he had plenty to say to Shep. Which I guess is fair enough, since he's a brand new character that you know nothing about, with a somewhat unorthodox philosophy. I also had the impression that Samara had quite a few things to say, but that might be a mistaken impression. By comparison, when you're not romancing Miranda, I think she has a grand total of 3 convos, including her post-LM one, even though she's also a new character. But I guess that's compensated by her prominent storyline role. As for Jack...well, I guess it's justified that she wouldn't be very talkative unless you're romancing her.

[lovgreno]

Mordin with a vuvuzela! Brilliant.

[janeym27]

kglaser wrote...

Jackalope wrote...

"Hey...I brought hagass..."

That's one way to end a romance fast! LOL

Hey! Haggis is tastey!

Oh, and when I was asking about the wine, it was because of that picture of Garrus holding a bottle of Garrus. I was thinking about the metaphysical implications in game if he brought a bottle of himself.  (Basically, I was trying to make a crit theory joke. I failed epically. lol)

He probably did get the bringing wine advice from someone, but then again, alcohol could also be an integral part of the turian mating process as well. We know that turians certainly enjoy a drink (FYI - Drunk Garrus for ME3!!)
 

I think that Garrus did want a relationship with Shepard, but I don’t think he wants to admit to himself or to her that this is what he wants. I don’t think the idea of being romantically involved with her occurs to him until she suggests it (there are too many reasons not to: inter-species, she’s his commander, she’s his friend, she’s a god damn intergalactic hero who is currently engaged in an epic battle for the survival of the universe, etc) but once it’s out there, and he has time to process it, he realises that this is what he really wants. He realises how much he needs her (and she needs him). However, I maintain that the focus on sex during the romance build up is a way for Garrus to keep his emotional distance, leaving Shepard and ‘out’ and thus shielding him from the pain of rejection. Only at that last moment in the romance scene is he actually prepared to admit how much this means to him.
 
I’ve never been in the camp who believes that the Garrus romance is just a ‘fling’, but those people are out there. I think there are only one or two who regularly post here though which is a shame, because we’ve had the Garrus romance discussion so many times (and pretty much all of us seem to agree on the important points. lol) that it would be nice to get a detailed explanation of a totally different take on it. My feeling has always been that the Garrus/Shep romance is more about what is unsaid than what is said. Garrus is not an emotionally open individual at the best of times, and when he meets up with Shepard again he is at a lifetime low. Likewise, Shepard doesn’t really share her own feelings (emotional ones) with anybody else either (OK – so that’s partly due to the fact that she is the PC in a fairly open RPG, but still) but there is a bond of trust and understanding between them that goes beyond that.
 
Jacob, despite being the romance which feels the most ‘off’ to the majority of players (well, certainly the majority of players who care enough to come on the internet and post about it. ), is the character who asks Shepard how she is doing, who gets to tell her he loves her, who has some post-sm closure. By and large, when comparing this to the Garrus romance, we seem to tend to take the view that BW totally miscalculated and misjudged the popularity of their LI characters, and put the focus in the wrong place. This is probably accurate, however I think that there is another way to read this comparison (in terms of character analysis). I’ve already talked about the bond of trust between Shepard and Garrus, as well as the element of mutual understanding which exists between them (even in the less popular “Garrus was never ME1 recruited” scenario, his attitude and state of mind seem to compliment Shepard’s, and there is a kind of ‘comrade in arms’ rapport between them which I think illustrates understanding. IMO), and how the fact that they don’t ever really ‘talk’ can be read more as a ‘they don’t need to’ than ‘they don’t want to’. The fact that Garrus brings Shepard in on his Sidonus revenge (about as deeply personal as it gets for Garrus) shows just how highly he regards their relationship (I refuse to believe he couldn’t have gone after Sidonus himself had he chosen to. He was a C-Sec officer – a good one, by all accounts. Plus. he basically waged a one man war against a merc army for days. He can’t hunt down one turian he already has a lead on? He needs Shepard’s help – again: IMO - for more of an emotional support than a tactical one. He just can’t say that and s/he doesn’t need him to.) Whatever way you swing it, by the time the ‘romance’ starts we are already talking about a very close friendship – probably the closest relationship Garrus has ever had. Taking that further is a massive deal in terms of the emotional risk to both of them. It’s easier to focus on the sex side, because that way if things don’t work out they can blame the biology and hopefully try to retain the friendship they already have. They both know the stakes (even if a player is playing Shepard as being into the relationship for the short term, they can’t pretend not to notice the implications for Garrus).
 
Jacob, by contrast, has no history with Shepard: there isn’t even really a reason for Shep to trust him beyond the fact that he happened to survive the base siege long enough to meet up with Shepard and help him/her escape. Even a Shep who is grateful to Cerberus for bringing them back has got to know there is a catch. Jacob admits not fully trusting Cerberus himself, but as long as he wears the uniform Shepard has to know that there is a chance of split loyalty. On top of that, before the romance properly begins (even though FemShep basically glomps on him from the get go), there is a really strong implication that he’s still a little hung up on Miranda (Ok, Ok. So Shep also has Kaiden/Liara to consider, but neither of them are working with her side by side, day by day). Physical attraction for Jacob/Shepard is more instant, more accessible. He is a good looking human specimen. The fact that they are both humans also makes it easy for them to follow human dating convention, and this is EXACTLY what they fall into. “You look good.” “So do you.” “Wanna have a drink sometime?” “Sure.” “Shall we talk about feelings now?” “OK.” “Sex?” “Nah.” “I love you. Sex?” “’K”…. etc. I’m not trying to devalue this: I’m just saying that their relationship follows a pattern which you can see in most romcoms, soap operas or teen romance movies. It’s very ‘conventional’ and something which we are trained to expect in romantic interaction (of course, things seldom work this way in real life). Conventional dictates that certain things are said at certain times and I think that Jacob is following this pattern because it’s what he knows. Shepard joins in. It’s easy for both of them, and I think that this is why it comes off as a bit shallow at times: we know the convention too well. Even the post-SM kiss is a ‘morning after’ convention we all know! They are playing a game with known rules, unlike Shepard and Garrus who are, to a certain extent, flying blind. Because we know this convention, even though you could say that more is actually spoken between them, less is actually said. (Also, the fact that Jacob’s line regarding Garrus if Shep leaves him for a non-ME1 Garrus romance is “I guess you like your men broken.” This suggests to me that Jabob himself lieks the simple, easy, ‘normal’ relationship. Why choose that particular point to dig at Shep with otherwise? Surely there is more he could say about being left for a raptor-like alien than that? )
 
So… I guess what I was trying to say is that you could choose to read the imbalance between the Jacob and Garrus romances as speaking to how the character feels about that particular relationship, rather than simply a misjudgement on BW’s part. But this is all just me rambling. Lol. Apologies for over-use of parenthesis. This has been another Janey wall o' text! ™.

[sapphyreelf]

I think my biggest complaint about ME2 is that Garrus (and by extension Tali) as a returning squadmate, never really gets to show any concern for how Shepard is. Regardless of whether you've initiated the romance or not. He's one of the few people aboard who knows Shepard by more than just reputation. I always hoped that when I went to talk that I'd get something more than the "calibrations" speech.

[Nilfalasiel]

Yay, WoT! 'Tis what we do best around here

janeym27 wrote...

 I refuse to believe he couldn’t have gone after Sidonus himself had he chosen to. He was a C-Sec officer – a good one, by all accounts. Plus. he basically waged a one man war against a merc army for days. He can’t hunt down one turian he already has a lead on? He needs Shepard’s help – again: IMO - for more of an emotional support than a tactical one. He just can’t say that and s/he doesn’t need him to.

While I agree that he needs Shep there for moral support, he couldn't have hunted Sidonis down himself because he simply didn't have the time to do it. When Shep finds him, Sidonis has just betrayed him: he still has his teammates' body bags in the base. He probably literally got back from his failed meeting with Sidonis, watched the 2 survivors die, put the corpses into the body bags and then had to defend himself against the merc assault: he couldn't even dispose of the bodies. And then Shep recruited him after that, so he obviously couldn't just go off after Sidonis without warning anybody. He did find the lead on his own though, but he at least had to tell Shep about it before going anywhere. Obviously though, he preferred having her along, for both moral and logistical (read: bullet) support. 

“You look good.” “So do you.” “Wanna have a drink sometime?” “Sure.” “Shall we talk about feelings now?” “OK.” “Sex?” “Nah.” “I love you. Sex?” “’K”….

Why choose that particular point to dig at Shep with otherwise? Surely there is more he could say about being left for a raptor-like alien than that? )

Doesn't he have a line where he calls Garrus a cuttlebone? He's definitely very much aware of the physical appearance of his competition, lol. Perhaps too much so.
 

So… I guess what I was trying to say is that you could choose to read the imbalance between the Jacob and Garrus romances as speaking to how the character feels about that particular relationship, rather than simply a misjudgement on BW’s part.

It's true that the two romances are hugely different in terms of how Shep approaches them, but I think the main hangup isn't so much the way the Jacob romance is orchestrated (although Shep's sleazy come-ons are certainly part of the ick factor), but the fact that it has more screentime than Garrus' romance. Garrus doesn't get a post-SM romantic moment, he gets very few romance convos as is. Now, it's true that I don't know how many convos Jacob gets, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were more. I mean, you can already hit on him before his LM. And Thane also gets copious amounts of convos, more so than Garrus.

@ sapphyreelf: Well, Garrus does get that line where he's concerned about Shep working with Cerberus. But I'll grant you that that's not quite what we're looking for. I guess his and Tali's justification is that they've known Shep for a while, so they know what she/he can handle and what she/he can't. I also like to think they have more convos than what we're actually shown in the game (this applies to all characters though, ME1 and ME2).

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 30 juin 2010 - 10:48 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Gah, double-post!

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 30 juin 2010 - 10:47 .