29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhatair]

Perhaps unmarked coffins ejected from an airlock?

Or just ejected without coffins =/

Omega is a lawless place, with a high murder rate, it wouldn't surprise me if SoP was just to send the dead off to space.

[silentstephi]

Lemon/Nilf - According to some of the fighting on Taetrus, I think it's safe to say cremation has something to do with Turian burial. They mention it a few days ago over at CNN.

Hyrule - You raise good questions here.
From the few tidbits of info we've seen in Casey's interviews... they were shocked at the reaction Garrus got as a romance. While I do think they got a lot right with how they handled the romance, I hope that their initial feeling of "well, that's weird" has rubbed off and that they put as much effort into fleshing out the Garrus romance as they did with Thane, Jacob and Kaiden.
Damn right I want to see something physical happen between Shep and Garrus.
I think Jacob got a lot of those touches not just because they figured he'd be the go to romance for ME2, but also... he's HUMAN. Not much thought needs to be put into how a human male is going to react to a human female, because, well, we're human. With Thane, he's got the human-like bod, and interesting back story... they gave him some fleshed out scenes (and yea, I'm wicked jealous of the kiss sometimes, but I can deal...) but all in all, his race was something that could be related to more because of their look.

Garrus... is a turian. I don't know how much they've thought of turian culture or biology beyond some of the superficial... but after the reaction his romance has garnered, I hope they're putting more thought into it. I like to think they are. I am so giddy after seeing all this Taetrus stuff come up on CNN. And while I get it's pretty much the ME equivalent of the War on Terror, the tidbits of culture, lifestyle and whatnot we get about turians makes me think yea... they've heard us. We want more about turians.

It makes me hopeful that they'll put that much effort into ME3's culmination on story, for everything.
Yes... this is optimism. Yes, I'm hoping for the best. ;P

Modifié par silentstephi, 30 juin 2010 - 05:57 .

[Cerrydd]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Have there been any inteviews about the reaction to the Garrus romance and Bioware's thoughts about it?

And one of the big ones was Garrus, people just loved Garrus and there was a love of interest in having a romance with Garrus. So we thought, "Let's try this in Mass Effect 2." If people want to have a romance with this bird-like guy with an exoskeleton, then okay.

That's one of those things that was a surprise was just how popular that romance was in Mass Effect 2. In the fan art -- other than Tali and wondering what she has under her mask -- the romance with Garrus is probably the most reproduced moment. I think it says a lot about what really resonated with people.

From: http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-2/. So yes, you really don't have to worry they didn't get the message.

I'm just very happy we got to romance him at all, and I'm very content with it. If Garrus never was a LI, I would never come to these forums.

[Sialater]

ME3 makes me afraid for both Garrus AND Kaidan, since neither were expected to have been popular.

[Collider]

But it seems Bioware found out that they are popular. On the forums, at least. Pretty much every male LI but Jacob has a lot of fans. I think that kind of information could reach Bioware fairly easily.

[silentstephi]

Collider wrote...

But it seems Bioware found out that they are popular. On the forums, at least. Pretty much every male LI but Jacob has a lot of fans. I think that kind of information could reach Bioware fairly easily.

Ah but are the forums just the vocal minority?

Makes me wonder how their datamining is going.
Does the rest of the gaming world, who doesn't subscribe to going on forums to give out their opinions or show support with more than just their wallet, find Jacob or Thane to be the prefered LI?
That mysterious data haunts me sometimes. : /
Then again, Kasumi seemed to have a forum fan nod, what with all her shipping dialogue.  
So I guess it's a 50/50 thing.

[Collider]

silentstephi wrote...

Collider wrote...

But it seems Bioware found out that they are popular. On the forums, at least. Pretty much every male LI but Jacob has a lot of fans. I think that kind of information could reach Bioware fairly easily.

Ah but are the forums just the vocal minority?

That's a good point - but the disparity between Jacob fans and Garrus fans are pretty large.

Makes me wonder how their datamining is going.
Does the rest of the gaming world, who doesn't subscribe to going on forums to give out their opinions or show support with more than just their wallet, find Jacob or Thane to be the prefered LI?
That mysterious data haunts me sometimes. : /
Then again, Kasumi seemed to have a forum fan nod, what with all her shipping dialogue.  
So I guess it's a 50/50 thing.

The most accurate way for Bioware to see how many people are romancing x LI is feedback option in ME2. Since they haven't released that information yet, the forums are somewhat a decent indication of a few things. Though - they are not full picture. Among casuals - or those who don't post on internet forums - I'd say that Miranda is the most popular female LI, and Jacob gets a few more fans.

Jacob's (and Miranda to a lesser extent) more the "default" male LI because he's human and the flirting starts pretty early in the game. I've heard of some people on the forum who romanced Jacob because they didn't know Garrus or Thane were options. The start of Garrus' romance can be somewhat easy to miss (you have to go through the investigate options) and Thane comes later in the game. In contrast, there are at least 4 ways in the second conversation with Jacob to start his romance.

But as a whole, a lot of the people who play Mass Effect 2 also likely played Mass Effect 1. Even though Jacob got the most extra stuff in his romance (a bunch of kissing, shirt off, more conversations, etc), those people are going to already know about Garrus, they probably already like Garrus. And since Jacob's romance isn't that great (and many call him uninteresting), they'll probably either not romance him or dump him for Garrus or Thane.

[Collider]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
le sigh* At least, Tali gets cuddles and a post-SM romance convo.

Not exactly a conversation (Shepard doesn't say anything). Only Jacob gets a conversation.

Yeah, I noticed that about Thane as well. Even without the romance, he
had plenty to say to Shep. Which I guess is fair enough, since he's a
brand new character that you know nothing about, with a somewhat
unorthodox philosophy. I also had the impression that Samara had quite
a few things to say, but that might be a mistaken impression. By
comparison, when you're not romancing Miranda, I think she has a grand
total of 3 convos, including her post-LM one, even though she's also a
new character. But I guess that's compensated by her prominent
storyline role. As for Jack...well, I guess it's justified that she
wouldn't be very talkative unless you're romancing her.

I think Samara has 6 conversations.

As M!Shepard at least, Miranda has 5 conversations if you don't romance her. There's 2 before her loyalty mission, then the loyalty mission talk, then post-LM, and then the one after that (which might be exclusive male Shepards).

I think my biggest complaint about ME2 is that Garrus (and by extension
Tali) as a returning squadmate, never really gets to show any concern
for how Shepard is. Regardless of whether you've initiated the romance
or not. He's one of the few people aboard who knows Shepard by more
than just reputation. I always hoped that when I went to talk that I'd
get something more than the "calibrations" speech.

It's easy to miss, but they both do show concern for how Shepard is. For one thing, Cerberus. They're worried about Shepard and whether she or he is making the right decision. I distinctly remember Garrus saying (paraphrasing) "I'm more worried about you. Are you sure working with Cerberus is the right idea?"

So, I think it's more of a complaint about ME2 then those two characters specifically.
None of the squad mates aside from Jacob and Thane's romances ask Shepard "how they are" exactly. That's more of an ME1 thing.

It's true that the two romances are hugely different in terms of how
Shep approaches them, but I think the main hangup isn't so much the way
the Jacob romance is orchestrated (although Shep's sleazy come-ons are
certainly part of the ick factor), but the fact that it has more
screentime than Garrus' romance. Garrus doesn't get a post-SM romantic
moment, he gets very few romance convos as is. Now, it's true that I
don't know how many convos Jacob gets, but I wouldn't be surprised if
it were more. I mean, you can already hit on him before his LM. And
Thane also gets copious amounts of convos, more so than Garrus.

Jacob gets 7 conversations with his romance, 5 without (6 if you count "spill some drinks one the citadel" as a conversation)

Jacob has 3-4 kisses in his romance.

I haven't done Thane's romance, but he does have at least 5 conversations before the romance starts.

Is anyone worried that they'll continue to be biased in ME3 because
they don’t “get” why Garrus is the female favourite ? Even if the
personal opinion of the majority of the staff thinks the reaction to
Garrus is “weird” they shouldn’t use that as an excuse not to animate
affectionate scenes or give his dialogue proper attention. Have there
been any inteviews about the reaction to the Garrus romance and
Bioware's thoughts about it?

Yes. They were surprised by how popular Garrus was. They also noted the amount of fanart produced for the Garrus "headbump" scene.

I can't remember which of the developers it was now who was saying that
he was impressed by the fact that Garrus' romance scene was such a
popular subject of fanart, that it showed how much power that scene had
for people. I find it hard to believe that they'd completely disregard
that, TBQH.

Casey Hudson

[Cerrydd]

I'm not afraid that they'll continue being 'biased'. They listen to their fans. The fact that Garrus (and Tali) ended up as a LI after all is an indication of that. Kasumi's comments on your relationship is an indication of that. They made a bet on the wrong horse (Jacob), but they already noticed that Garrus is a very popular romance option. Like Casey Hudson said in the interview I quoted earlier, "I think it says a lot about what really resonates with people". It's a learning process for them too.

[Pacifien]

I hate to say this, but it would seem the vocal nature of the Tali fanbase probably worked in their favor when it came to ME2. She gets a considerable amount of dialogue, gets some extremely poignant moments in comparison to Garrus. People mentioned wanting to see Garrus as a romance, but it was more "I'd like to see that" versus "I demand to see that."

[Nilfalasiel]

Collider wrote...
Not exactly a conversation (Shepard doesn't say anything). Only Jacob gets a conversation.

Well, at least she references the romance. That's more than Garrus does.

As M!Shepard at least, Miranda has 5 conversations if you don't romance her. There's 2 before her loyalty mission, then the loyalty mission talk, then post-LM, and then the one after that (which might be exclusive male Shepards).

Five?! But...my last playthrough was a MaleShep, and I only remember 3 convos...ok, no, 4 convos. Two before her LM, one that triggers her LM and one post-LM which gives you the possibility to start the romance. Since I didn't, I don't remember having any convos with her after that.

It's easy to miss, but they both do show concern for how Shepard is. For one thing, Cerberus. They're worried about Shepard and whether she or he is making the right decision. I distinctly remember Garrus saying (paraphrasing) "I'm more worried about you. Are you sure working with Cerberus is the right idea?"

They only ask in relation to Cerberus though. They never ask about personal stuff. I haven't done Thane's romance yet, so I don't know what he asks or doesn't ask, but the only one I've heard that asks Shep how she is on a personal level is Jacob. 

Jacob gets 7 conversations with his romance, 5 without (6 if you count "spill some drinks one the citadel" as a conversation)

Jacob has 3-4 kisses in his romance.

...

*throws a brick at Jacob and goes off to sulk in a corner*

[Collider]

Thane asks how Shepard is (IIRC, not sure). Shepard can only answer with "I'm fine, how are you?" In Jacob's romance, Shepard can say that she

)has survivor guilt

)is burdened by the weight of command

)she's lonely

)she has no baggage

)it's not Jacob's business

[Bhatair]

I was saddened by the lack of interaction with Garrus.

He does have some of the more entertaining mission banter though, but that's probably just my bias talking.

[Twilight_Princess]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Jacob gets 7 conversations with his romance, 5 without (6 if you count "spill some drinks one the citadel" as a conversation)

Jacob has 3-4 kisses in his romance.

...

*throws a brick at Jacob and goes off to sulk in a corner*

*Is laughing* I know how you feel

[silentstephi]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Jacob gets 7 conversations with his romance, 5 without (6 if you count "spill some drinks one the citadel" as a conversation)

Jacob has 3-4 kisses in his romance.

...

*throws a brick at Jacob and goes off to sulk in a corner*

*Is laughing* I know how you feel

Ok that... is like rubbing salt in the wound.
/grumblegrouse joins Nilf in the corner

Modifié par silentstephi, 30 juin 2010 - 06:55 .

[Collider]

Bhatair wrote...

I was saddened by the lack of interaction with Garrus.
He does have some of the more entertaining mission banter though, but that's probably just my bias talking.

No, its' true. His dialog on the missions is one of the least generic.

[Nilfalasiel]

silentstephi wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

*Is laughing* I know how you feel

Ok that... is like rubbing salt in the wound.
/grumblegrouse joins Nilf in the corner

*brings some cardboard and some spray paint to the corner to make some very big "WE DON'T WANT THE PRIZE!" and "JACOB SMELLS" banners*

Collider wrote...

No, its' true. His dialog on the missions is one of the least generic.

I particularly liked the fact that Shepard actually responds to him by name after his elevator comment during Thane's recruitment. She/He doesn't do that for any of the other squaddies (at that moment, at least).

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 30 juin 2010 - 07:05 .

[Sialater]

Collider wrote...

Bhatair wrote...

I was saddened by the lack of interaction with Garrus.
He does have some of the more entertaining mission banter though, but that's probably just my bias talking.

No, its' true. His dialog on the missions is one of the least generic.

Meaning they put more effort into the buddy-cop-movie aspect and less on the "blowing off steam" thing.

[Bhatair]

Sialater wrote...

Collider wrote...

Bhatair wrote...

I was saddened by the lack of interaction with Garrus.
He does have some of the more entertaining mission banter though, but that's probably just my bias talking.

No, its' true. His dialog on the missions is one of the least generic.

Meaning they put more effort into the buddy-cop-movie aspect and less on the "blowing off steam" thing.

Even though I'm more for the buddy cop aspect, that stinks =/

[Collider]

I particularly liked the fact that Shepard actually responds to him by name after his elevator comment during Thane's recruitment. She/He doesn't do that for any of the other squaddies (at that moment, at least).

Yea. Or Mordin's loyalty mission. I always thought that conversation was hilarious. I noticed that while other squad mates usually just say something generic, Garrus a lot more often says something unique and snarky. I love that.

Modifié par Collider, 30 juin 2010 - 07:08 .

[Pacifien]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
*snip*
I particularly liked the fact that Shepard actually responds to him by name after his elevator comment during Thane's recruitment. She/He doesn't do that for any of the other squaddies (at that moment, at least).

Shepard is more likely to respond directly to Garrus during those interactions than for any other squadmate. The elevator comment. The hospital comment. We be bros.

[Kim Shepard]

I didn't realize Jacob had that much extra romance content... 3-4 kisses? Really? I thought Miranda only got one.

And Shepard can say how she's feeling five different ways? There needs to be more of this, not just for Jacob. I liked how Kaidan asked how my Shepards dealt with the deaths from their service history after Virmire. Is it just a romance conversation, or is it available for MaleSheps too? I guess it would be out of character for some squadmates to ask... but I have at least one Shepard who would tell Jacob "It's none of your buisness" and give a different answer to Garrus.

[Bhatair]

Kim Shepard wrote...

I didn't realize Jacob had that much extra romance content... 3-4 kisses? Really? I thought Miranda only got one.

And Shepard can say how she's feeling five different ways? There needs to be more of this, not just for Jacob. I liked how Kaidan asked how my Shepards dealt with the deaths from their service history after Virmire. Is it just a romance conversation, or is it available for MaleSheps too? I guess it would be out of character for some squadmates to ask... but I have at least one Shepard who would tell Jacob "It's none of your buisness" and give a different answer to Garrus.

Male sheps get that convo with Kaidan too.

[ciaweth]

Cerrydd wrote...

I'm not afraid that they'll continue being 'biased'. They listen to their fans. The fact that Garrus (and Tali) ended up as a LI after all is an indication of that. Kasumi's comments on your relationship is an indication of that. They made a bet on the wrong horse (Jacob), but they already noticed that Garrus is a very popular romance option. Like Casey Hudson said in the interview I quoted earlier, "I think it says a lot about what really resonates with people". It's a learning process for them too.

This.  Yes.  Thank you.  I don't like to see us working ourselves up when there's data (interviews, etc.) out there that gives correct information and should assuage a lot of our fears.  For example, that interview with the score composers who said basically, regarding alien sex scenes, "You should have seen what they had planned, and couldn't do!"

The only thing I can't reconcile in my head is why they skimped on Garrus' dialogue, but I don't like to let myself speculate.  I've been on the receiving end of "Just fix it!  It should only take a couple lines of code!" hollering enough to give developers some leeway and not assume that it's a simple SET GARRUS = MOAR.TALKATIVE process.

So now BioWare will take all their sources of data--in-game data, forum chatter, quantity (and quality?) of fansites/fan art/fan videos/fan fic/general man hours spent by fans on a character--and crunch it.  It is my hope that the data they gather supports spending more resources on Garrus, because I'd like to see more backstory and more dialogue there.  But I'm not going to get my pantaloons in a twist before I see what they do.  I don't have that kind of stray energy to waste.

[silentstephi]

ciaweth wrote...

Cerrydd wrote...

I'm not afraid that they'll continue being 'biased'. They listen to their fans. The fact that Garrus (and Tali) ended up as a LI after all is an indication of that. Kasumi's comments on your relationship is an indication of that. They made a bet on the wrong horse (Jacob), but they already noticed that Garrus is a very popular romance option. Like Casey Hudson said in the interview I quoted earlier, "I think it says a lot about what really resonates with people". It's a learning process for them too.

This.  Yes.  Thank you.  I don't like to see us working ourselves up when there's data (interviews, etc.) out there that gives correct information and should assuage a lot of our fears.  For example, that interview with the score composers who said basically, regarding alien sex scenes, "You should have seen what they had planned, and couldn't do!"

The only thing I can't reconcile in my head is why they skimped on Garrus' dialogue, but I don't like to let myself speculate.  I've been on the receiving end of "Just fix it!  It should only take a couple lines of code!" hollering enough to give developers some leeway and not assume that it's a simple SET GARRUS = MOAR.TALKATIVE process.

So now BioWare will take all their sources of data--in-game data, forum chatter, quantity (and quality?) of fansites/fan art/fan videos/fan fic/general man hours spent by fans on a character--and crunch it.  It is my hope that the data they gather supports spending more resources on Garrus, because I'd like to see more backstory and more dialogue there.  But I'm not going to get my pantaloons in a twist before I see what they do.  I don't have that kind of stray energy to waste.

It's ok, I have enough energy for the two of us. /ZOMGZORZ!
*I keed, I keed*
I just want more stuff to gnaw on.  This is why I hate coming into things mid trilogy.  Usually, if I hear something's good, I wait until the whole damn thing is out.  This way... I can consume it all in one lovely batch.  This prolonging of the consumption is new for me.  Hell, it's why I'm trying to distract myself with a ton of stuff.
Because I can't wait for more new stuff. 
Admittedly... I'm probably not going to get the Leliana DLC when it comes out.  Unless I hear it to be AMAZING.  In which case... I'll get it, just so I can BEG/PLEAD/CRY at BW to make them do that for Garrus... or Liara.  Whoever really.
-.-