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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#8326
Kim Shepard

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And catch up post #2!

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Garrus sqaud: Nalah's Butler's husband, batarian tech expert, salarian former STG demo expert, Sidonis, some "former mercs who wanted to atone," and some former C-Sec operatives (unless he meant himself?) Huh, you don't suppose he knew some other C-Sec malcontents that he specifically contacted do you? That would be interesting. He also uses the phrase "my men" more than once so I think he really did mean his team was all male. I can think of a few places in game where Bioware actually goes out of its way to say things like "my troops" if there are females involved. If I had to guess, I'd say his team was mostly turians and humans. Seriously doubt any krogan or more batarians. Possibly more salarians, however.

It's an interesting thought, that Garrus might have brought along some other guys from C-Sec who felt the same way as him - wanted to make a difference, but the rules kept getting in the way. It also supports the theory that he wasn't just wandering around the galaxy, and that being a vigilante was something he planned to do whether he knew he would end up on Omega or not. I like that idea.

I agree that he probably didn't have too many batarians on the team. Most of them don't seem like the type who would have anything against merc groups (unless it's an enemy of their own merc group). Didn't Garrus sound a little surprised about it himself? Something like "a batarian, if you can believe that"?

As for extra content for LIs in ME3. I don't want anything really sentimental like that "go on a date stuff." I think that would be a bit much. I wouldn't mind them being permanently in your quarters, however. Definitely at least the ability to call them up. I"d also like their greeting to be something slightly different. Other than that they can behave exactly the same as a non LI with maybe just a few tweaks to dialog here and there. I also like the idea of them yelling something unique if Shepard is on the ropes or falls in combat. I think that would be interesting. And of course, as we have already all said numerous times, more squaddies banter and comments from NPCs that involve the relationship. Dancing would be fun but something I would never do. My Shep is too much of a hard-ass for that. She never gets drunk either, at least not off the ship. But I would probably do it one or twice for the lulz and other people would like it so by all means stick it in.

A few of the things mentioned here wouldn't work for my MainShep either, like a night out drinking with the crew, but it would work for some of my other Shepards. As long as they didn't have a mission any time soon, MaleShep would take his team out for one last party in the calm before the Reaper storm. I mostly think the dancing is needed because it was in ME1. I have no idea why they took it out of ME2.

#8327
Kim Shepard

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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Wow, I was just looking through RiotLaFontaine's screencaps, and there was one of Garrus from Jacob's loyalty mission (I think?) where the lighting reflected in his eyes just so, and I don't often say this about video game graphics, but it was breathtaking. The majority of players may not find Garrus physically attractive, but I daresay with (nearly) complete objectivity that he has the most lovely eyes of anyone in the entire game.

[/gushing]

Turians do have pretty eyes. :) They almost look like they're glowing. Garrus' eyes, at least in ME2, seem to be made up of a few different colors. I always thought they were blue, but now they look like a mix between blue, gray, green, and gold.

#8328
Guest_Raga_*

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I actually think he did do a kind of "walkabout" thing for a little while before he ended up on Omega. I think he tried Spectre/C-Sec and got really pissed off after Shep's death so he said "screw this" and then went off to try and make a difference the same way she did. I don't know if he immediately went to Omega or if he just ended up there. When he says that half the goods he seized came from Jaroth's team on Omega it seems to imply he already had a sore spot for the place to begin with. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a strong candidate as a location right off the bat. Still Garrus isn't really a "plan things in advance" kinda guy. He tends to leap on opportunities as he just ups and quits C-Sec on the off-chance that Shep will bring him along. So I guess I can't see him planning out some elaborate vigilante strategy before he got to Omega. I think he got there and the rest just kinda happened. Wouldn't surprise me if he called up some old contacts though to get the idea going once it did occur to him.

#8329
Kim Shepard

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Yeah, he definitely tried Spectres/C-Sec for a while. I meant that he might have gone straight to being a vigilante after that wasn't working out for him, with nothing in between. It's nice to think that he brought a few guys who agreed with him. Apparently, there were quite a few people who were angry about the way the Alliance/Council reacted to Shepard's death. Jacob was one of them, and I think it could have been one of the reasons (if not the only reason) why Garrus decided to be a vigilante in the first place.

#8330
ThatDancingTurian

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I disagree with the assessment that Garrus isn't a 'plan things in advance' guy. I don't think he can't be, at least. I personally never saw him as someone who goes wherever the wind may take him, I think he just happens to be very good at thinking on his feet, and in certain tense situations he relies on that as an asset. He's an improvisational mastermind, look at how he handled being taken on by the three merc groups all on his own. But I think he's the type of person who can also come up with strategies, prepare, and weigh options.

#8331
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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I disagree with the assessment that Garrus isn't a 'plan things in advance' guy. I don't think he can't be, at least. I personally never saw him as someone who goes wherever the wind may take him, I think he just happens to be very good at thinking on his feet, and in certain tense situations he relies on that as an asset. He's an improvisational mastermind, look at how he handled being taken on by the three merc groups all on his own. But I think he's the type of person who can also come up with strategies, prepare, and weigh options.


Oh I think he can plan, I just don't think he does it much.  And by "plan" I don't mean that he can't form battle field strategies because he's obviously brilliant at that.  I just don't think Garrus is the sort who sits around and thinks "what will I be doing a year form now" or "what are my long term goals?"  He is not a "stick it out" sort of person.  If something is not working right, he has a tendency to drop it and move on to something else.  If you don't recruit him before Fist, he quits C-Sec and goes and stands in front of the elevator to the docks on the chance that Shepard might bring him along.  I mean, what's he gonna do if Shep doesn't bring him?  He won't go back to C-Sec and I doubt he has some other immediate plan.  That's pretty impulsive.  Improvisation is an example of not planning.  He is good at improvising, but that doesn't mean he plans.  He's also impulsive and some of his ideas come back to bite him in the ass.  When he actually settles on something like leading a team on Omega, then he starts planning and focusing on something with single-minded intensity.  Remember Dr. Michel's letter?  But when he doesn't have some Crusade, it's like he has no idea what to do with himself.  If he can't attack something completely and passionately and if he feels things are getting in his way, he has a tendency to drop it (like at C-Sec) and search for something, anything that might be better.  He quit because he thought Shepard might be that something.  But he doesn't go back even if Shepard rejects him and he quits again after Shepard dies.  I don't think he woke up one morning and thought "Oh, I know!  I'll go form a vigilante team on Omega!"  I think he finally decided "this sucks and I have to find something else.  Something, anything has got to be better than this."  So he acts very decisively and is great at spotting opportunities and once he finds something he gets behind it fully, but I still don't think he "plans."  It's more like he looks and goes with what he finds but until he finds something I don't think he has a clear agenda.  Unless you want to consider "looking for something" as a plan unto itself which I guess you could.  It would just be a very vague and open plan.

#8332
Twilight_Princess

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Different Garrus dialogue

Ok , if you manage not to jump Garrus's bones right after he tells you about that turian scout during the reach and flexibility conversation (difficult I know Posted Image) you can come back later and hear a different bit of looping dialogue.  This is cool because it makes it look like Shepard walked away but thought about  their previous conversation AND the reply seems to fit better since Garrus is telling shepard he still hasn't figured out how to get rid of his stress. He's almost asking shepard for advice and she's like "well If you haven't figured it out I could help you Posted Image"

#8333
Kim Shepard

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He is great with strategy. (And my Shepards were very proud of him on Omega. :D) Sometimes he doesn't seem to think things through - not because he can't, but because he'll act on instinct. It normally works out for him though. In most of those cases, like with Dr. Michel and Saleon when he escaped from the Citadel, he probably thinks it's better to act now if completely thinking things through will just make him lose his chance. I have a lot of Shepards who would agree, but the Paragon choices can disagree with that "act now, worry about the damage later" attitude.

#8334
Guest_Raga_*

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Yea, another wall of text, but it's all well and good.  Garrus thread has a reputation to uphold.

Right, you can also argue that since he knows he is a good improviser that his official plan is: "I'll improvise." And as you say, that mostly works out for him. I am glad he does that most of the time. I mean going on looking for evidence for Saren was the right call to make. I also think that impulse can get him in trouble, however. I mean that whole "clean up Omega" plan is really cool and all but it's also pretty unrealistic. He did an amazingly good job, but honestly, I think there was always a very high chance that it would have ended the way it did. Eventually somebody is gonna make a mistake, somebody is gonna be gotten to (Sidonis), and your enemies will rally. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try at all, it just means that you should know when to call it quits and have a backup plan as well. Garrus is kinda an all or nothing kind of guy. I mean, I'm sure he was doing good things at C-Sec. I'm sure he caught lots of bad guys and helped lots of people, but that wasn't enough for him. The few that got away like Saleon were to him like a scratch on the Mona Lisa. I think Shep even says to him "well, you can't catch him them all" and he says "I know, but, seeing him get away like that..." So I guess what I mean is that without a plan to kinda reign his passion and exuberance in, he can sometimes set some REALLY unrealistic and open-ended goals and then he beats himself all up when he inevitably doesn't meet them. He's like Drizzt Do'Urden in that respect. He has these ridiculously high standards for himself that no living person can possibly hope to achieve. Shepard in some ways doesn't help because he sees her do incredible things and thinks "a person really can do this" but Shepard is really exceptional and lucky and so on. It doesn't follow that just because she can do it that Garrus can as well. Anyway, I think if he just set some finite, realistic goals for himself instead of stuff as open-ended as "cleaning up Omega" it would do him a world of good. He can still improvise and look for opportunities, but a good contingency plan doesn't hurt either.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 11 août 2010 - 07:36 .


#8335
Arhka

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At that point Raga, it seems it's more of the turian ingrained into him, at least the making sure stuff is done and all or nothing part. His contingency plan for now it seems is Shepard.

Modifié par Arhka, 11 août 2010 - 07:39 .


#8336
Kim Shepard

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I agree with that wall of text. :) The "all or nothing" comparison works well for Garrus.

I actually have a few Shepards who think Garrus' plan to "clean up Omega" was unrealistic, but they're impressed with his skills to make it go as well as it did, if nothing else. xD Maybe he should have a good, long talk with Shepard #7. Some people try to have a Plan B if something goes wrong. Shepard #7 makes sure he has a Plan D because something can always go wrong. (Hey, I think there's something on TV Tropes about that...)

#8337
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Hah, there's something on TVTropes for everything. Every time I go there I end up wasting like two or three hours trying to categorize various characters. And I think sticking with Shep is his best option. He has done his best work while he is with Shepard and while I can understand being right-hand man and never getting to do things on your own can be rough, I think there are much worse places he can be than "right hand-man and possible partner of the biggest badass in the galaxy." That's not exactly shabby or anything.

And Arkha, I have often said that Garrus is actually a much better turian than he thinks. He's just a really lousy C-Sec turian.

@Hyrule
I have seen that bit of text before but never thought of that specific interpretation of it.  I really like it as my Sheps are all Sheps who only became interested in Garrus in ME2 so for them to just jump him like that makes no sense.  I think I will use your explanation the next time I play.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 11 août 2010 - 08:10 .


#8338
Cerrydd

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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Turians don't have funny bumps. They also don't dance.


Funny bumps? FUNNY BUMPS?! What the heck BW, this is pure gold! Why did you have to leave this out?
'Funny bumps' is my favourite way to refer to boobs from now on.

#8339
Kim Shepard

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Yeah, I end up reading these tropes for hours too. I didn't find the right one yet... but I did find one for Garrus. Vigilante Man. Just scroll down and you'll find Cowboy Cops who turn in their badges to go after the bad guy. xD

#8340
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 That one is spot on.  I always thought this one matched Garrus as well.

Clueless Chick Magnet.

#8341
ThatDancingTurian

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To me the perfect TVTropes description of Garrus in ME2 is the Iron Woobie who Took A Level In Badass.

#8342
Guest_Raga_*

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Those also work. It's hard to find a single trope and no other for a good character. The best  characters kind of fit into multiple categories, which is a good thing. It means they aren't canned.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 11 août 2010 - 08:38 .


#8343
Kim Shepard

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Took A Level In Badass, definitely. That's Shepard's influence taking effect. Garrus does say he "learned from the best", at least to Renegade Shepard.

(I found it. After almost dying a few times, Shepard #7 has become Crazy Prepared.)

#8344
Twilight_Princess

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Hah, there's something on TVTropes for everything. Every time I go there I end up wasting like two or three hours trying to categorize various characters. And I think sticking with Shep is his best option. He has done his best work while he is with Shepard and while I can understand being right-hand man and never getting to do things on your own can be rough, I think there are much worse places he can be than "right hand-man and possible partner of the biggest badass in the galaxy." That's not exactly shabby or anything.

And Arkha, I have often said that Garrus is actually a much better turian than he thinks. He's just a really lousy C-Sec turian.

@Hyrule
I have seen that bit of text before but never thought of that specific interpretation of it.  I really like it as my Sheps are all Sheps who only became interested in Garrus in ME2 so for them to just jump him like that makes no sense.  I think I will use your explanation the next time I play.


I did good? ...eeeeeeeeee! Posted Image I'm also will go this route next time (I'm replaying my canon because I want to redo certain moments) because like you I felt that my Shepard wouldn't have been that impulsive. I only selected it at that moment because I had no idea you could bring it up later. Now that I know I can, I'm going with my interpretation for several reasons;

1. Again like you said, my Shepard also only fancied Garrus in ME2. My Shepard saw Garrus as a student in ME1 , when she meets him again it is apparent to her that he is a new man and can now see him as an equal. So the attraction is new and it makes more sense for her to come back later instead of saying she likes him that quickly.
 

2. I felt it made more sense for her to say her line after Garrus says he still hasn't figured out how to prepare for the mission. As opposed to her saying it right after he brings up his story.  The reason is that she sounds like she's actually responding to what Garrus is saying rather than just hitting on him;.

Conversation A

Garrus: I didn't get on with this scout so we fought eachother to get rid of stress, we ended up having sex as well.
Shepard: Maybe I can help you get rid of that stress.

Conversation B

Garrus: I still haven't figured out how to get rid of my stress
Shepard: Maybe I can help you get rid of that stress.

I just prefer Conversation B , my hitting on him feels more welcome because he's having some trouble Posted Image

3. You get a little bit more of the ever-so-rare Garrus dialogue this way, so that's always a wonderful bonus.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 11 août 2010 - 09:02 .


#8345
ThatDancingTurian

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Huh, it never occurred to me to stop talking to Garrus before I'd probed him about every little thing... ;)

Also, darnit! Now I'm stuck in the vortex of TVTropes! D8 ... But for the lulz: Headbutt Of Love.

#8346
Nilfalasiel

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Concerning the "my men" line, I used to think Garrus was just using it in the sense of "my team". But when he uses the "ten good men lie in unmarked graves" line, it is pretty clear that they were all male. Otherwise, he would've said "ten good people". So yeah, there probably weren't any asari on his squad. Or any females of any other race.

And yeah, I also don't see Garrus as the "plan in advance" type of guy. Of course, when it's required on the battlefield, he's obviously very good at it, but the rest of the time, he seems to mostly act first and think later. And that's what my MainShep likes about him, because it's so completely different to how she functions. It can be both irritating and fascinating.

About that different "how to prepare for the mission" convo, I had that with my KaidanShep yesterday. I didn't comment at all on his story about the recon scout, and then I tried talking to him later, and he said that. So I had to tell him I actually wanted to spar. Funny, but also sad to have to sit there going "don't pick 'Not what I meant', don't pick it!" Had to take my Shep back up to her cabin to look at Kaidan's pic after that, as a reminder of my goal Posted Image

Hah, the Groundskeeper. I can understand why they cut his dialogue storyline-wise, because it is pretty much irrelevant. But it's a shame that they deprived us of the "funny bumps" line, as well as of the fact that turian ladies don't have them. Still, we found out anyway, so it's all good Posted Image

#8347
ThatDancingTurian

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Nilfalasiel wrote...

But when he uses the "ten good men lie in unmarked graves" line, it is pretty clear that they were all male.

... Good point. I don't know how I forgot that. Okay, I concede, they were dudes, ::sheepish grin::

#8348
Kim Shepard

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Headbutt Of Love. xD FemShep and Garrus are even mentioned there, and also for Crowning Moment Of Heartwarming. That's just awesome.

#8349
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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

But when he uses the "ten good men lie in unmarked graves" line, it is pretty clear that they were all male.

... Good point. I don't know how I forgot that. Okay, I concede, they were dudes, ::sheepish grin::


Also makes you wonder what became of his teams' bodies.  I mean they were just all lying about his HQ and it's not like Shep or anybody had time to tend to them.  Man, that REALLY sucks.

#8350
lovgreno

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Cerrydd wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Turians don't have funny bumps. They also don't dance.


Funny bumps? FUNNY BUMPS?! What the heck BW, this is pure gold! Why did you have to leave this out?
'Funny bumps' is my favourite way to refer to boobs from now on.

From now on I am certain that turians refer to human boobs as "funny bumps".