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[Twilight_Princess]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

 My point with that is that an initial "courtship" process with Garrus would have been unbelievably weird.  Asking Garrus out to dinner would have been way weirder than soliciting him for sex.  A large part of that awkward built up crap of "courtship" is to ascertain if the other person is compatible and good material for a long term relationship.  But with Shepard and Garrus they already know each other through and through.  They know they are compatible.  There's no need for some long weird testing the waters phase that would just be awkward and feature them repeating a bunch of stuff they probably already know.  To me the abrupt confrontation makes more sense.  It's Shep saying, "hey look, we could work well together.  You know that.  Wanna try it?"  And Garrus responds in kind.  All of his nervousness has nothing to do with him thinking Shep isn't a good personality match for him.  He's more concerned about derailing the mission and physical compatibility.  The morals and personality thing never comes up because he knows it is a understood point.  "You're about the only friend I've got left in this screwed up galaxy."  "I don't want something closer to home.  I want you.  I want someone I can trust."  The whole romance is just oozing with that.  Given all that, I think an abrupt taking it the next level thing makes the most since for them.

 
It also reflected how Garrus and Shepard ALREADY speak to each other. They have comical banter all the time, so it made sense for Shepard to show her interest by playing around with his words for a bit of comical effect. I never felt that Shepard was acting OOC with Garrus during the reach and flexibility part, that's what I like about it. Garrus always seemed to one up Shepard in their previous conversations "Women like scars" "If I wanted to take your shields down I would have" so this is one of the rare times Shepard has rendered Garrus a bit speechless...although it doesn't last that long . 

The humour is still there during the rest of the romance but you see the pretence start to drop once the interest has been established by both of them. To call this a fling is unfair , its appears to start out that way ,sure, but you can tell they both want something different as it progresses. Now compare this to the  Jacob romance, now THAT it is the most OOC interaction I have ever seen. With Garrus, being forward and flirty is allowed because they already have history and already like and know each other as best friends. With Jacob I can only view that as a fling at least on Shepard's part, I see no interest for anything more than sex from shepard , the getting to know you is not there, the flirting is very forced, she also disrespects Jacob A LOT during it "Make me" that's not "sexy" it's damn rude. Nothing makes me think Jacob likes this type of behaviour from her either, "I l hate being called Mr Taylor but love how you still call me that after I tell you not to". If anything should get the "fling" label its that romance not Garrus's.

[kglaser]

Pedpickle wrote...

I shall quote someone from his page.
"Hypothetical question: Should we ever meet in life and decide to have a
one night stand, would you talk like Garrus to me? Because that would
be awesome."

OK, that's creepy.

[Nilfalasiel]

Speaking of Jacob, does anybody else get a huge Heart of Darkness vibe from his LM? About the only difference would be that he doesn't enslave natives. Every time I do it, the similarities always stand out.

It also seems that his romance activates before his LM. Because I just tried talking to him post-LM, and he gives me his "I'm not big on forcing these things" line that he gives when he's out of convo in response to "Just want to talk". And I definitely didn't flirt with him before. Nothing important, but it still seems strange.

Very nice analysis there, Raga. It makes sense. I also think that there was no other way for Shep to unequivocally show Garrus that she was interested. Anything else he would either have taken as a joke or not registered at all. Not because he's stupid, but because it's so completely unexpected. I also don't think either one of them had a consciously established attraction to the other before ME2. But I do think that the loss of Shepard (for Garrus) and the subsequent almost loss of Garrus (for Shepard) did a lot to "soften them up", so to speak. Kind of like "you don't know what you've got till it's gone": it makes them more receptive to each other.

And yes, that FB comment is all kinds of creepy...

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 11 août 2010 - 09:02 .

[Hazzel42]

Ok have to play devil's advocate here. Say you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1 (I know, I know - totally inconceivable, but possible) - then doesn't the whole Garrus romance seems super abrupt and kind of strange?

[Nilfalasiel]

Ah yes, "not recruiting Garrus in ME1."

We have dismissed that claim.



I guess it would seem more abrupt in that case. But didn't someone say that you *couldn't* romance him at all if you hadn't recruited him in ME1? I remember hearing something to that effect, but it was a while ago. I think only one person in this thread has ever attempted to not recruit Garrus in ME1.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 11 août 2010 - 09:10 .

[ciaweth]

kglaser wrote...

Pedpickle wrote...

I shall quote someone from his page.
"Hypothetical question: Should we ever meet in life and decide to have a
one night stand, would you talk like Garrus to me? Because that would
be awesome."

OK, that's creepy.

This kind of crap is why I would never want to be famous.  Way to disrespect his wife.

[Hazzel42]

That Facebook quote totally creeps me out! If I were BK I'd be checking all my locks and windows at least twice!

[kglaser]

I hope BK doesn't start thinking we're all creepy like that

[kglaser]

You're probably right Raga...still, I almost want to run over there and defend us. LOL

[Hazzel42]

I sure hope most of his fans are able to tell the difference between a very cool character he does the voice acting for and the man himself. It's just few that give fangirls a bad rep :-)

[ciaweth]

Facebook pages have a ban/block feature--if he were really creeped out, he could just boot that person and they wouldn't be able to access the page again.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I think people who say Garrus' romance is abrupt just don't understand the subtlety. The relationship is dripping with subtext, we don't need to hear FemShep say 'I've always had a special place in my heart for you, Garrus!' or 'You're important to me, Garrus!' ... The bond between them is evident from the moment he takes off that helmet, long before any romantic options are presented.

The romance is built on a rock-solid foundation that has been strengthening since the first game; judging it only by the lines in the romance is like starting a movie in the middle. We're not seeing the budding of a relationship as we do with every other LI (except for Tali), we're seeing a preexisting relationship bloom into a new and exciting stage. <3

Honestly, the only reason Tali's isn't as 'abrupt' is that they practically retconned her ME1 appearance by declaring she was secretly in love with him the whole time. That kind of thing just wouldn't work for Garrus, though.

[kglaser]

Well-said, Aris. I believe their romance is actually one of the more special ones in the MEverse.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Well, I got bored again.

[ThatDancingTurian]

:: Is that a glitch in Garrus' animation? He looks like he's got crazy eyes. o_o



I need to get the alternate appearance pack thing. Even though I don't like the added headgear they put in... Garrus' is admittedly the least horrible, but still! He's already got a scouter covering one side of his face, did he need a headset on the other? Nobody else uses one of those silly wrap-around microphones, and their comms still work fine.

[Arhka]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...


:: Is that a glitch in Garrus' animation? He looks like he's got crazy eyes. o_o

I need to get the alternate appearance pack thing. Even though I don't like the added headgear they put in... Garrus' is admittedly the least horrible, but still! He's already got a scouter covering one side of his face, did he need a headset on the other? Nobody else uses one of those silly wrap-around microphones, and their comms still work fine.

It looks cool if you use it for the Suicide Mission and make him a team leader in the first one, match colors on Shepard and Tali as the tech. Color matching = awesome.

[Titanium Man]

I also agree that the Garrus romance wasn't rushed. You got to know each other through your adventures. Of course there's natural room to take things further.

[Sialater]

Hazzel42 wrote...

Ok have to play devil's advocate here. Say you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1 (I know, I know - totally inconceivable, but possible) - then doesn't the whole Garrus romance seems super abrupt and kind of strange?

A Kaidanite didn't recruit him in ME1 and couldn't get the romance started.  The default game assumes recruitment.

[jillyfae]

Sialater wrote...

Hazzel42 wrote...

Ok have to play devil's advocate here. Say you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1 (I know, I know - totally inconceivable, but possible) - then doesn't the whole Garrus romance seems super abrupt and kind of strange?

A Kaidanite didn't recruit him in ME1 and couldn't get the romance started.  The default game assumes recruitment.

That was me.   (I did it once, to get extra Wrex dialogue in the after-mission briefings.  It was painful.  The run I'm doing w/o Wrex is also very sad and lonely.)

Anyways...  if you don't recruit him, you can't reminisce about Ilos, since he wasn't there, and there are no additional response options after the reach/flexibility story.  No romance. 

eta:  And there are also some very slight differences in the recruitment dialogues, but most of those are on Youtube, I think.

Modifié par jillyfae, 12 août 2010 - 02:19 .

[Hazzel42]

jillyfae wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Hazzel42 wrote...

Ok have to play devil's advocate here. Say you didn't recruit Garrus in ME1 (I know, I know - totally inconceivable, but possible) - then doesn't the whole Garrus romance seems super abrupt and kind of strange?

A Kaidanite didn't recruit him in ME1 and couldn't get the romance started.  The default game assumes recruitment.

That was me.   (I did it once, to get extra Wrex dialogue in the after-mission briefings.  It was painful.  The run I'm doing w/o Wrex is also very sad and lonely.)

Anyways...  if you don't recruit him, you can't reminisce about Ilos, since he wasn't there, and there are no additional response options after the reach/flexibility story.  No romance. 

eta:  And there are also some very slight differences in the recruitment dialogues, but most of those are on Youtube, I think.

Thanks!  That makes total sense. I never played through without recruiting them both - I just can't leave them behind.  Wonder if they will make Garrus romanceable in ME3 if you only recruited him in ME2 and couldn't romance him there.

[Kim Shepard]

I like the fact that Garrus can't be romanced if he wasn't recruited in ME1. It really says a lot about his character, and it's also good to know that default Shepard (who killed off Wrex and basically anyone who could be killed) recruited him.

My replay of Noveria is not going as I'd hoped. D: Something really strange happened - when the time came for each squadmate to give their opinions about the rachni queen, Tali was Paragon and Garrus was Renegade. I thought it had worked out the way I wanted, and that Tali would convince MaleShep not to kill the queen after he says he's going to. For some reason, it was Garrus who spoke up. I think I'll have to replay it again and take Wrex... Garrus' comment was that Shepard shouldn't kill the queen without talking with the Council. No matter how much Liara annoyed me with her trap romance in my last playthrough, what she said to him in combination with the rachni queen's line worked. It would have really made him stop and reconsider. What Garrus said wouldn't have that same effect. He would have killed the rachni queen, and I don't want him sparing her life to change. Time to look for youtube videos of their comments now...

Modifié par Kim Shepard, 12 août 2010 - 05:30 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Okay, I know they probably took out the romance for Garrus because he references things like her being his only friend, him being someone she can trust, etc... But to me it's also solid proof that the relationship means more than it sounds like it does at first glance. If all Garrus and Shepard needed was to 'blow off steam', they'd do it regardless. What they have is clearly not a cheap fling, even if they talk about it like it is at first.