Didn't you also say you can't kill Wrex on Virmire if you don't recruit Garrus?
Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion
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Chimervera
, juin 26 2010 03:45
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#8427
Posté 12 août 2010 - 02:38
ciaweth
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Honestly, I probably would've had my Shepard hop in the sack with Garrus in ME1, but it would have been a totally different relationship. I like it the way it is now, where you have to wait for him to catch up with Shepard a bit.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Are you guys pleased that we had to wait until ME2 to romance Garrus? In hindsight, would you want there to be a romance in ME1 for him?
#8428
Posté 12 août 2010 - 02:38
Brian619
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jillyfae wrote...
Why thank you. Me loves cookies. *nom nom*
And, except for getting a little extra Wrex dialogue? Totally not worth it. So, none of you should try it. *laughs*
Extra line from Wrex if we didn't pick up Garrus? mind telling me what did he say?
Modifié par Brian619, 12 août 2010 - 02:39 .
#8429
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 12 août 2010 - 02:40
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Sialater wrote...
I think we all need to thank Jillyfae for taking one on the chin for us and sacrificing a game with no Garrus just for science.
Yes, thanks Jilly. You are a trooper.
#8430
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 12 août 2010 - 02:42
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ciaweth wrote...
Honestly, I probably would've had my Shepard hop in the sack with Garrus in ME1, but it would have been a totally different relationship. I like it the way it is now, where you have to wait for him to catch up with Shepard a bit.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Are you guys pleased that we had to wait until ME2 to romance Garrus? In hindsight, would you want there to be a romance in ME1 for him?
I probably would have tried it too. I did have a latent interest in turians back then that I never actively thought about because I thought I was in some weird fetish minority. And back then I usually did all the romances for science anyway so I'd have tried it. I'm less inclined to do romances for science now. Probably because there are so many. I wouldn't have hated the option, but in hindsight I am glad it worked out the way it did.
#8431
Posté 12 août 2010 - 02:49
jillyfae
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You can't kill Wrex if you haven't recruited Garrus AND Liara yet. (IE, go to Virmire before Therum. Which I did, cause loopy Liara is hysterical.)
And, I don't remember specific Wrex lines, as that playthrough was well over a year ago. I just vaguely recall him talking more after briefings. *shrugs*
And, I don't remember specific Wrex lines, as that playthrough was well over a year ago. I just vaguely recall him talking more after briefings. *shrugs*
#8432
Posté 12 août 2010 - 03:02
Twilight_Princess
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Someone posted a question in Happy Hour in Clan V, that I thought I would repost. Are you guys pleased that we had to wait until ME2 to romance Garrus? In hindsight, would you want there to be a romance in ME1 for him?
And here's my answer: I agree with what others have said about Garrus' romance needing to wait until ME2. For one so he could grow and be more of Shep's emotional equal. That was part of Liara's problem, and this is also the problem that some women have with Alistair. They are just too young (in emotional age anyway) for the main character. Now I can deal with that (I love Alistair for one) but for someone as awesome as Garrus I had rather not have to babysit him. Second, I already explained how I don't like the structure of the ME1 romances in general. (I thought they felt rushed and were more a product of "oh screw it all, we're probably gonna die anyway" than any kind of deep understanding or emotion.) And third that means having the romance in ME2 creates a very natural culmination based on friendship.
Also, I admit that this is a complete hindsight answer. If I had had the option back in ME1 days, I would have been all over it, but now that we did have to wait, I am glad it worked out this way.
And yes, the repetition is partially because I have an unapologetic love of hearing myself talk (or watching myself type as it were) but it's also in the interest of thread viability. If we ever get an interesting Garrus conversation going elsewhere, I like to move it here. That's the point of the thread after all.
I agree with this completely. Garrus felt like more of a man in ME2 despite it only being a two year difference between the games. Returning to ME1 to start new Shepards is always amusing to me as it’s amazing how differently I perceive Garrus every time I play it again. I just can't see him in a romantic light at that stage because of the way he used to behave; he seems so young and naive! He also had a bit of a pompous attitude from what I gathered from his elevator conversations, "Turians would do this etc" glad that got toned down too. The wait was worth it it IMO, Garrus is no longer a student but an equal to Shepard and thus became more suitable as an LI, the time apart and their reunion strengthened the trust and fondness that they have for one another and this romance is unique compared to all the other male romances as there is history between them, it stands out because of this not just because Garrus is the most exotic romance option of the lot.
#8433
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:01
Vequi
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Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Dancing turian is gaining a following. Total win.
This is so awesome, I think I'm in love
#8434
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:05
Hazzel42
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Hyrule_Gal wrote...
I agree with this completely. Garrus felt like more of a man in ME2 despite it only being a two year difference between the games. Returning to ME1 to start new Shepards is always amusing to me as it’s amazing how differently I perceive Garrus every time I play it again. I just can't see him in a romantic light at that stage because of the way he used to behave; he seems so young and naive! He also had a bit of a pompous attitude from what I gathered from his elevator conversations, "Turians would do this etc" glad that got toned down too. The wait was worth it it IMO, Garrus is no longer a student but an equal to Shepard and thus became more suitable as an LI, the time apart and their reunion strengthened the trust and fondness that they have for one another and this romance is unique compared to all the other male romances as there is history between them, it stands out because of this not just because Garrus is the most exotic romance option of the lot.
Exactly! It's like Garrus is still wet behind the ears in ME1 - fresh from Palaven and hasn't come to grasp the complexities of the big universe. He's all brash opinions. After his dark experiences of losing Shepard and leading the team on Omega he is way more mature. Perhaps a bit world weary but more likely to think things through for himself and come to his own conclusions on things than just sticking with what he's been taught in the past.
#8435
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:28
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I think a very natural end for Garrus' arc is that in ME3 we finally won't be able to sway him. I want a point where he says "this is what I'm gonna do Shepard" and we just have to go along. Even better would be some sequence in which we finally get to ask Garrus for advice or he gets to pull our tail out of the fire for once. I would love that. It would be a great end to his story.
#8436
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:33
Sialater
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I think a very natural end for Garrus' arc is that in ME3 we finally won't be able to sway him. I want a point where he says "this is what I'm gonna do Shepard" and we just have to go along. Even better would be some sequence in which we finally get to ask Garrus for advice or he gets to pull our tail out of the fire for once. I would love that. It would be a great end to his story.
Sounds a great deal like Kaidan on Horizon. So long as Garrus doesn't turn away... I'm all right with that.
#8437
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Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:41
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Don't a lot of people like that about Kaidan on Horizon though? That he stood up to Shep? And I don't mean Garrus leaving. I don't think Garrus would leave. I think he'd have your back no matter what. I've already explained that if anything I think he would pull a Carth and try to "save you from yourself" even if it cost him his life. I mean more that I want his personality to be more set in ME3. And I'm thinking more in terms of personal missions. In this case, it wouldn't be Garrus leaving Shepard. Rather, it would be Shepard leaving Garrus. Especially considering Shepard is the one who pushed him in one direction or another, for Shepard to suddenly change her mind on him would be a strange call on her part. I don't think he will force his opinion on Shepard, but he might reach a point where he won't let Shepard sway him either. Doesn't mean he would have to leave. Just means he won't let Shepard dictate how he does things as much.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 12 août 2010 - 05:49 .
#8438
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:46
Sialater
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I do like that about Horizon. It's about the only reason Kaidan's still getting a loyal Shep. (And why Meghan's conflicted.)
But, you're right, no matter how a difference of opinion falls out, I can't see Garrus walking away without a serious screw up on Shep's part.
But, you're right, no matter how a difference of opinion falls out, I can't see Garrus walking away without a serious screw up on Shep's part.
#8439
Posté 12 août 2010 - 05:59
goofygoff
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Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Garrus isn't there because he just needs to get laid and she's convenient, and neither is Shepard. There's nothing convenient about their romance, that's kind of the point.
"Part of me still thinks we're crazy ... but I want to try it with you. I want a few moments that are just for us ..." When he says those lines, what I hear is, "You're special to me, Shepard. I wouldn't do this with anyone else, but it's what I want because it's you."
For me, aside from the final romance scene, this line absolutely cemented the fact that it isn't just about sex for Garrus.
#8440
Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:05
Collider
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We speculated in Clan Z that Garrus' development is - and excuse the SW reference - Padawan, Jedi, Master - in other words, Garrus begins as a student, develops into a pal, and then something more. Garrus may end up being Shepard's moral guide rather than the other way around.
#8441
Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:18
goofygoff
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Collider wrote...
We speculated in Clan Z that Garrus' development is - and excuse the SW reference - Padawan, Jedi, Master - in other words, Garrus begins as a student, develops into a pal, and then something more. Garrus may end up being Shepard's moral guide rather than the other way around.
As a SW nerd, I approve!
#8442
Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:23
ThatDancingTurian
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I agree completely. At the time I wished so hard that we'd had Garrus all along because I didn't like either of FemShep's options in ME1 and I thought they'd be great together (and why couldn't BW see that and blah blah blah...). But the wait has made it that much sweeter and now I couldn't imagine romancing him in ME1 with this as the alternative. Garrus' romance is special, it's not your typical 'meet, flirt, fall in love' BioWare romance (sorry, BioWare!), and I wouldn't trade it for anything.Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Someone posted a question in Happy Hour in Clan V, that I thought I would repost. Are you guys pleased that we had to wait until ME2 to romance Garrus? In hindsight, would you want there to be a romance in ME1 for him?
And here's my answer: I agree with what others have said about Garrus' romance needing to wait until ME2. For one so he could grow and be more of Shep's emotional equal. That was part of Liara's problem, and this is also the problem that some women have with Alistair. They are just too young (in emotional age anyway) for the main character. Now I can deal with that (I love Alistair for one) but for someone as awesome as Garrus I had rather not have to babysit him. Second, I already explained how I don't like the structure of the ME1 romances in general. (I thought they felt rushed and were more a product of "oh screw it all, we're probably gonna die anyway" than any kind of deep understanding or emotion.) And third that means having the romance in ME2 creates a very natural culmination based on friendship.
Also, I admit that this is a complete hindsight answer. If I had had the option back in ME1 days, I would have been all over it, but now that we did have to wait, I am glad it worked out this way.
And yes, the repetition is partially because I have an unapologetic love of hearing myself talk (or watching myself type as it were) but it's also in the interest of thread viability. If we ever get an interesting Garrus conversation going elsewhere, I like to move it here. That's the point of the thread after all.
I disagree about Garrus' emotional age being the reason, though. I didn't see him anywhere near as immature as Alistair and Liara. I don't even think he's as young as some people imagine him. I think he just hs his own way of doing things and Shepard turns him on his head.
I think it was more that he needed to be in a place in his life where he would consider FemShep. For their relationship to work, their bond has to be stronger than the obstacles in having a physical relationship. That bond wasn't there yet in the earlier stages of ME1.
#8443
Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:27
Brian619
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
I think a very natural end for Garrus' arc is that in ME3 we finally won't be able to sway him. I want a point where he says "this is what I'm gonna do Shepard" and we just have to go along. Even better would be some sequence in which we finally get to ask Garrus for advice or he gets to pull our tail out of the fire for once. I would love that. It would be a great end to his story.
i would love to see that too, i really had enough of making big decision for him, its really bothers me when there is no "i have done my part, the rest is up to you Garrus." option during the Sidonis assasination quest. As long the "there is no way you going to change my mind" part doesn't involve Garrus doing something horrible or stuff that involving me dropping my jaw, eyes open like (O_O) and screaming "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"
#8444
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Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:42
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Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I disagree about Garrus' emotional age being the reason, though. I didn't see him anywhere near as immature as Alistair and Liara. I don't even think he's as young as some people imagine him. I think he just hs his own way of doing things and Shepard turns him on his head.
Hmm, I see what you mean here, and I didn't explain myself well. How to put it? It's not that I think he was emotionally immature in the sense that he was inexperienced. That was Liara and Alistair's problem. Rather, his problem was that he had never had anybody challenge him that had both authority and good reason behind them. He had a potentially faulty way of looking at things, but up to that point that had always worked out for him. Yet people still went on and on about how his ideas were flawed. Garrus is almost in teenage mode. He thinks he's got it figured out, but he's never had his ideas challenged to the point that he has felt the need to alter them. Yet he also has enough doubt that he listens to his father and decides not to enter Spectre training and he later decides to join Shepard to see what being a Spectre is like. What Garrus lacks is not experience but rather confirmation of his wordview. He joined up with Shepard specifically to "see for himself" and finally make up his mind. At least, that's what I think anyway. And because of that, Shepard can't help but occupy a position of authority and mentorship (is that a word?) over him and so at that point compared to her, he can't really be her equal. Does that make sense? When he rejoins Shepard later, Shepard isn't able to really alter his worldview again. She doesn't change his wordview with Sidonis. Rather, she changes the way he defines Sidonis within the parameters of his preexisting wordview. At this point, he and Shep are equals, not master and student. If you don't get what I mean by that Sidonis bit I can explain it, but it would be a long explanation.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 12 août 2010 - 06:44 .
#8445
Posté 12 août 2010 - 06:47
Kim Shepard
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It's nice that Garrus has to have that history, trust, and respect for Shepard before the romance can start. I did want him to be a romance option in ME1 though. If he was, MainShep would have romanced him without a second thought (except for "BioWare is awesome"). Same with MaleShep and Tali. He liked her in ME1. All he needed to know was that she felt the same way. MainShep is like this with Garrus too, just a bit more... forward about it.
I don't really like the idea of Garrus trying to be Shepard's "moral guide." Would it be nice for my super paranoid MaleShep to have someone who tries to keep him sane? Yeah. But most of my Shepards don't need or want someone to question their decisions. Most of them wouldn't care what someone else says - they'd do whatever they want, or whatever they think is right. It would just make some of my Shepards not like Garrus when they liked him before. (What EvilShep likes about Garrus is that he's loyal, never questions him, and follows his example. If that changes, he has no reason to like Garrus anymore.) Besides, it just wouldn't work for some Shepards. Just using the Sidonis thing or revenge in general as an example - if someone tried to stop them, they'd just shoot anyway, and some would even shoot through anyone in the way. If someone tries to say "this isn't like you," they would say "then you don't know me." If someone really speaks up against their decisions, they'd better know when to drop it.
I don't really like the idea of Garrus trying to be Shepard's "moral guide." Would it be nice for my super paranoid MaleShep to have someone who tries to keep him sane? Yeah. But most of my Shepards don't need or want someone to question their decisions. Most of them wouldn't care what someone else says - they'd do whatever they want, or whatever they think is right. It would just make some of my Shepards not like Garrus when they liked him before. (What EvilShep likes about Garrus is that he's loyal, never questions him, and follows his example. If that changes, he has no reason to like Garrus anymore.) Besides, it just wouldn't work for some Shepards. Just using the Sidonis thing or revenge in general as an example - if someone tried to stop them, they'd just shoot anyway, and some would even shoot through anyone in the way. If someone tries to say "this isn't like you," they would say "then you don't know me." If someone really speaks up against their decisions, they'd better know when to drop it.
#8446
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 12 août 2010 - 07:10
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Well, as I've said before, I think that no matter what Garrus is a "compassionate renegade." You get some say in how far you push him in one direction or another, but that being said, he is never going to be Grunt or ME1 Liara. So I think it is only natural that there may come a point where Garrus disagrees with certain decisions that Shepard makes. Especially if ME3 Shepard gets to make moral decisions that are more extremely black and white in morality. And I think he can disagree while still being loyal. Questioning doesn't always have to be of the form of "this isn't you." Sometimes it can just be "I think this is a bad idea." And I think the principal reason Garrus is loyal is because he believes in Shep. If that got challenged, I could see him wanting to correct it. In some ways, I think that would make him more loyal. That he wants to give Shep a chance rather than just discounting her out of hand. I wouldn't want blind loyalty from him. I want him to be loyal because he thinks I deserve such loyalty.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 12 août 2010 - 07:23 .
#8447
Posté 12 août 2010 - 07:30
Kim Shepard
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Yeah, that's what I meant by "knowing when to drop it." Suggestions are fine, just like the way squadmates make suggestions in ME1 and ME2. They give their opinions, but the most I've ever seen them try to convince Shepard is the Paragon argument for the rachni queen decision. It just sounded like some of you guys meant "moral guide" in the same way that Shepard guided Garrus, and I can't see that happening for most of my Shepards. Most of them are not conflicted about their opinions, and are very much set in their ways by now.
#8448
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Posté 12 août 2010 - 07:35
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Well, I do mean something more extreme than just "offering suggestions." I think it's possible that there could be some decisions that Garrus is just flat-out not okay with. In fact, I think that is natural, especially if people have been pushing him more paragon or more renegade. And as I've said before, just because such a confrontation is in the game doesn't mean everybody would have to see it. It would probably only occur under certain circumstances. Just as Alistair or Carth only become immovable in certain circumstances. And for the record, I don't think Garrus would leave Shep unless Shep became overtly evil and I think it is impossible to be overtly evil in ME.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 12 août 2010 - 07:38 .
#8449
Posté 12 août 2010 - 07:46
Mresa
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Lurker here, reading your posts. I must say you people have interesting discussions in here in a good way.:happy:
Just though that I should drop this here in case you haven't seen it already. Councilor Velarn as Spectre, showing the true power of air quotes.
http://altiuso83.dev...ectre-174925473
And yes I seem to fail in how to post direct links.
Also Garrus.<3
Just though that I should drop this here in case you haven't seen it already. Councilor Velarn as Spectre, showing the true power of air quotes.
http://altiuso83.dev...ectre-174925473
And yes I seem to fail in how to post direct links.
Also Garrus.<3
Modifié par Mresa, 12 août 2010 - 07:47 .
#8450
Posté 12 août 2010 - 07:47
Hazzel42
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I agree - even if Garrus questions his ability to be a good Turian, at the core he really still is one. It would go against his nature to refuse to follow a superior's orders, but I don't think he would hesitate to question them now. Kind of like (pardon the Star Trek ref) Reiker questioning Picard's orders. Probably in private though so Sheppard's authority wouldn't be seen as questioned.
