29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

I've updated Loved, if anyone's interested.

[kglaser]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

So did you guys let Garrus shoot Harkin in the leg? Even the people who spared Sidonis? Even though I'm mostly a paragon player, I just can't stand Harkin! I never forgot what that sleazeball said to me in ME1 so I let Garrus shoot him in my canon playthrough as a paragade. Is he a bad guy? Yup. Has he been trying to kill us? Yup. Does Garrus kill him if he shoots him? Nope. So I let him have that one. Unlike Miranda, Jack and Mordin, if you don't paragon interupt or say something paragon they will end up killing people, Garrus doesn't in that case. Plus I just plain hate Harkin .

Now that I'm role-playing a Shepard for the first time, I guess I won't be able to automatically do my usual, let Garrus headbutt him instead because I love that so much I can't even tell you.   I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, heh.

[JulianP]

@ElectricZ:  This post was a while back, but it caught my attention.

ElectricZ wrote...


I'd go a step further and suggest that Garrus wasn't planning on staying alive at all. He was going to last as long as he could to take out as many of the mercenaries as possible... But from his demeanor and how he boxed himself in, I got the feeling that Garrus was planning to die with his men. He felt responsible for their deaths and that would have been the only way out. Plus, he had nothing outside of Omega to live for... until Shepard showed up.

I'm still not completely sure, but I definitely think it's a valid reading, and one that I certainly suspected at the time.  "Boxed in" - good observation.  Garrus had a pretty bad case of survivor's guilt there.  Wouldn't be surprised if he at least half wanted to die.

[Andaius20]

Loled until I couldn't breath much share.....

[Kim Shepard]

I don't think Garrus wanted to die, but he probably thought that was going to happen, and he wanted to take out as many mercs as possible before they got to him. Go down fighting, in a blaze of glory. Good thing Shepard showed up just in time.

@Andaius: I actually understand the joke. xD (Choose "I don't think so, TIM!" even though you know he'll try it anyway.)

[Andaius20]

Anyone that watched Tool time before should.

[Kim Shepard]

Now I just imagined Tool Time for the BioWare characters. TIM as Tim. Alistair as Al. Kai Leng as the guy with the fire extinguisher [spoiler] because we know he likes to save TIM. [/spoiler] He's testing out the new Cerberus 9000 built with Reaper tech, and Renegade Shepard is right in the front row yelling "More power!"

...Garrus would probably think this is insane, being in the same room with TIM holding a Reaper weapon.

[Nilfalasiel]

Well, my Xbox finally decided it was RRoD time on Saturday  It had been doing the 3 lights for a while on startup, but a reload usually took care of the problem. Not so this time. Fortunately, it should be fixed tomorrow, so it's just a temporary setback.

Anyways, back on topic.

I never let Garrus shoot Harkin. If all the sleazeballs in the world deserved shooting, it would be a very empty place. All Harkin does in ME1 is talk, he never even tries to touch Shepard. That doesn't warrant shooting for me. That, and Shepard's mostly worried about Garrus' psychological state at that moment: she couldn't care less about Harkin.

As for the hostages in BDtS, same thing: I could never let them die just to get Balak. They never asked to be put in this situation, and it's certainly not my Shepard's call to sacrifice them. Call it a flaw, but "few for the many" is something none of my Shepards can do.

I also think Kasumi would be in favour of saving them. Not Legion though. I agree on the other squaddies.

As for Garrus' state of mind on Omega: I don't think he was consciously trying his best to die, but he'd probably resigned himself to the fact that he'd been cornered with no way out. It's only when Shepard shows up that he'll think his luck has turned. Concerning his trust of Shepard, I don't think he'd ever seriously doubt her/him. He'd probably wonder what was going on when he woke up in the med bay on the Normandy, but as has been mentioned, Chakwas would probably be able to reassure him, and any residual misgivings he may have would be cleared up by talking to Shepard afterwards.

@ kraidy: Concerning Tali's evolution in ME2...I didn't actually notice any major changes to her character.  What did you mean?

@ Kim: In order to decipher the vision from the beacons (and therefore understand that she/he needs to go to Ilos), Shepard needs to have the Cipher. The Cipher is found on Feros. That's your reason for doing Feros, in any order you choose. Because even if Shepard gets the visions from both beacons (Eden Prime and Virmire), they're all but useless without the Cipher. And even if she/he knows they need to use the Mu Relay, it's pointless without knowing which planet they need to go to.

One last thing: concerning Garrus' lack of dialogue in comparison to Tali: she doesn't really get more convos than him if you're a FemShep. She'll talk to you when you first get her onboard, then when her LM triggers, then after her LM. And once more after that, I believe...that's it. Otherwise, she'll always be cleaning the engine. But I guess the more Tali-savvy people can confirm or infirm that.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 16 août 2010 - 09:02 .

[Bugsie]

Awwww Nil, my sincerest condolences on your RRoD, having had such a recent loss myself I can say it's not all bad - I managed to save my games and I got a new xbox (one that doesn't sound like it's about to take off everytime you fire it up)



In regard to Harkin, most of my playthroughs I don't let Garrus shoot him. Only my ultra renegade does, and I have had only one play through on ME2 with him.

[kglaser]

I feel y'all's pain on the RROD...it's a depressingly non_exclusive club, it seems :/

On Harkin, I'm having a hard time not planning to headbutt him...when Garrus says "I didn't *shoot* him", that's one of my favorite ME2 moments, right there.

[Pacifien]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
I never let Garrus shoot Harkin. If all the sleazeballs in the world deserved shooting, it would be a very empty place. All Harkin does in ME1 is talk, he never even tries to touch Shepard. That doesn't warrant shooting for me. That, and Shepard's mostly worried about Garrus' psychological state at that moment: she couldn't care less about Harkin.

I'll let Garrus shoot Harkin in the leg, but won't let him shoot Sidonis. This is because Harkin just unleashed two YMIR mechs on me, which inevitably led to a fight where my two squadmates decide to lie down for a bit while I take out the mechs myself. And that pisses me off. I'd maybe have let Garrus shoot Sidonis in the leg, too, but that wasn't an option.

Nilfalasiel wrote...
As for the hostages in BDtS, same thing: I could never let them die just to get Balak. They never asked to be put in this situation, and it's certainly not my Shepard's call to sacrifice them. Call it a flaw, but "few for the many" is something none of my Shepards can do.

The first time through, I saved the hostages, talking with Kate, I got this odd feeling in her reaction while discussing Balak's escape. Kate sacrificed her own brother to see the plot thwarted. Then she sees the person responsible for her brother's death, the person who almost destroyed her home, go free. And even if Shepard promises to find him and bring him to justice, turns out Shepard gets busy fighting Geth and then dying first.

Most times since then, I've gone after Balak. Why he doesn't set the bomb traps then, too, is all metagameplay incongruity, but anyway, my Shepards aren't about to let an unrepentant, failed mass murderer walk away.

Depending on the Shepard, I'll even kill Balak's right hand man Charn the second he admits to being a slaver. Colonial Shepard don't play that game.

Nilfalasiel wrote...
@ kraidy: Concerning Tali's evolution in ME2...I didn't actually notice any major changes to her character.  What did you mean?

Major change? I don't know. But there is certainly a change to her character. You first meet Tali, she's a quarian on her Pilgrimage who feels she can handle herself, help take on the galaxy, even after the premiere Spectre of the Council tried to kill her. Ballsy.

She appears to be a lot more jaded by the time you meet her in ME2. Not sure of the Admiralty Board's motives. Survivor of two complete bloodbath quarian missions.

Her romance is a borderline issue for me, difficult to discuss on these forums because of the extreme polar reactions to it, neither of which I have. But either way, it does play into the idea that her character was altered from the one we see in ME1 to the one in ME2. Her romance is Liara's romance: a crush, a first love, the slight embarrassment as she fumbles through to its sweet conclusion. Great, if that's your thing. Weak, if it's not.

Nilfalasiel wrote...
One last thing: concerning Garrus' lack of dialogue in comparison to Tali: she doesn't really get more convos than him if you're a FemShep. She'll talk to you when you first get her onboard, then when her LM triggers, then after her LM. And once more after that, I believe...that's it. Otherwise, she'll always be cleaning the engine. But I guess the more Tali-savvy people can confirm or infirm that.

Tali's dialogue tree is just as stunted as Garrus's (they both go 1 conversation + loyalty mission conversation + 2 more), but arguably contains more content. Her loyalty mission also contains a great deal more dialogue versus Garrus's. What we learn from Tali's conversations is leagues more than what we'll learn from Garrus's.

[Nilfalasiel]

Pacifien wrote...

I'll let Garrus shoot Harkin in the leg, but won't let him shoot Sidonis. This is because Harkin just unleashed two YMIR mechs on me, which inevitably led to a fight where my two squadmates decide to lie down for a bit while I take out the mechs myself. And that pisses me off. I'd maybe have let Garrus shoot Sidonis in the leg, too, but that wasn't an option.

Yes, that's a valid explanation. But I still inevitably see it as a situation where Garrus is brutalizing an unarmed person (yes, he sent mechs at me, but when Garrus is beating him up, he is unarmed). That's what bothers my Shepards. And the fact that Garrus appears to be enjoying it.

The first time through, I saved the hostages, talking with Kate, I got this odd feeling in her reaction while discussing Balak's escape. Kate sacrificed her own brother to see the plot thwarted. Then she sees the person responsible for her brother's death, the person who almost destroyed her home, go free. And even if Shepard promises to find him and bring him to justice, turns out Shepard gets busy fighting Geth and then dying first.

Most times since then, I've gone after Balak. Why he doesn't set the bomb traps then, too, is all metagameplay incongruity, but anyway, my Shepards aren't about to let an unrepentant, failed mass murderer walk away.

Depending on the Shepard, I'll even kill Balak's right hand man Charn the second he admits to being a slaver. Colonial Shepard don't play that game.

Again, good points, but Shepard has no way of knowing she/he is going to die before she/he has the chance of going after Balak without metagaming. So I still can't let my Shep be responsible for blowing up innocent people. Even if two of my FemSheps are Colonists, unless they have proof that Charn is the same guy who led the slave raid on Mindoir, it won't do to gun down a guy who has agreed to negotiate. 'Course, he only gets one warning: if he ever tries another slave grab, Shepard won't be quite as reasonable.

Major change? I don't know. But there is certainly a change to her character. You first meet Tali, she's a quarian on her Pilgrimage who feels she can handle herself, help take on the galaxy, even after the premiere Spectre of the Council tried to kill her. Ballsy.

She appears to be a lot more jaded by the time you meet her in ME2. Not sure of the Admiralty Board's motives. Survivor of two complete bloodbath quarian missions.

I agree that there's a change, as well there should be. It just seemed to me that kraidy was implying the change was extreme. I thought it was pretty natural, considering Tali's overall disposition. She never was a Paragon.

Her romance is a borderline issue for me, difficult to discuss on these forums because of the extreme polar reactions to it, neither of which I have. But either way, it does play into the idea that her character was altered from the one we see in ME1 to the one in ME2. Her romance is Liara's romance: a crush, a first love, the slight embarrassment as she fumbles through to its sweet conclusion. Great, if that's your thing. Weak, if it's not.

The main difference here is that Tali is defined by something other than her romance: she already had a personality in ME1. Yes, she was the slightly nerdy, geeky type (ie. quarian encyclopedia), but at least she wasn't 95% defined by her romance like Liara was and wasn't swooning all over the place. I agree that there are similarities in the fact that it's a first love for her, but she's much less aggressive about it than Liara, which is what redeems it in my eyes. ME1 Tali never trapped anyone in a romance, mainly because she was modest about her potential attractiveness to a human (ie. didn't think it was possible).

Tali's dialogue tree is just as stunted as Garrus's (they both go 1 conversation + loyalty mission conversation + 2 more), but arguably contains more content. Her loyalty mission also contains a great deal more dialogue versus Garrus's. What we learn from Tali's conversations is leagues more than what we'll learn from Garrus's.

Yes, that's fair enough. Although in terms of emotional content, I think they're pretty much equivalent: you learn about as much about Garrus' emotional state as about Tali's. The difference is that Tali's LM also has all those factual details about the quarians, and in that respect, yes, it has more content.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 16 août 2010 - 01:09 .

[Pacifien]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Yes, that's fair enough. Although in terms of emotional content, I think they're pretty much equivalent: you learn about as much about Garrus' emotional state as about Tali's. The difference is that Tali's LM also has all those factual details about the quarians, and in that respect, yes, it has more content.

Yes, didn't mean to imply stunted meant lack of content. The content is there, but compare the four conversations for Garrus compared to the seven or so conversations to Mordin. Plus Mordin's rotating "leave me alone, I'm busy" comments. If there was any squadmate that people didn't complain about lack of dialogue, it was Mordin. I'd say he's the benchmark the developers should be aiming toward the squadmates in the next game. Plus some other tweaks, but as a starting point, take Mordin's dialogue tree and go from there.

[Pacifien]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
Yes, that's a valid explanation. But I still inevitably see it as a situation where Garrus is brutalizing an unarmed person (yes, he sent mechs at me, but when Garrus is beating him up, he is unarmed). That's what bothers my Shepards. And the fact that Garrus appears to be enjoying it.

The mannerisms/comments for Shepard during Garrus's loyalty mission seems to be heavy on the emphasis that Garrus was letting his thirst for vengeance consume him. Particularly I think of how Shepard has to tap Garrus on the shoulder to get him to stop stepping on Harkin's neck. I think a more ruthless Shepard would verbally snap at Garrus to stop with the aggressive tactics and get the information already.

Still, however paragon/renegade Shepard happens to be, I do agree that Garrus needs to be reigned in on his push for information from Harkin once its apparent Harkin is going to play ball. But Harkin was able to evade C-Sec before, so would rather slow down his inevitable escape attempt once you get the information on Sidonis. In that respect, shooting him in the leg was more a brutal practicality. But probably one Shepard should do considering the emotional attachment Garrus has to the whole ordeal.

[Sialater]

"Revenge is a dish best served cold." Garrus is anything but cold when he's going after Sidonis.

[Kim Shepard]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

@ Kim: In order to decipher the vision from the beacons (and therefore understand that she/he needs to go to Ilos), Shepard needs to have the Cipher. The Cipher is found on Feros. That's your reason for doing Feros, in any order you choose. Because even if Shepard gets the visions from both beacons (Eden Prime and Virmire), they're all but useless without the Cipher. And even if she/he knows they need to use the Mu Relay, it's pointless without knowing which planet they need to go to.

Thanks. I forgot about Shiala and the Cipher. (Maybe I wanted to forget about Shiala. xD)

I already gave MainShep's opinions about Garrus' loyalty mission. When you go the total Renegade path with Sidonis (killing him the first chance you get), there isn't much dialogue compared to the other loyalty missions, but MainShep was happy to help him get revenge again. She's not worried about his mental state at all. Garrus is thinking like her, and when someone shares her opinions (or Saren's), she'll just say, "I like the way you think."

It's probably obvious how batarian-hating MainShep would solve things in Bring Down The Sky if I had the DLC. Go after Balak, kill all the batarians, etc. She would never let slavers get away. It doesn't matter if they weren't the ones who killed her family and would have tortured her like Talitha if the Alliance soldiers hadn't saved her - the people they take are all someone's family and friends, and if more die because she let them go, she would have to live with that. She would feel like she failed all those people.

MaleShep doesn't have a personal vengeance against batarians, but he does hate slavers of any race. Still, his decision would all be based on Balak. He won't go out of his way to save people if it means going against the mission plans (unless he really cares about those people). For example, MaleShep hesitated to take the gas grenades to save the colonists on Feros, but in the end he went along with it because it didn't change the mission - he had to go through them anyway, so whether he used those grenades or his own didn't matter. When he had to make a choice between Kaidan with the nuke at Virmire or Ashley with a salarian team, of course he chose the nuke (luckily, his friend was the one guarding it). In the ME2 side mission where he has to choose between saving an Alliance station and saving a colony, he chooses the Alliance station. Sometimes his choices aren't that hard to figure out. A few of them can be though, because it's not the simple "side with the people you like" choices MainShep makes.

[FsDxRAGE]

hey guys, would turian blood taste sweet since they are dextro?

[Sialater]

Despite it being a running joke in this group, I don't think we've actually decided.

[kglaser]

If so, that would mean the sweat is sweet too.

Also, did we ever deduce which metal is the basis of the turian equivalent of hemoglobin?

[Hazzel42]

kglaser wrote...

If so, that would mean the sweat is sweet too.
Also, did we ever deduce which metal is the basis of the turian equivalent of hemoglobin?

Well the chemistry would be different, but if they used a similar system to crabs then the metal would likely be copper.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hemocyanin

[Andaius20]

lol N7!



Also how's it going Garrusites?

[kglaser]

Haha N7, that's hilarious

Hi Andaius All is well here...I finished the damn Hot Labs and now I'm dragging Garrus around the Citadel with me, so what more could I want...hehe

[ciaweth]

kglaser wrote...
so what more could I want...hehe

Squeaky shoes?

[kglaser]

Hahahaha!

Yup, now life is good. XD