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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion

Débuté par Chimervera , juin 26 2010 03:45

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#8901
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:40

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Xsause wrote...

CHEESECAKE!

*readies weapons*
*gives orders to fleet and army*
*cheesit*
Xsause!!!!

#8902
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:44

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That's actually the problem with ending cutscenes. I've always felt that good guys got the short end of the stick there. Bad ending usually equals more stuff because the bad ending usually ends with the player becoming supreme evil badass of the millennium and getting to leer evilly over his army of death commandos or whatever. But once all the fighting is done good usually equals boring. Watching victory banquets is pretty lame. The thing that is interesting is finding out what other escapades and adventures the goods guys got up to afterwards and it's hard to do that without text or final squaddie conversations.

#8903
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:45

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Interesting. What are your opinions on the endings of ME1 and ME2? Were any of them good? Which one was better?

#8904
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:46

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

That's actually the problem with ending cutscenes. I've always felt that good guys got the short end of the stick there. Bad ending usually equals more stuff because the bad ending usually ends with the player becoming supreme evil badass of the millennium and getting to leer evilly over his army of death commandos or whatever. But once all the fighting is done good usually equals boring. Watching victory banquets is pretty lame. The thing that is interesting is finding out what other escapades and adventures the goods guys got up to afterwards and it's hard to do that without text or final squaddie conversations.

Which is why evil is cooler!
And besides you don't need to worry about retirement!
..Because your second in command/apprentice/LI will kill you and take your place!
Now that's what I call peace of mind.

#8905
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:48

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Collider wrote...

Interesting. What are your opinions on the endings of ME1 and ME2? Were any of them good? Which one was better?

It's not the end of the series.
ME1 is "either Humanity is in charge or the council is and you better be ready for ME2"
ME2 is "you beat the Collectors but the Reapers are awake now so hold on to your ass"

#8906
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:49

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Collider wrote...

Interesting. What are your opinions on the endings of ME1 and ME2? Were any of them good? Which one was better?


Well, they were good because they had hooks leading into the next game so I don't think they are conventional Bioware game endings.

I like them both, but the ME2 is my favorite for several reasons.  1) Emphasis on my squad instead of just Shepard.  2) Getting to tell TIM to suck it.  3) Giant Reaper fleet.  Epic, cool music, and a nice "Oh crap" as Garrus and Hellboy say.

But I like both ME1 and ME2's ending because Shep still gets to do something after the final battle.  It's minor stuff like picking the councilor or talking to TIM one last time, but I like it.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 18 août 2010 - 10:54 .

#8907
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:51

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I agree. Although I would have wanted to see the entire squad at the ending of the game.

#8908
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:53

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

That's actually the problem with ending cutscenes. I've always felt that good guys got the short end of the stick there. Bad ending usually equals more stuff because the bad ending usually ends with the player becoming supreme evil badass of the millennium and getting to leer evilly over his army of death commandos or whatever. But once all the fighting is done good usually equals boring. Watching victory banquets is pretty lame. The thing that is interesting is finding out what other escapades and adventures the goods guys got up to afterwards and it's hard to do that without text or final squaddie conversations.

Which is why evil is cooler!
And besides you don't need to worry about retirement!
..Because your second in command/apprentice/LI will kill you and take your place!
Now that's what I call peace of mind.


But-but as a paragade I get to step on bad guys necks!  And snipe people for justice!  And cheer for Boo when he goes for the eyes!

Yea, to each their own.  I never could play straight up evil guys.  I'm too much of a softie.  Now a badass paragade I can do (and is in fact my favorite.)  Only game I could stand being outright evil in was Oblivion.  Shadowmere+vampire+assassin=too cool.

And to make this OT, that's one of the reasons Garrus strikes such a cord with me.  Our worldview's sync up about 90% of the time.

@Collider

I agree about it being better if the whole squad was there but as Legion, Grunt, and Garrus were all there (and those guys are in my top five) I was still pretty pleased.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 18 août 2010 - 10:55 .

#8909
Mr.BlazenGlazen
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:55

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Garrus Thread.

CAKE OF CHEESE

#8910
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:56

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I think part of the reason why many people like Garrus is because he wants to better the world. It's quite a sympathetic cause.

#8911
Cra5y Pineapple
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:56

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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I would have been very dipleased.  I like how DAO had one last squaddie conversation with everybody.  That would be a good touch. 

I didn't even like DA: O but I still think it went in a brilliant direction with characters and their interractions.

#8912
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:59

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DA:O had a bit of problem with pacing the conversations, but it's not an easy matter though for the devs.

#8913
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
Posté 18 août 2010 - 10:59

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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Garrus Thread.

CAKE OF CHEESE

*raises eyebrow*
Mr.Glazen.
*signals fleet
*ignites weapon*
We meet again.

#8914
Xsause
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:00

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I wanted to see the entire squad getting behind Shepard as he/she looked out the window at the end. True, it would've been a bit cliché, but it would fit in with the entire loyalty thing ME2 had going.

Modifié par Xsause, 18 août 2010 - 11:04 .

#8915
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:02

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I wanted to see Mordin and Tali at the ending. They are some of my most favorite characters.

Modifié par Collider, 18 août 2010 - 11:04 .

#8916
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:05

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Collider wrote...

DA:O had a bit of problem with pacing the conversations, but it's not an easy matter though for the devs.


This is largely because people spam them.  Same with ME1 conversations.  Just don't drop every gift item you have on the character and talk to them every five minutes and it's not as much of a problem.  Though I think "gifts" were a bad idea anyway except for the special ones that prompted conversations.

But seriously, they've tried everything known to man.  Timers in BG2.  A mix of leveling and plot progression in KotoR and JE.  Mission progression in ME1.  Approval in DAO.  Players always find some way to abuse it.  I remember leaving BG2 minimized for an hour while I did other stuff just so I could get another romance dialog to pop up.  Or walking in and out of the Ebon Hawk over and over to get one.  The best they have done IMO was actually in Hordes of the Underdark where conversations are only triggered following major plot progressions, but then they had a problem that some of them didn't trigger at all.  But if they fix the triggers I think that is the way to go.  It would also create balance.  This way hopefully Garrus would get equal conversations with everybody else as everybody would be programmed to have a new conversation after the same development in the plot.  I admit that LMs created a complication though.  I also think some of the lack of Garrus and Tali conversations is because they were squaddies in ME1 and the devs didn't want to be unfair to people with ME1 LIs and also wanted to save some content for ME3.  At least, I hope that is their reasoning.  It's difficult to come up with a perfect formula.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 18 août 2010 - 11:10 .

#8917
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:08

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Xsause wrote...

I wanted to see the entire squad getting behind Shepard as he/she looked out the window at the end. True, it would've been a bit cliché, but it would fit in with the entire loyalty thing ME2 had going.


I like this.  I didn't mean I didn't want to see other people.  I just thought that some was better than just Shepard.

@Collider

Ha, you just named the other two in my top five.

#8918
Collider
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:11

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This is largely because people spam them. Same with ME1 conversations.


ME1 was a bit better because once you're done with conversations, it's pretty close to the end of the game. Although I do remember getting disappointed that Kaidan had nothing more to say.



Just don't drop every gift item you have on the character and talk to them every five minutes and it's not a problem. Though I think "gifts" were a bad idea anyway except for the special ones that prompted conversations.


Yea, but unless they know the conversation in and out they wouldn't know how many conversations they have left with a character. It's hard to pace them if one doesn't know how much content there is. I also agree that non-plot gifts were a bad idea. i hope they get rid of that in DA2.



I agree that pacing them through the plot is the best way to go. However, I can see the positives of allowing the player to talk to the character whenever they want. The problem with that though as we said was the pacing.

#8919
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 18 août 2010 - 11:26

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Collider wrote...
ME1 was a bit better because once you're done with conversations, it's pretty close to the end of the game. Although I do remember getting disappointed that Kaidan had nothing more to say.


I meant with Garrus, Tali, and Wrex.  You get their conversations to come up after any mission, even little side missions.  Kaidan, Liara, and Ash's only come up after major story missions.  Or so I think anyway.  I remember on my first few playthroughs that Garrus started talking about Saren getting away over and over way early in the game and I thought it was weird as we had just started our mission.

Yea, but unless they know the conversation in and out they wouldn't know how many conversations they have left with a character. It's hard to pace them if one doesn't know how much content there is. I also agree that non-plot gifts were a bad idea. i hope they get rid of that in DA2.


With this, I meant how people would spam all gifts on one character, even gifts that obviously weren't for them.  I've read things were people would do things like give dog bones to Alistair or whoever just for the 1 or 2 points of approval it would get them.  If you stick to obvious in-character gifts, you tend to only find 1 gift per squaddie per major mission so it usually works out.

Though I do agree that not knowing the amount of conversations can lead to problems with a player pacing himself.  It's a tough issue to get perfect.  This and romance triggers.  They have never gotten either spot on.  But they got darn close with the later in certain areas of ME2.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 18 août 2010 - 11:28 .

#8920
kglaser
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:06

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I can only imagine how much work it is to insert all of those extra dialogues, for multiple characters, and arrange for them to trigger at particular times.  I get why there aren't enough dialogues for some characters in the ME games--the developers really have their work cut out for them, especially in ME2, after all the feedback they got in ME1 and the things/gameplay/aspects they have to include.

OTOH, I can't help but think of how unreasonably delighted I was in the old adventure game Full Throttle to click 10 times in a row on the same two people having a conversation and hear a completely different (and hilarious) exchange all ten times.  Of everything from that game, that's one of the things I remember best.  Moments of uniqueness like that in games are really special, at least they are to me.  So sure, I'd love more dialogue although I know everything is going to start repeating eventually.  Heck, in ME1 even the ERCS guards on Noveria would each say 4 diffent things, and each changed one or two of the comments completely after Kaira Stirling was killed.  It was a joy to talk to those guys (especially donut guy, haha).

/end rambling

#8921
Jackalope
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:53

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Which is why evil is cooler!
And besides you don't need to worry about retirement!
..Because your second in command/apprentice/LI will kill you and take your place!
Now that's what I call peace of mind.


Well I can't argue with this logic.

So...ending for ME3 should be like the ending of Star Wars.  Instead of Leia, Anderson gives medals to you and Garrus.  Then Tali sort of jumps around and everyone smiles.  And then Grunt roars.  Credits.  Oh yeah.

Kidding, kidding...

#8922
kglaser
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:56

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Better than the ending of The Empire Strikes Back where Shepard stares out the window at a bunch of Reapers coming and Garrus is frozen in a slab of carbonite. :(

#8923
Giggles_Manically
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:57

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RESISTS URGE TO RANT ON PREQUELS.



I just want ME3 to end the arc and not leave me facepalming like ME2.



Gadzukes a Human Reaper how... meh.

#8924
Jackalope
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:57

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What about Return of the Jedi...Shepard sees the ghosts of Saren, Nihlus, and the Virmire victim all smiling...

#8925
Pedpickle
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:00

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Found this somewhere.

Have you guys seen it before?
If not, thoughts.
Posted Image
(she gets bigger if you 'view image')
I like it. Female turians should look this pretty. :lol:



this isn't mine, & I have no idea who made it.

Modifié par Pedpickle, 19 août 2010 - 01:04 .

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