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[battlechantress]

It's rum and Coke night... so expect rambling ahead!



I honestly don't think the devs really thought out turians *that* far. Heck, they changed the codex entries on turians from ME1 and ME2 (they removed the "avian" reference, notably). Who knows what they'll add/change in ME3? They probably didn't think they had to explain turian anatomy and physiology to players in ME1 beyond the absolute basics (let's face it, we know exactly how asari reproduce. We even have an idea on krogans. But turians? Hah!). They only bring up the "chafing and possible shock" issues in ME2 if you romance Garrus.



I don't pretend to know how interspecies sex between turians and humans would work, but I offer up Garrus' own story about him and the turian scout as strong evidence that they probably aren't gentle about it ("We settled for a tiebreaker in her quarters" does *not* sound like they just went and "cuddled", and that makes me wonder if Garrus could tolerate having to be a bit more gentle with Shepard during sex and still be satisfied. Since he does seem serious about a long- term relationship with fem Shep, however, it may not even be a concern).



As for kissing, the author of "The Hundred Year Distance" mentions that Shepard can only nip at Garrus' upper lip, and that they can never actually kiss, and that's basically about the only way I see it being (realistically) done. Now do they purr and all that? Not a clue. When I read fanfics, I care more about if the characters are plausible and the stories are better written than mine (since I know the authors are just as in the dark as the rest of us).

[Bugsie]

silentstephi wrote...

Yea Buggirl, I think a ton of buttons are being pushed tonight.
o.o
I'm not a fan of the kissing, sure, but if someone does kissing in their fic, just like I said in NSFW, I can roll with it. One thing isn't going to ruin the reading experience for me. XD A combination? Snow balls get into effect, etc.

I've read plenty of fics with kissing, biting, growling, purring, nipping, and other human like things, I don't care, if it's well written, I'm game. I've only been squicked out once... and well, that was my own damn fault. XD

And while sure, I've heard the whole "the rated T stuff is so much better most of the time" argument before... eh. All fan fiction is hit or miss. Just because of it's rating, doesn't denote what's going to be better or worse. It just means some is looked a bit more harshly, or closely, than others. There's exceptions out there, and there are shining examples too. But it's the nature of the beast.
/shrug
In the end, while sure, it's all fiction, it's also all entertainment. And also... speculation. Everyone's got a brain, and six different opinions to go with it.

I'll still love people in the morning. XD
*trudges off to bed before she digs herself any deeper.*

Yes entertainment Stephi, you hit the nail on the head! and its the interwebs, where everyone has an opinion!!  I haven't read much ff for a while (read quite a bit about 6-7 years ago during my trekkie phase) but most people want to write because they want to get close to the characters (well thats why I do) and its mostly harmless stuff.

I take everything I see online fairly lightly - no point getting too hot under the collar, just makes me sad to see certain things, and atm I'm on bit of an emo rollercoaster.  But the reason I like hanging here and with CLan V is that everyone is really nice and respectful, how couldnt they be with GV as role model?

Night , sweet turian dreams (do you think they dream?)

[Cerrydd]

Pacifien wrote...

I've actually seen people be quite dexterous with long nails. The nails simply become an extension of the fingers; rather than press a button with the end of your finger, you press it with the nail.

This is true for me. I feel handicapped when a finger nail broke off and I have to cut it. When I pick up a pen, I use my nails and not my fingers. If I have to pick up a coin off the ground, I use my nails and not my fingers. Typing is done with my nails, not my fingers.

Talons sinking into my skin... no thanks. I don't know if turians take care of their talons. But Garrus was wearing gloves in the romance scene, so I don't worry about that. As long as those gloves are really sturdy.

[Tootles FTW]

@Buggirl -  I don't know if you're specifically referring to me since I brought up the topic, but I didn't mean to offend or imply any sort of insult towards you or any fanfic writer. I've read plenty of great ME fics that include kissing, I just find the physical logistics of it worth discussing.

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I personally don't associate "anger" with "masculinity."  Frankly I'm a hot-tempered person and I'm definitely feminine.  Although I guess this does kind of explain why society is more accepting or even embracing of characters like Edward Cullen in popular media.  To me, when Garrus lets his temper get the better of him, that's a turn-off rather than a turn-on.  It's disturbing to me to watch him beat up Harkin even if Harkin deserves it, and to hear him rant about how he needs to kill someone in cold blood out of vengeance--or justice, as he claims.  I can accept his temper and his disagreeing with my more paragon Shepards, as long as he's sufficiently in control of that hot-headedness.  So maybe that's why I don't get the "growl" thing or the "nearly deciding to attack Shepard for the purpose of harm but turning it into seduction at the last minute" thing being considered so hot by other people.

Opinions are weird, because I personally find the entire Harkin scene HOT.  Like, "pass me a cigarette"-hot, and I don't even smoke.    I don't quite get the Edward Cullen reference, though, haha; is he angry a lot?  And for clarification, I don't find irrational anger a turn-on, but a little hot-blooded temper now & then is fine by me, whether it be from a man or a woman; it all comes down to a passionate personality, as long as you don't go to the extreme.

[Bugsie]

battlechantress wrote...

It's rum and Coke night... so expect rambling ahead!

I honestly don't think the devs really thought out turians *that* far. Heck, they changed the codex entries on turians from ME1 and ME2 (they removed the "avian" reference, notably). Who knows what they'll add/change in ME3? They probably didn't think they had to explain turian anatomy and physiology to players in ME1 beyond the absolute basics (let's face it, we know exactly how asari reproduce. We even have an idea on krogans. But turians? Hah!). They only bring up the "chafing and possible shock" issues in ME2 if you romance Garrus.

yes I noticed that!!

I don't pretend to know how interspecies sex between turians and humans would work, but I offer up Garrus' own story about him and the turian scout as strong evidence that they probably aren't gentle about it ("We settled for a tiebreaker in her quarters" does *not* sound like they just went and "cuddled", and that makes me wonder if Garrus could tolerate having to be a bit more gentle with Shepard during sex and still be satisfied. Since he does seem serious about a long- term relationship with fem Shep, however, it may not even be a concern).

Yes I didnt see it as a passive thing betwen Garrus and the scout.  Can i have a link to your story please BC, I must have missed that one cos I know I read some of your very good work  - I've just written my own version because I hadnt seen any other versions of the story on ff.net - I'd like to read yours!!!

As for kissing, the author of "The Hundred Year Distance" mentions that Shepard can only nip at Garrus' upper lip, and that they can never actually kiss, and that's basically about the only way I see it being (realistically) done. Now do they purr and all that? Not a clue. When I read fanfics, I care more about if the characters are plausible and the stories are better written than mine (since I know the authors are just as in the dark as the rest of us).

Being a newbie I'm always interested in other peoples depictions (and not just sex but of turian culture too), I don't think I've read that one yet though.

[Pacifien]

Since my only gripe (and that's putting it strongly) was the whole biting thing, I suppose I should mention I still read those fics. I don't immediately stop reading them in disgust, I just am pretty sure that those writing them have never been bitten by a cat. Turian bites absc---okay, nevermind.

[Tootles FTW]

battlechantress wrote...

I don't pretend to know how interspecies sex between turians and humans would work, but I offer up Garrus' own story about him and the turian scout as strong evidence that they probably aren't gentle about it ("We settled for a tiebreaker in her quarters" does *not* sound like they just went and "cuddled", and that makes me wonder if Garrus could tolerate having to be a bit more gentle with Shepard during sex and still be satisfied. Since he does seem serious about a long- term relationship with fem Shep, however, it may not even be a concern).

I don't think we can really take one story as an absolute for every instance that he does the deed. He was bringing that story up in regards to a tense war-time scenario, with a female turian that he didn't particularly get along with; you can get all kinds of unexpectedly kinky during a one-night fling, let alone under pressure.

Also, I think his tone seemed to relate mild embarassment in regards to the act, which just further adds to my belief that either the casual sex aspect of the story or the aggressive nature of the sex itself is not the norm for Garrus.

[Brass_Buckles]

silentstephi wrote...

Yea Buggirl, I think a ton of buttons are being pushed tonight.
o.o
I'm not a fan of the kissing, sure, but if someone does kissing in their fic, just like I said in NSFW, I can roll with it. One thing isn't going to ruin the reading experience for me. XD A combination? Snow balls get into effect, etc.

I've read plenty of fics with kissing, biting, growling, purring, nipping, and other human like things, I don't care, if it's well written, I'm game. I've only been squicked out once... and well, that was my own damn fault. XD

And while sure, I've heard the whole "the rated T stuff is so much better most of the time" argument before... eh. All fan fiction is hit or miss. Just because of it's rating, doesn't denote what's going to be better or worse. It just means some is looked a bit more harshly, or closely, than others. There's exceptions out there, and there are shining examples too. But it's the nature of the beast.
/shrug
In the end, while sure, it's all fiction, it's also all entertainment. And also... speculation. Everyone's got a brain, and six different opinions to go with it.

I'll still love people in the morning. XD
*trudges off to bed before she digs herself any deeper.*

OK meant to go to bed, have to work in the morning, but I feel this needs to be addressed.

A) Like I already said, twice, I'm cool with people preferring what they do, but I was expressing my own opinion.  I didn't know I'd get people's hackles up by doing so because I haven't once meant to be hostile if I've come across that way.  So I'm sorry if anyone's been offended.

 The reason I stated that I generally prefer T-rated stuff?  Usually it's more likely to have an actual plot.  I think pure smut is often degrading and tasteless and not just to women but also to men--an opinion you may find offensive, but remember that I'm not dissing all smut and that it's the opinion of one person.  If I hated you guys for enjoying what you enjoy then I wouldn't be here; I do not judge you based on what you read or write even if I think it's silly or am disturbed by the implications.  About half of the smut I've run across on Shep/Garrus is actually not that bad, although it's usually silly by my standards (again I just don't get the injury or the growling fetishes, but if you like it, then by all means enjoy it!).  I enjoy good plots more than I enjoy romance, but the strange thing is that I often enjoy discussing romance and speculating about world details more than I enjoy discussing plots, and I obviously still like romance within the plot.  (Invictus happens to be my current favorite Garrus/Shep fic.  I don't remember what rating it is, but it's very low on the smut factor if it has any at all.  Sia Later's Loved is a close second even though it's mostly a recap of in-game events, and I think she's putting it together in non-chronological order?)  That said, I've read a few M-rated things that were good even with the smut, and M-rated things that don't involve romance or smut at all.

C) I consider myself a feminist.  No, I'm not a militant one (I would like to see men and women treat one another with respect and I'd like to be paid as much as my male counterparts with the same experience and qualifications in the same field of expertise--I don't want any special rights or treatment for either gender), but yes, I will point out that I find the particular focus on the idea of a "violent" or "pathologically jealous" Garrus from a lot of people who claim to hate Edward in Twilight for the same reasons to be a bit disturbing.  I'm aware it's just fic, but the prevalence of that kind of fic could hint at some kind of ingrained desire or cultural preference for a controlling significant other.  If that is the case then I think we should all be concerned.  So that's the primary "why" behind not particularly liking most M-rated stuff.

Some of it simply uses too much course language for my liking, which I think actually serves to degrade both genders.  Logically I understand that it's just meant to be wild, hot stuff.  But in practice I just see "this situation just sounds disgusting" because the language used doesn't engender any kind of respect; it is to all intents and purposes "dirty."  Writing can be explicit without being dirty.  I've seen it done.  The overuse of dirty language and colloquialisms just makes me feel like someone's trying too hard to be edgy and getting it all wrong.

So yeah.  No disrespect has been intended and I again offer apologies for anyone my opinions may have offended.  However, I won't apologize for having my opinions, nor will I apologize for my opinions if I change said opinions two weeks or ten years from now.

[Brass_Buckles]

Tootles FTW wrote...

battlechantress wrote...

I don't pretend to know how interspecies sex between turians and humans would work, but I offer up Garrus' own story about him and the turian scout as strong evidence that they probably aren't gentle about it ("We settled for a tiebreaker in her quarters" does *not* sound like they just went and "cuddled", and that makes me wonder if Garrus could tolerate having to be a bit more gentle with Shepard during sex and still be satisfied. Since he does seem serious about a long- term relationship with fem Shep, however, it may not even be a concern).

I don't think we can really take one story as an absolute for every instance that he does the deed. He was bringing that story up in regards to a tense war-time scenario, with a female turian that he didn't particularly get along with; you can get all kinds of unexpectedly kinky during a one-night fling, let alone under pressure.

Also, I think his tone seemed to relate mild embarassment in regards to the act, which just further adds to my belief that either the casual sex aspect of the story or the aggressive nature of the sex itself is not the norm for Garrus.

Add to this the fact that he definitely seems to be at least starting out very gently with Shepard.  That forehead-bump and the gentle arm-stroking don't look like the precursors to nearly ripping one another apart.  Does that mean they just cuddle and talk?  Probably not.  They don't have much time and I seriously doubt they even touched the wine.

Again turians are people, not animals.  One night of wild sex with someone he clearly didn't like emotionally (hate sex!) doesn't mean that he can't behave entirely differently with someone he does care about (making love).  Tootles is right.  He seems hesitant and embarrassed about that story.  And I'm also sure that not every instance of "blowing off steam" with a female turian has happened in that way, not when he seems eager to seduce Shepard with compliments, music, and heck, even a nice headbump.

I can see where your opinion comes from though, because Garrus's story is the only one we have.  But we can't even be sure that experience was rough in the recon scout's quarters.  We only know that it began with violence--the spar.  And again, we also know those two didn't particularly like each other (except physically perhaps).

Edited to add:  If Garrus needed to be rough with a female turian to enjoy himself then I think we can logically discount him ever being completely satisfied with a considerably more squishy human, who wouldn't offer as much, er... "resistance" in certain key parts of the anatomy.   Even with all of Shep's upgrades, serious aggressive behavior from a turian in the bedroom would probably cause permanent damage and pain to her--I mean just look at them.

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 02 juillet 2010 - 05:59 .

[Pacifien]

Cerrydd wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
I've actually seen people be quite dexterous with long nails. The nails simply become an extension of the fingers; rather than press a button with the end of your finger, you press it with the nail.

This is true for me. I feel handicapped when a finger nail broke off and I have to cut it. When I pick up a pen, I use my nails and not my fingers. If I have to pick up a coin off the ground, I use my nails and not my fingers. Typing is done with my nails, not my fingers.

And for my new randomness, I have this image of Garrus looking down at his finger with a very irritable and solemn look on his face. I present a story in emoticon.

Shepard: Garrus, what's wrong?
Garrus: I broke a nail. <_<
Shepard:
Garrus: How am I supposed to calibrate now?
Shepard: With you're fingers?
Garrus: It hurts, Shepard! 
Shepard: Oh it's just a nail, Garrus! Suck it up, soldier!
Garrus:
Shepard: I can kiss it and make it better.
Garrus:
Shepard:
Garrus:
Shepard: Now get back to work.
Garrus: But it still hurts! I think that last kiss was only temporary healing!

[Brian619]

Ah! so here is where you guys are! many thank yous to Chimewera(hope i got the name correct) for leaving a link to this new thread! anyway,congratz on the new thread!

[Tootles FTW]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Again turians are people, not animals.  One night of wild sex with someone he clearly didn't like emotionally (hate sex!) doesn't mean that he can't behave entirely differently with someone he does care about (making love).  Tootles is right.  He seems hesitant and embarrassed about that story.  And I'm also sure that not every instance of "blowing off steam" with a female turian has happened in that way, not when he seems eager to seduce Shepard with compliments, music, and heck, even a nice headbump.

Yay! I get a "Brass_Buckles Approves +12"! 

I also agree with your "anger/jealousy/stalking is okay, but only when it comes from a man" argument. The flip-side of the gender coin also annoys me, though.  Haters love to bring up how Garrus or Kaidan whine about their problems, but they're silent when it comes to Liara or Tali.  When Tali or Liara speak, it's a discussion about their concerns.  When Garrus speaks, it's baseless complaining?  Apparently having an honest and mature discussion about your problems with your friend/commanding officer is solely a female's prerogative.

[Cerrydd]

Sorry, going a few pages back, but...

kglaser wrote...

Cerrydd! Grunt is here!

Aaaaahhhhh this pic just got more awesome!

[Bugsie]

@tootles - sorry for you to get the wrong end of the stick - its perfectly ok for you to not like turian kissing!! I was trying to be a bit of a peacemaker as I was worried that it might turn into a "this is right" and "this is wrong" discussion on turian biology and depictions in ff. As Stephi said a few buttons have been pushed tonight (in another thread, and no I wasn't the one upset - though like I said I'm thick skinned - haaaaa like a turian perhaps?)

And BC - I welcome strong opinions, even if they might differ from my own. Personally I consider myself to be a very out there feminist, I work in field that is dominated by men, and maybe there crudeness has rubbed of on me. But I draw the line at depictions of sexual violence, Garrus could never be violent in that respect. Wild yes, and playfully rough with a consenting partner yes, a few nips here or there, very smexy indeed (IMHO).  Language doesnt upset me either - I barely notice it sometimes (maybe not a good thing) thats what comes from hanging around a bunch of farmers.

Modifié par Buggirl70, 02 juillet 2010 - 06:15 .

[Brian619]

Hell yeah!! nice "Family" picture u got here Cerrydd! *saved*! thanks!

[Brass_Buckles]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Again turians are people, not animals.  One night of wild sex with someone he clearly didn't like emotionally (hate sex!) doesn't mean that he can't behave entirely differently with someone he does care about (making love).  Tootles is right.  He seems hesitant and embarrassed about that story.  And I'm also sure that not every instance of "blowing off steam" with a female turian has happened in that way, not when he seems eager to seduce Shepard with compliments, music, and heck, even a nice headbump.

Yay! I get a "Brass_Buckles Approves +12"! 

I also agree with your "anger/jealousy/stalking is okay, but only when it comes from a man" argument. The flip-side of the gender coin also annoys me, though.  Haters love to bring up how Garrus or Kaidan whine about their problems, but they're silent when it comes to Liara or Tali.  When Tali or Liara speak, it's a discussion about their concerns.  When Garrus speaks, it's baseless complaining?  Apparently having an honest and mature discussion about your problems with your friend/commanding officer is solely a female's prerogative.

I'm glad someone else gets my point.  I mean it's okay to like this kind of thing in fics if you're aware you wouldn't actually like being treated like that in real life.  But yeah, I think if Garrus is "whiny," then he certainly earned the right after losing his personal idol, then losing ten friends, and then finally nearly dying.  I also think that he's probably emotionally unstable (explaining the violence toward Harkin when he explicitly says at other times that he doesn't see the point in torture--post traumatic stress?) after Omega, another reason I think it's more humane to Garrus to let Sidonis live.  Garrus is still emotionally unstable and there's no good reason to push him over the edge.  So yes, I feel like Paragon-Shep is right in pointing out that Garrus isn't acting like himself, that he's becoming something he doesn't want to be.  I believe the devs meant for his anger to be disturbing, even though it's understandable.  And then he does something he'd never do before, torturing Harkin.  Let's face it, even if he doesn't like Harkin, even if Harkin deserves it, if he can do that to Harkin, and he can contemplate killing Sidonis in cold blood, then it's bad news for Shep if she ever crosses him by accident before Garrus gets his act back together.  That's not hot.  That's scary--the idea that someone you implicitly trust like Shep does Garrus might turn on you someday over a disagreement, such as your method of getting the job done not meshing with his idea of how you should do it.  Much as I love the Garrus romance?  I can definitely see him, especially as a renegade, betraying Shepard.  I don't like the idea, but I can see it happening, much like with Wrex on Virmire--you can talk him out of it, or you can kill him.

I also will note that I think Kaidan is unnecessarily long-winded, but I don't think of him as whiny either.  I just think his brain camp convos could've been sliced up into about three more, smaller conversations.

Most male fans of Garrus would like to have more conversations with him, including about his problems.  You know, in a way it even makes sense that guys would talk to each other about their problems with their closest friends more than they would with a female friend, though I am hoping Garrus will open up more in ME3 in general and after being romanced especially.

Another thing that gets me is that in the ME universe, with cybernetics and gene enhancements taken into consideration, people still whine that male and female Shepard are basically the same character in terms of ability.  Yes, I know men are stronger than women in the real world, but we don't have cyborgs and gene enhanced super soldiers either.  And let's not forget the overemphasis on certain feminine assets.  I'll admit they did the same for Jacob, but apparently the female devs didn't get much say about that character or surely he'd be less cringeworthy.  He's nice enough otherwise, but I'm very hesitant to ever romance him no matter how great his abs are.  Shepard will never be anyone's "prize."  At least Miranda can become somewhat likeable over time.  (Trustworthy?  Never.  But she's not a hundred percent horrible either.)

[Tootles FTW]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I believe the devs meant for his anger to be disturbing, even though it's understandable.  And then he does something he'd never do before, torturing Harkin.  Let's face it, even if he doesn't like Harkin, even if Harkin deserves it, if he can do that to Harkin, and he can contemplate killing Sidonis in cold blood, then it's bad news for Shep if she ever crosses him by accident before Garrus gets his act back together.  That's not hot.  That's scary--the idea that someone you implicitly trust like Shep does Garrus might turn on you someday over a disagreement, such as your method of getting the job done not meshing with his idea of how you should do it.  Much as I love the Garrus romance?  I can definitely see him, especially as a renegade, betraying Shepard.  I don't like the idea, but I can see it happening, much like with Wrex on Virmire--you can talk him out of it, or you can kill him.

I think the disconnect here in regards to the Harkin situation comes down to the fact that I don't view it as torture.  Torture is disturbing (and possibly involves nipple clamps) but the Harkin scene, for me, wasn't torture - it was a justifiable roughing up on par with any cop movie.  It's not the "correct" response when viewed in hindsight by most rational, law-abiding citizens, but Harkin is hardly a figure that elicits sympathy considering that he just tried to murder you.  We've seen Shep (albeit Renegade Shep) behave in a similar fashion, and even Captain Anderson in ME1 punches out an unarmed Udina; but in these instances I don't think we're meant to think too much about it, since we're not supposed to like these characters and thus it's "okay" for them to suffer.

I can agree with you when it comes to Garrus taking it that one step further by trying to shoot him in the leg - it was supposed to be a shocking moment for both Garrus and the PC.  However, I still don't think I'd call that torture, just a disturbing moment of rage.

Garrus betraying Shep, though? Never (in my opinion, of course!!). As one of the devs said, he is the perfect example of a compassionate renegade; even if you do allow him to kill Sidonis it doesn't fundamentally change who he is - he acts the same way throughout the rest of the game as he would if you paragon'd his loyalty mission.

[Cerrydd]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Garrus betraying Shep, though? Never (in my opinion, of course!!). As one of the devs said, he is the perfect example of a compassionate renegade; even if you do allow him to kill Sidonis it doesn't fundamentally change who he is - he acts the same way throughout the rest of the game as he would if you paragon'd his loyalty mission.

We've been able to agree/disagree with him in two personal missions now - Saleon and Sidonis. I always see killing Sidonis as reinforcing the way he thinks now, and sparing Sidonis as encouraging to change the way he thinks now. You already got different dialogue during his LM, depending on your (dis)agreement with killing Saleon. Even though it doesn't affect him at all during the rest of ME2, I really hope the devs will somehow implement this in ME3. It could slightly change his personality or ways of thinking, since we've been 'mentoring' him for two games now. Let's see how that affects him ME3.

However, I don't ever see Garrus betraying Shepard at all, renegade or paragon. As Collider always says, Garrus sees the bigger picture. He knows what has to be done. The Reapers are a threat to the entire galaxy and Garrus will do anything to stop this. He was even willing to take the risk to kill the hostages on Saleon's ship to stop that crazy doctor, and that was even a smaller case. I think you'll have to do something extraordinary to make him turn on you, like... helping the Reapers win. But I doubt that's a possibility in ME3.

edit:

silentstephi wrote...

Oh and archive is updated to page 600. /flops The 500s we got our troll cherry popped. And there was lots of silly with Solt and Flammie. XD Plus it's where Cerry got her Limerick Queen title. XD

Haaa I found my megalimerick back. I should make a new one to fit everybody in. But oh lord I'm lazy... and it's extremely hot... and I have to fulfill my quest of finding my tweezer...

Modifié par Cerrydd, 02 juillet 2010 - 08:01 .

[Tootles FTW]

Cerrydd wrote...

However, I don't ever see Garrus betraying Shepard at all, renegade or paragon. As Collider always says, Garrus sees the bigger picture. He knows what has to be done. The Reapers are a threat to the entire galaxy and Garrus will do anything to stop this. He was even willing to take the risk to kill the hostages on Saleon's ship to stop that crazy doctor, and that was even a smaller case. I think you'll have to do something extraordinary to make him turn on you, like... helping the Reapers win. But I doubt that's a possibility in ME3.

Haha, yea, in that instance I can see where Garrus might question Shep's logic.

It makes me very grateful that Garrus wasn't involved in any of that Tali/Legion, Miranda/Jack nonsense.  If I were a Talimancer I would be extremely pissed that my main LI could be made to seem so fickle and short-sighted.  Miranda, Jack, and Legion...okay, sure; and even in Tali's case I can understand the reasoning behind her anger, but I can't condone the loss of loyalty considering your history.  So thank you, Bioware, for NOT including this Garrus content - it would ruin his character for me if I even knew it was a possible option.

[Nilfalasiel]

Oh wow, lots going on in here!

Ok, one thing at a time: I didn't think that football pic could get better, but it just did. Jack is perfect, and I love the fact that Miranda is just turning her back on all of it. Works with her personality and the way her ummm...gender-based assets were used in the game

All those romance logistics discussions:

- We've mentioned in Clan V. that, while "regular", mouth-to-mouth kissing would most likely not work with a turian, entwining tongues might do. Especially since turians have a long tongue. In fact, it would be a handy alternative to kissing between two turians too. Assuming whatever they have at the front of their mouths (teeth or anything else) wouldn't get in the way.

- I don't get the biting either. If turians had incisors, it might work, but all they seem to have are extremely sharp canines. And even accounting for turian skin, I think it would hurt A LOT, even between two turians, let alone between a turian and a human, even a cybernetically enhanced one. A little bit of pain can work very well, but that just seems like it would be way past any threshold but the most hardcore one. 

- Concerning rough sex, Garrus' experience with the scout definitely seems to have been rough because of the circumstances. It was anger sex, not anything romantic. However, I don't think he's embarrassed by the fact that it was rough. He seems pretty calm when talking about it, as if it was nothing out of the ordinary. I just think he's a little self-conscious that he's mentioning it to his commanding officer. Yes, they're friends, but he's never talked about this kind of thing with Shep before, Male or Female. Bottom line: I don't think all turians always need to have it rough to be satisfied. It's just that, in the specific context of anger sex, that's what is most likely to happen (for humans too, actually). I can perfectly see Garrus being more gentle with Shep, and not just because he's afraid to hurt her.

- The purring. I don't think that what's meant is actual purring. It's just that Garrus happens to have a rumble in his voice (quite a few turians do, actually, it's probably got to do with the flanging), and purring is a fitting image to describe that effect. I know I've used the term before, and that was precisely the kind of effect I meant. Not the kind of purring you'd actually hear from a cat.

- I must admit to finding Garrus' aggressiveness sexy on a fantasy level (I agree with Tootles on the Harkin scene). Would I want him to get violent with Shep? Of course not, but some fantasies are meant to STAY fantasies. The potential for aggressiveness in a man is a turn on to quite a few women, but that doesn't mean they actually want the violence to happen to them. It's the bad boy appeal, and yes, it's very primal. Harkens back to the image of the typical dominant male. So if it works with a human male, it would also work with a turian male.

- The allergy talk. We've discussed this before: it's just a risk. It's not 100% guaranteed that Shep will get anaphylactic shock, I don't think it's even 50%. Mordin just mentions it because, well, there's a small chance that it can happen, just as there's a small chance of any allergy happening. Not everyone who eats peanut butter for the first time will have an allergic reaction to it. Not everyone who kisses a turian for the first time will go into shock. Especially not a cybernetically enhanced someone. So I think Shep can go ahead and mix fluids without being overly concerned. Same for the chafing. Just use some massage oil. I'm not saying that human-turian intercourse will necessarily be better than human-human intercourse, but it doesn't have to automatically be worse or insurmountably uncomfortable either. Plus, there's also a strong suspicion that Mordin might not be entirely serious during his sex talk convo, so he might be exaggerating.

It's a little different with Thane, because, judging by what the Wiki says, the hallucinogenic part seems to be an inherent property of drell skin, and not just to humans. So yeah, sex with Thane seems much more likely to become trippy than sex with Garrus becoming allergy-inducing.

One last thing:

battlechantress wrote...

I don't see it happening.  Virmire's heat and humidity might remind him of Palaven, but I don't think Palaven got much rain.  If it did, would turians really need those plates?

The plates are meant to protect against radiation, but rain and high radiation levels aren't mutually exclusive. Radiation can pass through clouds.

But even assuming it didn't rain often on Palaven, I can see rain being pleasantly refreshing to a turian. While they've adapted to the heat, they don't necessarily seem to find it pleasant.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 juillet 2010 - 09:32 .

[Collider]

It's not as if Tali is leaving Shepard's squad. "Loyalty" in Mass Effect 2 is not actually always "loyalty."

If it was, then Garrus wouldn't be loyal to Shepard even after you save his life. As we all know, Garrus was still loyal to Shepard.

It's not that Tali and Garrus aren't loyal unless you do their loyalty missions, it's that they are more "focused" on the mission if you do. That's what "loyalty" in the game really is. "Loyal" just sounds better than "focused," that's why they use it. Garrus thinking about Sidonis or Tali thinking about her exiling (or about how Shepard sided with Legion and endangered her people) distracts them. They are still loyal to the mission, it's just they make mistakes when they are thinking "that bastard Sidonis is still out there and he might get away," etc.

I would also say that I actually like that you can lose Tali's "loyalty" doing things she doesn't approve of. It shows that she's not going to jeopardize her people's safety or her principles for anyone.

Neither does Garrus, of course - he is very defiant against Shepard if she insists on saving Sidonis in the beginning. She is literally the only reason why Garrus did not pull the trigger - because she got in the way and showed Garrus that Sidonis is already dead.

Modifié par Collider, 02 juillet 2010 - 09:21 .

[Tootles FTW]

I understand what you mean, but the end result is that Tali dies in the SM unless you have enough paragon/renegade points to persuade her back to "loyal". I find this to be ignorant thinking from Tali after what we've discovered of the geth in ME2; personally, I found the majority of quarians to be incredibly shady throughout much of the game.



Buuuuut, Garrus!

[Nilfalasiel]

Tootles FTW wrote...

I understand what you mean, but the end result is that Tali dies in the SM unless you have enough paragon/renegade points to persuade her back to "loyal". I find this to be ignorant thinking from Tali after what we've discovered of the geth in ME2; personally, I found the majority of quarians to be incredibly shady throughout much of the game.

Well, you kinda have to put yourself in Tali's shoes too. After centuries of being essentially intergalactic gypsies, it's understandable that the quarians feel suspicious of geth. Tali doesn't even know what the quarian homeworld looks like. Remember that you recruit Legion last, and that, aside from his LM, you don't have much time to get to know it. I can understand that Tali wouldn't trust everything it says on simple faith. It's hard to be objective when you're looking at the reason why your entire species has been exiled, even if your species is also to blame. Even if it's telling you it means well, what's stopping it from lying? And Legion DID start transmitting sensitive data about the quarians to the geth. That would definitely warrant suspicion if I were Tali. Especially considering she just lost her father to a geth assault (even if it was his own damn fault) and was tried for being suspected of bringing geth onto the Fleet. Shepard can be objective because she/he isn't directly involved in the geth problematic. It would be much more difficult for Tali, because she must also consider the interests of her people.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:14 .

[Collider]

I find this to be ignorant thinking from Tali after what we've discovered of the geth in ME2;

How so? Both Legion and Tali knew that if the location of the Flotilla was given to Legion, there would inevitably be a war. Legion himself says that the "creators will answer for their crimes," which would imply that he and the geth would attack the Quarians (given the fact that the Geth have never attempted to even talk to the Quarians after the morning war, they just attack the Quarians) if they knew where the Migrant Fleet was.

I don't feel that Tali being angry if Shepard sides with Legion is ignorant, it's caring about the welfare of her people - an entire race. If she had been ignorant, then she would have never been willing to cooperate with Legion at all. Given the fact that Legion is the only indication that the Geth want peace, it's pretty open minded of Tali to be willing to work with him.

Not to mention the fact that Legion had instigated the whole ordeal in the first place - he is hacking her personal property. In several parts of the world, that is illegal, and for good reason. That is theft.

Buuuuut, Garrus!

Indeed.

Modifié par Collider, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:20 .

[Collider]

Anyways - Garrus.

I don't see Garrus betraying Shepard. I am not even really sure where the idea comes from. I suppose it's the fact that you can renegade Garrus - but even then it's not like you are fundamentally changing him. "Renegading" Garrus is literally just agreeing with what his opinion already was.

The only way I could see Garrus betraying Shepard would if Shepard did something horribly immoral. Renegade Shepard can be quite the jerk (doesn't have to be though), but there's not quite anything that would warrant Garrus killing Shepard over. If there some stupid option like siding with the Reapers or something, I guess Garrus would "betray" Shepard then ;/

Modifié par Collider, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .