29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazzel42]

I don't know. Kuril seems to have gotten into the running the prison to clean up the galaxy initially since he was fed up with criminals getting away. I kind of thought he might have started out with good intentions and then slid. I don't think Garrus would have slid as far, but I do think it's possible he would could have gone down a similar path. He did approve of the set-up initially, though I'm sure being set-up didn't improve his opinion of things :-P

[ciaweth]

Kuril seemed to me like a guy who had started out with a desire for justice that was similar to Garrus', but who had then veered terribly off course into money grubbing and unacceptable treatment of prisoners. Kuril tells himself it's still all about justice because that's what helps him sleep at night, imho.



I can't see Garrus approving of getting rich off the sale of prisoners, nor of routine torture. Garrus' style is more along the lines of putting a bullet in someone's head ASAP, or, as we saw from the dossiers, a symbolic assassination.

[Hazzel42]

No I can't see him ever ending up as low down as Kuril. I guess he'd have been more likely to end up as a bounty hunter type. Taking care of a prison full of inmates would involve too much paper work even if it was an unofficial one. Hmm. Was just idle speculation and a moot point since it didn't happen.

[Aricle]

Eradyn: I hadn't thought about that in quite that way, as far as Garrus' having done all the thinking time allowed in the Saleon situation. So all of the dialogue options for Shepard to question his decision there are, what? Her/his paragon naivete? I know I objected to it each time- objecting to Sidonis had to do with wanting Garrus to not make killing for revenge a habit etc and after hearing Sidonis' story. About Saleon: It just felt wrong for both of my Shepards- the one who is 'me' and the one who did things by the books.



Raga: I agree, very much the opposite of impulsive on Garrus' part, now that I'm looking at it again. Cool, one of the big Garrus morality points, getting to think about it differently! I've been renegaded, .

[Aricle]

Mmhm, that makes sense. I grok that more, for he does think about what paragon Shep says carefully despite his objections. Interesting- if you believe in the multiple intelligences theory, Garrus' kinesthetic/strategic intelligence is very high. Me? I'd be analyzing that one a while or falling back on my instinct to avoid danger to life in the absence of time to think. Although, my gut reaction was to focus on eliminating Sovereign so if the Saleon situation were one I was in, I might make the same call.



The fact that Shep and Garrus can make each other think about things from a new angle is one of the best parts of their relationship. I want to see him make her think about some of her assumptions/beliefs in the final chapter. I know he does- I want to see it outside of my head canon.

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Actually, I did just think of one instance you could maybe interpret Garrus as impulsive. If you tell him down for shooting when he saves Dr. Michel, he acts all flustered and says something like "There wasn't time. I didn't think. I just reacted" and then he asks Michel how she is. Granted, he didn't miss and he took out the thug so his reaction was still okay, but it does make it sound like he just acted and then is actually a little alarmed at what he did. He also concedes the various points that paragon Shep makes, but I don't think that's because he never thought and considered before. It's more like he had never thought about it from that specific angle before rather than he never considered it at all.

That's definitely impulsiveness there. And I do think he might not necessarily have thought that disabling Saleon's ship might cause it to malfunction and crash onto the Citadel. Because yes, all they needed to do was disable the ship, not blow it up. But what happens when you disable a ship? It crashes. Whereas Garrus seems to think that the idea there might have been collateral damage is completely ludicrous.

And he does make some hasty decisions and judgments. When he tells you that he's worried that Saren might get away and that you shouldn't give him a chance, and Shepard explains that, if they kill him, they'll never know his motives. Garrus has very obviously not thought about that at all. He says "you have a point...but do you really think there's anything to know? apart from the fact that he's a raving lunatic?" He's not even willing to consider that Saren might have a method to his madness. If that's not impulsiveness, then it is, at the very least, hasty dismissal.

Same thing for Sidonis, if you Paragon the decision. Beforehand, Garrus says "I don't care what his reasons are, he needs to pay". But after hearing Sidonis out, he relents and says that there was still good in him. Obviously, he never considered the possibility that Sidonis might not have willingly betrayed the team, that he was coerced into it. This reason is enough to make him stand down. So again, hasty judgment. He let his anger and his insecurity (the whole business is at least as much about Garrus being angry at himself and seeing Sidonis as a result of his own carelessness as about the hard facts of what Sidonis did) cloud the possibility that there might be more to the story than just plain betrayal.

Of course, that only works on the Paragon path.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 19 septembre 2010 - 12:50 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I think Garrus is pretty smart in general actually. I mean all those "algorithms" this and "calibrations" that probably involve some math. Granted he has a computer to help him, but if you stop and think he is very skilled in lots of areas. He's charismatic which means he is good at reading people and assigning people to roles on a team. He's great at tactics. He's techy. He can fix things and build things and even hack and decrypt. He's good at investigation and solving problems by analysis. He'd have to be to be a good cop. Garrus is pretty sharp. It's not really book smarts, but he's certainly above average I would say.

Now that, I don't doubt. But I do think that when he gets emotional about an issue (Saleon, Saren, Dr. Michel, Sidonis), it can override his better judgment, to a certain extent. Or cloud it, if you prefer. He's prone to choosing the most expedient way out, which is not always the safest one.

[Aricle]

I don't imagine him reading books much- that's why I mentioned the multiple intelligences because he's so good at so many things outside of the scope of book learning.



Tangent: I really like Kasumi's saying she likes to have the actual books in her cabin. I love books and reading- I can't imagine reading off of a datapad (or iPad). That may change someday but for now, I'm a book person. I like the ex-library books with the stamps inside telling where they're from and who checked them out and when.

[Aricle]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
It's not the results that Shep argues with him about but rather the process by which he gets his results

This process is really the heart of the whole game for me (Shep's decision process). The roleplaying has been bringing this home.

I always called Garrus impulsive b/c it seemed to me that he acted so quickly and without thinking. I see it differently now in that he had thought out some of it beforehand- yet he does still proceed to act without looking at another p.o.v. (Don't we all at one time or another?) It seems to me that Garrus got into an almost-oppositional mindframe with C-Sec esp. after the Saleon incident, probably making it harder for him to get a different p.o.v. I wonder how many people have talked out things with him instead of telling him what he could and couldn't do? Not many, I bet, before Shepard. He hopes at first that Shepard is going to be someone who lets him take the actions he wants, without a lot of red tape- he connects that freedom to being a Spectre but also sees that as dangerous with Saren. Shepard talks things out with him or tries to do so even if it's to agree with him in the end. If I end up agreeing with Garrus, I still question as many pieces as possible to make a more in-depth conversation and discussion.

Modifié par Aricle, 19 septembre 2010 - 01:40 .

[Bugsie]

I like the idea of a Garrus/Thane friendship, I think it's an unusual pairing but I think it would work (well my inner fangirl WANTS it to work).



In regard to Kuril, I don't think there is much of a back story relating to whether he had honorable intentions to start with (I mean he is a Blue Sun isn't he?) Would make for an interesting fanfic.

[ciaweth]

Buggirl70 wrote...

I like the idea of a Garrus/Thane friendship, I think it's an unusual pairing but I think it would work (well my inner fangirl WANTS it to work).

I think it could totally work.  They both respect competence, and are both highly competent.  The trick for me is that I don't see them becoming friends over some long heart-to-heart, but rather by going and doing stuff together and not talking.  Missions, probably.  With sniper rifles.

[Hazzel42]

I think the fact that Garrus wants reasons for decisions and orders might be why he doesn't consider himself a very good Turian. I'm guessing that if they are as militaristic a society as they seem that they are brought up to follow the chain of command and do what they're told when they're told even if they don't know why. I kind of feel that his questioning everything is actually a demonstration of his intelligence and fierce spirit.

[Bugsie]

Hazzel42 wrote...

I think the fact that Garrus wants reasons for decisions and orders might be why he doesn't consider himself a very good Turian. I'm guessing that if they are as militaristic a society as they seem that they are brought up to follow the chain of command and do what they're told when they're told even if they don't know why. I kind of feel that his questioning everything is actually a demonstration of his intelligence and fierce spirit.

One of the reasons I can't but help admire and  that turian.

In regard to Thane/Garrus friendship, I imagine them to have an easy banter, and a mutual respect for each other.  Heart to hearts, well that sort of thing between men takes time and they are two very different men, they do have some fundamental values in common though.  I mean Shep aside, they care for the downtrodden, both are almost patron saints of lost causes in a way too.

[Hazzel42]

Hmm Thane and Garrus. I think it is totally possible that they would become good friends, but I think it would take a very long time. I can see them being exceedingly polite and very civil for a long time and gradually relaxing into more personal exchanges and mellowing. I'm not sure I could see them heading out to the bar for drinks and chats about ex girlfriends some how, Thane seems a bit too stiff to me for that.

[Bugsie]

Yeah they are both reserved in their own way, but sometimes the best friendships are slow building, they lack the volatility that more rapid friendships can sometimes have.