29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedpickle]

This is from a page or so back, but it's weird that no names sound asari, I figured there'd at least be one.

Maybe maaaaaybe Melanis, but it's a stretch. (if said more girly, haha, kinda like Nyxeris)

I also thought Sensat could sound Salarian. : >

Modifié par Pedpickle, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:34 .

[JulianP]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

JulianP wrote...
Garrus' occasional need to go and personally punish the unworthy is, I think, tied to this.  He's a guy who ultimately will take the time to examine and judge himself. He takes on the responsibility of punishing himself when he feels that he has done wrong.  When other people do wrong and are let off the hook by both the lawful authorities and their own brazen consciences, he hates it.  Seeing that Sidonis does in fact punish himself helps him to back down from the need to do it for him. 

I like this idea.  A lot.

That's what happens when you try to write Septimus dialogue and then realize you've been writing Garrus

[kglaser]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Sialater wrote...
*shiver* I heard that line last night.  Damn, BK sounds like ICE when he says it.

Does it make me a sick, twisted person that my reaction is more like *swoon* than *shiver*?

Yup.  And it makes me even sicker and more twisted that I have the same response when he tells Harkin he's just going to slow him down a little.

[kglaser]

That scene is beyond awesome. It is so awesome I made my kids watch it (after a disclaimer about how they should never actually step on anyone's neck or headbutt them, LOL)

And yeah, I reeeallly savored Harkin's sleazy bar come-ons in ME1 this time 'round, so I could enjoy watching that scene...muahaha!!

[kglaser]

I agree Ragabul...I would have agreed earlier, but I was so far behind in the thread, I couldn't answer when you said it before. I also couldn't see all those great pics JulianP took until I got my PC back from my kids and their friends. I really should have Assumed Direct Control of it sooner....

[Bugsie]

I ran across a somewhat infuriating posting by someone the other day, but better judgement caused me not to respond till I had calmed down a bit. One of the comments made was that, Garrus fans obviously didn’t think too much about retributive justice aspect of his character. Storm in a teacup later I, I began to think more clearly about this idea and Garrus’s character.



If anything that has struck me about Garrus and his loyalty mission is his Old Testament attitude about crime and punishment. For me personally it is one that I originally felt most conflicted. I spent quite a bit of my youth agonising over the idea of retributive justice, the notion that if it wasn’t directly an eye for an eye it wasn’t ‘true’ punishment. I learnt over time though that this notion is somewhat absurd, considering that different people, depending on their relation to the offending or offender, will view the ‘required’ punishment differently, and in this instance what ‘punishment fits the crime’ is somewhat subjective.



I think Garrus ideas on justice are constricted by his interpretation that the 1) lawful authorities do nothing (or nothing fitting) or that 2) when they do, the criminals show little or no remorse, and as Julian says, Garrus hates this. Garrus has military background, then moved into law enforcement, he only sees criminals as unremorseful scum, and if its not eye for an eye it’s not ‘punishment’, He sees he can fight this only one way, by vigilante action. However when he is shown that the kind of punishment Sidonis is enduring is ongoing and psychological, that Sidonis is willing to “make things right” this then transforms into ‘restorative justice’ and Garrus is satisfied, to an extent, you almost have to try and convince him that it’s not a ‘soft justice’ your enabling, Sidonis doesn’t escape punishment, its just a different sort of punishment. Garrus has, up till that point, given no thought what so ever to any mitigating circumstances. If your Shep is paragon, she shows him a different sort of justice can be enacted, if renegade you confirm for Garrus that Old Testament way of thinking is right.



Thoughts?

[Tea h2o]

Delurking to say damn you guys burn through these pages fast. I'm still on 56. Anyways moar Garrus for everyone. 
fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/263/5/3/are_you_for_real__by_gigagigglefitz-d2z5ljq.jpg
I hope the link works, let me know if it doesn't.
Actually, if someone could be nice enough to tell me how to link that would be great, cause i'm totally not getting it.

Modifié par Tea h2o, 21 septembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[Bugsie]

Tea h2o wrote...

Delurking to say damn you guys burn through these pages fast. I'm still on 56. Anyways moar Garrus for everyone. 



I hope the link works, let me know if it doesn't.
Actually, if someone could be nice enough to tell me how to link that would be great, cause i'm totally not getting it.

Tea h20 - for images {img} location {/img}  - just remove the spaces and change { } to [ ]

Modifié par Buggirl70, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:10 .

[JulianP]

[quote]Buggirl70 wrote...
 I spent quite a bit of my youth agonising over the idea of retributive justice, the notion that if it wasn’t directly an eye for an eye it wasn’t ‘true’ punishment.
[/quote]

Me too, and to be honest, it's still a struggle.  E.g.  I had an ex-boyfriend who IMHO treated me badly and then went on despite (or partly because of?  I wish!) my feedback to get the girl of his dreams he'd always held a torch for and treat her right.  So part of me is all "why do the wicked prosper?" and feeling that the ex doesn't deserve his the apparent happiness he now has, and at moments it can feel like the new relationship ought to be doomed and the perpetrator smitten by Heaven or some such thing.

But then I think about it and realize that the justice I really want is not really the external misfortunes and smiting.  Nothing I or anyone else can do to punish the guy could possibly force him to be him appropriately sorry for what he did.  I've also found, partly from personal experience, that living with guilt and with the true understanding of the horror of what you've done is incredibly painful.  In addition, only a person who is truly sorry is going to change, and they're not going to be able to even begin to "make up for" the damage they did in the world if they don't change.  I often want to punish because I know I can't make people change inside, but if there's a Hell, then I imagine it's where Hitler looks his crimes in the eye and can't run away screaming... and has to change.

That's the beauty of the Paragon end of the Garrus loyalty quest.


[/quote]

Modifié par JulianP, 21 septembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Tea h2o]

Thanks buggirl!

[JulianP]

Tea h2o wrote...

Anyways moar Garrus for everyone. 



I hope the link works, let me know if it doesn't.

That is so cute!  Did you draw that?  

I've always thought that they must surely file their nails or maybe dip them in some sort of polymer coating to prevent scratching everything up.  Every vacation I come home from spending time with my family's two parrots with my hands and arms covered in tiny scratches.  No wonder the turians are always wearing gloves!

[Pokket Mowse]

Turian Romance

[ciaweth]

Pokket Mowse wrote...


Turian Romance

Heehee!  I hadn't seen that one before!

[Bugsie]

Justice, or punishment, in this case has to fit several agendas, one that the victim is satisfied that their complaint has been acknowledged and dealt with appropriately, that government/court is satisfied that their laws have been obeyed and as a warning to others, society is satisfied that offenders have been punished ‘appropriately’, and finally that the offender has a sense that they have been treated fairly (or those supporting them feel that way)

Too often though we find that one voice out of those is ever truly listened too and as a consequence people will feel aggrieved.

Garrus is not happy, he sees that only one side is being listened too, vigilantism is his only way of solving the dilemma. And yes the beauty of paragon in this instance is making him see the other without the burden of emotion (Shep playing the voice of reason in this instance.)

I have often felt ‘outraged’ about certain things I’ve seen or felt in regard to crime/punishment (emotional, gut reaction), but in more circumspect moments I become more contemplative and willing to see a range of solutions to a problem. I think Garrus is similar in that regard.

As a consequence I can never renegade Garrus, as I believe (and in my heart, my version of Garrus is the same) there is always more than one solution to a problem.

EDIT: OMG that comic is pure win!!

Modifié par Buggirl70, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[JulianP]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
 I paragon him because it's better than the renegade option of spurring Garrus on in letting his passions dictate his decisions.

I mostly agree! Sometimes I do disagree with Garrus, but I'm not in a position to throw stones when I let the X57 hostages die.   I just want him to do it for the right reasons and in a responsible way. 

[Hazzel42]

I think in some ways by paragoning Garus you teach him that rules are there for a reason and that you have to be very, very sure if you break them that you're doing it for the right reasons. It's like Shepard is there to teach him that he needs to be careful about following his gut feelings and that he needs to think a little bit more logically when things are too close to home. He's mostly got the right idea about fair justice (based on his Turian culture) but his hot head can lead him astray when he lets things become personal.

[kglaser]

Haha! Pocketmowse that comic made me XD...the way Garrus is just sitting there all "meh" while Shepard freaks made me laugh out loud.



And on the subject of justice: it's funny, but just the other day I ran into a sort of moral dilemma (won't bore you all), and I actually found myself applying the advice Shepard gave Garrus about Saleon (paraphrased): "You can't control what other people do, but you can control how you'll react"--I also try to teach that one to my kids, usually. You're only accountable for your own behavior. Hey, it worked for Garrus in that situation and it works for me. It's the old, "If your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you jump too?" thingy. And it still applies.

[Bugsie]

As I said, I think Shep is an older, wiser voice of reason for Garrus, and I think he appreciates that influence.

[praetor_alpha]

Pokket Mowse wrote...

(epic snip)

Turian Romance

last line ROFL

And nice work too. Keep it up.

J4N3_M3 wrote...

on a different note, this came through the Cerberus Daily News on Saturday and I found it quite interesting.

In
a disturbing discovery, two hikers recently found a mass grave on the
planet of Uresium. Investigatorshave now confirmed over 430 skeletal
remains of turian soldiers dating back to the Krogan Rebellions of 749
CE. Recent seismic activity on Uresium exposed the grave, which had been
overgrown by local flora. Turian authorities have begun work with local
colonists to ensure the integrity of the site and its remains. Chief
archaeologist and historian Salur Darikun released a statement saying,
“We will ensure that these sons and daughters of the Turian Hierarchy
are returned home and recognized for their supreme sacrifice.” Darikun
hopes to begin transporting the remains to Palaven early next week, with
a laying-to-rest ceremony planned for later in the month.
Source: CDN

I saw that too. I'm surprised that no one got their artery knicked (or similar) with the Turian attitudes over wartime dead.