Just_mike wrote...
If Garrus has an Incisor Sniper rifle, and you have an Incisor Sniper rifle, Garrus has more bullets than you do.
That sounds like one of the Garrus facts in my sig. I think the one in the sig is about credits though.
Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion
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Chimervera
, juin 26 2010 03:45
#12326
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 06:50
Nilfalasiel
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That sounds like one of the Garrus facts in my sig. I think the one in the sig is about credits though.
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#12327
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:05
General Ashous
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Yep, Garrus would definetly have more bullets. Don't know why, he only needs one per person. He probably only needs one altogether to be honest.
#12328
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:09
Xsause
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Garrus doesn't have to curve his bullets like the people in Wanted. Garrus controls them by will alone.
#12329
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:17
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I wish there were some Ratchet and Clank fans around because if there were this reference would become way funnier than it is on it's lonesome. "If you were down to your last stick of gum, and Garrus Vakarian asked for it, you would give him the gum."
#12330
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:21
oenis
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I personally did not think the Garrusmance lived up to the character but I would like to hear other people's opinions on this matter. It wasn't terrible but it didn't sweep me off my feet either. This may have been due to an overall lack of dialogue, though.
#12331
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:25
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What didn't you like about it? What convinced me it was an actual "romance" instead of blowing off steam, as the characters call it, was when I accidentally dumped Garrus. BK made it sound like my Shep had just ripped Garrus' heart out of chest and tap danced on it.
(I actually thought I was telling him, no matter what, you'll still be my best friend; what came out was, we should totally call this off.)
(I actually thought I was telling him, no matter what, you'll still be my best friend; what came out was, we should totally call this off.)
#12332
Guest_mrsph_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:26
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I kinda wish they bumped Garrus to the second half of the game like they did with Tali. His lack of dialog is just...weird.
#12333
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:35
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Sialater wrote...
What didn't you like about it? What convinced me it was an actual "romance" instead of blowing off steam, as the characters call it, was when I accidentally dumped Garrus. BK made it sound like my Shep had just ripped Garrus' heart out of chest and tap danced on it.
(I actually thought I was telling him, no matter what, you'll still be my best friend; what came out was, we should totally call this off.)
It's not that I didn't like it; I just didn't love it. It's sort of sad that you only find out how emotionally invested Garrus is after you dump him. I think it was really abrupt too how it went from 'im in the middle of calibrations' to wooing. He gives no signs that he might like femshep as anything more than a friend until you proposition him. I would have liked him to take a more dominant approach to a possible relationship, it seems more garrus-y.
#12334
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:40
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Also, oenis, what do you mean by "didn't live up to the character?" Do you mean you found it out of character or just generally underwhelming due to lack of content?
A general analysis of all my opinions of the Garrus romance would be about ten miles long. But I can give you a more targeted response on my opinion on the specific things that concerned you. To sum up why I don't think Garrus romance is clipped or too short. Most of it is contained in subtext. You have to really stop and consider what Garrus statements actually mean. There's lot of implication in what he says and does. Sort of like what Sia said about breaking up with him. He doesn't just say things flat out. It's extremely subtle.
And as for why I don't think it's abrupt or just about sex or whatever, I am reposting a wall of text I wrote about this in Clan Z:
"The main reason is simply because the Garrus romance is built entirely on trust, familiarity, and respect. It's kinda singular in the romances for that reason. It's not built on sexual attraction (at least not at first) or romantic love (again not at first) or even finding the other "intriguing" or "new" or "exotic" or "mysterious." Garrus and Shep are ridiculously strait-forward with each other. They know each other through and through. As Collider has pointed out, the game pretty much assumes Garrus is your best friend. It's impossible to make Shep act like he/she hates Garrus in ME2. The most you can manage is a kind of professionalism. But you can be downright mean to most of the other squaddies. That familiarity is key.
Now lots of people play their Sheps as having some kind of hidden crush on Garrus from the beginning but there is absolutely no in-game reason to support this. Likewise there is no concrete evidence to suggest that Garrus had any kind of real interest up until the point where you jump him. He's utterly shocked by it. (If there is evidence it is very idle flirting that can be passed off as him just poking at Shepard. It's almost more bromancey than flirty just minus the "bro" part.) Now it's also arguable that his "why the hell not" option is amazingly forward and that unless he had some latent interest going on he would never have done that. Nonetheless, even in that moment he still justifies it by saying "there's no one in this galaxy I respect more than you." Friendship and trust is brought up over and over again throughout the whole thing.
My point with that is that an initial "courtship" process with Garrus would have been unbelievably weird. Asking Garrus out to dinner would have been way weirder than soliciting him for sex. A large part of that awkward built up crap of "courtship" is to ascertain if the other person is compatible and good material for a long term relationship. But with Shepard and Garrus they already know each other through and through. They know they are compatible. There's no need for some long weird testing the waters phase that would just be awkward and feature them repeating a bunch of stuff they probably already know. To me the abrupt confrontation makes more sense. It's Shep saying, "hey look, we could work well together. You know that. Wanna try it?" And Garrus responds in kind. All of his nervousness has nothing to do with him thinking Shep isn't a good personality match for him. He's more concerned about derailing the mission and physical compatibility. The morals and personality thing never comes up because he knows it is a understood point. "You're about the only friend I've got left in this screwed up galaxy." "I don't want something closer to home. I want you. I want someone I can trust." The whole romance is just oozing with that. Given all that, I think an abrupt taking it the next level thing makes the most since for them."
A general analysis of all my opinions of the Garrus romance would be about ten miles long. But I can give you a more targeted response on my opinion on the specific things that concerned you. To sum up why I don't think Garrus romance is clipped or too short. Most of it is contained in subtext. You have to really stop and consider what Garrus statements actually mean. There's lot of implication in what he says and does. Sort of like what Sia said about breaking up with him. He doesn't just say things flat out. It's extremely subtle.
And as for why I don't think it's abrupt or just about sex or whatever, I am reposting a wall of text I wrote about this in Clan Z:
"The main reason is simply because the Garrus romance is built entirely on trust, familiarity, and respect. It's kinda singular in the romances for that reason. It's not built on sexual attraction (at least not at first) or romantic love (again not at first) or even finding the other "intriguing" or "new" or "exotic" or "mysterious." Garrus and Shep are ridiculously strait-forward with each other. They know each other through and through. As Collider has pointed out, the game pretty much assumes Garrus is your best friend. It's impossible to make Shep act like he/she hates Garrus in ME2. The most you can manage is a kind of professionalism. But you can be downright mean to most of the other squaddies. That familiarity is key.
Now lots of people play their Sheps as having some kind of hidden crush on Garrus from the beginning but there is absolutely no in-game reason to support this. Likewise there is no concrete evidence to suggest that Garrus had any kind of real interest up until the point where you jump him. He's utterly shocked by it. (If there is evidence it is very idle flirting that can be passed off as him just poking at Shepard. It's almost more bromancey than flirty just minus the "bro" part.) Now it's also arguable that his "why the hell not" option is amazingly forward and that unless he had some latent interest going on he would never have done that. Nonetheless, even in that moment he still justifies it by saying "there's no one in this galaxy I respect more than you." Friendship and trust is brought up over and over again throughout the whole thing.
My point with that is that an initial "courtship" process with Garrus would have been unbelievably weird. Asking Garrus out to dinner would have been way weirder than soliciting him for sex. A large part of that awkward built up crap of "courtship" is to ascertain if the other person is compatible and good material for a long term relationship. But with Shepard and Garrus they already know each other through and through. They know they are compatible. There's no need for some long weird testing the waters phase that would just be awkward and feature them repeating a bunch of stuff they probably already know. To me the abrupt confrontation makes more sense. It's Shep saying, "hey look, we could work well together. You know that. Wanna try it?" And Garrus responds in kind. All of his nervousness has nothing to do with him thinking Shep isn't a good personality match for him. He's more concerned about derailing the mission and physical compatibility. The morals and personality thing never comes up because he knows it is a understood point. "You're about the only friend I've got left in this screwed up galaxy." "I don't want something closer to home. I want you. I want someone I can trust." The whole romance is just oozing with that. Given all that, I think an abrupt taking it the next level thing makes the most since for them."
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 26 septembre 2010 - 08:41 .
#12335
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:41
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Garrus isn't the most emotionally in-touch character. He's a tough guy and he hides behind snarkiness and humor. The most emotional you see him ever is in two scenes: when Shep might have died at the end of ME1 and in the love scene before the O4.
He's a Romantic with a capital "R," not a romantic. Which is fine. The Shepard of mine he ends up with has the emotional maturity of a 15 year old at times. She never met a strong emotion she didn't want to run away from or wrestle into submission.
He's a Romantic with a capital "R," not a romantic. Which is fine. The Shepard of mine he ends up with has the emotional maturity of a 15 year old at times. She never met a strong emotion she didn't want to run away from or wrestle into submission.
#12336
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:44
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Also, oenis, what do you mean by "didn't live up to the character?" Do you mean you found it out of character or just generally underwhelming due to lack of content?
A general analysis of all my opinions of the Garrus romance would be about ten miles long. But I can give you a more targeted response on my opinion on the specific things that concerned you. To sum up why I don't think Garrus romance is clipped or too short. Most of it is contained in subtext. You have to really stop and consider what Garrus statements actually mean. There's lot of implication in what he says and does. Sort of like what Sia said about breaking up with him. He doesn't just say things flat out. It's extremely subtle.
And as for why I don't think it's abrupt or just about sex or whatever, I am reposting a wall of text I wrote about this in Clan Z:
"The main reason is simply because the Garrus romance is built entirely on trust, familiarity, and respect. It's kinda singular in the romances for that reason. It's not built on sexual attraction (at least not at first) or romantic love (again not at first) or even finding the other "intriguing" or "new" or "exotic" or "mysterious." Garrus and Shep are ridiculously strait-forward with each other. They know each other through and through. As Collider has pointed out, the game pretty much assumes Garrus is your best friend. It's impossible to make Shep act like he/she hates Garrus in ME2. The most you can manage is a kind of professionalism. But you can be downright mean to most of the other squaddies. That familiarity is key.
Now lots of people play their Sheps as having some kind of hidden crush on Garrus from the beginning but there is absolutely no in-game reason to support this. Likewise there is no concrete evidence to suggest that Garrus had any kind of real interest up until the point where you jump him. He's utterly shocked by it. (If there is evidence it is very idle flirting that can be passed off as him just poking at Shepard. It's almost more bromancey than flirty just minus the "bro" part.) Now it's also arguable that his "why the hell not" option is amazingly forward and that unless he had some latent interest going on he would never have done that. Nonetheless, even in that moment he still justifies it by saying "there's no one in this galaxy I respect more than you." Friendship and trust is brought up over and over again throughout the whole thing.
My point with that is that an initial "courtship" process with Garrus would have been unbelievably weird. Asking Garrus out to dinner would have been way weirder than soliciting him for sex. A large part of that awkward built up crap of "courtship" is to ascertain if the other person is compatible and good material for a long term relationship. But with Shepard and Garrus they already know each other through and through. They know they are compatible. There's no need for some long weird testing the waters phase that would just be awkward and feature them repeating a bunch of stuff they probably already know. To me the abrupt confrontation makes more sense. It's Shep saying, "hey look, we could work well together. You know that. Wanna try it?" And Garrus responds in kind. All of his nervousness has nothing to do with him thinking Shep isn't a good personality match for him. He's more concerned about derailing the mission and physical compatibility. The morals and personality thing never comes up because he knows it is a understood point. "You're about the only friend I've got left in this screwed up galaxy." "I don't want something closer to home. I want you. I want someone I can trust." The whole romance is just oozing with that. Given all that, I think an abrupt taking it the next level thing makes the most since for them."
QFT. And to expand on that... when you're propositioning your best friend, you really do kinda want to be VERY obvious so as not to cause a misunderstanding.
#12337
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:46
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As for Garrus nervousness. I would say this is because he has more to loose if this goes wrong than pretty much any other LI in the game. He's openly admitted that Shepard is the one he respects most in the whole galaxy and is also "about the only friend I've got left." He does not want to loose that because he messes up a romance and then their friendship sours. He desperately wants it to go right and he is banking a lot on it. I understand why he doesn't act cocky or pushy or is in general not his usual bold self. Also, his confidence really got shot up on Omega. I think Garrus is really questioning himself a lot in ME2 so again, nervousness makes sense to me.
Huh, as an addendum, my Shep doesn't run from strong emotions. She just think they are mostly weaknesses or rather she thinks emotional displays are weaknesses. She's got this "prove it" attitude about everything. She values action over talk. She's more likely to fall for Garrus for being loyal and blunt and dependable than she is for him being emotionally open or affectionate in a conventional sense. The later would just nauseate her.
Huh, as an addendum, my Shep doesn't run from strong emotions. She just think they are mostly weaknesses or rather she thinks emotional displays are weaknesses. She's got this "prove it" attitude about everything. She values action over talk. She's more likely to fall for Garrus for being loyal and blunt and dependable than she is for him being emotionally open or affectionate in a conventional sense. The later would just nauseate her.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 26 septembre 2010 - 08:53 .
#12338
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 08:56
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Heh, Meg's got a messed up history. There's a reason she does what she does.
#12339
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:02
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Yea, my hardass Shep is kinda messed up too. Mindoir/Torfan does that to people. If she had to confront like Thane is his romance scene, she would have to fight to not feel disgust. She'd tell herself it's wrong to feel that way, but she would still feel that way anyway. I was just trying to say that Garrus is compatible with Sheps who are into more conventional strong emotions and not turned off by it. You don't have to be damaged goods to romance Garrus. I think some people here have some pretty normal Shepards who romance him just fine. If you want flowers and chocolates though, he's not the right guy.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:03 .
#12340
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:05
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Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Yea, my hardass Shep is kinda messed up too. If she had to confront like Thane is his romance scene, she would have to fight to not feel disgust. She'd tell herself it's wrong to feel that way, but she would still feel that way anyway. I was just trying to say that Garrus is compatible with Sheps who are into more conventional strong emotions and not turned off by it. You don't have to be damaged goods to romance Garrus. I think some people here have some pretty normal Shepards who romance him just fine. If you want flowers and chocolates though, he's not the right guy.
I agree. Meghan isn't THAT messed up, she's functional, but she has issues. But she's more likely to pat someone on the back, or do the jock "slap on the ass" than give someone a hug. A high-five is an excellent demonstration of effection for her.
Hence why Garrus works better for her.
#12341
Guest_mrsph_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:07
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One of the main reasons I romanced Garrus on my canon Shepard is because a "renegade" Garrus is probably the best fit for a renegade Shepard. Most of her other relationship options are just too nice.
Also I like the idea of a former racist now being in a relationship with a turian of all things
Also I like the idea of a former racist now being in a relationship with a turian of all things
#12342
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:21
oenis
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Why did they end up together then? If Garrus didn't find her attractive at all until that point, how would asking him so abruptly change his mind? Respect/trust are all well and good but there needs to be attraction to transcend friendship to romance, right?
I suppose I would have liked a few additional dialogues to learn more about Garrus and perhaps show a growing intimacy, even if it wasn't sexual in nature. It could have been done very subtly. Not like when Alistair tells the PC she's beautiful or asks how she feels about him; that's not garrus-like. But perhaps share career stories and old adventures that make them realize how much they really enjoy eachother. Something like that, it's just an example. Plus, I would have enjoyed more Garrus badassery anecdotes.
As for Garrus being Shepard's best friend, it isn't all that apparent if you take a paragon approach. Everyone is your best friend. It is a Shepard love fest.
I suppose I would have liked a few additional dialogues to learn more about Garrus and perhaps show a growing intimacy, even if it wasn't sexual in nature. It could have been done very subtly. Not like when Alistair tells the PC she's beautiful or asks how she feels about him; that's not garrus-like. But perhaps share career stories and old adventures that make them realize how much they really enjoy eachother. Something like that, it's just an example. Plus, I would have enjoyed more Garrus badassery anecdotes.
As for Garrus being Shepard's best friend, it isn't all that apparent if you take a paragon approach. Everyone is your best friend. It is a Shepard love fest.
#12343
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:29
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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But garrus is your besterest friend compared to the others.
#12344
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:34
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^Come on, everyone is your best friend. Even Wrex shows Shepard the love! Not to mention Liara, who finds your body. And then the ME2 squad: Miranda wants to be you, you're Thane's first friend in like 10 years, Tali wants to share suits etc etc.
Edited to add: You learn way more about Tali. You go to her fleet, talk to her family friends, learn more about her relationship with her father. It would have been soo cool to go to Palaven.
Edited to add: You learn way more about Tali. You go to her fleet, talk to her family friends, learn more about her relationship with her father. It would have been soo cool to go to Palaven.
Modifié par oenis, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:37 .
#12345
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:40
Homebound
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Nilfalasiel wrote...
Just_mike wrote...
If Garrus has an Incisor Sniper rifle, and you have an Incisor Sniper rifle, Garrus has more bullets than you do.
That sounds like one of the Garrus facts in my sig. I think the one in the sig is about credits though.
Its still true though. If you have an incisor sniper rifle, and Garrus has an incisor sniper rifle, he could have the thing equipped the entire level and not need to pick up thermal clips or anything!
#12346
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:41
Mr.BlazenGlazen
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Well, the lack of dialouge is the writer's fault, not the character's. I think bioware got the idea that people want more garrus.
#12347
Guest_mrsph_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:48
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oenis wrote...
Edited to add: You learn way more about Tali. You go to her fleet, talk to her family friends, learn more about her relationship with her father. It would have been soo cool to go to Palaven.
This is one of my beefs with Garrus as well. We hardly learn anything about his past compared to the other love-interests and I'd really like them to expand upon it in the third game.
The dossier is making me hopeful.
#12348
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 09:51
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Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...
Well, the lack of dialouge is the writer's fault, not the character's. I think bioware got the idea that people want more garrus.
Yes, I said that originally. I love Garrus, but I think his romance could have been better. Garrus is hilarious and badass and I would have liked more of that, as well as more of a transition from friend to LI.
#12349
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 10:22
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oenis wrote...
Why did they end up together then? If Garrus didn't find her attractive at all until that point, how would asking him so abruptly change his mind? Respect/trust are all well and good but there needs to be attraction to transcend friendship to romance, right?
I suppose I would have liked a few additional dialogues to learn more about Garrus and perhaps show a growing intimacy, even if it wasn't sexual in nature. It could have been done very subtly. Not like when Alistair tells the PC she's beautiful or asks how she feels about him; that's not garrus-like. But perhaps share career stories and old adventures that make them realize how much they really enjoy eachother. Something like that, it's just an example. Plus, I would have enjoyed more Garrus badassery anecdotes.
As for Garrus being Shepard's best friend, it isn't all that apparent if you take a paragon approach. Everyone is your best friend. It is a Shepard love fest.
I would say attraction is a start of a conventional romance, but attraction eventually fades into familiarity and comfort. Why do you need to be "attracted" to somebody you are already with? Attraction is about initial curiosity and trying to find chemistry. Once chemistry is attained attraction becomes familiarity and comfort and something less well...tiring and driving. Do you mean does he find her appealing on a physical level? Either he does or it's a moot issue for him because he is willing to proceed based just on his admiration for Shepard's spirit and character. I happen to think he does grow to find her physically appealing but it is something he cultivated because of his admiration for her character. It didn't start in physical attraction as it does for most romances.
Garrus doesn't do conventional intimacy of the verbal or hand-holding variety. That he is willing to risk all of this on you. That he goes through with it even though he admits he doesn't have a fetish for humans, but just Shepard herself implies to me a remarkable amount of specific interest in Shepard and a willingness to sacrifice and slog uphill to make it work. To me that spells dedication and intimacy. It's just not overt. Garrus is pretty much trusting Shepard with everything he has left. That's about as intimate as it gets.
I think the only people who reciprocate Shep's friendship at anywhere near best friend level are Garrus, Tali, and Liara. Of those, two aren't an option if you are a straight Shep. Anybody who romances Garrus is probably going to regard him that way and this argument of him being your best friend is only relevant to people who do romance him. Pretty much if Garrus isn't your best friend than it's hard to approach the romance as anything but a fling. He thinks of Shep as his best friend regardless of what Shep thinks. Shep is leading him on in just about any other case I would say.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 26 septembre 2010 - 10:28 .
#12350
Guest_Raga_*
Posté 26 septembre 2010 - 10:23
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We all agree he needs WAY more dialog. It's just that the dialog he does have is extremely rich. A lot of people pass if off completely because it is short, but it actually packs a lot of punch. More would of course be better. This thread is called Calibrations for a reason. We all want more dialog.
Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 26 septembre 2010 - 10:31 .
