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[Nilfalasiel]

ciaweth wrote...

I want to find out what species the turian councilor's mistress is. If she's not a turian, I sure hope we get the opportunity to use that against any Garrus/Shepard objections he may have.

Yes! I was very surprised when I heard the drone announce the mistress thing. I was like "tsk tsk tsk, Councillor Velarn, you're being naughty".

Although, to be honest, I don't really expect him to be boinking a human. Asari, maybe, but it's more likely to just be another turian.

[Eradyn]

If those on Cerberus' payroll have little problem with Shep and Garrus, most of the populace won't either. Especially when cross-species relationships are seen fairly regularly. Will the most strident speciesist be against it? Sure, but they'd be against even asari relationships...and who really cares what such individuals think?

Garrus' scars helped form a poignant scene in ME2. He is not defined by visible scars. His character would be no more diminished with the healing of scars in ME3 than him wearing a different suit of armor. People are defined by what is within, not without. That said, I don't mind the scars and think them and the cybernetics would make for a more dramatic reunion with his family.

Pointless drama is not required for growth, development, or good storytelling and is, in fact, counterproductive to all the aforementioned. Drama that only mutates or discards a character's character is a travesty and should not be embraced. Struggle and hardship, however, can be excellent springboards for the above without sacrificing the character...or not being true to them. Yes, there is a difference.

Please, BW, do not manufacture such drama with Garrus. Give obstacles to overcome, but please do not "rape" one of your best characters for drama's sake.

Actually, aside from his endless calibrations (which is more the fault of too little voice acting and not a fault of the character) I think BW has done a fantastic job with him...and I only hope they continue to do so. I have faith they will continue along their own planned path for Garrus and not destroy him as a character.

@Ciaweth:
I would die laughing were she human, although I strongly doubt that. I can see Terra Firma and ilk like Talid taking issue, but not most others, with Shep/Garrus.

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 septembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Eradyn wrote...

If those on Cerberus' payroll have little problem with Shep and Garrus, most of the populace won't either. Especially when cross-species relationships are seen fairly regularly. Will the most strident speciesist be against it? Sure, but they'd be against even asari relationships...and who really cares what such individuals think?

That's the thing though: the only cross-species relationships we DO see are asari/another race. There's mention of turian/quarian and human/quarian. But there's no mention of turian/human. I can see Garrus/Shep causing a lot more of a stir than Tali/Shep. And we have no evidence of what the Cerberus crew thinks of the Garrus/Shep relationship. The only person who gives an opinion is Kasumi, and even then "a lot of people want to see you together" is as much a wink to the fanbase as anything else. She could also be referring to the non-Cerberus squaddies.

Pointless drama is not required for growth, development, or good storytelling and is, in fact, counterproductive to all the aforementioned. Drama that only mutates or discards a character's character is a travesty and should not be embraced. Struggle and hardship, however, can be excellent springboards for the above without sacrificing the character...or not being true to them. Yes, there is a difference.

Please, BW, do not manufacture such drama with Garrus. Give obstacles to overcome, but please do not "rape" one of your best characters for drama's sake.

Don't think anybody here would want that. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the other fanbases would want that either. But there are conflicts that are inherent to each character (eg. Tali's devotion to the quarian cause, or Thane's failing health). Similarly, in Garrus' case, it's the impression that everything in his life, apart from his partnership with Shepard has blown up in his face (sometimes literally). I can see his confidence being shaken after that. As a matter of fact, it is shaken. And it's not like a relationship with a whole other species is a self-evident endeavour either.

[lovgreno]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

ciaweth wrote...

I want to find out what species the turian councilor's mistress is. If she's not a turian, I sure hope we get the opportunity to use that against any Garrus/Shepard objections he may have.

Yes! I was very surprised when I heard the drone announce the mistress thing. I was like "tsk tsk tsk, Councillor Velarn, you're being naughty".

Although, to be honest, I don't really expect him to be boinking a human. Asari, maybe, but it's more likely to just be another turian.

It was no suprise at all that Velarn is popular with the women, I mean this is the turian councilour of badassness and awesomeness, one of the three most powerfull persons in the galaxy. As long as he keeps off spiecies like the Yagh and Rachni I suppose his political credibility isn't compromised by a few affairs.

[MrCasperTom]

http://www.ripten.co...light-steph113/

[ciaweth]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
 Would a whole load of awesome stuff be lost if they weren't there? Yes, I think so.

Just for the sake of conversation, what awesome stuff would be lost if Garrus ever had his physical (not psychological) scars healed?

[ciaweth]

MrCasperTom wrote...

http://www.ripten.co...light-steph113/

Isn't that fantastic!  I squee'd, and I'd already seen pictures of that Garrus rig.

[lovgreno]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...Women in the media and in general are more likely to look past physical appearance than men , this is evident everywhere, guys don’t have to constantly look “perfect” for us in order for us to be attracted to them. Look at the response Jacob got and compare it to the response Garrus and Thane got. A non-mass effect player would wonder what the hell was wrong with us, passing up a hunky human for a space grasshopper! We must be crazy right? Well it’s not because like you said, our tastes don't tend to be as vanilla, perfect abs for example, doesn’t equal instant attraction for me at all, a guy who possesses a good sense of humour however, will.

As much as I prefer to argue against generalisations about my gender I have to admit that you are probably right. However I think it's more of a laziness among the game developers to assume that we all want boring cute elf girls (orcs and dwarves are hotter anyway) than something we male consumers are actualy demanding. I mean look how popular Tali is, she is probably more like a turian than a human and we never even get to see her face. But the fans don't care, in fact I think the Tali fans likes that she is not the standard pretty human.
I think it's kind of the same thing with Garrus, though the fact that he is handsome and cool certanly is a welcome bonus of course.

[Eradyn]

ciaweth wrote...

MrCasperTom wrote...

http://www.ripten.co...light-steph113/

Isn't that fantastic!  I squee'd, and I'd already seen pictures of that Garrus rig.

That IS a fantastic cosplay. Major kudos to the creator. Everytime I see all those little details, I am in awe. Not only did they set the bar high for all other Garrus cosplayers...they set it for turians, period.

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 septembre 2010 - 06:21 .

[Liec]

ciaweth wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
 Would a whole load of awesome stuff be lost if they weren't there? Yes, I think so.

Just for the sake of conversation, what awesome stuff would be lost if Garrus ever had his physical (not psychological) scars healed?

His krogan seduction potential would plummet, for starters.

[ciaweth]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Well, the afore mentioned thing in the romance scene. Multiple funny one-liners that are great laughs at the least and possibly indicative of much deeper character stuff if not. A portion of a new plotline with his family that I think will make a reunion much more potent. The fact that they are sexy as hell. The fact that they are a reminder he stopped a rocket with his face and lived-a constant reminder of his badassery. And a ton of meaningful symbolism for several different things.

These things would not be ruined if he got his scars repaired in ME3.  They're things that already happened in ME2.

The "SPIRITS, what in the hell happened to your FACE???" conversation is definitely one I'd like to see, but the absence of it couldn't ruin the whole Garrus arc.

Sexy as hell?  Matter of opinion. 

Please elaborate on the "ton of meaningful symbolism for several different things."  I'm interested in the specific details that you mean by this, and what exactly would be ruined for players (not just you) if Garrus got his scars smoothed out at some point in the future.

Frankly, I'm cool with it either way, scars or no.  If you just think scars are badass, that's great.  It's the psychological scarring I'm most interested in, and that can be present in a character no matter how perfect their appearance.

[ciaweth]

Liec wrote...

ciaweth wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
 Would a whole load of awesome stuff be lost if they weren't there? Yes, I think so.

Just for the sake of conversation, what awesome stuff would be lost if Garrus ever had his physical (not psychological) scars healed?

His krogan seduction potential would plummet, for starters.

That's a good loss!  Loss of "competition" for my Shepard. 

[nekhbet]

Scars are physical memories. I think the "losing something important to the character" is above all the impression thing. Which in a game is quite crucial, mind.

[ciaweth]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I'm not talking about in ME3. I'm talking about in ME2.

Ah.  I didn't see you specify ME2 only, just saw you talking about Garrus' "story."

I don't think the scars will be as relevant in ME3. They could be removed and it probably wouldn't impact his story one way or the other.

This is what I was getting at, apart from the theoretical family reunion scene which you and I agree would be rad.

Also, I think it would be sort of weird for them to just up and vanish.

Yes, that would be weird indeed.  But I don't think anyone has advocated for that.

I can still elaborate on "symbolism" if you want, but I was referring specifically to his ME2 arc.

No, I completely understand the symbolism of the scars.  That's not difficult to understand.  But they're a symbol, is all I'm saying.  A reminder for those who would otherwise forget what Garrus just went through.  The character's personality and arc are done well enough that the scars are just frosting, albeit emotionally potent frosting.  I was trying to understand what parts of the plot of ME2 would be rendered incomplete without the scars, per your earlier post below:

I had to go back and check, because just now you said,

I just said "a lot of awesome stuff would be lost."

But earlier, you wrote:

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
Just like removing Garrus scars would ruin a good deal of the point of his story.

You specifically said "ruined" before, and that's what intrigued me, and what I'm trying to pick your brain about.  I'm asking if there's something I'm missing, or whether this is just a matter of opinion.  I'm leaning toward it being a matter of opinion.

That doesn't mean it would ruin him.

We are agreed.

Also,

I think removing them in ME2 would mean the loss of all that stuff I just mentioned. It's just I hear lots of people going on about "why doesn't that machine fix Garrus' face?" and stuff like that.

And as for the scars being sexy, well that's an opinion, but I think it's one a lot of people probably share.  I could be wrong about that of course, but I've seen a lot of people say the same thing.

So suffice it to say that by your estimation, there are "a lot of people" on both sides of the issue.  Perhaps we should make a poll! 

Modifié par ciaweth, 30 septembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Eradyn]

In my opinion, Garrus is not defined by his outward scars, nor are they important or necessary for his character. He is defined by who he is within...internal struggles, selfconfidence, inner scars, heart of gold, and all. I don't need a cliched visual reminder of what he faces each day. That said, I do think he'll look badass with the healed scartissue and cybernetics. I just don't think weight should be given to them when speaking of Garrus' character because he's defined by far more important things. ME2 is done and over with. I look forward now to ME3 (which is what I am speaking in context of).

Re: Interspecies relationships.

We cannot discount the impact asari/? relationships have on smoothing things over for alien romances. It isn't the huge taboo some people might want it to be. The only ones I can see flipping out over it are the extremists like Talid and Terra Firma. If someone wants to believe otherwise, fine. I just think the game itself telling you it isn't going to be THAT big of a deal is something worth listening to.

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 septembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[ciaweth]

I vote for the turian councilor's mistress being a batarian, but that's my love of the ridiculous making an appearance. She's probably turian or asari.

[oenis]

Garrus doesn't seem like the type who would go to the effort of fixing the scars unless romanced femshep asked him to. I can see him keeping the scars, possibly as a reminder, like he has the names of his squad mates carved into his visor. He's not the type to erase reminders of what happened in his past; in fact, I think he cherishes reminders.



Even if the scars hold no significance for him, I don't think he'd be vain enough to get them repaired. Especially if femshep already wubs him.

[Eradyn]

Wanting physical scars healed is not always driven by vanity. I do agree he is not vain.=/

Edit:lol Ciaweth. You and your crack pairings. XD

Modifié par Eradyn, 30 septembre 2010 - 07:04 .

[ciaweth]

Here, take a poll on Garrus' scars!

[lovgreno]

I don't know, Garrus doesn't seem like the guy who dwells on the past so the scars should not be that important to him. Now that the gangster bosses who was hunting him are dealt with along with Sidonis all that is in the past. And I think he knows that he is handsome and charming and likes it, he does have a good self confidence so why not restore his good looks? A little vain yes but I think that is a part of Garrus personality.