Eradyn wrote...
I think that female turians being able to take on equal roles AND being capable of fulfilling its requirements, actively and on a regular basis, is actually evidence in favor of egg-bearing vs livebirth. Egg-bearers' systems are not taxed as heavily and for as long as those that bear young to term and give live-birth. The egg-bearing mother may carry the egg for a small while, then lay it, and then be able to continue in her duties. A mother that carries a child to full term and gives live birth will be taxed more during development, not to mention being less physically capable during the lengthy process (and in turn more vulnerable for a longer period of time), and then still have to care for an infant not fully developed.
An egg-bearing mother spends the energy it takes to develop the shell and provide the young the nutrients it needs, then lays the egg and goes back to work until the hatching. This latter option provides more freedom for the female to match males in turian society. I would also imagine the shell of such an egg would provide necessary protection to counteract the heightened radiation levels...I wonder that it might be a very thick shell.
This is not to say live-birth couldn't work. Of course it is possible and all of this is speculation (from both sides). So I hope others don't think I'm trying to attack them or that I'm somehow married to the idea. Granted, it might seem I am more harshly opposed to the idea of live births...if anything, that would be a prejudice born from debates on the old forum where live-birth proponents argued strongly in their favor only to literally admit, at the end, that they just didn't like the idea. XD I really am perfectly fine with wherever the devs take it and I AM glad to see those of opposing opinions actually meeting with reason and not just arguing against it because they "just don't like it." My current opinion just happens to be what it is, born of the observations made from the games and books, and would gladly shift should the devs prove it otherwise. I enjoy that we can have actual discussions and debates here vs pure fluff and spam. (Although being about Garrus, that isn't such a bad thing.)
Edit: Re:Twins in an egg
First, it depends on the type of twins...fraternal (which wouldn't be a problem) or identical (which most likely would be). It is rare, but not unheard of, for twins to successfully hatch out of an egg, at least according to some parrot breeders who witnessed it happen. I assume it could happen with other avians, although it would still be rare. I think it far more possible for identical turian twins to hatch successfully in ME's timeframe than if it were in prehistoric Palavan. Today, our modern technology allows for greater survival rates amongst difficult pregnancies and those with more unusual variables, where in the past the child(ren), and often the mother as well, would die. I assume it the same in ME.
Saw this, had to comment.
It's actually at least as taxing for egg-layers to lay eggs as it is for livebearers to give birth, at least in the case of birds. An egg that is broken before it is laid can have disastrous consequences (the mother usually dies due to infection or internal injury). Most birds lay their eggs quickly but they still have to be carried. Oh, and laid. Laying eggs is not easy. A lot of female birds die doing so. I lost a pet bird that way once and it was a very sad thing; this is apparently one of the leading causes of death for pet female birds. They generally live shorter lives than males. Plus, rather than giving birth and being done with it, egg-layers have to keep laying. The process may take hours or days, depending if it's a bird or a turtle or a snake or whatever.
You could argue technology, but it would be difficult for egg-layers to do much to improve survival rates of mothers who had difficulty laying. Surgery to remove an egg is a very iffy thing. Break the egg and you lose the patient. And they'd have to stay out of action while pregnant due to the high risk of injury to themselves as well as the offspring. The gestation period for an egg might be less, but then the eggs must be incubated and nurtured. Yes, nurtured. There's apparently growing evidence in the scientific community that baby birds learn to respond to their parents' voices while still in the shell, just like human babies have recently been proven to become accustomed to their parents' language while still in the womb.
I'm not saying turians are definitely livebearers, but it's misguided to assume that egg-laying females would be somehow more freed up from their biology than livebearers. My best guess is that the egalitarian nature of turians either has more to do with the advanced nature of their society than their biology, or they have evolved from a species that, apart from being social, shared all general tasks equally between genders, thus making the idea of anything but equality unthinkable. If that's the case, then you'd expect the male and female turians to exhibit little to no sexual dimorphism--they'd look very similar. Since Bioware will probably present female turians as strongly resembling female humans (or at least being curvier and shorter than the males), however, I'd lean toward thinking it's a result of an advanced society.
Honestly, I'd kind of like to end up seeing turian females be bigger than the males and otherwise looking remarkably similar. Why bigger? Because raptors (not dinosaurs, birds of prey!) follow this pattern. Males are smaller. And also because I'm kind of tired of seeing all the female aliens compare so closely with female humans in regard to the female vs. male dichotomy. If they're aliens, I want them to seem a little more alien, you know?
Which brings me randomly to the notion of Garrus and his comment about Shepard's supportive waist. Some people believe he's failing at a compliment (maybe turian females have super-tiny waistlines), while others think it might be a positive thing for a turian female to have a larger waist. Given the specific phrasing "supportive," I'm inclined to believe that a female with a larger waistline, and therefore better reproductive capability, is preferred by turian males. This is kind of comparable to humans--males tend to go for girls with bigger breasts and wider hips as more attractive. Since turians are not mammals, mammary glands are a moot point. Therefore, a turian is probably more interested in the waist and hip area. A tiny waist won't hold much. Whether this implies that a female should have more eggs in reserve for fertilizing (entirely possible, since biologically speaking I'm reasonably sure if turians were egg-layers or oviviparous they'd find such a trait appealing due to greater potential to produce offspring with that individual) or that she should be heavier around the middle to contribute to the health of one or more live offspring, I'm not sure. However, considering I don't think there'd be much going on unless Garrus really did find Shepard attractive, and given that most of a turian seems to be centered above the waist (leaving little space for the necessary organs below it), being wasp-waisted is probably not appealing in turian females. But it may be the opposite for turian males.
And now that I've gone off on one tangent, here's another: Has anyone else had the thought that no matter how much he respects Shepard, Garrus probably wouldn't have agreed to her propositioning if he didn't find her at least somewhat attractive? Sure they'll have to find a way to make it work, but friends or not, I don't think he'd have agreed to it if "finding a way to make it work" involved imagining that recon scout in Shepard's place when he's trying to spend a few hours blowing off steam in private with Shepard. Whether he had an outright crush on her or not, and whether or not he had ever considered sleeping with her (I do not believe he had), I have little doubt that he had at some point thought something like, "Hm. Shepard's an attractive female. Look at that waistline..." This is why I'm a fan of Garrus having a vague attraction to Shepard already, if not a crush that he wouldn't admit to himself because she's human and that's just too weird. Let's face it, it's pretty outrageous to proposition an alien species--you don't even know if your parts are compatible or if you may have some weird allergic reaction or if the alien is somehow toxic to you. You don't know their culture, their habits, what might be a good way to seduce them. Now think how gutsy/insane Garrus has to be to say yes to it, when it would likely be less of a problem to say no. He's reckless, but he doesn't usually needlessly endanger himself. This being such a crazy thing to do, I don't think you'd agree to do it for friendship's sake alone, although maybe Garrus figures if he dies in the suicide mission that'll be the last sex he'll ever have. In love? Probably not at that stage, but if there's a strong enough physical as well as mental attraction, it makes more sense that he agrees.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and compare Garrus to Septimus Oraka. He's friends with Shepard, and I'm reasonably sure he finds her attractive mentally and at least to some degree physically. Garrus is Shepard's subordinate, though he behaves more as an equal. Shepard is also the person who helps him through all of his problems. She's always there for him. She even saved him from dying of a missile to the face. It starts to sound very similar to Septimus's story about how Sha'ira was the only woman for him because she could help him with his problems. The difference is, perhaps, that Garrus just isn't enough of a romantic to see what Shepard might mean to him beyond friendship. While Septimus propositions Sha'ira and is spurned, with Garrus it's Shepard who propositions. But you can still have Shepard turn him down in his final scene--the last man Shepard might ever be with and she can turn him away. Am I too far off the mark to think it's possible that A) Garrus might eventually have propositioned Shepard, and
if you reject him at the end, he's probably going to become as miserable as Septimus in that side quest, nursing that bottle of wine to himself? However, from what I've heard by accident (I hate spoilers so please don't spoil Shadow Broker for me when I'm busy trying to replay both games due to losing my saves) there are hints he'll be leaving the crew for ME3. So therefore he won't have a chance to proposition Shepard if she didn't already try to seduce him.
Speaking of ME3... I have a theory that while Garrus may very well still be on your crew for ME3 (but he'll probably just be a cameo, even though I'd rather he be a full crew member), perhaps due to his popularity he's being set up for a game of his own. Let's face it, playing as Garrus would be great, and we've been told that the trilogy won't be the end of the Mass Effect franchise.
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