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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#13951
kglaser

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fallele wrote...

true, theres nothing really worse than to see a superior officer drowning their sorrows in drink in a moment of self pity. a drunk Shepard under more happier circumstances would be a laugh.

I'm still reading in the old thread, on page 707 now...then i saw this...and died of laughter and epicness...no kidding my eyes are red from the tears. i'm wondering if i'll live through tomorrow if i keep thinking about this.

Posted Image


Haha, you found Lady GarGar :D
--a Flammie classic...man he was awesome...

#13952
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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kglaser wrote...

fallele wrote...

true, theres nothing really worse than to see a superior officer drowning their sorrows in drink in a moment of self pity. a drunk Shepard under more happier circumstances would be a laugh.

I'm still reading in the old thread, on page 707 now...then i saw this...and died of laughter and epicness...no kidding my eyes are red from the tears. i'm wondering if i'll live through tomorrow if i keep thinking about this.

Posted Image


Haha, you found Lady GarGar :D
--a Flammie classic...man he was awesome...

Can't read his, can't read his poker face!

#13953
kglaser

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I can read it.

He's thinking, "I'd BETTER be a squaddie in ME3..."

#13954
aznsoisauce

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Not only do I happen upon some Lady Gargar upon visiting the thread, but...

RiotLaFontaine wrote...

I'm popping on by (I read these threads frequently, but never get much of a chance to respond these days - sadface!) in order to drop off my most recent sets of high-res turian/Garrus shots :3

http://www.mediafire...al2y7v66pq9ekle

These shots include a second run of Overlord, pics of FemShep and Garrus in the cabin, and Lair of the Shadow Broker.

YESSSSSSS.  I can not get enough of these.

Also, I do not understand why his Shadow Broker dossier should worry anyone. Shepard is not his superior, they are friends. Shepard can give him opportunities to lead, situations where people will depend on Garrus and not Shepard. The only thing keeping him from whatever his full potential may be is himself.

...then again, I am basing that on a playthrough where Shep and Garrus are comrades from ME1 into ME2.

#13955
Evelinessa

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aznsoisauce wrote...

Also, I do not understand why his Shadow Broker dossier should worry anyone. Shepard is not his superior, they are friends. Shepard can give him opportunities to lead, situations where people will depend on Garrus and not Shepard. The only thing keeping him from whatever his full potential may be is himself.

...then again, I am basing that on a playthrough where Shep and Garrus are comrades from ME1 into ME2.


The reason why I was worried is because I don't want him to not be a squadmate because he would be better off leading something else. But that's kinda selfish. I would love for there to be a section of him leading something and people need him and he saves Shepard or something, but I rather have that with him in the squad not a cameo with him leading something. But I didn't think of it that way, that there might be a part of the game where he leads I just didn't want him to leave the squad because of it. I thought the dossier was forshadowing him leaving the squad.

#13956
aznsoisauce

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You can have him as the other leader throughout the entire suicide mission.

...that's what I do, anyway. I mean, other squaddies are practically doomed without him. Sure, you can have Jacob or Miri lead, but if you don't leave Garrus to help guard the door, then death becomes much more likely for the other squad mates.

#13957
Collider

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Garrus makes the most sense as team leader.



1. Jacob & Miranda do not demonstrate that they would be a good combat leaders. She says herself that she doesn't have the same quality that Shepard does in leading people into hell.

2. Miranda, before the human reaper, is stubbornly pro-Cerberus & pro-human (most of the team are aliens) and many people do not trust her as a result. Garrus himself says this and says that he does not want Miranda as a leader.

3. Whereas Jacob and Miranda do not show to the player before the suicide mission that they have relevant combat leadership experience, Garrus does - and it's quite impressive. He and his team single handedly pissed off all of the major merc groups on Omega.

#13958
Evelinessa

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aznsoisauce wrote...

You can have him as the other leader throughout the entire suicide mission.

...that's what I do, anyway. I mean, other squaddies are practically doomed without him. Sure, you can have Jacob or Miri lead, but if you don't leave Garrus to help guard the door, then death becomes much more likely for the other squad mates.


Yes, I know he can lead the suicide mission but I was talking about him leading in ME3. In my first playthrough I cheated by reading a guide on who to assign to what job, and I knew he would make a good leader but I still assigned Miranda because I was still scared Garrus would die. But I'm going to make him leader from now on.


Collider wrote...

Garrus makes the most sense as team leader.

1. Jacob & Miranda do not demonstrate that they would be a good combat leaders. She says herself that she doesn't have the same quality that Shepard does in leading people into hell.
2. Miranda, before the human reaper, is stubbornly pro-Cerberus & pro-human (most of the team are aliens) and many people do not trust her as a result. Garrus himself says this and says that he does not want Miranda as a leader.
3. Whereas Jacob and Miranda do not show to the player before the suicide mission that they have relevant combat leadership experience, Garrus does - and it's quite impressive. He and his team single handedly pissed off all of the major merc groups on Omega.



When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

Anyways, Garrus is my second in command. I don't care about Miranda.

Also what I don't like is that people on the Gamefaqs board often call Garrus a bad leader just because he got betrayed and his team ended up dying. I don't agree with that. That wasn't his fault.

#13959
GuardianAngel470

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Evelinessa wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

You can have him as the other leader throughout the entire suicide mission.

...that's what I do, anyway. I mean, other squaddies are practically doomed without him. Sure, you can have Jacob or Miri lead, but if you don't leave Garrus to help guard the door, then death becomes much more likely for the other squad mates.


Yes, I know he can lead the suicide mission but I was talking about him leading in ME3. In my first playthrough I cheated by reading a guide on who to assign to what job, and I knew he would make a good leader but I still assigned Miranda because I was still scared Garrus would die. But I'm going to make him leader from now on.


Collider wrote...

Garrus makes the most sense as team leader.

1. Jacob & Miranda do not demonstrate that they would be a good combat leaders. She says herself that she doesn't have the same quality that Shepard does in leading people into hell.
2. Miranda, before the human reaper, is stubbornly pro-Cerberus & pro-human (most of the team are aliens) and many people do not trust her as a result. Garrus himself says this and says that he does not want Miranda as a leader.
3. Whereas Jacob and Miranda do not show to the player before the suicide mission that they have relevant combat leadership experience, Garrus does - and it's quite impressive. He and his team single handedly pissed off all of the major merc groups on Omega.



When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

Anyways, Garrus is my second in command. I don't care about Miranda.

Also what I don't like is that people on the Gamefaqs board often call Garrus a bad leader just because he got betrayed and his team ended up dying. I don't agree with that. That wasn't his fault.


He shakes his head in agreement with Jack.

#13960
Pacifien

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Evelinessa wrote...
When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

When Miranda mentions leading the first team, Jack speaks up that she's not cool with that. Garrus is shaking his head in the background. If Jack should be dead before reaching that point, Garrus then says that he doesn't want Miranda leading the team, that half the squad don't even trust her. (He's quite emphatic about it, actually.) If Jack and Garrus should be dead before reaching that point, Jacob says he's totally not cool with Miranda being the leader.

And if Jacob is saying that, you have to start wondering who would be cool with Miranda as the leader. But that's an entirely different topic for a different thread.

Modifié par Pacifien, 23 octobre 2010 - 04:22 .


#13961
aznsoisauce

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Evelinessa wrote...
Also what I don't like is that people on the Gamefaqs board often call Garrus a bad leader just because he got betrayed and his team ended up dying. I don't agree with that. That wasn't his fault.

Indeed.

Unlike Zaeed and Tali, Garrus is actually quite capable of successfully leading a team and having them survive.

Also, I know you knew that...didn't mean to insult your intelligence or anything...I don't even know why I posted that. XD

Pacifien wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

When Miranda mentions leading the first team, Jack speaks up that she's not cool with that. Garrus is shaking his head in the background. If Jack should be dead before reaching that point, Garrus then says that he doesn't want Miranda leading the team, that half the squad don't even trust her. (He's quite emphatic about it, actually.) If Jack and Garrus should be dead before reaching that point, Jacob says he's totally not cool with Miranda being the leader.

And if Jacob is saying that, you have to start wondering who would be cool with Miranda as the leader. But that's an entirely different topic for a different thread.


...Woooooooow.

#13962
NitrAce

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Woo Go Garrus!

http://www.joystickd...ing_charact.php

#13963
GuardianAngel470

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aznsoisauce wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
Also what I don't like is that people on the Gamefaqs board often call Garrus a bad leader just because he got betrayed and his team ended up dying. I don't agree with that. That wasn't his fault.

Indeed.

Unlike Zaeed and Tali, Garrus is actually quite capable of successfully leading a team and having them survive.

Also, I know you knew that...didn't mean to insult your intelligence or anything...I don't even know why I posted that. XD

Pacifien wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

When Miranda mentions leading the first team, Jack speaks up that she's not cool with that. Garrus is shaking his head in the background. If Jack should be dead before reaching that point, Garrus then says that he doesn't want Miranda leading the team, that half the squad don't even trust her. (He's quite emphatic about it, actually.) If Jack and Garrus should be dead before reaching that point, Jacob says he's totally not cool with Miranda being the leader.

And if Jacob is saying that, you have to start wondering who would be cool with Miranda as the leader. But that's an entirely different topic for a different thread.


...Woooooooow.


Yeah, I didn't know that either. Pretty crazy, and exactly why I don't ever put her in charge. It's also why I never think of her as my second in command.

Garrus is that, followed by just about anybody, except kelly. She's way, way down at the bottom.

#13964
Sable Rhapsody

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GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Yeah, I didn't know that either. Pretty crazy, and exactly why I don't ever put her in charge. It's also why I never think of her as my second in command.

Garrus is that, followed by just about anybody, except kelly. She's way, way down at the bottom.


That's something I don't get.  I was convinced I would hate Miranda, and upon actually playing with her, I came to quite like and respect her as a character.  She doesn't have the magic touch that Shep (and to a lesser extent, Garrus) have for lighting a fire under people's asses and getting them to rush into certain death, but she's a smart tactician who cares about mission success first and foremost.  That was something my Shep came to respect, even despite the Cerberus thing.  Miranda may not inspire loyalty or friendship as a leader, but she gets everyone to do their jobs competently regardless.

Also, to be entirely fair, Garrus does have some serious weaknesses as a leader.  He's headstrong, IMO a little too emotionally driven, and he himself admits he has trouble with shades of grey.  I can't see him dealing well with morally murky decisions like Legion and Mordin's sidequests, or who to leave on Virmire.  That kind of stuff would just eat at him.  And the Shadow Broker's assessment of him was a fairly spot-on one.  Despite his own skills, he continually defers to Shep's judgment even when he strongly disagrees (Saleon, Sidonis if Paragon).  Even if he's a fire team leader all the way through and at the hold the line sequence, that leadership isn't independent of Shep--it's BECAUSE of Shep.

Not that these are bad things per se.  I like Garrus's character flaws.  They make him more realistic.  

#13965
GuardianAngel470

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Yeah, I didn't know that either. Pretty crazy, and exactly why I don't ever put her in charge. It's also why I never think of her as my second in command.

Garrus is that, followed by just about anybody, except kelly. She's way, way down at the bottom.


That's something I don't get.  I was convinced I would hate Miranda, and upon actually playing with her, I came to quite like and respect her as a character.  She doesn't have the magic touch that Shep (and to a lesser extent, Garrus) have for lighting a fire under people's asses and getting them to rush into certain death, but she's a smart tactician who cares about mission success first and foremost.  That was something my Shep came to respect, even despite the Cerberus thing.  Miranda may not inspire loyalty or friendship as a leader, but she gets everyone to do their jobs competently regardless.

Also, to be entirely fair, Garrus does have some serious weaknesses as a leader.  He's headstrong, IMO a little too emotionally driven, and he himself admits he has trouble with shades of grey.  I can't see him dealing well with morally murky decisions like Legion and Mordin's sidequests, or who to leave on Virmire.  That kind of stuff would just eat at him.  And the Shadow Broker's assessment of him was a fairly spot-on one.  Despite his own skills, he continually defers to Shep's judgment even when he strongly disagrees (Saleon, Sidonis if Paragon).  Even if he's a fire team leader all the way through and at the hold the line sequence, that leadership isn't independent of Shep--it's BECAUSE of Shep.

Not that these are bad things per se.  I like Garrus's character flaws.  They make him more realistic.  


A very large part of leadership is inspiring subordinates. Very large. You cannot lead people that don't respect you. Miranda can get the job done if it is just her or a few of her closest underlings like Jacob but she doesn't engender trust and she doesn't understand what it means to make sure that subordinates have what they need.

She isn't a people person.

It's hard to explain why she makes a bad leader when it's 2:30 in the morning so I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

There is more to leading than tactics and strategy. You need to be able to convey why people should sacrifice their lives for something. You need to inspire others to want to follow your orders because in the end those orders may get them killed. They know that, so they need to know why their sacrifice is necessary. Maybe not explicitly, and maybe not the truth, but a good leader needs to be able to make their subordinates willing to follow.

Shepard does this with the loyalty missions. I don't really know how Garrus managed to weave together a bunch of misfits on Omega, but his operations and leadership were obviously good. Miranda's track record however is not as good. Wilson, specifically, would have been spotted by a good leader because a good leader listens to his/her troops and watches for signs of discontent or fatigue. And before you say it, Garrus couldn't have predicted the gangs catching Sedonis and because of the external influence it wasn't his fault. Wilson, from his logs, saw Miranda as an ice queen, which is not a good leadership characteristic.

In this vein, a Renegade shep who is mean to the crew would also be a bad leader, but since this is a game, it doesn't amount to anything.

And Miranda wouldn't be at the bottom of my list, but as a second in command, she ranks fairly low. Not above Jack, Grunt, Zaeed, or Kasumi, but definitely below mordin, samara, Garrus, Tali, Joker, EDI, Legion, Jacob, and Thane.  

There is the lack of trust the crew have for Miranda, her lack of people skills, and her lack of combat experience that rank her that low.

#13966
aznsoisauce

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GuardianAngel470 wrote...

In this vein, a Renegade shep who is mean to the crew would also be a bad leader, but since this is a game, it doesn't amount to anything.

I would include not doing loyalty missions as being "mean to the crew." In which case, it does amount to something.

Also, Zaeed is totally my second choice for second in command after Garrus. He always seems to say what I'm thinking..."The geth says to kill the geth. That's good enough for me."

#13967
Timerider42

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NitrAce wrote...

Woo Go Garrus!
http://www.joystickd...ing_charact.php


He needs to be higher than 8. More like 4 or 5.

#13968
Evelinessa

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aznsoisauce wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
Also what I don't like is that people on the Gamefaqs board often call Garrus a bad leader just because he got betrayed and his team ended up dying. I don't agree with that. That wasn't his fault.

Indeed.

Unlike Zaeed and Tali, Garrus is actually quite capable of successfully leading a team and having them survive.

Also, I know you knew that...didn't mean to insult your intelligence or anything...I don't even know why I posted that. XD


Oh, no don't worry about it, I wasn't insulted.

If I couldn't be a leader and for some reason someone else had to lead Shepard, I would totally trust Garrus to do it.

Pacifien wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
When does Garrus say he doesn't want Miranda leading? I don't remember this.

When Miranda mentions leading the first team, Jack speaks up that she's not cool with that. Garrus is shaking his head in the background. If Jack should be dead before reaching that point, Garrus then says that he doesn't want Miranda leading the team, that half the squad don't even trust her. (He's quite emphatic about it, actually.) If Jack and Garrus should be dead before reaching that point, Jacob says he's totally not cool with Miranda being the leader.

And if Jacob is saying that, you have to start wondering who would be cool with Miranda as the leader. But that's an entirely different topic for a different thread.


Wow, now that I think about it I remember Jack saying something. And now I know alot of people don't want Miranda to lead. That info is good to know. Thanks.

#13969
Evelinessa

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Timerider42 wrote...

NitrAce wrote...

Woo Go Garrus!
http://www.joystickd...ing_charact.php


He needs to be higher than 8. More like 4 or 5.


That's great he made a list. And I agree he should be higher up.

#13970
kglaser

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Evelinessa wrote...

Timerider42 wrote...

NitrAce wrote...

Woo Go Garrus!
http://www.joystickd...ing_charact.php


He needs to be higher than 8. More like 4 or 5.


That's great he made a list. And I agree he should be higher up.


This is so cool!
And, yes, he should have. ;)

#13971
Evelinessa

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What color are Garrus' eyes?

I've heard people call them blue before, and is it just me because I don't see that at all. I've been watching that video that someone posted here(the femshep and Garrus give me a sign one. I'm really addicted to watching it.) and to me his eyes look mostly grey with little parts of green in it. So which is it?

#13972
kglaser

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To me, they looked bluer in ME1 than 2. Frankly, I'm not sure, as they seem to be different colors in different scenes. Not really blue, though.

#13973
GuardianAngel470

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kglaser wrote...

To me, they looked bluer in ME1 than 2. Frankly, I'm not sure, as they seem to be different colors in different scenes. Not really blue, though.


I'd say gray.

#13974
ciaweth

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They always looked sort of gunmetal blue to me.

#13975
GuardianAngel470

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ciaweth wrote...

They always looked sort of gunmetal blue to me.


You have to keep in mind that his armor is blue. Very blue. That's why I think they're gray.