29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I agree, but he isn't quite 'true neutral' like Jaheira. I'm not saying that he is evil, he always has good intentions and genuinely wants to make the galaxy a better place. But the means of doing what he wants shows that he has little use for regulations, he does what needs to be done. When I am playing ME2, I can see Garrus choosing a lot of the renegade options and a few paragon. But he is always polite and loyal to his allies. Just don't get on the wrong side of him. You will need all three mercenary corporations, a heavy mech and a gunship just to scar him... Yeah!

[IndelibleJester]

I think in the end it matters on which way you spoke to him. During ME1 he is certainly chaotic good, even considering Dr. Saleon, but in ME2 (I agreed and thus renegaded him in ME1) he is very assuredly chaotic neutral, I agree. Whether or not there is much change from this if you paragon him I am not sure.

[Kim Shepard]

Garrus' morality in Mass Effect would be closest to Renegon, I think. It fits with the dev quote about him being a "compassionate Renegade." Most (if not all) Renegade decisions aren't evil - they just don't follow the rules, think that ends justify the means, and are more likely to kill people than arrest them. Add a little Paragon in there, and it means that Garrus wants to help people, but he'll use those methods.

For anyone else as clueless about D&D as I was... I found the Wiki's Alignment page. I had to look this up once before, and it's basically the same as I remembered it. Chaotic Neutral is a good alignment for one of my Renegon Shepards, but I don't think it fits for Garrus. The D&D alignments don't really fit the Mass Effect morality system. Garrus seems more like Chaotic Good, in my opinion. Chaotic Neutrals aren't fighting for anyone, which would fit my Renegon Shepard (who had no problem changing his alliance to Cerberus when they offered to help), but Garrus is definitely fighting for others like the people on Omega. Neither system is perfect though. There are always a few things about them that won't fit with a complex character's personality. They are what they are, and it's hard to define them in a few words.

While we're on the subject though, I think Saren's a pretty good match for Lawful Evil. xD The "duty to an evil deity" part just makes me think of Sovereign.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Garrus' morality in Mass Effect would be closest to Renegon, I think. It fits with the dev quote about him being a "compassionate Renegade." Most (if not all) Renegade decisions aren't evil - they just don't follow the rules, think that ends justify the means, and are more likely to kill people than arrest them. Add a little Paragon in there, and it means that Garrus wants to help people, but he'll use those methods.

For anyone else as clueless about D&D as I was... I found the Wiki's Alignment page. I had to look this up once before, and it's basically the same as I remembered it. Chaotic Neutral is a good alignment for one of my Renegon Shepards, but I don't think it fits for Garrus. The D&D alignments don't really fit the Mass Effect morality system. Garrus seems more like Chaotic Good, in my opinion. Chaotic Neutrals aren't fighting for anyone, which would fit my Renegon Shepard (who had no problem changing his alliance to Cerberus when they offered to help), but Garrus is definitely fighting for others like the people on Omega. Neither system is perfect though. There are always a few things about them that won't fit with a complex character's personality. They are what they are, and it's hard to define them in a few words.

While we're on the subject though, I think Saren's a pretty good match for Lawful Evil. xD The "duty to an evil deity" part just makes me think of Sovereign.

I saw a motivational on Saren that had exactly that just now! 'Lawful evil' was the title. Man that is weeeeiird...
I was referring to the alignments on Baldurs Gate (I totally miss that game ) but I guess the D&D alignments are the same. Edwin is lawful evil, and I can see some parallels with Saren...
Hmm, I wonder which Baldur's Gate character fits in most with Garrus? Just speculating...

[Collider]

Garrus is definitely Chaotic Good.

[Kim Shepard]

Awesome. I remember a motivational like that too. I've seen a lot of those alignment motivationals, and most of them have different takes on the characters, but everyone gets them right for Saren.

Just looked it up, and Baldur's Gate uses the same system. I haven't played that one either.

[Sialater]

danitiwa wrote...

He just seemed more laid back than the rest of the blue suns. :I
That might sound silly. But the gunship gets repaired no matter what you do so I didn't see much point in it.  It didn't seem right to just sneak up on a guy like that. If I'm going to kill someone I don't do it from the front.

I'm so paragon my crap is blue~~

Actually, the gunship dies faster if you take the interrupt.  The first time I played, I didn't take it.  Took FOREVER to kill the thing even on Normal.  

[Kim Shepard]

It's a good thing my Separds like their Renegade interrupts. The weakened gunship was hard enough on Casual.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

You should play it Kim! It's the game that got me into games! (At the age of 8...) I guess Garrus, can be chaotic good if paragoned and chatoic neutral if renegaded. I renegaded him which is probably why I have a different opinion. I wanted Garrus to do what he wanted, what he thought would be best for him. So yeah, kill Saleon and Sidonis, they deserved it anyway.

[Kim Shepard]

I definitely want to play them. Not sure if they'll work on my PC. (I don't have a gaming PC, but some games do work on it. I would never expect it to play something like Mass Effect though.) Edit: You know what? It probably will. I'm pretty bad at judging this kind of thing, but I've played games on this PC with higher system requirements.

I always Renegade Garrus too. In fact, I doubt I'll be able to make any of my Shepards Paragon him. Too much of a betrayal to my vengeful Sheps. There's one thing in Chaotic Neutral that goes against Garrus' character though - the part that says they're not motivated to protect others' freedom. That's exactly what he was doing on Omega. A lot of it fits for him, but that one thing is too big a part of his character for me to ignore along with the little stuff that doesn't matter as much. For Chaotic Good, "acts as his conscience directs him" could easily mean killing criminals and justice in the form of revenge.

Modifié par Kim Shepard, 21 novembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[danitiwa]

I thought I'd liven up this thread with some more weird fanart.

Now you may want to excercise caution before you look at this, it might either please you or scar your image of Garrus forever.
For whatever reason I decided I felt like drawing him in human form. Because I'm awesome that way :I It's very hard to convert turian features to something human looking.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j26zj5.jpg

Modifié par danitiwa, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:46 .

[Kim Shepard]

It is hard to think of what turians would look like as a human. I normally think of the faceplate color as becoming their hair color. I've tried to imagine what Saren would look like as a human when I considered playing a "Saren Shepard" through the games, but he wouldn't look all that human if the colors were left the same because he has gray skin. Then again, if too much was changed, it wouldn't look like Saren anymore.

Figuring out what humans would look like as turians is a lot easier (aside from the fact that there's some guessing involved with the females). I have no trouble thinking of my Shepards as turans. There's not as much difference in the shape of their faces.

[MadCat221]

Kim Shepard wrote...

It's a good thing my Separds like their Renegade interrupts. The weakened gunship was hard enough on Casual.

I took it even as a Paragon.  They're mercs, and criminals to boot.  I knew I'd be gunning them down by the dozens only minutes later.  What's one pre-emptive kill?

[Sialater]

MadCat221 wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

It's a good thing my Separds like their Renegade interrupts. The weakened gunship was hard enough on Casual.

I took it even as a Paragon.  They're mercs, and criminals to boot.  I knew I'd be gunning them down by the dozens only minutes later.  What's one pre-emptive kill?

I think the problem is HOW you kill the guy.  It's not a nice way to die.

But, doesn't matter.  He's a danger to Garrus... he goes.

[Sialater]

Jillyfae, Sapphyreelf and I have updated Persephone Rising with Chapter 12.



Ella, Alexis and Meghan thank you for your support!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Hmm, I wonder which Baldur's Gate character fits in most with Garrus? Just speculating...

Hmm.  The closest character I can think of is Kivan, the elf who's out for revenge and the game's acest archer.  (Except for Coran who breaks the character creation rules <_<).  I suppose Kivan's backstory more resembles Thane's, but Kivan's mechanics and personality--Chaotic Good but easily sidetracked by anger and revenge--more closely resembles Garrus.

Kim Shepard wrote...

I always Renegade Garrus too. In fact, I doubt I'll be able to make any of my Shepards Paragon him. Too much of a betrayal to my vengeful Sheps. There's one thing in Chaotic Neutral that goes against Garrus' character though - the part that says they're not motivated to protect others' freedom. That's exactly what he was doing on Omega. A lot of it fits for him, but that one thing is too big a part of his character for me to ignore along with the little stuff that doesn't matter as much. For Chaotic Good, "acts as his conscience directs him" could easily mean killing criminals and justice in the form of revenge.

I Renegaded him in ME1 on my most recent replay.  I tried to take Saleon alive, but my Paragade Shep 100% agreed with Garrus that Saren needed to be killed rather than arrested, and the carte blanche license of the Spectres was one of their greatest strengths.  So that nudged him Renegade.  But I Paragoned him in ME2--killing someone because they're a too much of a threat alive is one thing, but killing someone out of vengeance is something entirely different.  My Shep is not a vengeful person--ruthless, but not vengeful.

The line that Shepard gives if you turned Garrus Renegade in ME1 and Paragon in ME2 is pretty fitting; Shep says that killing can be the best solution, but only when you're out of options.  Garrus still had options.  Shep didn't when going after Saren.

[danitiwa]

Garrus is a great mixture of Badass and Good intentions. It's sort of sad that Shepard can't be  like him in ME2 because you'll fail the suicide mission without Miranda/Jack Tali/Legion loyalty and just have a bunch of losses because you can't choose the special lines to solve things.

If I could I would have my shep be badass and paragon, which is what I did at the beginning of ME1 but I ended up getting conrad werner killed and that pissed me off because I want to kick his ass again in ME2. Plus with full paragon you get the tragic poetic Saren ending.

I can totally see Thane and Garrus singing this. :I Thane=Andy Garrus=Jorma


Especially the beginning sounds like Thane because of the raspy voice haha.

Modifié par danitiwa, 22 novembre 2010 - 07:30 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Hmm, I wonder which Baldur's Gate character fits in most with Garrus? Just speculating...

Hmm.  The closest character I can think of is Kivan, the elf who's out for revenge and the game's acest archer.  (Except for Coran who breaks the character creation rules <_<).  I suppose Kivan's backstory more resembles Thane's, but Kivan's mechanics and personality--Chaotic Good but easily sidetracked by anger and revenge--more closely resembles Garrus.

Kim Shepard wrote...

I always Renegade Garrus too. In fact, I doubt I'll be able to make any of my Shepards Paragon him. Too much of a betrayal to my vengeful Sheps. There's one thing in Chaotic Neutral that goes against Garrus' character though - the part that says they're not motivated to protect others' freedom. That's exactly what he was doing on Omega. A lot of it fits for him, but that one thing is too big a part of his character for me to ignore along with the little stuff that doesn't matter as much. For Chaotic Good, "acts as his conscience directs him" could easily mean killing criminals and justice in the form of revenge.

You know, I always had quite a thing for Kivan, I was really upset that he wasn't in Baldurs Gate 2, and there wasn't some kind of showdown with him and Tazok at the end. And you never found out what happened to Deiriana (or whatever her name was.) I can see why you see the resemblance though, they are both ruthless, and they both have sexy voices...
And Kim, you are very correct there, I haven't played Baldurs Gate in a while (if you have windows 7, then it won't install I'm afraid, not sure though, may just be my scratched and worn disc.) But Garrus fights to give innocents more freedom and to punish criminals, so you are right that definately goes against chaotic neutral.
I have just completed Garrus' recruitment mission again, and the gunship is def half armour rather than no shields if you take out that batarian. I have also discovered that turian blood is definately blue. Just to throw it out there.

[Kim Shepard]

...I laughed when the Renegade interrupt happened. xD It was totally unexpected, but so awesome. I like all of the "combat effective" interrupts. They are just Shepard killing people who would have been killed anyway, but in a much cooler way.

My Shepards agree with Garrus when it comes to revenge. They're not a forgiving bunch. Some disagree when it comes to Saren though, like my MainShep. I don't even know what morality she is anymore. She plays favorites. Everyone on her good side is better off or it, and everyone on her bad side has a target on their back. Almost destroy the Citadel under the influence of an evil sentient machine? It's okay because she likes him! Betray her friend? He never had a chance.

For Saren, I always talk him down at the end with either Paragon, Renegade, or some combination of the two. Pragon is my favorite there, and that's the one MainShep used. The MaleShep in my last playthrough used a combination because it was more in-character for him (even though I don't like making my Shepards say anything bad about Saren). It's nice that combinations of both were easy to do in ME1. I'm still trying to figure it out in ME2.

@Tasha: I have Windows Vista. Hope it works! This is why I don't play more PC games, because the system requirements confuse me. But a character like Garrus sounds great. Is he a romance option?

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Kivan wasn't unfortunately, no... He had a kidnapped fiancee, Baldurs Gate will certainly work on Vista. But there are some ace charcters. Kivan is only in BG1, but BG2 is the better game.

I think it's ace that you love Saren. He is a brilliant antagonist, and that coversation at the end gets me every time. It definately highlights all the shades of grey, until you don't how your actions can be classified as 'good' or 'bad' anymore. I think all villains should do that to the heroes. And I think that is what ME2 missed out on. I do think Saren is controversial, but brilliant. However, Garrus is the one for me!

[Kim Shepard]

You know what's really awesome? It's possible to play a Shepard who likes Saren and have nothing in the game suggest otherwise. Tell Anderson that Saren's plan at the factory was a good idea, tell Garrus that you don't want to kill him, tell Liara that you feel sorry for him too, and Paragon him both times. So it's actually canon that my MainShep loves him.

Garrus is one of my favorites overall and definitely my favorite squadmate. I have a different verson of MainShep who romanced him (one who just idolized Saren).

[Giggles_Manically]

Thats what I loved about ME1 it gave me so many chances to voice an opinion and view on things.

I loved Saren's spiel on Virmire and the Citadel.



His face when he sees the Normandy coming in for a bombing run with the Mako was also good.



I really was shocked when he plugged himself though at the end and managed to fight for that last moment of defiance. Really was a cool ending.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Collider wrote...

Garrus is definitely Chaotic Good.

QFT.

In fact, If I could relate my real-life morals and my Shepard's morals to anyone, it would be Garrus. We both agree with eachother on everything, and we're both Renegon. Though I'm more Chaotic Neutral to be honest.
I found it hard to play a paragon sometimes because paragon is so mean to Garrus =( Especially since he's so right. It should be about getting the job done, not about how you do it.

Modifié par Cra5y Pineapple, 22 novembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Kim Shepard]

The whole reason I bought Mass Effect was for the choices, creating a character, and all that. It turned out to have more choices than I thought possible. And the character interaction. The conversations with Saren on Virmire and the Citadel are the best I've ever seen in a game. I was still shocked to see Saren kill himself even though I knew it was going to happen. In ME2, it was great to see the interaction during Garrus' recruitment and loyalty missions - the things he said really made it feel like he knew my Shepard. "You haven't changed." "I learned from the best." That whole line about going through hell and back together. Stuff like that just makes the games great.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
You know, I always had quite a thing for Kivan, I was really upset that he wasn't in Baldurs Gate 2, and there wasn't some kind of showdown with him and Tazok at the end. And you never found out what happened to Deiriana (or whatever her name was.) I can see why you see the resemblance though, they are both ruthless, and they both have sexy voices...

If you're willing to fiddle about with mods for BG2--which are actually quite easy to handle if you follow the instructions in the readmes--there's a mod for Kivan at Gibberlings3.net that adds him into BG2 and ToB and incorporates either a) a romance or the opportunity to resurrect his elven wife Deheriana.  Never both for highly obvious reasons.  It does contain a dead wife (and how) and it's quite the therapymance, but for a fan mod, it's well-written and well-coded, and Kivan is not overpowered like most modded characters.  It also has some very sweet flirts 

The mod's written by Domi, who's done additional mod work for the original BG, as well as NWN2.  I'd be curious to see what you guys think of it.  In some ways, Kivan's issues remind me of the worst traits of Thane combined with the worst traits of Garrus; leave those to fester for a few decades and you can see what some of these Mass Effect characters might become if not for Shep.  Kivan's almost consumed by grief and vengeance, and it takes the PC the better part of two games to yank his head out of his own ass.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 23 novembre 2010 - 06:53 .