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[ElectricZ]

danitiwa wrote...

Is it just me or is the only thing that varies with most NPC turians the color of their plates/skin/facepaint? The facial structures all seem the exact same.

"You humans are all racist!"

[Mresa]

IndelibleJester wrote...

 Here is one.
If you need an angle with a little more face in it, just say so. Last playthrough I took hundreds of screenshots.

Thanks that helps me greatly with the tattoo part but if you'd had a pic more of his face then it would be perfect.^^

Sialater- Yeah I've actually wondered about that too. I always though he would comment something about it and Shep would snap and say that she was young and hotheaded or something back then.

[IndelibleJester]

 Here are a few more.

[Kim Shepard]

I've also wondered about Garrus and Earthborn Shepard. I have Earthborns who made friends with Garrus, and were surprised that they got along with an ex-cop, but the one who romanced him isn't an Earthborn. It would mostly depend on the background you came up with for your Shepard. Garrus probably wouldn't get along well with a Shepard who killed cops for fun, because that wouldn't make her very different from the criminals he arrested or killed. My Earthborn Ruthless considers his crimes necessary - he killed to stay alive and free, but he did make friends in the Reds. When they asked for his help in ME1, he was all ready to get the guy out of jail (or wherever they had him) until he heard what his old gang had turned into. He was disgusted by it, and killed his "old friend" right in front of the turian guard. I think Garrus could respect someone like that.

I imagine the dialogue between them would be great too. I can just see my Earthborn Ruthless on Jack's recruitment mission, telling Garrus that prison breaks are his specialty and this will be the fourth time he's done it. And then "Oh right, you're an ex-cop. Just... forget I said that, yeah?"

[Sialater]

LOL. Exactly. I'm working on one of Meghan's fics right now and she just told him she killed cops. She's not happy to have done it, and most if not all the ones she killed were crooked anyway. It's part of her animosity toward him at this point -- guilt. But I wanted to be sure he wouldn't just walk away from her at her announcement.

[Kim Shepard]

If Garrus already knows Shepard well enough by that point and has a certain amount of trust for her, I'd think he would at least want to know why, and wouldn't shut her down without hearing her reasons. Garrus has always trusted Shepard's reasons before, even if he might not agree with them.

[Sialater]

Well, this is pretty early in their relationship. It's been a little over a week since they met.

[Kim Shepard]

That's probably long enough, assuming they've at least gotten to know each other a little bit. I mean, Garrus joins Shepard in ME2 even if she doesn't let him join up in ME1, and he doesn't seem to have any hard feelings about it. I guess it depends on how that came up in conversation, that could change his reaction too. But angry or calm, he should still want to hear Shepard's side of the story.

[Sialater]

Thanks, Kim.

[Kim Shepard]

No problem. I spend a lot of time thinking about these things.

[Sialater]

I have, too, I was just suddenly questioning everything and wanted to see if anyone else wondered these things.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...
It would mostly depend on the background you came up with for your Shepard. 

I agree.  My Earthborn/Sole Survivor/Paragade is the one who romanced Garrus, and she's pretty much put Earth behind her. She's got a very practical, unapologetic approach toward her past: she killed cops, other gang members, pretty much anyone who endangered her well-being and survival, and that was that.  For her, killing a cop was no different than killing anyone else: if that person was threatening her, she retaliated with violence regardless of uniform or occupation.  She shot Finn when he tried to blackmail her, and that pretty much was the last nail in the coffin.

I can't imagine Garrus is thrilled with the Earthborn Shep's past associations and actions, but even Garrus has got to understand that there are some really nasty places out there in the galaxy, and not everyone follows the rules.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 24 novembre 2010 - 02:53 .

[LessThanKate]

Mresa wrote...

danitiwa wrote...

That's true.
It's just bioware not wanting to waste too much time and resources I suppose.

Well considering how many NPC's there's running around, it's hard and also quite pointless to make them all very different. Especially if they just stand there doing practically nothing.

Shepard: Oh man, that chick over there has the exact same hair as me...how embarassing!
Garrus: That turian in the corner has the same faceplate structure as I do. This is awkward.

Yeah, it became apparent over time that NPCs in these games were from the same jumbled parts. Humans kind of looked like they'd all been generated from the same slider thing as Shepard.

The worst offense, though, I think, is the quarians...considering there's nothing to be seen except the suit, and there's just a male and female version.

(Seriously, how did Tali pick out her auntie in a crowded room like that? XD )

Then again, try thinking of another games that had a lot of characters floating in the background. Villagers in RPGs would probably be the best example. From my experience, they hardly have ANY discernable characteristics about them, and it would be the same three or four models in every town you went in. I mean, I know there's a budget, I know why they do that, it's just...one of those things you're supposed to overlook.

Sialater wrote...

OK, I have a question... how do you
think Garrus would feel about the Earthborn Shepard? Especially if he
or she killed cops while a gang member? (This is obviously
preromance.)

That's surely something to consider. My "main" Shepard, if you will, is an Earthborn, but she's also a War Hero, so I don't think she needs to give anyone excuses for her past. I actually didn't know about background choices effecting Paragon/Renegade scores, so I just picked what I liked. An Earthborn/War Hero, to me, seemed like a redeemer--someone who could say "If I can do it, you can too. It's never too late to change," and all that sentimental gush.

That's also the Shepard I used to romance Garrus, go figure (and I don't like romancing one character with multiple PCs. Seems...wierd to me), and it had occurred to me once or twice before that there could have been a...conflict of interest between her an the former C-Sec officer. Maybe an Earthborn Shepard, even a reformed one, might feel patronized by his talk of taking down gangs, like they were scum, no exceptions. Then again...maybe I don't remember the details, but in my mind, the Tenth Street Reds didn't do anything major, at least during Shepard's time. I figured my Shepard was suprised to hear what Finch said on the Citadel, and that this petty group of thugs was becoming overly ambitious, and she was lucky to get out when she did.

Plus...how old is the Earthborn when enlisting? Sixteen, I think? Hard to really condemn someone that young, especially when there were no positive role models or alternatives. Wouldn't been an interesting conversation, but frankly I don't think it'd be in Garrus's place to look down on her/him. If anything, maybe he would respect Shepard all the more for it; whereas he was molded to be a soldier from the beginning, Shepard had nothing and made himself/herself something great.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:36 .

[Liec]

So Bioware revealed a few more statistics and Garrus is one of the most popular squadmates to take on missions. Only 18% of players use femshep though. Now I wonder what percentage of players actually do his romance subplot. 

www.destructoid.com/mass-effect-2-player-choice-statistics-are-surprising-188362.phtml#ext

[LessThanKate]

I've been thoroughly shocked with these statistics...I figured there would be more players using a male Shepard, but not by such a wide margin. Then there are showings that more people play Soldier than all the other classes combined. Combined! To me that says there are a lot of duded out there playing it like a standard shooter...which makes me rather sad.



Of course, it was said that Bioware listens to the fans, that's the only reason Garrus is a romance. So maybe they're not just paying attention to all fans, just the ones who care enough to manifest their opinions?

[Collider]

Of course, it was said that Bioware listens to the fans, that's the only reason Garrus is a romance. So maybe they're not just paying attention to all fans, just the ones who care enough to manifest their opinions?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

[LessThanKate]

Collider wrote...

Of course, it was said that Bioware listens to the fans, that's the only reason Garrus is a romance. So maybe they're not just paying attention to all fans, just the ones who care enough to manifest their opinions?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Okay, let me try and clarify. I only mean that people who discuss things on forums and such make a modest or small percentage of the "fans". You could make a poll about a favorite character or weapon, but the results wouldn't reflect everyone who plays the game; it would only reflect people who saw and participated in that poll.

So maybe Bioware listens to them more, the people who take the time to voice thmselves, rather than looking at numbers and the habits of more...avarage players who play the game and don't go any further.

I mean, I doubt this wide majority of people in these satistics, who play as male Shepards and only the soldier class, are the same people clamoring for romantic explorations and such.

Oh...and Garrus. Sorry to stray and...complicate my thoughts.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:50 .

[Tyrium]

LessThanKate wrote...

I've been thoroughly shocked with these statistics...I figured there would be more players using a male Shepard, but not by such a wide margin. Then there are showings that more people play Soldier than all the other classes combined. Combined! To me that says there are a lot of duded out there playing it like a standard shooter...which makes me rather sad.

Geez! That really is insane ... Anyone playing it like a straight-up shooter is missing out on so much! That said, my Shep, in all her iterations, was a soldier, and so is she in her (now final) version - although this time with the electronics bonus in ME1 and Energy Drain in ME2 - I love stripping shields.

I hate biotics (which is weird, I love playing mage characters - I'm only a warrior in DA because Cousland = best story). I absolutely love tech talents, they are so much fun, but I hate not being on the front lines. I love a mixture of combat/tech, but not the infiltrator version -. My favourites are snipers, assault rifles and overload (ED in ME2) - which just happen to be Garrus' specialities . Therefore I went with a soldier who messed around with tech when she was young. I could have done an assault rifle infiltrator, but that doesn't work in ME2 until the collector ship, and continuity is important to me (+ no widow ). Also I HATE the idea of the tactical cloak, so I have no business being infiltrator. Always hated rogues. My Shep is about as subtle as an anvil on crack with an elephant riding it. To me, it also fits the story better that a combat specialist would be chosen to lead the war. YMMV however.

Basically, what I'm saying is that playing soldier can be a tactical / role playing decision, not necessarily just because it is default. Although, more than any other combined ... that's definitely some people going with default

Modifié par Tyrium, 24 novembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[Soahfreako]

Mresa wrote...

IndelibleJester wrote...

 Here is one.
If you need an angle with a little more face in it, just say so. Last playthrough I took hundreds of screenshots.

Thanks that helps me greatly with the tattoo part but if you'd had a pic more of his face then it would be perfect.^^

Sialater- Yeah I've actually wondered about that too. I always though he would comment something about it and Shep would snap and say that she was young and hotheaded or something back then.

Could always go into ME1 and apply the ME2 garrus face mod and take pictures of that. I can't play ME1 anymore without the mod lol, low res Garrus face on ultra-high settings =/=  a happy Soah.

[Tyrium]

Soahfreako wrote...

Could always go into ME1 and apply the ME2 garrus face mod and take pictures of that. I can't play ME1 anymore without the mod lol, low res Garrus face on ultra-high settings =/=  a happy Soah.

Same here

[LessThanKate]

Tyrium wrote...

LessThanKate wrote...

I've been thoroughly shocked with these statistics...I figured there would be more players using a male Shepard, but not by such a wide margin. Then there are showings that more people play Soldier than all the other classes combined. Combined! To me that says there are a lot of duded out there playing it like a standard shooter...which makes me rather sad.

Geez! That really is insane ... Anyone playing it like a straight-up shooter is missing out on so much! That said, my Shep, in all her iterations, was a soldier, and so is she in her (now final) version - although this time with the electronics bonus in ME1 and Energy Drain in ME2 - I love stripping shields.

I hate biotics (which is weird, I love playing mage characters - I'm only a warrior in DA because Cousland = best story). I absolutely love tech talents, they are so much fun, but I hate not being on the front lines. I love a mixture of combat/tech, but not the infiltrator version -. My favourites are snipers, assault rifles and overload (ED in ME2) - which just happen to be Garrus' specialities . Therefore I went with a soldier who messed around with tech when she was young. I could have done an assault rifle infiltrator, but that doesn't work in ME2 until the collector ship, and continuity is important to me. Also I HATE the idea of the tactical cloak, so I have no business being infiltrator. Always hated rogues. My Shep is about as subtle as an anvil on crack with an elephant riding it. To me, it also fits the story better that a combat specialist would be chosen to lead the war. YMMV however.

Basically, what I'm saying is that playing soldier can be a tactical / role playing decision, not necessarily just because it is default. Although, more than any other combined ... that's definitely some people going with default

Even if there are powers you dislike, you still get my point. You have all these options, it'd be a shame to completely ignore them.

I like to mix it up, myself. I've made three Shepards so far and they're all the combination classes. My Reave-ing, shotgun-toting Shepard makes me happiest though. And with his assault rifle and Overload...Garrus does a pretty good job of completing her XD

[Kim Shepard]

About the Reds - they never said exactly what Shepard's old gang did, so it's open for us to create our own theories. Killing many innocent turian civilians and children is a much worse crime than Shepard killing someone who tried to kill or arrest them, so even if that's what we put in the backstory, the Reds have changed in a way that Shepard might not agree with. I don't think Garrus would get into a romance with anyone who supported that sort of thing (ignoring the fact that Garrus won't comment on it in-game), but I assume the Earthborns we're talking about here did not approve.

My Earthborn Ruthless couldn't care less if Garrus insulted other gangs, or even his former gang after he found out what they turned into. He's not angry with Garrus for killing other criminals, and he doesn't think about the fact that, if things were different, it might have been him against Garrus. He met a lot of bad cops and a few good ones, same with criminals. He judged Garrus based on what he saw when they met on the Citadel, and didn't let his opinion of others influence that. He hopes Garrus would judge him the same way (and he did).

Shepard's enlistment age: eighteen for both Earthborns and Spacers, with Colonists being listed as a few years after they turned sixteen, so I would guess eighteen for all. That age and much younger is definitely old enough to be held responsible for murder, but they can have reasons. Garrus wouldn't blame Shepard for fighting to survive. Sure, the Earthborns might have killed people who weren't all that bad, but just like the in-game missions, they can't think about someone's morality and worth when that person is shooting at them. Even Garrus risks harming innocents when he decides it's necessary (Dr. Michel, Saleon's hostages, and to some extent the bystanders in his loyalty mission).

I normally don't read fanfics, but I'd like to see how it works out for Sia's Shepard and Garrus. I've always been curious about how that conversation would have went, with so many outcomes being possible because of our Shepards' different pasts.

And on a completely different subject, Garrus as a squadmate in combat. I've realized that he works well with any Shepard - Shepard can fight in close combat while Garrus uses the sniper rifle and tech attacks from afar, Garrus can use the assault rile in close combat while Shepard uses the sniper/biotics/tech from afar, they could stay behind cover together or rush onto the battlefield together. There's a lot of variety, which might be why players choose him so often even if they only care about the combat.

Modifié par Kim Shepard, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[LessThanKate]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Shepard's enlistment age: eighteen for both Earthborns and Spacers, with Colonists being listed as a few years after they turned sixteen, so I would guess eighteen for all. That age and much younger is definitely old enough to be held responsible for murder, but they can have reasons. Garrus wouldn't blame Shepard for fighting to survive. Sure, the Earthborns might have killed people who weren't all that bad, but just like the in-game missions, they can't think about someone's morality and worth when that person is shooting at them. Even Garrus risks harming innocents when he decides it's necessary (Dr. Michel, Saleon's hostages, and to some extent the bystanders in his loyalty mission).

A young Earthborn Shepard would be accountable, yes, but being in his/her early thirties, and with everything that's happened in between, it could feel like a lifetime ago. Garrus only knows current Shepard; maybe he would have hated younger Shepard, but we'll never know for sure. And, as you say, it's for survival.

Makes me wish there was a little more detail to the background stories. I know it's probably vague for personal interpretation (in which case, mine was a lot tamer than others have imagined) I wonder, at what point an Earthborn Shepard realizes when things have gone too far. Or maybe he/she just enlisted to stay out of jail? That seemed like a Renegade thing to do.

If I recall correctly, Garrus mentioned, in the makeup of his Omega vigilante group, criminals or mercernaries wanting to atone. So I think he can appreciate that, if nothing else.

[Kim Shepard]

I like the fact that we're given very few details about Shepard's past. Shepard is our character, so it's great that we can fill in the blanks. For other characters though, the more we know about them, the better. I've created a whole background theory for Saren that was influenced in some ways by my Shepards, and that's great too, but the details may or may not be true. I'd like to know his real story. There are a few more details about Garrus that I'd like to know too.

In the case of my Earthborn Ruthless, he definitely joined to stay out of jail. The Alliance knew about his skills and wanted the young powerhouse on their side, while he wanted to keep his freedom as much as possible. He doesn't regret anything he did because he believes that everything he did was justified. I think Garrus would agree if he knew the whole story, but for now, he just knows Shepard well enough to trust his reasons. Garrus knows he's not very cruel or a common criminal - he has standards, and there are crimes that completely disgust him (like his old gang poisoning turian medical supplies, and knowing that probably wasn't the first time). Despite their different backgrounds, their sense of justice turned out very similar. The two of them agreed completely about Saleon and Sidonis.

[Tyrium]

LessThanKate wrote...

Tyrium wrote...

Basically, what I'm saying is that playing soldier can be a tactical / role playing decision, not necessarily just because it is default. Although, more than any other combined ... that's definitely some people going with default

Even if there are powers you dislike, you still get my point. You have all these options, it'd be a shame to completely ignore them.

I certainly do. It really is a shame when people just go with the default. I chose soldier because it fits my playstyle and lets me have the talents I want, not because it's default. What's the point in playing a game centred around a specific character if you don't make him/her your own?
 
Ah yes, Reave, I loved that power. I don't use it anymore since my Shep's not a biotic, but I really loved that thing.  I picked Reave for my vanguard renegade manshep run, and I really do miss it. Will have to try sentinel some time, but aren't they really weak in Me1? Engineer was a lot of fun, but since I only made that character to unlock electronics, I havn't played her much past the citadel.

I always take Garrus with me, and usually Kasumi or Mordin so its about even tech/combat. I really need to start experimenting with biotic companions...