29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

Ok I have to ask this:

How many times have you run across people who say that romancing Garrus is bestiality?



I just got that on facebook and wanted to ask this.

[Sialater]

More than should really occur. What gets me is that these same people don't think the same of Liara.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sialater wrote...

More than should really occur. What gets me is that these same people don't think the same of Liara.

Really?  I've never bumped into it.  Then again, I'm sporadically active at best in the fandom, so maybe I just don't run into it much.  I guess the reason would be that turians really do look very ALIEN, whereas asari are basically blue humans with funny scalps, at least in visual appearance.

[Sialater]

But their entire argument is based on them being alien. Last I checked... so were asari.

[Kim Shepard]

kglaser wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
some people claim that Garrus and Shepard did not do anything for two hours.
When they were alone.
With Wine.
In a bedroom.

This is awesome. XD

Agreed. xD It's hilarious, and so true... for a lot of our FemSheps, anyway.

I do like the fact that Garrus got a sweet scene, even if it's not completely obvious that they did everything they researched. If it was a scene like Jacob's or Miranda's, then people would say that it was just a casual friends-with-benefits thing (even more than they do now). Although, I don't see anything casual about "you guys could die trying this."

Also, the first thing my Shepard did after the suicide mission was push the "call Garrus up for cuddles" button. So yeah, plenty of time to celebrate surviving the suicide mission.

[Reptilian Rob]

Collider wrote...

We're having an interesting discussion on whether Garrus is noble. What do you think?

Not only is he noble, but cute as well.

It's a winning formula.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 28 novembre 2010 - 07:31 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Collider wrote...

We're having an interesting discussion on whether Garrus is noble. What do you think?

Not only is he noble, but cute as well.

It's a winning formula.

I think it depends on what you mean by noble.  Is Garrus fundamentally a good person?  Undoubtedly.  He's 100% for protecting the innocent, punishing the wicked, and doing good across the galaxy, and his dedication to fighting the good fight never wavers.  He's compassionate, loyal, and unquestionably brave.  There's a kind of purity to Garrus's fundamental goodness that doesn't really exist in many video game characters.

However, if we're talking about noble in terms of chivalry or the "Lawful Good" alignment of D&D, not so much.  Garrus can also be hot-headed, vengeful, bitter, and ruthless.  He doesn't care about things like treating opponents with honor or showing mercy.  If he thinks someone has to die, they die, and not always in the quickest or cleanest of ways.  More of a Knight in Sour Armor than a Knight in Shining Armor.

...of course, the edge to Garrus's personality just makes him sexier as far as I'm concerned.  Who needs outdated notions of nobility when you have sexy scarred Turian Space Batman? 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 28 novembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Mresa]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Collider wrote...

We're having an interesting discussion on whether Garrus is noble. What do you think?

Not only is he noble, but cute as well.

It's a winning formula.

I think it depends on what you mean by noble.  Is Garrus fundamentally a good person?  Undoubtedly.  He's 100% for protecting the innocent, punishing the wicked, and doing good across the galaxy, and his dedication to fighting the good fight never wavers.  He's compassionate, loyal, and unquestionably brave.  There's a kind of purity to Garrus's fundamental goodness that doesn't really exist in many video game characters.

However, if we're talking about noble in terms of chivalry or the "Lawful Good" alignment of D&D, not so much.  Garrus can also be hot-headed, vengeful, bitter, and ruthless.  He doesn't care about things like treating opponents with honor or showing mercy.  If he thinks someone has to die, they die, and not always in the quickest or cleanest of ways.  More of a Knight in Sour Armor than a Knight in Shining Armor.

...of course, the edge to Garrus's personality just makes him sexier as far as I'm concerned.  Who needs outdated notions of nobility when you have sexy scarred Turian Space Batman? 

Amen to this 

[Alienmorph]

I consider Garrus more close to the Punisher than to Batman ... they're both deluded soldiers, with deaths to revenge and a visceral love for fireweapons. Just imagine Garrus with a black armor with a white skull painted on it and don't say me that he's not cool xD

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok I have to ask this:
How many times have you run across people who say that romancing Garrus is bestiality?

I just got that on facebook and wanted to ask this.

I don't have to worry about this. Because such a person wouldn't last long...

[Mresa]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok I have to ask this:
How many times have you run across people who say that romancing Garrus is bestiality?

I just got that on facebook and wanted to ask this.

Hmm no since I got no friends who plays video games. I for myself don't find it to be even close to bestiality for Garrus is too "humane" to be even referred to an animal.

[Brass_Buckles]

Re, on whether they did anything:



For some Femsheps, maybe they just give Garrus a teaser for what's to come. After the mission. Incentive to survive, much?



Honestly I think it varies from Shepard to Shepard. Some of mine definitely would take advantage of the moment. Some would rather just build up for it and maybe get themselves (and Garrus) comfortable with the idea so they could have their fun post-Omega 4 relay.



Alas, I am having to start all over again on ME1 thanks to BDtS not installing... This is getting old, replaying the first few hours over and over again. And that was one of my favorite parts of ME1, too--the BDtS DLC. So sad.

[Sialater]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Re, on whether they did anything:

For some Femsheps, maybe they just give Garrus a teaser for what's to come. After the mission. Incentive to survive, much?

Honestly I think it varies from Shepard to Shepard. Some of mine definitely would take advantage of the moment. Some would rather just build up for it and maybe get themselves (and Garrus) comfortable with the idea so they could have their fun post-Omega 4 relay.
.

I'm also not sure any Shep, no matter their romances would be "in the mood," after their entire crew has been abducted.  Chakwas is Shep's friend, too.

[Reptilian Rob]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Collider wrote...

We're having an interesting discussion on whether Garrus is noble. What do you think?

Not only is he noble, but cute as well.

It's a winning formula.

I think it depends on what you mean by noble.  Is Garrus fundamentally a good person?  Undoubtedly.  He's 100% for protecting the innocent, punishing the wicked, and doing good across the galaxy, and his dedication to fighting the good fight never wavers.  He's compassionate, loyal, and unquestionably brave.  There's a kind of purity to Garrus's fundamental goodness that doesn't really exist in many video game characters.

However, if we're talking about noble in terms of chivalry or the "Lawful Good" alignment of D&D, not so much.  Garrus can also be hot-headed, vengeful, bitter, and ruthless.  He doesn't care about things like treating opponents with honor or showing mercy.  If he thinks someone has to die, they die, and not always in the quickest or cleanest of ways.  More of a Knight in Sour Armor than a Knight in Shining Armor.

...of course, the edge to Garrus's personality just makes him sexier as far as I'm concerned.  Who needs outdated notions of nobility when you have sexy scarred Turian Space Batman? 

I always saw Garrus as someone who is looking for a guiding hand, kind of a "Lost Soul" mentality. But, that's what he has Shepard for.

And that awkwardness is what makes him adorable. :3

[ciaweth]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok I have to ask this:
How many times have you run across people who say that romancing Garrus is bestiality?

I just got that on facebook and wanted to ask this.

Those people are failing at language and are probably proud of doing so.

Shepard + Garrus = interspecies relationship

Shepard + Urz = bestiality

[Sialater]

ciaweth wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok I have to ask this:
How many times have you run across people who say that romancing Garrus is bestiality?

I just got that on facebook and wanted to ask this.

Those people are failing at language and are probably proud of doing so.

Shepard + Garrus = interspecies relationship

Shepard + Urz = bestiality

ROTFLMAO!  I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

It occured to me that Garrus in ME2 seems to have his character inspired by Simo Hayha. I mean, he held off hundreds of soldiers with a sniper rifle and then got half his face blown off and lived. Familiar...very familiar...

Similar to how Thane is almost exactly like Léon from the French film of the same name.

[Brass_Buckles]

Sialater wrote...

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Re, on whether they did anything:

For some Femsheps, maybe they just give Garrus a teaser for what's to come. After the mission. Incentive to survive, much?

Honestly I think it varies from Shepard to Shepard. Some of mine definitely would take advantage of the moment. Some would rather just build up for it and maybe get themselves (and Garrus) comfortable with the idea so they could have their fun post-Omega 4 relay.
.

I'm also not sure any Shep, no matter their romances would be "in the mood," after their entire crew has been abducted.  Chakwas is Shep's friend, too.

This too, except that there's also the thought that, "Well, this might be the last chance you ever have to hook up with anyone, so if you care about each other... well.  Better get to it."

As for Garrus and nobility...

Noble?  No.  Someone who'll kick a guy when he's down, no matter how horrible that other guy may be, is not noble.  He's honorable, to an extent, but he's also quite jaded.  I also think in the end it's based on how you interpret him and whether you'd rather paragon or renegade him.  A paragon Garrus is going to care more about other people, even when they don't deserve it.  That's a noble ideal there.  A renegade Garrus cares about getting the job done, and he isn't going to worry too much about what happens to those who stand in his way--because he thinks he's working for the ultimate greater good, and doesn't see the immediate harm he may be causing.  Either way he'll never stop caring about people he thinks deserve it, but that alone isn't "nobility."  It's honorable, and it's being ultimately good-hearted, but to me, nobility is being greater than your own interests.  Doing what you think is right because it satisfies you personally (whether it be killing Saleon or that turian in ME2 whose name is suddenly eluding me for whatever reason) is not the same as doing what is right because it is just (trying to turn Saleon in to the authorities, letting the turian go because he's not enough of a man to bother feeling vengeful against in the first place--and because what does cold-blooded murder make you, anyway?).

Hmmm.  So I think I've just hit on something here.  Garrus seems endlessly to do things that may be considered "good," but which we (I hope) all know aren't "right."  And "right" isn't necessarily always "good," but nor is "good" always necessarily "right."  Becoming a vigilante on Omega to protect the populace?  That's a good thing, but we all know it's not a "right" thing--vigilantism is illegal in the real world for a reason.  Aside from starting revenge-wars, a would-be vigilante could also get seriously hurt, or could harm the wrong person.  Not to mention, how many people have to die to Garrus when some of them are just kids, too young to be really horrible people yet?  I think the earlier comment that he's chaotic good is probably onto something.

As to the renegade/paragon thing... People seem to define these in a lot of different ways.  My personal take is that the paragon always tries to avoid as much conflict and death as possible, whereas the renegade will remove or browbeat anyone perceived as somehow either being in the way or disrupting the necessary order of things--maybe just because he/she doesn't think of any other possible solution.  Both may work for the greater good, although a renegade can be perceived as evil due to his/her ruthlessness, and a paragon's compassion is sometimes called stupidity.  And so, Garrus is definitely more renegade than paragon.  He does not generally stop to have a chat with the criminals he pursues.  Their options are death or a nasty beating.  I would argue that while a renegade can be "good," the paragon is more "noble," because a noble person cares about the greater order of things, not just the immediate state of things.  Not that there's anything wrong with not being a noble person, especially if you're still honorable.

Personally I like that Garrus is not a perfect person, that he might have inner struggles with himself, that he is gung-ho about doing good things but seems to bungle up when it comes to doing good things the right way.  Maybe he wants to do things right (I get the feeling he does), but he lacks the patience and the foresight.

It was mentioned in the past on this thread (or one of its other iterations) that some people couldn't see a paragon Shepard romancing Garrus.  I can--because even though their methods would differ, and even though Shepard can tear Garrus a new one sometimes, he's still a good person.  I think Shepard would understand he means well, and Garrus probably would understand that Shepard only wants to keep people from being hurt--and one of those people might be Garrus himself.  Of course it also depends on the version of paragon Shepard you're playing, and how you perceive Garrus (at least in that playthrough).  But with all the times they stand together, a few arguments wouldn't necessarily keep them apart.

[LessThanKate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
some people claim that Garrus and Shepard did not do anything for two hours.
When they were alone.
With Wine.
In a bedroom.

Of course they did nothing. Shepard was walking normally during the final mission, wasn't she?

No, but...I imagine some funny business went on. Still, I have to say I prefer they kept it mild. I am somewhat conservative about the whole thing, and as much as I enjoy several of the games' romances, I've never been able to fully shake the "sex=love" idea implemented.

And I appreciate the...irony in where the whole thing went. It was just going to be an...experiment, and as the time drew nearer, Garrus got more nervous and it became clearer that feelings were involved.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Collider wrote...

We're having an interesting discussion on whether Garrus is noble. What do you think?

Not only is he noble, but cute as well.

It's a winning formula.

I think it depends on what you mean by noble.  Is Garrus fundamentally a good person?  Undoubtedly.  He's 100% for protecting the innocent, punishing the wicked, and doing good across the galaxy, and his dedication to fighting the good fight never wavers.  He's compassionate, loyal, and unquestionably brave.  There's a kind of purity to Garrus's fundamental goodness that doesn't really exist in many video game characters.

However, if we're talking about noble in terms of chivalry or the "Lawful Good" alignment of D&D, not so much.  Garrus can also be hot-headed, vengeful, bitter, and ruthless.  He doesn't care about things like treating opponents with honor or showing mercy.  If he thinks someone has to die, they die, and not always in the quickest or cleanest of ways.  More of a Knight in Sour Armor than a Knight in Shining Armor.

I was just thinking that, Knight in Sour Armor. That trope fits him near perfectly.

Noble? Dang, I wish I could say yes or no, but when it comes to morals, it can vary depending on one's own view of things. Cynical and hardened might be better words to describe Garrus (in the second game, of course), but...I think, in a way, there's some nobility about him. Might not be the single most accurate word, but I think it's there. After all, one doesn't just quit a comfortable job into the most crime-ridden pit in the galaxy just for a change of atmosphere.

If nothing else, noble intentions. Although, you know what they say about good intentions...which is ironic, considering his moniker.

Speaking of which, I don't think I ever really appreciated the humor there. Shepard dies, goes to the Afterlife so he/she can recruit an Archangel. Fantastic XD

Modifié par LessThanKate, 30 novembre 2010 - 03:24 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

This too, except that there's also the thought that, "Well, this might be the last chance you ever have to hook up with anyone, so if you care about each other... well.  Better get to it."

As for Garrus and nobility...

Noble?  No.  Someone who'll kick a guy when he's down, no matter how horrible that other guy may be, is not noble.  He's honorable, to an extent, but he's also quite jaded.  I also think in the end it's based on how you interpret him and whether you'd rather paragon or renegade him.  A paragon Garrus is going to care more about other people, even when they don't deserve it.  That's a noble ideal there.  A renegade Garrus cares about getting the job done, and he isn't going to worry too much about what happens to those who stand in his way--because he thinks he's working for the ultimate greater good, and doesn't see the immediate harm he may be causing.  Either way he'll never stop caring about people he thinks deserve it, but that alone isn't "nobility."  It's honorable, and it's being ultimately good-hearted, but to me, nobility is being greater than your own interests.  Doing what you think is right because it satisfies you personally (whether it be killing Saleon or that turian in ME2 whose name is suddenly eluding me for whatever reason) is not the same as doing what is right because it is just (trying to turn Saleon in to the authorities, letting the turian go because he's not enough of a man to bother feeling vengeful against in the first place--and because what does cold-blooded murder make you, anyway?).

Hmmm.  So I think I've just hit on something here.  Garrus seems endlessly to do things that may be considered "good," but which we (I hope) all know aren't "right."  And "right" isn't necessarily always "good," but nor is "good" always necessarily "right."  Becoming a vigilante on Omega to protect the populace?  That's a good thing, but we all know it's not a "right" thing--vigilantism is illegal in the real world for a reason.  Aside from starting revenge-wars, a would-be vigilante could also get seriously hurt, or could harm the wrong person.  Not to mention, how many people have to die to Garrus when some of them are just kids, too young to be really horrible people yet?  I think the earlier comment that he's chaotic good is probably onto something.

As to the renegade/paragon thing... People seem to define these in a lot of different ways.  My personal take is that the paragon always tries to avoid as much conflict and death as possible, whereas the renegade will remove or browbeat anyone perceived as somehow either being in the way or disrupting the necessary order of things--maybe just because he/she doesn't think of any other possible solution.  Both may work for the greater good, although a renegade can be perceived as evil due to his/her ruthlessness, and a paragon's compassion is sometimes called stupidity.  And so, Garrus is definitely more renegade than paragon.  He does not generally stop to have a chat with the criminals he pursues.  Their options are death or a nasty beating.  I would argue that while a renegade can be "good," the paragon is more "noble," because a noble person cares about the greater order of things, not just the immediate state of things.  Not that there's anything wrong with not being a noble person, especially if you're still honorable.

Personally I like that Garrus is not a perfect person, that he might have inner struggles with himself, that he is gung-ho about doing good things but seems to bungle up when it comes to doing good things the right way.  Maybe he wants to do things right (I get the feeling he does), but he lacks the patience and the foresight.

It was mentioned in the past on this thread (or one of its other iterations) that some people couldn't see a paragon Shepard romancing Garrus.  I can--because even though their methods would differ, and even though Shepard can tear Garrus a new one sometimes, he's still a good person.  I think Shepard would understand he means well, and Garrus probably would understand that Shepard only wants to keep people from being hurt--and one of those people might be Garrus himself.  Of course it also depends on the version of paragon Shepard you're playing, and how you perceive Garrus (at least in that playthrough).  But with all the times they stand together, a few arguments wouldn't necessarily keep them apart.

As a Garrus fanboy, I commend you for the excellent post.

Garrus is much like a student in the first game, struggling to stay good in a bad galaxy, but frustrated that some people are holding him back. Renegade Shepard is a symbol for him, that having no restrictions and black and white morality is a good thing. Kill the bad guys no matter the cost. 

Whereas Paragon Shepard teaches him that not everything is black and white.("Gray...I don't know what to do with gray.") Bad guys are not always purely bad.

In the second game, Garrus has tried to do his best in the bad galaxy, but has become corrupted with vengeance and hatred. In a sense, he has given up living his life, and instead focusing on surviving it. Paragon Shepard can lead him back, not as a teacher, as an equal, even to a point where he can forgive and once again focus on living life, trying to be good. Their relationship can develop from friendship to romance from the strong bond between them from this.

As for Renegade in the second, I cannot speculate. I have yet to play my renegade Shepard(Oops).

As for him killing kids who worked for the merc band, so did Shepard.(Although it never points it out) Even Paragon Shepard, you shoot them in the back when you reveal your not really with them, you can't see under the helmets, they may not be all bad people, but they are trying to kill you.

And Garrus had held that position for over a DAY with a single shot sniper rifle, cut him some slack guys.

[Sable Rhapsody]

LessThanKate wrote...

Noble? Dang, I wish I could say yes or no, but when it comes to morals, it can vary depending on one's own view of things. Cynical and hardened might be better words to describe Garrus (in the second game, of course), but...I think, in a way, there's some nobility about him. Might not be the single most accurate word, but I think it's there. After all, one doesn't just quit a comfortable job into the most crime-ridden pit in the galaxy just for a change of atmosphere.

I'm not sure that I'd use the word noble per se.  It's more that Garrus is so incredibly dedicated to doing good.  I think in some ways, he's as dedicated as Samara, except he's not bound by a code.  You can see it in his actions, hear it in the way he says, "I've always hated injustice" during his sidequest.  BTW, was I the only one who found that line terribly sexy? 

Brass_Buckles wrote...

It was mentioned in the past on this thread (or one of its other iterations) that some people couldn't see a paragon Shepard romancing Garrus.  I can--because even though their methods would differ, and even though Shepard can tear Garrus a new one sometimes, he's still a good person.  I think Shepard would understand he means well, and Garrus probably would understand that Shepard only wants to keep people from being hurt--and one of those people might be Garrus himself.  Of course it also depends on the version of paragon Shepard you're playing, and how you perceive Garrus (at least in that playthrough).  But with all the times they stand together, a few arguments wouldn't necessarily keep them apart.

I think Garrus might take issue with both pure Paragon and pure Renegade Shepard--not to the point where they couldn't be friends or LIs, but there are some huge disagreements of philosophy there.  Pure Paragon Shep might frustrate him by being too cautious or forgiving.  Pure Renegade Shep is someone I think even Garrus might find too callous and ruthless--Garrus is after all a very empathetic and compassionate person.  How many other people build a team in the hellhole of Omega just because they see complete strangers being abused?  More balanced Sheps--Paragade or Renegon--would probably get along swimmingly with Garrus, especially Renegon.

[LessThanKate]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I'm not sure that I'd use the word noble per se.  It's more that Garrus is so incredibly dedicated to doing good.  I think in some ways, he's as dedicated as Samara, except he's not bound by a code.  You can see it in his actions, hear it in the way he says, "I've always hated injustice" during his sidequest.  BTW, was I the only one who found that line terribly sexy? 

Of course it's sexy, but it's Garrus, so isn't that a little redundant?

I think I know what you're getting at, but Samara follows the Code for the sole purpose of...well, following the Code. It's like a crutch for her, which I guess is why she borders "Lawful Stupid".

But that's just it. I think that dedication is noble. People can talk about all the wrong in the world, but how many actually get up and do something about it? The fact that he went through so much for no reason other than to help...surely comes close to nobility.

I mean, I'm not saying it's kind or compassionate or even reasonable. Those things can be related to, but are not the same, as being noble. That greater good approach...starts out noble, at least, though I guess it gets complicated when you dirty your hands.

And if we're going to rate nobility against the other squad mate characters, I'd say he's among the closest to it. If not number one, at least in the top five!

Modifié par LessThanKate, 30 novembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

LessThanKate wrote...

Speaking of which, I don't think I ever really appreciated the humor there. Shepard dies, goes to the Afterlife so he/she can recruit an Archangel. Fantastic XD

 Wow, I never noticed that before! That's brilliant, i wonder if it was done on purpose.
As to the whole noble thing, Garrus has noble intentions, but the means in which he accomplishes his aims often bend the rules, he likes to get things done, and can let revenge cloud his judgement. So i would not call him nobel, but neither would i call him 'dishonourable.' He obviously cares much for his crew, his squad on omega, and is friendly to people on the Normandy, he can be considered noble in that context. But when it comes to his enemies, Garrus is merciless and vengeful. He can, if unchecked, punish his victims too much. But he does it with the intent of carrying out justice.

[Sable Rhapsody]

LessThanKate wrote...
But that's just it. I think that dedication is noble. People can talk about all the wrong in the world, but how many actually get up and do something about it? The fact that he went through so much for no reason other than to help...surely comes close to nobility.

Huh.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  In fact, I think Garrus is one of the few party members on your crew who does good solely for the sake of doing good.  Jack, Grunt, Thane, Kasumi, Wrex, and Legion don't seem to have any such motivation. Other squaddies are more arguable, but ultimately, I think Garrus's motivations are purest, for lack of a better word.  He puts himself through hell and back between ME1 and ME2 not for Cerberus or the Migrant Fleet or the Alliance--he does it as an unaffiliated vigilante because he wants to kick back at the bastards murdering innocent people.  He doesn't necessarily have the most clear-headed attitude, but his goals are admirable, even noble.

It reminds me a little bit of the line from Watchmen, by Alan Moore, describing the vigilante superheroes:  "We do this because we are compelled."  Something compels Garrus to protect the good and punish the wicked, something beyond a code or an external duty.  That right there is incredibly awesome.  And sexy.  Always sexy.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Veeeery sexy.