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[Sable Rhapsody]

I don't remember exactly what Miranda says...something along the lines of how horrible a leader Jacob's father is. What I liked best was how she went behind TIM's back to get the information to Jacob.



And I really, really like the "dangerous life" quote. It fits beautifully for my FemShep, both in how she describes herself and how other people see her. She's been killing people since childhood--death, danger, and adrenaline are all she knows. It's part of why I love the ME2 crew--they're by and large a bunch of crazy, terrifying badasses who somehow unite under the leadership of an even scarier and more badass Shepard Pity it only crops up in-game in relation to Thane, and then only if you're friendly with Kelly.

[FoxShadowblade]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I haven't done a renegade through ME2 yet either (gee, thanks, computer issues that lasted nearly two months... and caused me to have to start ME1 over, again), but I do sometimes pick an option other than what my current Shepard would pick, just to see what would happen if I did.  Then I go back and reload.  Basically, Garrus doesn't say anything to you after you renegade him in ME2.  He still seems tightly wound but won't say a word about what he just did--which amounts to cold-blooded murder against a guy who probably wasn't worth the bullet.  But I like to think whatshisname can be redeemed (why can't I remember that name???).  I think the fact that he closes off like that tells me two things:  First, that renegaded, Garrus has a lot of anger boiling under the surface that he's not expressing.  Second, Shepard has just led him down the path of vengeance and hatred.  He's another step farther from the person he was in the beginning, a little bit more jaded and a lot more unforgiving.  I want to think that he'll still keep caring about those who need protection even if you renegade him, but I'm not sure he will.  His reactions during Jack's recruitment and your initial return to the Citadel are... interesting, to say the least.  It's hard to tell whether he admires or despises the brutality--or is so hardened by his life thus far that he simply doesn't care.

If on the other hand you paragon Garrus, you're teaching him that vengeance isn't going to solve anything, and that there are indeed shades of gray.  At the same time, by second-guessing this decision that Garrus has clearly made (even though he seems a bit overly defensive about it to the degree I think he's not as sure about it as he claims to be), you're also undermining him in a way.  He says he knows he wants to do this, but you're telling him you don't think he really does, that this isn't really who he is.  But who are you to tell him who he is or isn't?  I prefer the paragon path here, just because I think the regret of going through with cold-blooded murder against someone who's not trying to kill him at the moment (in fact, who lives in fear of him and guilt for what he's done) would eat Garrus up inside.  The guilt brought on by the renegade path might be the thing that turns him from being a good person to being the same kind of monster as Saren.  Something about his behavior during his ME2 loyalty mission kept reminding me of Saren.  I'm not sure what it was, apart from his general demeanor.

Yeah I got that feeling too, like he could turn down a path like Saren did. Because, I'm sure Saren was at one point a great guy with morals(Let's face it, you can convince him to pull a Darth Vader at the end of ME1). Then again, maybe it was simply the cybernetics on Garrus.

On the subject of renegading him, I've been playing my renegade playthrough, Garrus seems...callous instead of emotionally upset during his recruitment mission. It might just be me, but everything seems a little darker and off than if he spared Saleon in the first game.

[ElectricZ]

Have completed (for real this time) Second, starring our favorite turian as he works to keep the peace between an increasingly agitated squad and the ship's Cerberus XO.

It centers around the squad's efforts to get Garrus to take Miranda's place as XO, and while I've got my own interpretation of what would happen, I'd like to hear what other folks think Garrus would do. Would a turian by nature be disinclined to go around the established order (Miranda)? Or would the self described "not a very good turian" leap at the opportunity for advancement, especially if he saw Miranda as impeding the mission?

Truth be told, my Shep would have dropped Miranda like a freshly popped heatsink when Garrus showed up... Not because Miranda was a poor XO, but because...
A) Garrus has got my back when it comes to Cerberus
Garrus has got my back when it comes to the Council
C) Garrus has got my back when it comes to the geth (pre-heresy. Legion's a bud.)
D) Garrus has got my back when it comes to the reapers
E) Garrus has got my back when it comes to the Suns, Eclipse, Blood Pack, and any other two-bit wannabe gangstas
F) Garrus has got my back when it comes to...
...
...
...
Y) Garrus will be there if I need him.
Z) it's Garrus. 'nuff said.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 02 décembre 2010 - 02:22 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

ElectricZ wrote...

Have completed (for real this time) Second, starring our favorite turian as he works to keep the peace between an increasingly agitated squad and the ship's Cerberus XO.

It centers around the squad's efforts to get Garrus to take Miranda's place as XO, and while I've got my own interpretation of what would happen, I'd like to hear what other folks think Garrus would do. Would a turian by nature be disinclined to go around the established order (Miranda)? Or would the self described "not a very good turian" leap at the opportunity for advancement, especially if he saw Miranda as impeding the mission?

OK, first of all, I'm biased 

I doubt Garrus trusts anything to do with Cerberus as far as he could throw them.  He answers to Shep, not Miranda, and certainly not TIM.  It's an attitude shared by a lot of your squaddies.  However, Garrus does consistently express a desire not to rock the boat.  It comes up most in the romance, but he also goes out of his way to reassure Shep that he and the Cerberus crew are working together after his recruitment.  I don't think he'd do anything about Miranda as long as she shares his goals of bringing down the Collectors.  He's not Tali, and he's not out to antagonize anyone.

In addition, I'm not sure if Garrus would necessarily WANT to be XO.  Your XO is your second-in-command on board the ship.  Miranda's job is to keep tabs on the crew, send operations reports back to TIM, deal with all the files and dossiers and red tape so Shep doesn't have to.  It's as much a desk job as it is part of field command.  

Finally, I think regardless of the squad's opinions on Miranda, whether they act on them will depend heavily on Shep and Miranda themselves.  If you tweak the plot so that Miranda's loyalty mission is fail-able, I can see her losing her cool and becoming an impediment.  Otherwise, she might be a Cerberus b****, but she's nothing if not highly professional, even if Shep takes Jack's side in their loyalty confrontation.  As for Shep, unless Shep is 100% on board with this, nothing's going to happen.  No one crosses Shep.  Just to give an example, my Shep loathed Cerberus.  Her relations with Miranda and Jacob were understandably chilly.  But regardless of her feelings, she respected Miranda's determination and skill, and the two of them were very similar in personality.  They built a cold but respectful working relationship into a very solid friendship.  She would have smacked down any challenge to the ship's status quo like the fist of an angry god.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 02 décembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[Kim Shepard]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

It's part of why I love the ME2 crew--they're by and large a bunch of crazy, terrifying badasses who somehow unite under the leadership of an even scarier and more badass Shepard

And this is why I like the ME2 crew better than the ME1 crew. Wrex is the only exception, but he was awesome enough in ME2 to make up for not being on the crew (and I'm still hoping for a krogan army).

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Yeah I got that feeling too, like he could turn down a path like Saren did. Because, I'm sure Saren was at one point a great guy with morals(Let's face it, you can convince him to pull a Darth Vader at the end of ME1). Then again, maybe it was simply the cybernetics on Garrus.

Saren definitely has morals, or "standards" as the trope words it. I doubt he ever had the same morals as a Paragon Shepard, but neither does Garrus. A lot of the things Renegade Shepard does are very similar to Saren, and one of the conversations with Anderson actually gives the opportunity for Shepard to agree that Saren's plan at the factory (the one in Revelation) was a good idea. But turians in general are brutal. They believe in total war, and that was basically the method Saren used in his plan. Even some of the Cerberus News updates show how brutal the turian military is, and it seemed to suggest that was normal. So Saren isn't that different from the others.

Garrus and Saren have a few things in common, that's true - and it's not just the vengeance. Garrus was obviously brutal in his interrogations during the Saleon case, from what he says to Shepard. I'm sure that some of their similarities just come from the fact that they were both trained by the turian military. C-Sec didn't seem to have any objections to it either. There are too many differences between them for Garrus to "become Saren" though. Something like that would involve ignoring a major part of his character. Can he become more like Saren? Sure, in the same ways that he's becoming more like Renegade Shepard. Renegade Shepard doesn't try to change Garrus or influence him down a path that could make him turn out like Saren though, he/she just agrees with what Garrus already believes.

And I wonder about the cybernetics too. It would be interesting if the ones on Garrus' jaw/mandibles look like Saren's. It's my theory that they would serve the same purpose, so if the appearance of those cybernetics didn't change much in 20 years, they could be similar.

Now, I should probably mention that Saren is my favorite character and I always play the Renegade path in Garrus' personal missions, so I've thought about this a lot. xD

ElectricZ wrote...

I'd like to hear what other folks think Garrus would do. Would a turian by nature be disinclined to go around the established order (Miranda)? Or would the self described "not a very good turian" leap at the opportunity for advancement, especially if he saw Miranda as impeding the mission?

Turians in general would be very unlikely to go behind their superior's back. Most of them would follow orders even if they were bad orders, which is where Garrus is different. Miranda has never given any orders that were bad or didn't make sense though, at least not on the Normandy. I don't remember her giving any orders to Garrus at all, and he said that the Cerberus crew has been nice enough to him. Garrus is not the type to start problems with people, especially when he has no reason to.

For the other question, most turians would not just jump at the chance for a promotion if they didn't feel that they're ready for it, and in turian culture, the blame falls on whoever promoted them to a job that they couldn't do. In your fanfic, that would be the squad. So not only would Garrus feel guilty for letting them down if he ever messed up, he just doesn't seem ready to lead again so soon after the death of his team, which he still blames himself for. Then considering the fact that the XO reports to TIM, the leader of a "humanity first" organization, and involves a ton of work that he hated in C-Sec, makes it a wrong career choice for Garrus.

Modifié par Kim Shepard, 02 décembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

It's part of why I love the ME2 crew--they're by and large a bunch of crazy, terrifying badasses who somehow unite under the leadership of an even scarier and more badass Shepard

And this is why I like the ME2 crew better than the ME1 crew. Wrex is the only exception, but he was awesome enough in ME2 to make up for not being on the crew (and I'm still hoping for a krogan army).

I do admit to having moments in ME1 where I felt like I was babysitting these people rather than working with them.  Liara and Tali in particular were more like my ducky little sisters than my crew members.  Of course, both of them took a level in badass between the games, and I was so relieved in ME2 to find that everyone was capable of pulling their own weight.  A weight of awesomitude.

How do y'all think Garrus feels about the ME1 Virmire survivor?  I spared Ash with my FemShep and never romanced Kaidan, so there were no conflicts there.  I imagine Garrus might have a slightly more forgiving attitude in that scenario--he still gets all indignant on your behalf which is ADORABLE, but it might feel less like a personal betrayal of Shepard and more like just boneheadedness on Ash's part.  Though it's certainly colored by whether Shep romanced them and/or romanced Garrus in ME1.

[Kim Shepard]

Garrus and Wrex were the only ME1 squadmates I really liked. I did like Tali's and Kaidan's history, but didn't think they showed enough personality in ME1. ME2 shows off Tali's personality much better. I never liked Ashley or Liara, and Horizon left a bad impression of Kaidan's character for me (about the same as Miranda with that control chip line - just can't forgive it).

As for how Garrus feels about it, he definitely feels like the choice they made on Horizon not to come with Shepard was a bad one. They let their personal distrust and hate for Cerberus get in the way of fighting the Reapers, and Garrus is the type who wouldn't let something like that stop him from the mission or from trusting Shepard. I think that's one thing that left a bad impression for him too - they don't trust Shepard enough to believe him/her. If a romance was involved in ME1, I'm sure Garrus thinks that Shepard's feelings for Kaidan ended on Horizon if she chose to start a romance with him. If Shepard chooses Kaidan over him in ME3, he'll probably just feel like Shepard wanted something "closer to home" after all and changed her mind about their relationship, but he'll still be her friend and comrade who's always there when she needs him. ...Okay, that part's pretty sad. But true to his character. ):

Modifié par Kim Shepard, 02 décembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Stokely]

I imagine Garrus might have a slightly more forgiving attitude in that scenario--he still gets all indignant on your behalf which is ADORABLE, but it might feel less like a personal betrayal of Shepard and more like just boneheadedness on Ash's part.

This is pretty much what my Shepard thinks about Ash, and I imagine Garrus feeling somewhat the same.
Actually, I never got this whole betrayal thing. I've always seen their relationships with Shepard as something more professional, even when romance is involved (as opposed to Garrus), with them being more loyal to the Alliance than to Shepard herself.

Also wanted to share some screenshots.




*inseft flexibility joke here*

Modifié par Stokely, 02 décembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[Kim Shepard]

Great screenshots. I was wondering about Garrus' neck in the second image too. xD How did he do that?

It's nice to see Zaeed. My favorite human squadmate, and he's technically not a squadmate of mine (because he's DLC). Interesting, but not unexpected, that all of my favorite Mass Effect characters want revenge on someone. And when I say all of them, I mean at least the top five.

[Tyrium]

I actually don't think Garrus was brutal (ie physically violent) in his interrogation of that victim of Saleon's - all it says is that he started bleeding during the interrogation. Think about it, this guy must have been covered in barely healed surgical cuts, squirming around in discomfit could easily have re-opened all those cuts, and led to the bleeding. Also, they offered to patch him up, and Garrus is disgusted by the guards beating prisoners on purgatory, and comments that C-Sec has changed when you discus prisoner abuse with bailey.

[Xalena]

Stokely wrote...

I like this one reminds me on situations in game with my char, Garrus and covering behind crates. How you manage to be behind the same crate with Garrus xD? My Shepard always "pushes" Garrus away from crate somehow. And tbh he always chooses crates where I want my char to be > lol... like he is reading my mind

Garrus: Shepard, can't you find other crate to hide??? There are plently of crates and you always...
Shepard: I came here first! This is my crate! You move!
Garrus: No, you move! I found it first!
Shepard: Garrus!!!!
Garrus: God damnnn Shep....*climbs on crate and takes the bullet*<---yea he does that

Modifié par Xalena, 02 décembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[Lord Zeuss]

This is getting a Daily Deviation feature on dA

[Alienmorph]

Wants one, even if I have the room full of dinosaurs and action figures xD

[Mresa]

 I want one too!
It's probably of the best plushies  of Garrus I've seen so far, really well done.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

The Garrus plushie is amazing! Where can I get such a thing?

As to Garrus v Kaidan above. Garrus doesn't care who Shep is with, it could be blood pack and he would still follow her cuz he trusts her. Kaidan wouldn't let Shep explain herself before he dismissed her as someone who works with 'Cerberus.' He was a decent character in ME1, but c'mon, he were all thinking of the turian cop, weren't we?

[Sialater]

Well... Kaidan's gotten all but two of my FemSheps. I can't complain about him, Horizon notwithstanding. Shep derped all over the place.



I actually think he'd be more pissed that no one filled him on these "reports" the VS had on Shepard's resurrection. Liara knew, the VS had reports, you run into Tali on Freedom's Progress. But no one tells the ex-cop. He may be pissed off at the VS for that and for the shouting match on EP after busting his ass to rescue them, but it won't get violent or anything.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

The Garrus plushie is amazing! Where can I get such a thing?
As to Garrus v Kaidan above. Garrus doesn't care who Shep is with, it could be blood pack and he would still follow her cuz he trusts her. Kaidan wouldn't let Shep explain herself before he dismissed her as someone who works with 'Cerberus.' He was a decent character in ME1, but c'mon, he were all thinking of the turian cop, weren't we?

ZOMG GARRUS PLUSHIE.  Adorable snuggly Garrus is adorable.

I find it hard to have an opinion one way or another about Kaidan since I've had so little interaction with him--my FemShep cut off his conversation chain early, then Virmired him ><  But I think for Garrus, it all comes down to personal loyalty, and depends a lot on the Virmire survivor's relationship to Shep before Shep died.  If they were close friends/lovers, Garrus might get angrier and see it as a more personal slight to Shepard--sort of a "What the hell, hero?" moment, especially if Garrus has feelings for Shep.  On the other hand, if it's a more professional relationship, I think he'd cool off.

I still think he'd find it weird that the VS doesn't join up, though--he joins without a second thought, and so does Tali later on in spite of her hatred for Cerberus.

[ElectricZ]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I still think he'd find it weird that the VS doesn't join up, though--he joins without a second thought, and so does Tali later on in spite of her hatred for Cerberus.

He'd definitely see it as a slight since he (and Tali) are able to pull it behind him, but by the same token he'd probably also realize the VS survivor is motivated by duty. Both Kaiden and Ash were very loyal to the Alliance, thought Shepard was dead, and that he might have been compromised by Cerberus. In the intervening two years between ME1 and 2, Garrus and Tali did their own things... but the VS survivor was still serving to the best of his/her capabilities. When rumors of Shepard's return and involvement with Cerberus started coming to light, they had a lot of time to think about it. For Garrus and Tali, it was a total surprise, and relief at seeing their old friend alive hadn't been tainted by a long period of anger and denial, as well as reports from the top that Shepard had gone rogue.

I do hope the next encounter with VS is handled as well as Liara in LotSB... Outside of Shepard being a total jerk to them, it will make for a powerful reunion, especially if all the surviving SR1 team can get back together.

[Kim Shepard]

Tyrium wrote...

I actually don't think Garrus was brutal (ie physically violent) in his interrogation of that victim of Saleon's - all it says is that he started bleeding during the interrogation. Think about it, this guy must have been covered in barely healed surgical cuts, squirming around in discomfit could easily have re-opened all those cuts, and led to the bleeding. Also, they offered to patch him up, and Garrus is disgusted by the guards beating prisoners on purgatory, and comments that C-Sec has changed when you discus prisoner abuse with bailey.

The dialogue doesn't come right out and say how brutal Garrus was (or if he was handling that interrogation alone), but it is suggested. If something as simple as shifting around because he's uncomfortable could do it, his wounds probably would have opened up before they even got him to C-Sec. And he was bleeding a lot. Shepard even asks him if it was necessary, and Garrus says "Maybe, maybe not. But it paid off." I'm not saying Garrus gave him the same treatment as Saren did for that Revelation batarian. The situations were completely different. Saren was interrogating someone whose crimes disgusted him, and Garrus was interrogating a victim who might have some information about the crime. I think Garrus would have been more like some of the cops/investigators on TV shows (a "Cowboy Cop" by TVTropes description) who will rough up the suspects to find out what they need to know - more like what Garrus did to Harkin in ME2.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I still think he'd find it weird that the VS doesn't join up, though--he joins without a second thought, and so does Tali later on in spite of her hatred for Cerberus.

His exact quote on Horizon is, "Damn it, Kaidan! You're so focused on Cerberus that you're ignoring the real threat!" So he's definitely frustrated that the VS won't join, and that they can't look past the fact that Cerberus is involved by just trusting Shepard and the mission.

@Tasha: It's true, I wanted Garrus to be a romance option in ME1. In fact, I remember saying at one point that Garrus as a romance option was the only thing that could make an already awesome game even better. Thank you, ME2.

[Giggles_Manically]

@Kim.



I do agree that Garrus was probably being a bit physical with the suspect, but then again I think Csec is fairly loose with its policies.



Garrus does sound pretty angry at the VS for not listening, but also he does not hold loyalty to anyone but Shepard really while the VS has their loyalty to the alliance.

[Kim Shepard]

Yeah, I doubt C-Sec would mind if Garrus roughed up a suspect. Just look at what they let Shepard (who might not have even been a Spectre at that point) do to Kelham. xD

That's true about the VS being loyal to the Alliance above Shepard. They don't even have to be friends, or on better terms than "we work on the same ship." Garrus would know that - I just don't think he would care. Fighting the Reapers is more important than personal loyalties.

[Giggles_Manically]

Unless you are the VS and Bioware assumed direct control over you.

I hate Horizon.

[Kim Shepard]

I really like Garrus' lines on Horizon. Now that I'm better at the combat, that's fun too. But a lot of my Shepards do consider what the VS said as a betrayal.

[Aeowyn]

It just pisses me off how thick-headed BioWare makes the VS out to be. Not even a chance to explain. Just "You're with cerberus now. You've betrayed us!"
"Eh yeah. I was dead and the Collectors are working with the Reapers, which the Alliance clearly has pushed under the rug. Hmmm...."

Modifié par Aeowyn, 02 décembre 2010 - 11:25 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

I really like Garrus' lines on Horizon. Now that I'm better at the combat, that's fun too. But a lot of my Shepards do consider what the VS said as a betrayal.

My Shepard had a hard time staying angry at Ash.  She was hurt, yes, but my FemShep's a Paragade Sole Survivor who spent most of her free time in ME1 taking down Cerberus cells.  She hates them almost as much as Tali does.  So she can't really blame Ash her antagonism--if she were in Ash's shoes, she'd probably feel the same way.

Kim Shepard wrote...

@Tasha: It's true, I wanted Garrus to be a romance option in ME1. In fact, I remember saying at one point that Garrus as a romance option was the only thing that could make an already awesome game even better. Thank you, ME2.

OK, guys, so I'm totally rereading the old threads.  Like, the first Garrus Love thread before we knew he was even a squaddie, let alone an LI, and we were all tearing ourselves to bits over the tiniest scraps of information.  God, the run-up to ME2 was absolutely insane.  And it's surprisingly fun reliving all the ups and downs and crazy speculation that either did or did not come true.

For example, there was a while where we were all terrified something awful was going to happen to Garrus based on the achievement "Fade Away" and the first clip of him in-game.  We were kinda right--he got his face blown off.  Honestly, though, how many of you were sure from the get-go that Garrus was going to be a) a squaddie and an LI before the game's release?  I know I was super-skeptical of both until I was literally hit over the head with the sledgehammer of Garrus goodness.