29107 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

As much as I like Nihlus and the way he totaly charmed us with that turian thing I think it made a good story to have Saren betray and kill him. The way he died just added to his coolness if you know what I'm saying.

[kglaser]

lovgreno wrote...

As much as I like Nihlus and the way he totaly charmed us with that turian thing I think it made a good story to have Saren betray and kill him. The way he died just added to his coolness if you know what I'm saying.

I actually totally agree with you...I just think it was almost cruel the way BW gave us such a cool character that we all got attached to him and then 10 minutes later he was dead. lol
It just leads to a craving to know more about what he was like.  At least for me it does.  What were his motivations?  Why was he so terse with everybody?  Was it his Spectre training, or his past?  Inquiring minds wanna know!

[lovgreno]

Aeowyn wrote...
But yes, I really do hope that in ME3 you actually work with a mixture of people you already know and have learned to trust and some new squad members. *really hopes for female turian spectre*

Make that female turian spectre a LI for maleShep, now that's what would guaranteed make me buy the game! Well that and Garrus in my squad of course.

[TheDesertMan]

lovgreno wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
But yes, I really do hope that in ME3 you actually work with a mixture of people you already know and have learned to trust and some new squad members. *really hopes for female turian spectre*

Make that female turian spectre a LI for maleShep, now that's what would guaranteed make me buy the game! Well that and Garrus in my squad of course.

I second this.

[Reptilian Rob]

kglaser wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

As much as I like Nihlus and the way he totaly charmed us with that turian thing I think it made a good story to have Saren betray and kill him. The way he died just added to his coolness if you know what I'm saying.

I actually totally agree with you...I just think it was almost cruel the way BW gave us such a cool character that we all got attached to him and then 10 minutes later he was dead. lol
It just leads to a craving to know more about what he was like.  At least for me it does.  What were his motivations?  Why was he so terse with everybody?  Was it his Spectre training, or his past?  Inquiring minds wanna know!

Seconded.

I was really attached to him, and then Saren offed him. My hate for Saren was seeded then, and I knew he had to die.

[Aeowyn]

@Collider and RR: Ty

@The subject of Nihlus AU fics: I've only found two on ff.net, and one of them is mistakenly up as a Shep/Garrus romance. Anyway, one of them is quite good and I think it's the same one that kglaser mentioned, where they meet before the event of ME1 and well....he dies anyway.
The other one is interesting to say the least....
I just don't think it would be Nihlus style to fall in love with the person he's supposed to evaluate. Which is why I liked the first fic I mentioned (he doesn't know who she is until it is too late mohaha).

Regarding his death: I agree with you there that his death was fitting, but I think he died way too soon. It would've been a more "Saren will pay" feeling if we'd gotten to know Nihlus a bit better before he got a hole in the head.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 07 décembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[mnomaha]

kglaser wrote...

I actually totally agree with you...I just think it was almost cruel the way BW gave us such a cool character that we all got attached to him and then 10 minutes later he was dead. lol
It just leads to a craving to know more about what he was like.  At least for me it does.  What were his motivations?  Why was he so terse with everybody?  Was it his Spectre training, or his past?  Inquiring minds wanna know!

*waving* stopping in to say Hi!

I really liked Nihlus and would have loved to have got to know him as well.

BW seems to like doing things like this...

[Sable Rhapsody]

mnomaha wrote...

kglaser wrote...

I actually totally agree with you...I just think it was almost cruel the way BW gave us such a cool character that we all got attached to him and then 10 minutes later he was dead. lol
It just leads to a craving to know more about what he was like.  At least for me it does.  What were his motivations?  Why was he so terse with everybody?  Was it his Spectre training, or his past?  Inquiring minds wanna know!

*waving* stopping in to say Hi!

I really liked Nihlus and would have loved to have got to know him as well.

BW seems to like doing things like this...

I make a strict policy of not getting particularly attached to BioWare characters unless they've survived past the first major plot event.  That weeds out most of the red and mauve shirts: Nihlus, most of the Origin companions from DA:O, Mhairi from DA:A, etc.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I was really attached to him, and then Saren offed him. My hate for Saren was seeded then, and I knew he had to die.

Here is a rock to hide under for when Kim sees this post  Hehe.
I respect Saren. He certainly questions Shepard's morals and makes you pause to think. I quite liked Nihlus too, he was the first alien you see on ME and I was most impressed. And even more impressed when Garrus turned up.

[SilverEST]

Oh yes, Turians in general seem to make a good impression. I got that feeling, anyway. And Saren is bar none the best villain in the ME series, in my opinion(or ever in any game I've played so far). But, yes. Go Garrus! Was thrilled to find out he'll be in ME2 when the first video showed him.

[Scooter79rs]

I thought I'd share this with the other Turian fans.
A digital painting that I did tonight, seemed like a good idea at the time

Modifié par Scooter79rs, 07 décembre 2010 - 02:46 .

[Sialater]

Wow, That's gorgeous!

[Kim Shepard]

@Collider: I agree with most of your post, but I'm not sure if Kaidan would still be in Garrus' top five after Horizon. Before Horizon, definitely. They seemed to get along well. And I think we can assume from what we know about Garrus that he would hate Morinth.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I was really attached to him, and then Saren offed him. My hate for Saren was seeded then, and I knew he had to die.

Here is a rock to hide under for when Kim sees this post  Hehe.

I don't mind it much people don't like my favorite characters. They tend to be the most hated because they're "evil" (although there seem to be a lot of people who respect Saren here on the forums), so I'm used to it. xD MainShep, however... in the long and detailed past I created for her, she once biotic-slammed a kid into a locker for insulting Saren's fringe.

I respect Saren. He certainly questions Shepard's morals and makes you pause to think. I quite liked Nihlus too, he was the first alien you see on ME and I was most impressed. And even more impressed when Garrus turned up.

I agree. I've thought about what my Shepards would have done if they were the one to find Sovereign, and it wouldn't have ended any better than it did for Saren. I really started to like him after that Virmire conversation, and the final confrontation on the Citadel. I liked Nihlus too, but really, if I hated every character who killed a character I like... there wouldn't be many left. Sovereign is mostly to blame for that anyway.

@Scooter79rs: That painting is awesome.

[Giggles_Manically]

I like Saren too, especially in the end when he kills himself to save the galaxy.

Plus he is one of the cooler video game villians.

[Alienmorph]

Well, Sares's not exaclty the most original villain ever, but he's a lot awesome. Especially if you gave him a last chance of "redemption"... it was a really nice thought.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I like Saren too, especially in the end when he kills himself to save the galaxy.
Plus he is one of the cooler video game villians.

I have to admit, I much prefer the "Magnificent Bastard" vein of villains over the "Well-Intentioned Extremist" vein of villains.  I play RPGs as a mix of character roleplaying and puzzle-solving, figuring out the best way to complete the story within the confines of the character.  That makes highly intelligent, one-step-ahead villains really scary to me.  And so for me, villains like Jon Irenicus or even Harbinger will always trump villains like Saren.  I thought he was interesting, as evidenced by discussions with Kim on the topic   But he was never a particularly powerful adversary for me.  

I found Harbinger and ME2's Collectors much more terrifying than Saren for the precise reason that the Collectors formed a nameless, faceless, inexorable enemy.  They couldn't be bought, bargained, or reasoned with.  They were like zombies...under the direct control of a Reaper 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:52 .

[Sialater]

Originality is a lame criticism. Everyone's just as unique as everyone else.





[/endrant]

[Aeowyn]

To be fair, I found the Reapers way more frightening in ME1. Especially when you saw the visions and heard the transmission on Ilos. The "all is lost" feeling was just chilling.

They could've added a lot more to the Protheans and their fate if it hadn't been brushed off so quickly in the second game.

"The Collectors are Protheans! ...Oh well, let's go."



Saren is one of the cooler villains I have to agree with you on that. The fact that he believes he's doing the right thing for the sake of the Galaxy because he's seen what happened to the Protheans as well. I haven't read the book, but from what I hear it just destroys the whole "grey" area surrounding him. Or am I wrong?

[Giggles_Manically]

He does beat up a Batarian though in the book though.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aeowyn wrote...

Saren is one of the cooler villains I have to agree with you on that. The fact that he believes he's doing the right thing for the sake of the Galaxy because he's seen what happened to the Protheans as well. I haven't read the book, but from what I hear it just destroys the whole "grey" area surrounding him. Or am I wrong?

I found Saren racist, narrow-minded, and unconscionably cruel in Revelation; it pretty much cemented him in my brain as a thoroughly bad dude.

But as with all things Saren, it depends on your interpretation.  What everyone seems to agree on is that he was never a decent guy.  He was always violent and callous in his actions--the question is whether you think his intentions, backstory, etc. mitigated it.  

[lovgreno]

Sweet painting Scooter, he certanly looks like the superiourly cool turian he is. Keep the Garrus and Turian fanart coming please.

Modifié par lovgreno, 08 décembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[kglaser]

Great painting, Scooter! The eyes are very penetrating and intense

And a big part of what made Saren effective for me in ME1 was Fred Tatasciore's (sp?) voice. What a great voice he had...I hung on his every word.

[Kim Shepard]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I have to admit, I much prefer the "Magnificent Bastard" vein of villains over the "Well-Intentioned Extremist" vein of villains.  I play RPGs as a mix of character roleplaying and puzzle-solving, figuring out the best way to complete the story within the confines of the character.  That makes highly intelligent, one-step-ahead villains really scary to me.  And so for me, villains like Jon Irenicus or even Harbinger will always trump villains like Saren.  I thought he was interesting, as evidenced by discussions with Kim on the topic   But he was never a particularly powerful adversary for me.  

I found Harbinger and ME2's Collectors much more terrifying than Saren for the precise reason that the Collectors formed a nameless, faceless, inexorable enemy.  They couldn't be bought, bargained, or reasoned with.  They were like zombies...under the direct control of a Reaper 

Personally, I prefer the Well-Intentioned Extremists, but my favorites are normally the "Even Evil Has Standards" type. Saren is both.

I guess I saw Saren as more of a rival - someone who is very close in ability to Shepard, but Shepard has to figure out his plan in order to stop him. What he was planning to do was meant to scare Shepard, not Saren himself. Saren would be completely terrifying to people like that Revelation batarian, but so can Shepard. They're too much like equals.

Sovereign was the one meant to be terrifying, and I thought he/it pulled that off better than Harbinger. The speech on Virmire was amazing. To me, the battles with Harbinger were like a typical videogame fight where you have to beat the guy several times while he's taunting you, while Sovereign seemed untouchable. I can just imagine one of my Shepards shouting "Feel this, Harbinger!" every time he kills a possessed Collector. The same Shepard is secretly terrified that the Reapers could put a subtle thought into your mind that seems so much like your own that you don't even realize you're being controlled. So Saren doesn't scare him (he likes Saren and his methods), but what happened to Saren does.

Aeowyn wrote...

I haven't read the book, but from what I hear it just destroys the whole "grey" area surrounding him. Or am I wrong?

I like all of the books. Revelation was what made Saren my favorite character instead of just one of my favorites. It depends on what you consider "the gray area." There's still a lot of mystery about him, even with all of the extra information. I seriously doubt that Saren was ever a Paragon. He, and the turian military in general, are very Renegade. In fact, Renegade Shepard can make many similar choices to Saren's in-game, and even agree with one of them. He definitely has morals. He doesn't torture people for fun, and he's disgusted by the people who do (which he makes very clear to that Revelation batarian I mentioned). Like Sable said, a lot of this is up for debate. Some people think his crimes were horrible. In my case, after reading the batarian scene, I knew that Saren wouldn't do anything I'd hate him for. So, if you look at it that way, there are a lot of gray areas about his character, morals, motivations, etc.

BioWare, thank you for Revelation. I'd still like to know more about his past though.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He does beat up a Batarian though in the book though.

If I remember correctly, we both agreed that was a good thing? Because, in case anyone hasn't noticed, I really like his lines to the batarian. xD

kglaser wrote...

And a big part of what made Saren effective for me in ME1 was Fred Tatasciore's (sp?) voice. What a great voice he had...I hung on his every word.

I like listening to Saren talk too. More because of what he's saying, but he does have a cool voice. The same guy also did the voice of a werewolf in DAO, who had a scar, and a voice that was deeper than all of the other werewolves, and growled a lot. I couldn't stop thinking of Saren. xD And, you know, he plays my City Elf's father. And Balak, but I'm going to ignore that.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

kglaser wrote...

And a big part of what made Saren effective for me in ME1 was Fred Tatasciore's (sp?) voice. What a great voice he had...I hung on his every word.

I like listening to Saren talk too. More because of what he's saying, but he does have a cool voice. The same guy also did the voice of a werewolf in DAO, who had a scar, and a voice that was deeper than all of the other werewolves, and growled a lot. I couldn't stop thinking of Saren. xD And, you know, he plays my City Elf's father. And Balak, but I'm going to ignore that.

That voice was most of the reason why I ended up liking Saren.  Though of Fred Tatasciore's voiced characters, Zeratul takes the cake for me.  But y'all know I'm a Zeratul fangirl.

I think the reason why Saren and Sovereign didn't scare me as much was because when I first played ME1, the gravity of the situation never sunk in.  Sure I knew the Reapers were coming and they'd bamboozled everyone with the Citadel and the Relays, but their vanguard was destroyed and their agent suicided.  I had no idea of how many Reapers or the lengths they were going to go to.  In ME2, the Collectors kill hundreds of thousands of colonists.  And especially after that last cutscene, I was like, "BAAAAALLS."  

[Kim Shepard]

...Actually, I have no idea who Zeratul is. ): Will I find out when I play the older BioWare games?

Looking at it from the view of my Shepards, Sovereign's Virmire speech inspired a certain amount of fear because it was their first encounter with a Reaper, one who talked directly to them and told them what their kind was capable of. By the time the Collectors killed them and they came back, it was basically, "We know what we have to do. Kill 'em all!" Their only moments of doubt, if any, are from thinking about the way a strong-willed guy like Saren could be controlled, and how he seemed to have no options. In a way, Shepard got lucky defeating Sovereign. But of course the fact that there are so many Reapers adds to the doubt. My poor MainShep wonders how she can do it when Saren couldn't. My bravest Shepard fears that his "damaged" mental state could be influenced as easily as Saren was, even though he'll never admit that.

From my point of view, the only part that came close to scary was wondering how gruesome the liquification of the colonists would be (because I knew about that ahead of time). Turns out it wasn't bad at all.