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[Sable Rhapsody]

FYI, rumors on the Internet are...rumors on the Internet. And therefore about as likely to be true as what a drunk guy burps after beers at 3 AM. The EA exec's comments were talking about online support, which ME2 already has in the form of DLC and Cerberus News. Online does not equal multiplayer.  Also, the game that's getting more info released in the next week or so is DA2, not ME3.

I wouldn't take the comments of one EA exec over the comments of, ya know, the actual dev team working on ME3. Just saying. People seem to think that because BioWare is a part of EA now, the executives can do whatever they want to the games. The corporate end of games is quite distinct from the design and engineering teams who actually work on the game.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 décembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[Kim Shepard]

Baby Garrus is adorable!

The information about that one screenshot and the few clues about it are going to be revealed this weekend? I'll be sure to watch the forums for it. I'm not going to try guessing what it is though. And I don't think there's any need to worry about the single-player (if they even include multiplayer) in ME3. The trilogy has always been Shepard's story, and I can't imagine them taking away from that in the final game. I'm not sure how game companies work exactly, but wouldn't they have a different part of the team working on multiplayer if they choose to include it?

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

And it's pretty obvious Garrus isn't a Gary Stu considering a few of his supposed flaws such as his tendency for revenge, his clear blood-thirsty "Jack Bauer" methods, him nearly dying and becoming permenantly scarred via ROF (Rocket-to-face) missile.
Although the whole blood thirsty Jack Bauer side is kinda part of what I like about him being renegon n' all. As i've said many times, Garrus's personality and morals relate heavily to my own.

Garrus' tendency for revenge is one of the things I like about him too. I've mentioned it before, but all of my top five favorite Mass Effect characters (and a lot of my non-Mass Effect favorites too) want revenge on someone or some group. I always play the Renegade path on his personal missions.

[kglaser]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Well, the Liara thread has been locked. I have never even seen a warning on this thread, Garrus thread is so awesome!!

The Garrus thread had one warning that I can remember, from Woo, but it was a general admonition to stay on-topic, and I was of the impression that all the character threads were getting this warning at about the same time.  Plus, it was a while back.
And you are indeed correct...this thread has always been awesome!  Very on-topic, and somehow we always seemed to come up with fresh angles to discuss the character.
We actually had a troll, too...exactly once.

[lovgreno]

I wonder if Garrus is more popular with more mature players then? Nah, I doubt that. Perhaps we just managed to have a friendly but with a healthy dose of sillyness tone from the beginning wich means that the insecure flamers and cowardly trolls went somewhere else to try to get a false sense of self esteem while cowardly hiding behind internet anonymity.



Also we are fans of the extremely cool turian so his endless supply of coolness might influence us.



Is there anyone in ME that comes even close to Garrus coolness? I can't think of anyone.

[kglaser]

I don't think so, lovgreno...but I'm very, very biased. XD

Seriously, though, I think part of it is that he's such a cool character by design, there's little people can find to hate, other than falling back on the tired old "whiny" thing...He's brave, intelligent, stalwart, perfectly flawed, tormented by his past decisions, scarred (so not 'perfect'), has a history with Shepard, conflicted about his turian heritage--in short, just so interesting how could people truly hate him?? :3

[Reptilian Rob]

kglaser wrote...

I don't think so, lovgreno...but I'm very, very biased. XD
Seriously, though, I think part of it is that he's such a cool character by design, there's little people can find to hate, other than falling back on the tired old "whiny" thing...He's brave, intelligent, stalwart, perfectly flawed, tormented by his past decisions, scarred (so not 'perfect'), has a history with Shepard, conflicted about his turian heritage--in short, just so interesting how could people truly hate him?? :3

I think it has to do with how cute he is.

[kglaser]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

kglaser wrote...

I don't think so, lovgreno...but I'm very, very biased. XD
Seriously, though, I think part of it is that he's such a cool character by design, there's little people can find to hate, other than falling back on the tired old "whiny" thing...He's brave, intelligent, stalwart, perfectly flawed, tormented by his past decisions, scarred (so not 'perfect'), has a history with Shepard, conflicted about his turian heritage--in short, just so interesting how could people truly hate him?? :3

I think it has to do with how cute he is.

It's the Garrus Effect...<3

Really, though, what are the usual arguments?  That he's angsty?  Wouldn't you be, after going through what he has?  That he's whiny?  That's the usual fallback for someone who doesn't like a character, from what I see...

[Reptilian Rob]

kglaser wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

kglaser wrote...

I don't think so, lovgreno...but I'm very, very biased. XD
Seriously, though, I think part of it is that he's such a cool character by design, there's little people can find to hate, other than falling back on the tired old "whiny" thing...He's brave, intelligent, stalwart, perfectly flawed, tormented by his past decisions, scarred (so not 'perfect'), has a history with Shepard, conflicted about his turian heritage--in short, just so interesting how could people truly hate him?? :3

I think it has to do with how cute he is.

It's the Garrus Effect...<3

Really, though, what are the usual arguments?  That he's angsty?  Wouldn't you be, after going through what he has?  That he's whiny?  That's the usual fallback for someone who doesn't like a character, from what I see...

LIke my banner says, hugs for Garr in ME3, from male or femlae Shep.

[Collider]

1. Some people don't like him because he's "too popular."

2. Another argument I've seen (besides whiny/angsty) is that Garrus is "incompetent" and has unrealistic ideas about how he change the galaxy, and in trying to fulfill those ideas, he ends up doing more bad than good.

[kglaser]

Collider wrote...

1. Some people don't like him because he's "too popular."
2. Another argument I've seen (besides whiny/angsty) is that Garrus is "incompetent" and has unrealistic ideas about how he change the galaxy, and in trying to fulfill those ideas, he ends up doing more bad than good.

Rebuttal to 1. would say: that's extremely childish.  Really?  Are we in high school? ><
Rebuttal to 2. would say: ok, better argument than 1.  The first thing that comes to mind here is, at least he's doing *something*...after watching so many supposedly good people watch from the sidelines and do nothing, in my real life, I have to admire a character who takes charge and tries to make a difference.
Sure, he makes mistakes.  Everyone does.  I want to ask those detractors:  what have YOU done to try and improve the galaxy today? :/

[kglaser]

mrsph wrote...

I remember at least one person not liking Garrus because he was a "serial killer"

...Wat? LOL
Please to be explaining this for dumb.  I not understand...

[PiEman]

Ello people.



Doing my first fem Shep right now (starting the game in ME 1 and everything) and definitely making Garrus the LI. Going to have to kill of Kaidan on Virmire though. Well, I guess I don't have to, but...



...



Ashley is her BFF?



To be fair, he did come on kind of strong...

[mellifera]

mrsph wrote...

I remember at least one person not liking Garrus because he was a "serial killer"

.....

[kglaser]

Hey PiE! Enjoy your Femshep, some of her lines are delivered so wonderfully

Playing as a Femshep, I definitely heard Garrus's final lines to me on the SR1 COMPLETELY differently than as a Maleshep, even though they are the same words...

[kglaser]

mrsph wrote...

kglaser wrote...
...Wat? LOL
Please to be explaining this for dumb.  I not understand...

I really can't explain that one in a sane or rational manner. It was some kind of insane troll logic.

Oh.  Then I see. lol XD
It just seemed funny, since a good chunk of the decisions Garrus made were because of what Shep decided anyway. haha

[Sable Rhapsody]

Collider wrote...

1. Some people don't like him because he's "too popular."
2. Another argument I've seen (besides whiny/angsty) is that Garrus is "incompetent" and has unrealistic ideas about how he change the galaxy, and in trying to fulfill those ideas, he ends up doing more bad than good.

Yay for video game hipsters.  Let us shove them into a well filled with rabid dire capybaras, soundproof the lid, and never speak of them again.

The second is actually a more valid point.  I wouldn't say Garrus has done anything incompetent yet.  His hands were tied investigating Saren, and he did take down a bunch of bad guys on Omega with scary efficiency.  The problem is that Garrus's black-and-white worldview and relentless pursuit of justice can cause him to make premature judgments and actions.  My FemShep keeps hammering it into his brain that it's not about what you want.  It's not even about what's just or what's right.  If you're a Spectre, or you run with a Spectre, it's about what's best.  What saves the most lives on balance.  If that means swallowing your pride, killing innocents, or even subverting your own sense of justice, you do it without hesitation.  And that might not always sit well with someone whose morality is as Manichean as Garrus's or Samara's.

So without Shepard to help him out, I can see Garrus making rash mistakes.  With Shep there to guide him, either toward a more measured Paragon or a more precise Renegade approach, he's just fine.

[mellifera]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Collider wrote...

1. Some people don't like him because he's "too popular."
2. Another argument I've seen (besides whiny/angsty) is that Garrus is "incompetent" and has unrealistic ideas about how he change the galaxy, and in trying to fulfill those ideas, he ends up doing more bad than good.

Yay for video game hipsters.  Let us shove them into a well filled with rabid dire capybaras, soundproof the lid, and never speak of them again.

The second is actually a more valid point.  I wouldn't say Garrus has done anything incompetent yet.  His hands were tied investigating Saren, and he did take down a bunch of bad guys on Omega with scary efficiency.  The problem is that Garrus's black-and-white worldview and relentless pursuit of justice can cause him to make premature judgments and actions.  My FemShep keeps hammering it into his brain that it's not about what you want.  It's not even about what's just or what's right.  If you're a Spectre, or you run with a Spectre, it's about what's best.  What saves the most lives on balance.  If that means swallowing your pride, killing innocents, or even subverting your own sense of justice, you do it without hesitation.  And that might not always sit well with someone whose morality is as Manichean as Garrus's or Samara's.

So without Shepard to help him out, I can see Garrus making rash mistakes.  With Shep there to guide him, either toward a more measured Paragon or a more precise Renegade approach, he's just fine.

Hah! Now all we need is for them to start saying they liked Garrus before he was popular xD

And nice assessment. I pretty much agree. A lot of times Shepard seems to be the little angel or the little devil on the squaddies' shoulders, especially in Garrus' case.

[Kim Shepard]

My theory about why Garrus doesn't get as much hate is the same reason why most of my Shepards like him. A lot of people don't like it when others constantly disagree with them or question their decisions. Totally understandable - it can annoy me too when some characters act that way towards Shepard, if it's not something that's almost meant to be hilarious like the turian councillor. But Garrus always trusts Shepard and never questions Shepard's decisions. It's hard to get Shepard into a real conflict with Garrus because of that, since he'll always see Shepard's point of view and respect it even if they don't always agree. The fact that he doesn't talk back to Shepard all the time might make it harder for us, as gamers, to get frustrated with him. (Judging by personal experience, the characters who annoy me are typically the ones who don't agree with me.)

I can see why some people don't like him. If they disagree with his beliefs and revenge, or there are just things about his personality that they don't like, it's all a matter of opinion. I'm the same way when a character has personality traits that I don't like (but the opposite in the way that characters who are too forgiving tend to annoy me), or beliefs that I don't agree with (although, there are exceptions to that one - like Thane). Garrus' personality, tendency towards revenge, and everything else just happen to be things I've always liked in characters. They're the ones I find the most interesting, but not everyone feels the same way.

The "incompetent" statement is incorrect though. An incompetent person couldn't be a successful choice for fire team leader in the suicide mission. He had a mission that ended badly. I wonder if the same people who think that makes Garrus incompetent would have the same opinion about Sole Survivors and Ruthless Shepards, because they've lost all or the majority of their team too. The fact is, Shepard is a great leader and so is Garrus. That much is proven in-game.

[Aeowyn]

Kim Shepard wrote...

My theory about why Garrus doesn't get as much hate is the same reason why most of my Shepards like him. A lot of people don't like it when others constantly disagree with them or question their decisions. Totally understandable - it can annoy me too when some characters act that way towards Shepard, if it's not something that's almost meant to be hilarious like the turian councillor. But Garrus always trusts Shepard and never questions Shepard's decisions. It's hard to get Shepard into a real conflict with Garrus because of that, since he'll always see Shepard's point of view and respect it even if they don't always agree. The fact that he doesn't talk back to Shepard all the time might make it harder for us, as gamers, to get frustrated with him. (Judging by personal experience, the characters who annoy me are typically the ones who don't agree with me.)

I can see why some people don't like him. If they disagree with his beliefs and revenge, or there are just things about his personality that they don't like, it's all a matter of opinion. I'm the same way when a character has personality traits that I don't like (but the opposite in the way that characters who are too forgiving tend to annoy me), or beliefs that I don't agree with (although, there are exceptions to that one - like Thane). Garrus' personality, tendency towards revenge, and everything else just happen to be things I've always liked in characters. They're the ones I find the most interesting, but not everyone feels the same way.

The "incompetent" statement is incorrect though. An incompetent person couldn't be a successful choice for fire team leader in the suicide mission. He had a mission that ended badly. I wonder if the same people who think that makes Garrus incompetent would have the same opinion about Sole Survivors and Ruthless Shepards, because they've lost all or the majority of their team too. The fact is, Shepard is a great leader and so is Garrus. That much is proven in-game.

I agree with this. Although it does kind of bug me that he doesn't get more angry with Shepard if she chooses to save Sidonis instead of letting me have his revenge. I don't want any major drama, but I would've expected one conversation when all that uppent anger he's had for Sidonis goes out on her.
The first time I saved him and Garrus said "I know you want to talk about this, but I don't, not now." I went for the "Alright." conversation, expecting to be able to have a conversation about it later. But then I just got the same generic "Thank you for helping me with Sidonis." - convo 

[Kim Shepard]

It just shows how much Garrus trusts Shepard. He knows that, even if he doesn't agree with it, Shepard always has a reason and believes that it's for the best. I've said it before, but it's a good thing for the other squadmates that the situation wasn't reversed. I have Shepards who would shoot right through people who get in their way. Garrus can listen to an opposing point of view if he respects someone enough, while my Shepards have views that are very much set in stone and would no longer respect someone who didn't let them handle the problem their own way.

I've read a lot of posts where people said they let Garrus kill Sidonis at first because they were afraid to lose his loyalty. Most of them probably weren't worried about something that extreme, but it's just proof that we're all very lucky to have Garrus. xD

[lovgreno]

I think Garrus is rather fine with letting Sidonis go actualy. He got smarts and self esteem enough to know that it's time to go on to more important things, like saving the galaxy.

[mellifera]

What's that old saying? Don't bring a paragon to a revenge kill? Heh.