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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#15326
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

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Well, anyone that took out the Alien Council will get that chance, course, if the news reports are correct, I don't think Turians are on too friendly terms with Humans after the incident with the council though hehe



Actually that got me thinking, I wonder when Garrus last went to Palaven. If at all... be kind of like Shepard I guess not necessarily having ever been to Earth.



One thing that got me thinking of this is one of the initial scenes in ME when Shep, Kaidan and Ash first go to the Citadel and they are looking out from one of the levels at it and it basically sounds like its the first time any of them have been to it.



Repeat of the "Why can't we go anywhere nice..." line by Garrus perhaps when we go to Earth? :P

#15327
Evelinessa

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Aeowyn wrote...

Well to be fair. I doubt the Council will listen anyway. They will probably say that they can't get involved in "human centric" problems and my take is that Shepard will go around the Council and speak to the different governments individually. At least I hope so. Because I really want to go to Palaven and speak to the leaders of the Turian Hierarchy.


Me too. I hope we get bonus dialogue from Garrus if he's in our squad at the time. Plus I want to meet his family. It will feel like such a missed opertunity(sorry I can't spell the word) if Garrus is in the squad at the time and he has nothing to say during the mission. I will feel cheated. It still would be awesome to visit though.

#15328
Evelinessa

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Also, I want sometime during ME3 for Garrus to say "Just like old times". It makes me feel happy when he says it and it shows how long we've known each other.

#15329
JulianP

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Something totally random of me here: but ... Grizz in the Afterlife is kind of cute in a rough-hewn way! Huge mandibles, too. Cool markings. Amber eyes. Garrus looks so young and clean-shaven next to this guy, which is great, too.

#15330
Sable Rhapsody

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Faerlyte wrote...

As for the human focus in the game, my complaint isn't so much that there isn't a good reason within the parameters of the storyline they've drawn up - my complaint is that Bioware chose to go there in the first place rather thank taking another route.

People assume that because we're obviously all human and playing this game, that we won't be as interested in a story that doesn't focus on humans and how awesome we are. Not besides which, who is to say that genetic diversity would be a plus in this context? What if less diversity in a species ultimately makes them stronger on average, or faster? This idea, to me, is self-serving for the purpose of making the human species come across as superior to the others.


Out of curiosity, what other route would they have taken?  If you're still using Shepard, that makes you the first human Spectre.  Kind of a big deal, and it makes sense story-wise to focus on your species if you represent them at their best.  The alternative is this: hey, look, here's ME1.  You're playing as an alien race you know nothing about?  And you're supposed to care because...?

Some franchises come off really weird or have trouble getting off the ground because there's no point of contact or familiarity.  You need SOMETHING for the reader, viewer, gamer, whatever to hold on to, something that gets them to care right off the bat.  Sci-fi without humans, and without humans playing prominent roles, just doesn't cut it.  Can you imagine Star Wars without humans?  There's a reason why most of that franchise--or most other franchises'--major characters are human or near-human.  To top it off, most of ME's aliens are REALLY alien, not like Chiss, Zeltron, Vulcan, etc.  BioWare does have a bottom line to meet, and while I'm sure we all would love a game about turians with no humans involved or minimal human involvement, I doubt that game would've sold millions of copies :D

@Kim: Screenies and analysis thread are here: http://social.biowar...5/index/5429494

I disagree with it being a human husk, unless it's a drastically warped one.  Humans don't have backs and waists like that.  I am fully open to the possibility of it being some kind of husk we haven't seen yet, but that figure is too distorted to be a standard husk or abomination, and too small and scrawny to be a scion or praetorian.  And upon closer examination, I'm taking back my Collector hypothesis--the second frame of the creature so does not fit a Collector.

The closest thing it looks to is a turian, but there's too many fingers (second frame).  It really does look like a darkspawn shriek from DA:O :huh:

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:06 .


#15331
lovgreno

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Well the reapers realy likes to modify and specialise their husk and collectors so I wouldn't rule out a turian husk. In fact I would like to see huskified versions of all kinds of spiecies in ME3 just to have some variation. A turian husk sneaking around and sniping could be seriously creepy.

#15332
Aeowyn

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Ok Kim, I cannot find anything that states that there are aliens on Earth. Only thing I have to go with is the Terra Firma protest shouts ("Aliens off Earth"). But damn, I could've sword I read somewhere that there was a very small percentage of aliens on Earth working for science corps etc. I'm confused now :(

#15333
Alexine

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lovgreno wrote...

Well the reapers realy likes to modify and specialise their husk and collectors so I wouldn't rule out a turian husk. In fact I would like to see huskified versions of all kinds of spiecies in ME3 just to have some variation. A turian husk sneaking around and sniping could be seriously creepy.


Didn't we get something similar with Saren? (minus the sniping of course) :P

#15334
Cra5y Pineapple

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Y'know, if the British Sniper in the trailer becomes a squadmate; I could see Garrus and him becoming real friendly, or having sniping competitions every five seconds. Or maybe both.

#15335
Aeowyn

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They take them where the bodies lie I guess. So far we've only been to human settlements (Eden Prime, Horizon etc). Saren made a good turian husk. I'm sure if we were on a salarian planet being attacked for example, we would see a lot of Salarian husks.

But hmm.... On Virmire we fight human husks as well, but all their prisoners were Salarian. Lazy modelling I guess.

#15336
lovgreno

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Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Y'know, if the British Sniper in the trailer becomes a squadmate; I could see Garrus and him becoming real friendly, or having sniping competitions every five seconds. Or maybe both.

And rivals over FemShep.

Harbringer is a total fanboy/girl/robotchtulu/thing over humans so it's not suprising that there are only human husks in ME2. But I expect other reapers to have a different personal taste when it comes to huskifying.

#15337
JulianP

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Another non sequitur from me, but well, I finally caved and got Cerberus Network. And Zaeed.



OMG!!! He has a model of a turian frigate whose details I can actually SEE! Totally worth it now.



I want that model on Shepard's desk and IRL. It's like the "Defender" fighter from Freelancer, only way more gorgeous. Hmmm, how much would I have to bribe Zaeed for him to part with it?

#15338
lovgreno

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JulianP wrote..Hmmm, how much would I have to bribe Zaeed for him to part with it?

Clever plan: Tell Zaeed you got a friend who can outsnipe him any day. Then make a bet about it with his model as the priiize. And then, well, need I say more than Garrus Vakarian?

#15339
Scooter79rs

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Aeowyn wrote...

Ok Kim, I cannot find anything that states that there are aliens on Earth. Only thing I have to go with is the Terra Firma protest shouts ("Aliens off Earth"). But damn, I could've sword I read somewhere that there was a very small percentage of aliens on Earth working for science corps etc. I'm confused now :(


I consider aliens on Earth to be plausible for what ever reason. Look at Illium, its an Asari planet but there is non-Asari living and working there. Just because Earth is the Human homeworld it doesn't mean that non-Human can't be there for what ever reason.

#15340
Dengarde

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Scooter79rs wrote...

I consider aliens on Earth to be plausible for what ever reason. Look at Illium, its an Asari planet but there is non-Asari living and working there. Just because Earth is the Human homeworld it doesn't mean that non-Human can't be there for what ever reason.


True, but you're forgetting a couple things.

One, the Asari have been a part of the counsil for lord knows how long now, and have made their place in the galaxy as one of the more respected humans.

And two, Asari mate with practicly every species out there, EXCEPT their own. So natrualy there would be other species on Illium, otherwise Illium wouldn't be that populated at all, unless everyone was pure-blood. But that would cause all sorts of problems among Asari.

Humans on the other hand, have only been in contact with aliens for a couple of decades, and aren't that well respected yet. ESPECIALLY if you kill the counsil. And the only other species that Humans can really mate with are Asari...but that would end up in an Asari being born.

So while I'm not saying that it's impossible for aliens to be on Earth, we probably won't see as many as you would on Illium.

Modifié par Dengarde, 13 décembre 2010 - 03:21 .


#15341
Mr Heatsink

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I wonder if any else has noticed this but at the end of the sniper trailer with the reapers desttroying London seems to be a nod to War of the Worlds. The reapers being the tripods and the lasers the heat rays. Now I am offically cancelling sleep.

#15342
Scooter79rs

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@Dengarde, those are some good points that I did forget to consider.

#15343
Faerlyte

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Out of curiosity, what other route would they have taken?  If you're still using Shepard, that makes you the first human Spectre.  Kind of a big deal, and it makes sense story-wise to focus on your species if you represent them at their best.  The alternative is this: hey, look, here's ME1.  You're playing as an alien race you know nothing about?  And you're supposed to care because...?

Some franchises come off really weird or have trouble getting off the ground because there's no point of contact or familiarity.  You need SOMETHING for the reader, viewer, gamer, whatever to hold on to, something that gets them to care right off the bat.  Sci-fi without humans, and without humans playing prominent roles, just doesn't cut it.  Can you imagine Star Wars without humans?  There's a reason why most of that franchise--or most other franchises'--major characters are human or near-human.  To top it off, most of ME's aliens are REALLY alien, not like Chiss, Zeltron, Vulcan, etc.  BioWare does have a bottom line to meet, and while I'm sure we all would love a game about turians with no humans involved or minimal human involvement, I doubt that game would've sold millions of copies :D


Humans didn't have to be the Reaper's focus. There are any number of routes the story can take besides that. But more than anything, it really didn't have to go back to earth - it's been done. Many times. Would it be cool to stop at an earth city? Eh, I don't really care. I never had any desire to go to earth in the game, because my interest is in the unique Universe of Mass Effect, and all the different aliens in it - I find them interesting so yeah, I care, because the concept is intriguing, and I want to know more. .

What makes a story engaging are the characters and how well they are created, whether it be in a vidoe game or a book. They don't have to be human to empathise with them, or at least they shouldn't have to be. In the parameters of this Universe, all the races involved have emotions, they feel much like we do, they understand there is a right and a wrong, just like we do, and they love. What more do we need in order to relate?

Any fictional story that has ever been created is about non-existent people, so why should them being human be the difference between caring and not? Whether you care about a character is in the writer's hands - it doesn't matter if it's human, alien, or whatever. I appreciate good story telling and well written characters - that does cut it for me.

Take for exampe the movie District 9. Of all the characters in that movie, I cared about the alien, Christopher, and his son the most, because the writers did such a powerful job in portraying their characters - I can familiarize with them and I want them to get home. And yeah, there were humans in the movie, but with the exception of one, they didn't drive the story.

The human characters in Mass Effect do not inspire me. I could do away with just about all of them. The aliens interest me more because they don't exist in real life, and I like to imagine a world where they did.

But I never said I didn't want humans in the game - what I said was that I don't need or desire for the human race to be the primary focus of the plot. I don't like the feeling of entitlement and I really don't like it when anyone tells me that "we have to look out for ourselves" because I don't owe loyalty to the human race by dint of being human.

As for being the first Spectre, well yeah, that is always a momentus occasion when you're the first to break a barrier. I never said it wasn't, but the idea that the Reapers are only interseted in humans is a bit cheesy.

If I didn't get to have all my favorite aliens fighting along side in my party, the game wouldn't be the same. They are what make it worth while, not the human characters.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 13 décembre 2010 - 04:21 .


#15344
praetor_alpha

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Re Aliens on Earth:

Krogan and turians are very much into human sports on Earth:

http://masseffect.wi...uper_Bowl_CCXIX

http://masseffect.wi...avyweight_Title

Modifié par praetor_alpha, 13 décembre 2010 - 04:19 .


#15345
Scooter79rs

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Isn't there also something about the Asari or Turians practicing Buddhism? I do recall reading something like that. So there has been some interest in Human culture from non-Human.

#15346
praetor_alpha

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Yes. Also (from CDN), there is unleavened dextro amino bread (specifically mentioned both turians AND quarians) for Passover.

Modifié par praetor_alpha, 13 décembre 2010 - 04:46 .


#15347
Sable Rhapsody

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Faerlyte wrote...

Humans didn't have to be the Reaper's focus. There are any number of routes the story can take besides that.


And again--like what?  I'm genuinely curious as to what else you think BioWare could have done given how the game was set up.  It seems that the problem you have with humans being important to the story was introduced in...Mass Effect 1, with a human Spectre and humans ascendant in the galaxy.  Human importance was literally established in the first few minutes of the story, earlier if you read Revelation.  And the Reapers focus on humans because they're the greatest threat.  It wasn't as though the Mass Effect franchise took a hard left with ME2 or ME3 for the importance of humans.   Has this bothered you since the beginning of the very first game?   

What makes a story engaging are the characters and how well they are created, whether it be in a vidoe game or a book. They don't have to be human to empathise with them, or at least they shouldn't have to be. In the parameters of this Universe, all the races involved have emotions, they feel much like we do, they understand there is a right and a wrong, just like we do, and they love. What more do we need in order to relate?

...

But I never said I didn't want humans in the game - what I said was that I don't need or desire for the human race to be the primary focus of the plot. I don't like the feeling of entitlement and I really don't like it when anyone tells me that "we have to look out for ourselves" because I don't owe loyalty to the human race by dint of being human.


That's how you feel, and I get it.  But your feeling is probably the exception rather than the rule, and expecting BioWare's narrative technique to deviate so drastically from the style of most popular sci-fi is IMO unrealistic.  Look at Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Halo, even Star Wars with its million zillion races.  They all contain humans in a significant plot role.  Neurologically, humans are more likely to emphasize with humans. That's just how we are ON AVERAGE.  We are primed for the social and emotional cues of our species, and it makes sense for anyone telling a story to tap into that natural inclination.  Most people do feel a bent toward their own species, nationality, religious affiliation, even sports team, etc.  I know I do.  That's not racism or bigotry or "entitlement," it's just how most people are.

I'm not saying there can't be exceptions, but you have to cut BioWare some slack.  They're not telling a story for just us in the Garrus thread, or even for their core fanbase.  They're telling a story to over two million people, and generally speaking, using humans as a key point of a sci-fi universe is a more-than-valid way to tell the story and quickly engage the audience, even one new to the franchise.  Sure it's not original, but to be frank, very little of BioWare's stuff really is.  If we're going to point fingers at the Earth invasion for being done before...most of the material in every BioWare RPG goes with it.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 décembre 2010 - 08:11 .


#15348
Tasha vas Nar Rayya

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I was shocked that the trailer looks like it's gonna be set on Earth. I'm not entirely sure that I like the idea either... Of course, I will wait until I play it, and maybe the trailer will prove to be deceiving. But there is no focus on the aliens that really made the world of Mass effect. Playing ME1 and 2, there is the entire galaxy to explore, a huge codex of Bioware's universe, all the aliens that make it so unique and imaginative, and then squadmates from these various races that make them so fantastic.

Personally, I prefer the alien squadmates to the human ones. I like Jack and Kasumi, the others I weren't so bothered about, Garrus is my favourite, followed by Thane. After that, it would be Wrex, Legion etc. And we are suddenly immersed into Earth (hypothetically speaking) after never even going into Earth's solar system except for that side mission on the moon, and to probe Uranus :D

#15349
Aeowyn

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Well, it is a 1 minute teaser trailer, and I am sure that we get to see the other species. After all, Reapers aren't just a threat to humanity. I think the fact that they're targetting earth is just one part of the story. Our "goal" so to speak.

#15350
Sable Rhapsody

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Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I was shocked that the trailer looks like it's gonna be set on Earth. I'm not entirely sure that I like the idea either... Of course, I will wait until I play it, and maybe the trailer will prove to be deceiving. But there is no focus on the aliens that really made the world of Mass effect. Playing ME1 and 2, there is the entire galaxy to explore, a huge codex of Bioware's universe, all the aliens that make it so unique and imaginative, and then squadmates from these various races that make them so fantastic.
Personally, I prefer the alien squadmates to the human ones. I like Jack and Kasumi, the others I weren't so bothered about, Garrus is my favourite, followed by Thane. After that, it would be Wrex, Legion etc. And we are suddenly immersed into Earth (hypothetically speaking) after never even going into Earth's solar system except for that side mission on the moon, and to probe Uranus :D


I'm not going to go again into the zillion plot and meta reasons for the Reapers attacking Earth, but I'm fairly sure BioWare didn't spend four years and two games building the universe just to scrap all of it except one planet :D  Besides, I've learned to ignore games marketing, especially for RPGs.  It's usually oversimplified.  Remember the trailers for Grunt and Legion?  An unthinking savage and a killer stalker machine...yeah right.  Grunt and Legion are :wub:

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 décembre 2010 - 09:34 .