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[Faerlyte]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Faerlyte wrote...

Humans didn't have to be the Reaper's focus. There are any number of routes the story can take besides that.

And again--like what?  I'm genuinely curious as to what else you think BioWare could have done given how the game was set up.  It seems that the problem you have with humans being important to the story was introduced in...Mass Effect 1, with a human Spectre and humans ascendant in the galaxy.  Human importance was literally established in the first few minutes of the story, earlier if you read Revelation.  And the Reapers focus on humans because they're the greatest threat.  It wasn't as though the Mass Effect franchise took a hard left with ME2 or ME3 for the importance of humans.   Has this bothered you since the beginning of the very first game?   

What makes a story engaging are the characters and how well they are created, whether it be in a vidoe game or a book. They don't have to be human to empathise with them, or at least they shouldn't have to be. In the parameters of this Universe, all the races involved have emotions, they feel much like we do, they understand there is a right and a wrong, just like we do, and they love. What more do we need in order to relate?

...

But I never said I didn't want humans in the game - what I said was that I don't need or desire for the human race to be the primary focus of the plot. I don't like the feeling of entitlement and I really don't like it when anyone tells me that "we have to look out for ourselves" because I don't owe loyalty to the human race by dint of being human.

That's how you feel, and I get it.  But your feeling is probably the exception rather than the rule, and expecting BioWare's narrative technique to deviate so drastically from the style of most popular sci-fi is IMO unrealistic.  Look at Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Halo, even Star Wars with its million zillion races. They all contain humans in a significant plot role.  Neurologically, humans are more likely to emphasize with humans. That's just how we are ON AVERAGE.  We are primed for the social and emotional cues of our species, and it makes sense for anyone telling a story to tap into that natural inclination.  Most people do feel a bent toward their own species, nationality, religious affiliation, even sports team, etc.  I know I do.  That's not racism or bigotry or "entitlement," it's just how most people are.

I'm not saying there can't be exceptions, but you have to cut BioWare some slack.  They're not telling a story for just us in the Garrus thread, or even for their core fanbase.  They're telling a story to over two million people, and generally speaking, using humans as a key point of a sci-fi universe is a more-than-valid way to tell the story and quickly engage the audience, even one new to the franchise.  Sure it's not original, but to be frank, very little of BioWare's stuff really is.  If we're going to point fingers at the Earth invasion for being done before...most of the material in every BioWare RPG goes with it.

The Reapers could have gone after another species, or they could have gone after all of them. The latter would make the most sense because these alien species are highly evolved intelligent beings, like us, and I find it highly unlikely that they each wouldn't have something to offer to the Reapers. They will have strengths and weaknesses just like humans, and their strengths might compliment our weaknesses. Who is to say that you couldn't combine all the best traits of every species to create an ultimate Reaper? Why is it confined to one?

I was referring to the entire series, yes. I've always been a big fan of Executor Pallin myself, because he hit the nail on the head with what he said - humans were in a rush to attain power in the galaxy and they were being given a lot  (something to that effect anyway).  You have all these other "lesser" species that have been around for a lot longer than humans, but they aren't allowed on the council, and yet humans push for it relentlessly without paying their dues. You don't charge in there like you own the place - that's what I mean by entitlement.

You can have a human lead without the human race being the focus of a game. This is the general point I'm trying to make. I don't believe you need a human lead for a story to be interesting, but I don't mind a human lead that's just out there to do good for everybody, regardless of race or species, and not for their own agenda. Any person can see and identify humanity in other species, especially humanoid ones, if they want to.

BioWare makes good games, but yeah, their story telling isn't exactly in the original department. If I had my druthers it would be, which is why I'm luke warm on the trailer and where it seems like they're going to take the series. I can cut some slack when it comes to what a game developer is capable of building within time constraints, but creating a storyline isn't rocket science so I'm less inclined to cut them slack for dishing out cliches, especially when I'm buying their games anyway. I never expected them to deviate from this tried and true method of theirs, but I can hope, and I'm still going to be somewhat disappointed when we revisit the same thing that countless plotlines have done before.

At some point you've got to have the guts to reach out and take a chance with something new - that's what any great person does when breaking new ground. I genuinely love the series, but like I said before, I wouldn't want to play the games if it weren't for the alien characters.

Yeah, I know I'm the exception and not the rule - that's plain enough with the overall reaction to the trailer on the boards, which has been overwhelmingly positive. I never meant to imply I wasn't an exception, but I've got a voice too. I like to discuss my feelings on the matter like everyone else - mine just happen to be in the minority.

But I'm used to it so it's all good, haha.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 13 décembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[Kim Shepard]

Again, really long catch-up post. This is what happens when cool videogame trailers are released and speculation begins.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Which crazy scientist did Paragons let go in ME? Rana, where was she when we first met her? At Saren's place where Sovereign was, considering our encounter with Benezia I think it is safe to assume that Rana is also indoctrinated and still carrying out the wishes of the Reapers. Hence the constant foreshadowing by squadmates of letting her live being a mistake. So glad Motoko killed her on Virmire

I really hope there's some kind of consequence for letting her live. My MainShep used the "I'm going to blow this place up, maybe you can make it off if you start running now" option, and then Garrus said, "You enjoyed that." xD I'd like to see her again in ME3. Now that I think of it, she's probably the best connection to Saren and his research that we have now. MainShep didn't expect it would come to that (and was honestly surprised that she made it out of Virmire alive), but she likes Saren, so any connection to him is good.

As for either council, am betting they'll put the blame on Shepard, saying that Shep has gone rogue like Saren. After all they suspected Cerberus of going for the colonies.

That would be typical of them. The Council sure made a lot of my Shepards regret saving them. If there's an option to save them again, there won't be as many who make that choice a second time. Unless they really make up for it in ME3, MainShep won't even try.

Evelinessa wrote...

Didn't Bioware say that they were thinking about putting Palaven in a DLC or ME3?

What? They did? When? Where? BioWare, please keep the army recruiting to ME3. Otherwise, my Shepards will have no armies. I'll have to defeat the Reapers with the power of Shepard alone. Well, at least half of them will have TIM on their side... I hope.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Actually that got me thinking, I wonder when Garrus last went to Palaven. If at all... be kind of like Shepard I guess not necessarily having ever been to Earth.

Garrus says that Virmire reminds him of where he grew up on Palaven - minus the geth, of course. I'm not sure when he last went there or if his family still lives there though. It would be nice if he knew his way around and commented about a few things to Shepard, or it could be just like Earth where, unless he travelled a lot, the area of Palaven we visit could be new to him.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

@Kim: Screenies and analysis thread are here: http://social.biowar...5/index/5429494

Thanks, those screenshots are much better than what I could see in the video. I'm not sure if it could be a turian though. I don't see any leg spurs there. But I would guess that it's some sort of husk. Even though most of the human husks look the same, with their form still close to a normal human, Saren as a husk wasn't shaped much like a turian anymore. If I had to guess, the amount of Reaper influence and the way they're created can probably make them appear more distorted. Most of the husks we've seen were created by those spikes, Saren was implanted for them to assume direct control, and there was another method mentioned that I don't remember right now. It could be any of the thinner species.

About aliens on Earth: I think it wouldn't be too common, for the same reasons Dengarde said. Humans are new to the other alien species, and I'm sure it's even more new and strange to humans. A lot of them do resent humans' power in the galaxy, but even they might see it as just another new species around, while humans hadn't known about any aliens before they came into contact with everything all at once 30 years ago. Small groups of alien scientist on Earth makes sense though.

I can't find a youtube video with the Terra Firma protestors' quote, but if I have time to play ME1 anytime soon, I'll get to see it. I'm right up to that part of the game.

About humans in Mass Effect: While the human part of Mass Effect isn't exactly my favorite, it does interest me, and a lot of people on the forums were hoping to see Earth in ME3. I'd like to see what future Earth looks like too. I think a future Mass Effect game where we can play as aliens would be awesome, but it is easier to play a human character in the first game when the galaxy and alien species are still being introduced. Playing as a turian would be great, but for the beginning of the series, it would have been very confusing. We knew nothing about the aliens when we started playing Mass Effect, and for those of us who like to roleplay, it's hard to play a character when we don't know their culture. Not to mention, gathering information about stuff we should already know by asking the NPCs would be even more awkward and out of character than Shepard asking what the Spectres are. So, for the next Mass Effect game after Shepard's story is over, I'd like to play aliens (and other humans too). It just wouldn't work for the current trilogy.

Actually, my top five favorite characters are split between turians and humans. Saren will always be number one, then there's Garrus, Kai Leng, TIM, and Zaeed (which, considering the fact that he's not even in my game, is a major accomplishment - the youtube videos were just that awesome). And then the next two are krogan, Wrex and Grunt. xD Anyone else get the idea that all of my favorites would try to kill each other if they were ever in the same room without Shepard?

[Aeowyn]

Ooh I also remembered. If you're Earthborn and talk to Finch in ME1. If you ask him what he wants he says "I want aliens off Earth."

[Kim Shepard]

Wow, I must have missed that line... my current Shepard, who I'm replaying for a second and soon-to-be third time, is an Earthborn. xD I'll see it eventually.

[lovgreno]

Kim Shepard wrote... So, for the next Mass Effect game after Shepard's story is over, I'd like to play aliens (and other humans too). It just wouldn't work for the current trilogy.

The ME trilogy is in a way also a story about humanity becomming a part of the galactic community so it's reasonable that humans have a central role. But yeah, a future game about a turian spectre on a turian ship = instant buy for me.

In fact, I think it would be reasonable to give Shep a turian ship with a turian crew in ME3. If you blew up the base TIMmy might take his ship back so you have to find a new one for Shep and company. Joker would probably complain at first but then realise that this means he can brag about being the best helmsman, even on turian ships. Since turians built the Normandy with the humans they probably have a similar prototype somewhere. And it would be full of pretty turian females of course.

Modifié par lovgreno, 13 décembre 2010 - 10:51 .

[Alexine]

I think earth would have aliens, whether it would be for political, cultural or scientific. However, judging from the huge negativity of aliens amongst humanity, I think that there would be restrictions. Humanity had only been present in intergalactic society for less than a century. Yet they've risen to be the huge power of the galaxy in only thirty years. If you think about it logically, no matter how much resources we have left on Earth by the time of 2185, sacrifice funds into bureaucracy would be needed to attain the power that humanity has on the council. I mean, I recalled reading that the humans in space only make a tiny percentage of humans population altogether, with the majority of humans on Earth and poverty and over-population strife.

If there was alien presence on Earth, I would assume they would be restricted to port places or capital cities. Sort of like different civilisations in history who respond to foreign ambassadors; only allowing limited access to the rest of the places. It would explain the lack of aliens in the trailer plausible.

Modifié par Alexine, 13 décembre 2010 - 10:53 .

[Kim Shepard]

@lovgreno: Even if Shepard betrays TIM, Shepard gets to keep the Normandy. The pilot is loyal to Shepard, and the AI is no longer under Cerberus control. That being said, MainShep won't have that problem because she's still working with TIM. I imagine she'll get a turian army though. She'll have a lot of armies. It's my paranoid Earthborn Sole Survivor who needs to worry - his only allies as of now are the krogan, and an uncertain alliance with the rachni. Turians are a definite possibility, but he's done a very good job at making people angry. xD

@Alexine: You could be right about that. It was suggested that most places on Earth aren't exactly something aliens would want to move to, especially in comparison to where they are now. Or at least Anoleis suggested that when he insults Earthborn Shepard's home planet.

[Alexine]

Kim Shepard wrote...
@Alexine: You could be right about that. It was suggested that most places on Earth aren't exactly something aliens would want to move to, especially in comparison to where they are now. Or at least Anoleis suggested that when he insults Earthborn Shepard's home planet.

It would depend. There would always be migration, despite the lack of over-population, the main reason why large numbers of people would migrate. I honestly don't think a lot of aliens or turians in that matter would be that stubborn to put their hatred to not migrate and live upon Earth. True it may be a majority (lots of turians have this view and perspective), but what about the rest of turian population? Like humans to turians, we've only just glanced aliens' perspective of humanity and their lifestyle.

But we feel that aliens would find Earth not interesting is the lack of individuality that BW had made these races. BW make most turians militaristic who scorn humanity for snubbing their place that they've earned and maintained for many thousand years. I hope that BW would bring more individuality to these races. I would understand that the Shepard arc tells the tale of humanity's rise to power, so humanity would be looked more positively, but honestly, I really want aliens that really have that individuality that Garrus has.

[lovgreno]

Yeah I know Kim, just a idea I had. Or rather wishfull thinking to be honest. But some real variation based on big choices like the base would be nice. Still it would be nice to have the option to switch characters when you get bored of good old Normandy and run around your ship staring at all the awesome turian crew members. And the other way around too of course.

[Hedrigall]

Hi everyone! I just wanted to show off my cool new t-shirt!

[Sialater]

If anyone's interested, Persephone Rising was updated today with Chapter 14.

[lovgreno]

Certanly a cool T shirt Hedrigall. And it kind of makes sense as both Che and Garrus are/was rather rebellious.

[Mresa]

@ Sialater

Oh sweetnes! I love your stories Sia. Is there gonna be more chapter for "Loved" anytime soon?

[Sialater]

Mresa wrote...

@ Sialater
Oh sweetnes! I love your stories Sia. Is there gonna be more chapter for "Loved" anytime soon?

I hope so.   Work just needs to lighten up.  And I need to finish my own novel.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Faerlyte wrote...

The Reapers could have gone after another species, or they could have gone after all of them. The latter would make the most sense because these alien species are highly evolved intelligent beings, like us, and I find it highly unlikely that they each wouldn't have something to offer to the Reapers. They will have strengths and weaknesses just like humans, and their strengths might compliment our weaknesses. Who is to say that you couldn't combine all the best traits of every species to create an ultimate Reaper? Why is it confined to one?

I was referring to the entire series, yes. I've always been a big fan of Executor Pallin myself, because he hit the nail on the head with what he said - humans were in a rush to attain power in the galaxy and they were being given a lot  (something to that effect anyway).  You have all these other "lesser" species that have been around for a lot longer than humans, but they aren't allowed on the council, and yet humans push for it relentlessly without paying their dues. You don't charge in there like you own the place - that's what I mean by entitlement.

You can have a human lead without the human race being the focus of a game. This is the general point I'm trying to make. I don't believe you need a human lead for a story to be interesting, but I don't mind a human lead that's just out there to do good for everybody, regardless of race or species, and not for their own agenda. Any person can see and identify humanity in other species, especially humanoid ones, if they want to.

I don't think the Reapers are going to go after just humanity.  I think they're likely to hit Earth first and hardest and prioritize humanity.  So as always in Mass Effect, humanity is plot-critical, but the rest of the galaxy is still there and integral to the story.

As for a human lead trying to help everyone--the closest thing you've got at the moment is Paragon Shep.  But that's the problem--the attitude that a Spectre should help everyone without favoring his/her own species is a more-or-less Paragon one.  What about all the players who tend to play Renegade?  Preferring your own species is not an unreasonable or extreme view--for all the flack they get, characters like Ash and Miranda are not simply xenophobic or psychotic.  And honestly, the attitude toward humans espoused by a lot of the aliens in the ME universe are a lot more violent and hostile than theirs.  The ability of the hero to be larger-minded and aid all species rather than just his/her own should, at least in a tale like Mass Effect, be a roleplaying decision and not a hard-coded story one. 

BioWare makes good games, but yeah, their story telling isn't exactly in the original department. If I had my druthers it would be, which is why I'm luke warm on the trailer and where it seems like they're going to take the series. I can cut some slack when it comes to what a game developer is capable of building within time constraints, but creating a storyline isn't rocket science so I'm less inclined to cut them slack for dishing out cliches, especially when I'm buying their games anyway. I never expected them to deviate from this tried and true method of theirs, but I can hope, and I'm still going to be somewhat disappointed when we revisit the same thing that countless plotlines have done before.

Shamus Young's strip pretty much sums up my feelings on story, execution, etc.  Just look at the mindscrews that were PS:T and Mask of the Betrayer.  

I'm going to make a gelato analogy because gelato is delicious.  BioWare makes standard gelato flavors--vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, etc.  Sure the flavors are nothing new, but that is the best goddamn chocolate gelato you have ever had in your entire life.  Studios like Obsidian make weird flavors--spicy chocolate, lavender, bacon, lemon basil, etc.  Sometimes it works, and it BLOWS YOUR MIND with yum.  Sometimes it's really gross.  But it's always different. 

But gelato is very different from video games in that gelato does not cost $60 a pop.  So while I go for weird flavors of gelato, I tend to be less experiment-y in my video games.  I appreciate originality, but I do approach it with caution because it can backfire spectacularly, and that's $60 down the drain for me.  Even worse for the developing studio.

Anyway, I've derailed the thread long enough, but I'll be happy to continue this chat via PM if you like

A Garrus-related question:  How do y'all want the epilogue for ME3 to turn out?  How much detail about Garrus and FemShep?  I'm personally a fan of DA:O or Hordes of the Underdark's "And then you rode off into the sunset, you badass you" approach rather than getting details about my PC's life after saving everyone's asses.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

@Kim: Screenies and analysis thread are here: http://social.biowar...5/index/5429494

Thanks, those screenshots are much better than what I could see in the video. I'm not sure if it could be a turian though. I don't see any leg spurs there. But I would guess that it's some sort of husk. Even though most of the human husks look the same, with their form still close to a normal human, Saren as a husk wasn't shaped much like a turian anymore. If I had to guess, the amount of Reaper influence and the way they're created can probably make them appear more distorted. Most of the husks we've seen were created by those spikes, Saren was implanted for them to assume direct control, and there was another method mentioned that I don't remember right now. It could be any of the thinner species.

Wow, missed this.  I'm not saying it couldn't be some sort of husk, but of EXISTING PROFILES from the first two games, it doesn't really fit anything neatly.  Saren as a husk was a special case--correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think your standard husks are directly implanted the way Saren was.  His cybernetics doing a freak-out was what caused his body to asplode.  My feeling is that if you stuck a turian on dragon's teeth as a standard husk, it'd probably look a lot like a turian.  Even the heavily implanted Grayson had a human shape and wasn't nearly as distorted as our shadowy screenshot friend.  I think the other method you're thinking of might be the Reaper signal, but that doesn't distort someone's actual shape so much as it indoctrinates.  Correct me if you're thinking of something different.

Bottom line: I have no idea, but it's fun to speculate   I think the figure doesn't really match any known profiles cleanly, though it is the closest to turian.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

*shakes head* gah, Sable, your mentioning of Gelato just got me thinking of a scene in Alpha Protocol (anyone that has played it will know which one am talking about)... neeed to get that thought out my head.



With regards the husky thing the sniper took, I can't see how it can be anything but a standard generic husk or something we've not even encountered yet. If you think about it, they've been in the dark for aaaages, unless it something they just got (which would have to be a human that has been impaled on a dragon's tooth (the spikes they use to make humans into husks) then it has to be something that has been inside them for all that time.



Sooo... a non-collectorfied prothean maybe?

Edit: @Kim yeah would be interesting if we do go to Palaven. Part of me can't see them having some area that Garrus doesn't know of, but then it also got me wondering about Earth...

With London in the trailer and people speculating about us meeting up with Big Ben, unless he takes a gunship or shuttle to some other location, wouldn't that surely mean that we are going to go to london. If that is the case, are they going to stipulate that Earthborn Shep also maybe grew up in London?
I know Anderson is allegedly from there but it would seem a bit silly to tie Shep down to one specific area.

Anyway I hope we get to go to Mindoir and also that Spacers get to meet their mother, seems only fair if Earthborn could potentially get to go to their old stomping grounds when they were growing up. That way Motoko can go wth Garrus to Mindoir and show him where she grew up.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 13 décembre 2010 - 05:38 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

*shakes head* gah, Sable, your mentioning of Gelato just got me thinking of a scene in Alpha Protocol (anyone that has played it will know which one am talking about)... neeed to get that thought out my head.

I am blissfully ignorant.  And I'd like to keep it that way.  *waves rusty spork threateningly*

...I still think the husk thing is almost identical to a DA:O shriek.  But that would be brain-breakingly hilarrible, which is part of why I want it.

Shep:  Great.  Darkspawn on top of Reapers.  FML.
Warden: Don't complain.  Your world isn't dark fantasy.
Shep:  Yeah, you only had to worry about millions of people dead.  I've got TRILLIONS.
Warden: Shep, shut your pie hole.  It could be a lot worse.
Shep:  We're being attacked by machine Cthuhlu-oid AIs from the beyond, demonic tainted creatures, and I have to share my goddamn game with another BioWare protagonist of all things.  How could it possibly be worse?
Warden: *quietly* Warhammer 40k.
Shep:  *pause*  
*pops a heat sink*
...point.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 décembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Aeowyn]

Hidden under the plates

[Sialater]

LOL, that's something to be talked about in Clan V.

[lovgreno]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
A Garrus-related question:  How do y'all want the epilogue for ME3 to turn out?  How much detail about Garrus and FemShep?  I'm personally a fan of DA:O or Hordes of the Underdark's "And then you rode off into the sunset, you badass you" approach rather than getting details about my PC's life after saving everyone's asses.

Good enough for me. Shep and Garrus may be a romantic badasses sometimes but still always badass.

[Kim Shepard]

@Sable: I found the husk info I was thinking about, from a conversation about indoctrination in Clan V. It was two quotes that I got from the Wiki.

It is currently unknown why the Husks used by the geth were less advanced and no other husk variants were seen alongside the geth, though it is possible that Sovereign was uncomfortable about giving the geth too much Reaper technology. The basic Collector-produced husk seems somewhat different than geth-produced husks, lacking the electrical attack and using armor for defenses rather than kinetic barriers.

This one, I'm not too sure about. The Wiki saw a difference, but I didn't. Too busy shooting at the husks and spamming Throw to notice, I guess.

An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas finds an alien artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not look like dragon's teeth at all but instead is an orb filled with an unknown energy source that turned the excavation team into Husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks.

This is the one I was thinking of. I'm not sure if they looked any different, but the methods in creating them were.

In Saren's case, I don't think he was a husk exactly, but he was the closest we've ever seen to a turian husk. His implants would have been more like Grayson's, done over a long period of time. The reason why he looked so different is because Sovereign assumed direct control, which seems to cause incineration. The Collectors were probably built to handle it better - they incinerate, but they basically look like Collectors on fire, while most of Saren's body aside from the implants was destroyed.

So it sounds like husks can look very different depending on what kind of Reaper technology is used. The one from the trailer could be any one of those... or a darkspawn. There was a DA staute in Kasumi's loyalty mission. Crossover time! xD

To answer your question about the end of ME3, I agree that a simple way of letting us know Shepard and Garrus stayed together would be best. Vague is almost always best when it comes to Shepard. Wouldn't want the epilogue to assume direct control and make her do something out of character.

@Sir Ulrich: Yeah, it would seem like a wasted opportunity if Garrus had nothing to say on Palaven. Building an army probably means that we'll be going to a major city from each planet, so there should be more chance Garrus has been there at least once in his life.

I hope we do get to rescue Big Ben in London. That would be awesome. I'd like them to leave references of Shepard's past out of it though. I have a few Earthborns who all grew up in different places (unless BioWare says they didn't). If London is Anderson's hometown, that's good enough. It could be interesting to see Mindoir too, and the Shepard memorial. Spacer Shepard's mom might have to remain unseen though. Too many Shepards with different appearances. They could just go with the "Shep takes after dad" theory, but it could be weird. I've heard that DAO had that problem with the origin stories. Somehow, I managed to create Wardens that looked like their families and thought that the game changed their NPCs to fit in with that. xD It would be great if Shepard's mom was leading a human ship and communicated with Shepard the same way Admiral Hackett did.

There's a lot of potential for all three backgrounds. They should include a few conversations with squadmates where we could build on what happened in Shepard's past.

Shepard: Earth looks just like I remember it.
Garrus: Really? Was it always covered in fire and debris?
Shepard: Not so much after I left.

[Alienmorph]

Kim Shepard wrote...

In Saren's case, I don't think he was a husk exactly, but he was the closest we've ever seen to a turian husk. His implants would have been more like Grayson's, done over a long period of time. The reason why he looked so different is because Sovereign assumed direct control, which seems to cause incineration. The Collectors were probably built to handle it better - they incinerate, but they basically look like Collectors on fire, while most of Saren's body aside from the implants was destroyed.

Saren's final appearance imho is much more closer to the Collectors than to the husks. The Sovereing "improved" him with implants similar to the one that let Harbringer to assume the control of Collectors. Simply he looks more like an husk just because Collectors were intented by BW later. So yes, I agree.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:48 .