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[Sialater]

It makes sense for Tali, Garrus and even Jacob to object to bringing Legion on board. Who else objects?

[Kim Shepard]

It's not that I think Garrus objecting to Legion is unrealistic or out of character for him, it's just that he never says anything about it if Tali (or anyone else who would comment on this before him) is in the squad. The best system would be to have both squadmates have one opinion, the one that makes sense for them, and for them both to speak up against or in favor of Shepard's decision. Wouldn't that system be easier anyway, because it would only require one line of dialogue for each character instead of two? Shepard doesn't need one squadmate to speak up for each option. We know our options - the dialogue wheel presents them quite clearly.

Alienmorph wrote...

In ME1 Tali is more renegade than Garrus... I guess it was the natural quarian cinism they developed after centuries of exile. She's the one between them than also suggest to let the Council die in the final battle if you to trought the Conduit with them too. In ME2 their rholes got almost inverted... but it's quite easy to guess why... Tali spent two years trying to became a leader (unsussesfully), following the expectations of her father and the example of Shepard... Garrus settled on Omega and became a vigilante...

Thanks for telling me. I had been told before that Tali should have been more Paragon than Garrus, which is where the confusion came in during Noveria. It's strange that Garrus is on the more Paragon side of the scale during ME1 though, because by Mass Effect definitions, his morality would be Renegon.

[Sialater]

Kim Shepard wrote...

It's not that I think Garrus objecting to Legion is unrealistic or out of character for him, it's just that he never says anything about it if Tali (or anyone else who would comment on this before him) is in the squad. The best system would be to have both squadmates have one opinion, the one that makes sense for them, and for them both to speak up against or in favor of Shepard's decision. Wouldn't that system be easier anyway, because it would only require one line of dialogue for each character instead of two? Shepard doesn't need one squadmate to speak up for each option. We know our options - the dialogue wheel presents them quite clearly.

Garrus should then also speak up along with Jack in the SM meeting about Miranda's leadership ability instead of just nodding his head since we know he's the other one to object in that scene.

[Kim Shepard]

That would have been nice too. Most of us would have never known Garrus' opinion about Miranda because it can only be seen if we don't fully upgrade the ship and Jack dies. Actually, a few squadmates giving their opinions for or against the assigned roles during the suicide mission would be great. Someone really should have spoken up when Jacob offered to go through the vents... or did everyone just agree that was a good idea?

[Sialater]

Kim Shepard wrote...

That would have been nice too. Most of us would have never known Garrus' opinion about Miranda because it can only be seen if we don't fully upgrade the ship and Jack dies. Actually, a few squadmates giving their opinions for or against the assigned roles during the suicide mission would be great. Someone really should have spoken up when Jacob offered to go through the vents... or did everyone just agree that was a good idea?

He was boring?  They wanted him dead? 

I'm kidding.

I'm surprised Garrus didn't volunteer there.

[Kim Shepard]

Jacob: Sounds like a suicide mission. I volunteer.
Other squadmates: ...No complaints here. Good luck with that.

You'd think someone might mention the fact that Jacob has no tech skill at all. xD Or maybe "send in the robot." Garrus could make some sense, as he is an infiltrator and has some tech skill, but definitely not enough. Would he think that his tech skill was enough to manage, or do you think that he might volunteer because he's fairly confident in his ability to make it back from a suicide mission? From my point of view, someone with an infiltrator-type class with a lot of tech skill makes the most sense, like Legion (or Kasumi, if she's there). I can see Garrus and the others having similar thoughs about that, with Garrus being brought up because he's an infiltrator.

Although, going along with that train of thought... Thane going through the vents might seem like a good idea, if they were to ignore his lack of tech skill like Jacob. It's a good thing Shepard knows what she's doing.

[Aeowyn]

Well doesn't Miranda say "You wouldn't be able to hack the vents. We need a tech expert." or something along those lines. Guess she's the only one who cares hah (kidding)

I would've liked to hear some of the crew's opinions of each other. I mean, we all know that Jack hates Miranda, but tbf I was a bit surprised when Garrus protested against her on my first playthrough. Not because it's not like him, but because, well, he hadn't even said anything. Although I guess it's because she's TIM's spy and that's why.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 21 décembre 2010 - 10:49 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Sialater wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

That would have been nice too. Most of us would have never known Garrus' opinion about Miranda because it can only be seen if we don't fully upgrade the ship and Jack dies. Actually, a few squadmates giving their opinions for or against the assigned roles during the suicide mission would be great. Someone really should have spoken up when Jacob offered to go through the vents... or did everyone just agree that was a good idea?

He was boring?  They wanted him dead? 

I'm kidding.

I'm surprised Garrus didn't volunteer there.

Honest truth?

I doubt Garrus thought he'd fit through said vents.  I may be misremembering since I haven't been able to play ME2 for a while (and I'm not playing again until I have a shiny new ME1 save game I can actually port--not interested in a default game just yet), but he's one of the tallest people on your squad, plus he's got that turian collar and fringe going on.  Legion isn't tiny, but it also seems more flexible to fit into such tight spaces.

If he thought he'd fit though?  Yeah, I can see Garrus volunteering.  And probably dying.  He's a decent tech in ME1, but he's not an engineer.

[Kim Shepard]

I didn't remember Miranda saying anything, but that line does sound familiar. Well, I'm glad someone tried to talk Jacob out of that horrible plan. xD It is unfortunate that we don't know most of the squadmates' opinions of each other for sure. The DAO squad has opinions about everyone and they make sure you know it. At least some of it is said, and some of it can be assumed, but I never would have guessed Garrus had such a strong opinion about Legion if Tali speaks up instead of him. Same with Miranda, as the only thing he says to Shepard about her and Jacob is that the Cerberus crew treats him well enough.

As for Garrus and the vents, I don't think they're so small that he has to worry about fitting inside. As far as I remember, those issues were never brought up in-game, and the tech specialist didn't look too cramped in there. Garrus is only a little taller than human men, and not so much wider that he would have problems in the vents.

[AdmiralCheez]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

If he thought he'd fit though?  Yeah, I can see Garrus volunteering.  And probably dying.  He's a decent tech in ME1, but he's not an engineer.

THESE DOORS, HOW DO I CALIBRATE THEM?

I think it's unusually cruel to send Garrus through the vents, as for as intentional deaths go.  I mean, seriously, he takes enough missles to the face already!

[Evelinessa]

Aeowyn wrote...

If you're more renegade than paragon it will say you're renegade and vice versa. When I imported Ivy (profile pic) from ME1 (she was paragade with like half a bar more paragon than renegade) it said she followed the paragon path o.O

Ok, thank you .

Also, I could never kill Garrus or any squadmate for that matter but especially Garrus. I'm still near the beginning of ME1 on my current playthrough and when you first meet Garrus in the council chambers I sat there for almost a minute deciding if I should pick the renegade option or not. I can't be mean to him but luckily the renegade response was the same line as a paragon.

[Kim Shepard]

I wouldn't kill off Garrus or any of my favorites either. Other squadmates and the crew, sure. In my next ME2 playthrough with a paranoid Sole Survivor, Miranda and the Cerberus crew will get killed off.

[Aeowyn]

I can never watch any of those "all squad members killed" - videos. They just make me sad. However, I'm currently replaying my canon and I've decided not to have all squaddies survive, as this is a suicide mission and well...it seems more realistic to have at least a couple of squad members die. Still haven't decided who to kill off though. Definitely keeping Garrus, Mordin and Tali.

[Kim Shepard]

I think at least half of my Shepards will get everyone out alive, but not all of them are perfect leaders or determined to save everyone. At least two of my Shepards will let sme people get killed off intentionally (the paranoid Sole Survivor included). MainShep saves everyone, even though she doesn't like all of them.

[silentstephi]

*peeks in* I think the hardest PT I did was my xenophobe Eve. She got all her aliens killed.

I didn't talk to Garrus at ALL through that playthrough. It was rough.



He died unloyal to swarm, I think. I had to turn the sound off. >.<



Oh hai guys. Hope your holidays are going swimmingly. ^.^

[SavageLycan]

Wow. I haven't poked my head in a Garrus Love thread in so long. Glad they're still going. Motivates me to make a new video. Maybe a sequel of some sort to "Afternoon Delight" ha ha.

[Kim Shepard]

Hey, Stephi. Wow, I won't even have a playthrough where I don't recruit Garrus in ME1. Killing him off... that's just sad. I'm glad Garrus is so loyal that even my EvilShep likes him. I would totally metagame their choices or motives to keep my favorites alive, but luckily, that wasn't necessary with Garrus. (Evilshep will have no suicide mission deaths, actually. He's evil, but still really smart. When people die, it's because he wanted it that way... like on Torfan.)

@SavageLycan: More Garrus videos would be great. Did you make the video of Garrus dancing in Flux? That one's awesome.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I nearly lol'd at the Jacob remarks above.



Well about the suicide mission, never thought the vent thing made sense since I chose Legion since he's a robot, and therefore not really affected by heat like organics are but what-d'-ya-know, turns out he is.



And I always chose Garrus as the fireteam leader since the only other option in my mind was Miranda and I find her patronising enough without being given authority.

[SavageLycan]

Kim Shepard wrote...

@SavageLycan: More Garrus videos would be great. Did you make the video of Garrus dancing in Flux? That one's awesome.

Ha. Yeah, that was me. God, seems like a hundred years ago now. 

[Brass_Buckles]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Brass_Buckles wrote...

If he thought he'd fit though?  Yeah, I can see Garrus volunteering.  And probably dying.  He's a decent tech in ME1, but he's not an engineer.

THESE DOORS, HOW DO I CALIBRATE THEM?

I think it's unusually cruel to send Garrus through the vents, as for as intentional deaths go.  I mean, seriously, he takes enough missles to the face already!

Ha!

Well, I don't tend to send my squaddies to their deaths in the first place.  My first ME2 playthrough (I miss my MainShep and now I can never remake her... it wouldn't be the same) I actually managed to save everybody but Mordin.  And then I was so upset that I lost Mordin and not, say, Jack or Grunt, that I went back and figured out how to save him too.  So then nobody died.  But now I have to replay.  I wish it were possible to permanently be rid of both Miranda and Jacob, but I keep hearing it's nearly impossible to get rid of Miranda.  I may do a horribly cruel playthrough where the ones I don't care for much all end up dead.  It's not that I hate them, really.  Even Miranda has her moments of awesome.  But Miranda frequently feels like she's just there to shake her booty for male players, Jack's half-naked and has a foul mouth and oh yeah, I can't actually have a conversation with her past a certain point without her thinking I'm hitting on her.  Jacob is... well, he's Jacob.  As friends he's okay I guess, but I don't dare turn my back on him, not with his attitude about Garrus.  And Grunt?  Well his only real downfall is that he's not anywhere near as awesome as Wrex.  Or even some of the NPC krogan.  Zaeed I actually like from an out of character standpoint (purely as a character--but as a person?  No.), but I don't think most of my Shepards do, since I usually lean far paragon--not to mention he's a loose cannon as much as Grunt is if not more so.

Hmm, so an ideal party for me in ME3 would probably be Shep, Garrus, Thane, Kasumi, Tali, and Samara--oh and Mordin, can't forget Mordin 'cause he's awesome.  Then I'd pick up the Virmire Survivor in ME3.

But yeah, I had forgotten you can send Garrus into the vents anyway.   Maybe he doesn't volunteer because it's alien tech and he's not sure he'd be able to hack it in time.  I dunno.  I think everyone should've had something to say.   I understand DA2's going to have a feature where you can ask your party members their opinion.  Maybe ME3 will also have this feature.

One thing I do agree on is we should be able to get only ONE opinion from each character, so if you have two renegades, they ought to be giving you renegade opinions, rather than one renegade and one paragon like little shoulder angels and devils.  That thought gave me a mental image earlier of Shepard with a little Garrus with a halo on one shoulder, and a little Wrex with devil horns on the other.  A Shep with that pair of shoulder-consciences would lean renegade for sure!

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 22 décembre 2010 - 01:19 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Kim Shepard wrote...

I think at least half of my Shepards will get everyone out alive, but not all of them are perfect leaders or determined to save everyone. At least two of my Shepards will let sme people get killed off intentionally (the paranoid Sole Survivor included). MainShep saves everyone, even though she doesn't like all of them.

I did actually kill off two squaddies on purpose in my most recent playthrough of my MainShep--I have two completed playthroughs for her--one perfect one, and one less perfect one where I really did roleplay every decision.  I failed Zaeed's mission and never got around to Thane's--they both died on the Collector Base.  Thane during the hold the line sequence, and Zaeed when sent back with the surviving crew.

The rationale was partly meta and partly roleplaying.  Meta reasons, Zaeed is cool but DLC and unlikely to get a lot of content for ME3.  I liked the idea of giving him a chance at redemption.  And as for Thane, in the event that he dies of Kepral's in ME3, I might as well let him go out in a blaze of glory in ME2 instead.

For roleplaying reasons, I've always found it interesting to have something go not absolutely perfectly for Shep.  Shep's badass, but not perfect, and I think that's a lesson my Shep needs to learn.  She'll be better for it come ME3.  She's under so much emotional duress in ME2 just by virtue of having to work with Cerberus--she might believe she's doing the right thing and she has no other options if she wants to save the galaxy, but it doesn't make working with an organization she loathes any less of a bitter pill to swallow.  She just bottled up all her resentment and pushed all the loose ends for herself to the side; took her a while to warm up to the ME2 crew apart from her ME1 holdovers, and that's just not ok on a suicide mission where you all need to trust each other.  She pays for it, and I think she'll learn from it.

[Brass_Buckles]

A random thought, and it's probably come up before. I was (yet again) trying to convince a gamer friend that he really, really needs to get hold of a used copy of ME1 (he's got an XBox 360) and was talking about the turian councilor and how he hates Shepard so much. I brought up the speculation about how fans think Nihlus and the Councilor may be related somehow. Of course even if they aren't, mere colony affiliation could have had some bearing on the councilor's negativity even barring an initially anti-human attitude, but I digress.

I was thinking about the different face paint--and I don't remember who it is who has the face tattoo library, but you could see that a lot of the patterns were part of another, larger pattern. It seems like, with few exceptions, the higher-ranking the turian you meet, the more elaborate his face paint will be. I'm not able to think of any immediate contradictions. Lorik maybe?

Just think about it. In C-Sec, almost everybody's got just cheekplates painted. Some have mandibles. A handful have forehead paint. Garrus has a simple pattern just on his mandibles and cheekplates--we know he's not all that high-ranked. But Pallin in ME1 has some seriously complex paint going on. We can assume they all come from different colonies, but the average C-Sec turian we meet is just going to have a little blue paint, only part of his colony's full facial markings. He hasn't earned the full complement and maybe he never will. This could have a symbolic meaning. If you're lower in rank, your face doesn't reflect your colony that much, but if you're high-ranked and wearing the full face pattern, then you definitely represent that colony to all who see you. In fact it may be that many turians won't even recognize another turian's colony at first without asking where he's from, because they'd probably learn the full pattern. In this way, a sharp-eyed turian might remember that this mark on the chin goes with that full-face pattern, but the actions of a grunt won't condemn an entire colony's honor. Of course, the higher rank you are, the more complicated your pattern, and the easier it is to associate you with your home colony. So simple paint means you're just you, but more complex paint represents the unity of the many people who make up the colony you were chosen to represent.  Maybe this is part of the reason that turians are hung up on honor? As you rise in rank, not only are you more recognizable, but it's going to reflect on your colony more too, whether your actions are good or bad. You're a part, a representation, of the greater whole, and if you're higher-ranked, you're a figurehead--this goes with the turian ideal of being part of a greater whole, and each individual working toward the greater good rather than his individual gain.

Edited to add:  Note that I'm aware this is not always the case.  Of course there are bare-faced turians like Saren who had a lot of rank, and some who may hold rank within a company or space station but who aren't actually that important within turian society.  I think the complexity = rank thing has been brought up before, but maybe not precisely in this context of the pattern becoming more recognizeable because the more important you are, the more weight your actions carry in regard to the colony's reputation (because you are representing that colony).  I really only think this reflects one's status as a turian citizen of the Hierarchy--a turian's social status outside of the Hierarchy may generally be considered higher.  For instance, a turian who owns a tech firm may be considered very important to humanity, but because he's self-serving and won't use his knowledge or money for the gain of the Hierarchy, he may not be a very highly-ranked citizen and  won't be allowed to wear very complex paint.

Of course I could also just be tired and still a little feverish, too.

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 22 décembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[leggywillow]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

And I always chose Garrus as the fireteam leader since the only other option in my mind was Miranda and I
find her patronising enough without being given authority.

I usually do too.  It's always Garrus or Jacob... sometimes I just can't bear to leave Garrus out of my personal squad, so Jacob gets the job.  From a role-playing stance, it's because Shepard sees that a lot of the squad doesn't feel comfortable with Miranda and she thinks Garrus is a better leader than Jacob.

I also like the way Garrus's story resolves in ME2 if you let him be the fire team leader.  When we first see him in ME2, his squad is dead and he blames himself for it.  When the game ends, maybe he'll feel redeemed
from successfully leading a team in the SM.



I have a Garrus-y question.  I feel like a perv, but if I can't ask it here, I can't ask anywhere!  Plus I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere.

... how do you think Shepard and Garrus "do it'?  What do you think are some specific turian mating rituals?  (For example, kissing for humans, but that obviously doesn't work for turians.)

Modifié par leggywillow, 22 décembre 2010 - 04:07 .

[SavageLycan]

leggywillow wrote...

I have a Garrus-y question.  I feel like a perv, but if I can't ask it here, I can't ask anywhere!  Plus I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere.

... how do you think Shepard and Garrus "do it'?  What do you think are some specific turian mating rituals?  (For example, kissing for humans, but that obviously doesn't work for turians.)

Feel like a perv? In the Garrus/Turian Love Thread? I'd say by now that's pretty much impossible. 

As for turian mating rituals, I dunno. For some reason I imagine love bites or scratches might play in. Of course, seeing as they have much tougher skin than humans, Shepherd may have to worry about more than chafing in the morning. 

[Sashimi_taco]

SavageLycan wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

I have a Garrus-y question.  I feel like a perv, but if I can't ask it here, I can't ask anywhere!  Plus I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere.

... how do you think Shepard and Garrus "do it'?  What do you think are some specific turian mating rituals?  (For example, kissing for humans, but that obviously doesn't work for turians.)

Feel like a perv? In the Garrus/Turian Love Thread? I'd say by now that's pretty much impossible. 

As for turian mating rituals, I dunno. For some reason I imagine love bites or scratches might play in. Of course, seeing as they have much tougher skin than humans, Shepherd may have to worry about more than chafing in the morning. 

"love" bites seems to be common in the imagination of fan fic writers. Also "growling". In my head all this is true and more....