29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Brass_Buckles]

I just hope Garrus is more talkative in ME3. I don't care if he doesn't talk about his feelings or if he never tells a Shep who romanced him that he loves her. I just want him to say something. Anything! At least insofar as he needs to say more than he currently does...

[Brass_Buckles]

Stephi, that's a lot of spreadsheet.



I also notice that one of the biggest sections is the Garrus romance discussion. I guess everyone just loves Garrus...

[Chimervera]

Stephi, you are amazing! *hands a gift basket full of Garrus plushies and alcohol*

Now get some sleep. /stern face.

Modifié par Chimervera, 06 juillet 2010 - 05:20 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Hmmmm.

A thought.  Do you think it's more male or female players who can't comprehend why anyone would want to have their Shepard romance Garrus?

As a female, even though if I saw anything like a turian in real life my reaction wouldn't be "I wanna date that," I have to say Garrus has a lot of advantages over, well, pretty much all the other romanceable males in-game.  Plus the "I just want something to go right" and the head-bump that somehow seems more intimate than a kiss.

Let's see... And I'm assuming that the romance is in fact a romance (Garrus just sounds too serious about wanting an "us" and hoping for things to go right for it just to be friends with benefits, not to mention Kasumi mentioning he really likes Shepard and having to break it off by just being friends), and not a fling, here:

Garrus's Advantages Over Kaidan:
• Loyal - Just because you're with Cerberus now doesn't make you his enemy.  He's willing to hear you out because he knows you have a good reason.
• Isn't gawking at all the other women in the clubs every time you enter them.  Or if he does, at least he doesn't comment on it.
• If he's flirty, it's not intentional (and probably subconscious on his part), whereas Kaidan, despite knowing the rules against fraternization in the Alliance, keeps up the very blatant flirting anyway.  I know some people would argue this is a disadvantage, but it helps to keep things professional within the squad.  That's hard to do with Kaidan coming onto you every few minutes.
• If you do break up, he'll clearly do his best to stay friends.  He's not going to email you later asking to see where it goes, or try to guilt trip you by implying vaguely that he never really got over you, even though he was just a jerk to you a few hours/days ago.
• Brandon Keener's voice.

Garrus's Advantages Over Liara:
• Most of us girls prefer male romantic interests.
• For those who swing both ways, though, Garrus isn't clingy.  He also is perfectly happy to rejoin you even if he has other business (Sidonis) to attend to at the time.
• Brandon Keener's voice.

Garrus's Advantages Over Jacob:
• Respect.  Garrus doesn't tell you he wasn't man enough for that recon scout, and then pursue you anyway.
• You are not a "prize" to be won to Garrus.  He just wants "a few moments that are just for us."  Tell me that you don't want to hear that line from someone.
• Trust.  Because Garrus is not actively a loyal member of an organization that may very well have tried to kill your Shep in the past.
• Lack of Speciest Attitude.  I don't see Garrus whining about Jacob.  Maybe he does if you assign Jacob as fire team leader, I don't know.  In ME1, yeah, Garrus can be a jerk about other species, but after Omega I think he's learned his lesson.
• Friendship.  This guy's been with you since the beginning.  He had your back then, he'll have it now.  And if things don't work out, you still have a great friend.  Just don't be mean and boot him during that final cut scene, because that's like kicking puppies.
• Enthusiasm.  Not just in combat, but in trying to make Shepard happy.  Let's face it, getting all dressed up, bringing you wine, and putting on some music?  It's cute.  Unfortunately his idea of a hot date doesn't go over as planned because of cultural differences, but he's trying really hard.  It's especially great because you know he's really nervous and uncertain about the whole situation to start with, but hey, he wouldn't be there if he didn't want it to happen, much less trying so very hard.
• If you say no, he believes it.  You don't have to tell him three times and appease him with a "we'll do this later."
• No constant sleazy voice acting for Shepard.  Save that for when Shep actually does throw herself at him, rather than when she's just chatting with him about Sidonis and the mission.
• Brandon Keener's voice.

Garrus's Advantages Over Thane:
• No perfect memory.  When you're with Garrus, he's probably thinking about you.  He's not going to have a flashback of his wife in the middle of that "interspecies intercourse."
• No purple prose.  Even if he did have flashbacks, I don't think Garrus would subject us to bad turian prose.  No sunset eyes here, thanks.
• No dead wife.  Even if the recon scout's dead, he didn't like her that much.  Shepard's apparently Garrus's first serious relationship.  She might also be his last.  You aren't going to be compared to someone else constantly, or expected to replace someone else.
• No serious past relationships (extension of the above mentioned lack of a dead wife).  Garrus doesn't have a serious ex-girlfriend (or wife) who's going to pop up and make things awkward in ME3.  At least, not that we know of, but he's so career-focused, it'd be very surprising if some turian lady suddenly appeared reminding him of what great dates they used to go on.  You won't be compared to That Other Woman, relationshipwise.  In bed?  Maybe.  But hey, you have his heart, right?
• Responsible for his own actions.  If Garrus does something horrible, he'll own up to it.  He's not going to say that his body did it but his soul is not responsible.  As a turian, he'll even take responsibility for things other people do while under his command.  Let's face it, the idea of a guy who's not going to blame everyone else for his own failings is pretty appealing.
• No children.  At least, none that we know of.  Obvious benefit?  No need for Shepard to serve as a second mother, and no concern that because he's got children with that other woman, Garrus might still be split between her and Shepard in his affections.
• No immediate threat of dying.  Garrus was ready to die on Omega, but with Shepard back, he's clearly okay with living again.  He doesn't have a life-threatening illness that's going to steal him away from Shepard within the next year.  Sure he could get shot dead during a mission, but his chances for survival seem markedly better than Thane's.
• Brandon Keener's voice.

The downsides of Garrus?  He's one of the last who'll pull you back up onto the Normandy.  He also doesn't warn you about the batarian bartender, although to be fair, neither does Mordin--and Mordin should definitely know about it too.  My thought on the batarian and Garrus:  He's so shocked that you're back from the dead that, on top of the shock of losing his entire squad, he can't even process the idea of a threat to you.  Of course it could also be that he resents you a little, but I don't think he's quite that hostile that he'd let you die of poison.  I guess Shep should just learn to drink a bit slower, yeah?

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 06 juillet 2010 - 07:21 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Well uh, its kind of both. Ignorant people would just think that garrus is the punisher in a cat/lizard hybrid costume.

[Brass_Buckles]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well uh, its kind of both. Ignorant people would just think that garrus is the punisher in a cat/lizard hybrid costume.

I do know a few months back some girl was whining she didn't want aliens in her party because they weren't attractive.  I can kind of see some shallow people being like that.  A lot of female Garrus romance fans do find him physically appealing.  I don't see it, but I'm not so shallow that I can't look past it (and I presume he's pretty darn attractive as a turian prior to getting face-rocketed, if his dialogue's any indication), especially in the context of a game.

But why do a lot of guys think it's so horrible and weird?  Because Garrus doesn't look human?  Surely the male half of the population is aware that women aren't all about the sexy bods.  Most guys are attracted to a woman's appearance first.  Women are attracted by appearance but then the smart ones are immediately repelled if the guy has a bad personality.

In the context of a make-believe game, I don't see what's wrong with romancing the aliens.  It's not like we'd do so in real life (or maybe we would even if it's despite ourselves, but the fact remains that there aren't any friendly aliens out there watching our six for us to fall for).

Also I will add to the downsides of Garrus:  He's not human, there will be chafing if you sleep with him, and also there's a risk of anaphylactic shock, especially if you "ingest."  I think the fact that most players of Femshep would rather die (via anaphylactic shock) than sleep with Jacob is kind of telling.

[Collider]

I don't remember a lot of guys thinking it's weird. There was a poll done by enormousmoonboots that had Garrus as the preferred male love interest for F!Shepard.

[Kim Shepard]

Nice list. There are a lot of reasons to like Garrus' romance.

And I doubt he's looking at those dancers in the bars, by the way. It sounds like Shepard is the first non-turian he's ever thought about in that way, so the human and asari dancers probably wouldn't interest him at all.

• If you say no, he believes it.  You don't have to tell him three times and appease him with a "we'll do this later."

After getting MaleShep caught in Liara's romance when he already turned her down, this just makes Garrus even more awesome. The other romantic interests should learn from him.

[Brass_Buckles]

Collider wrote...

I don't remember a lot of guys thinking it's weird. There was a poll done by enormousmoonboots that had Garrus as the preferred male love interest for F!Shepard.

I am not sure the polls reflect everyone, though.  I think a lot of people don't bother with polls.  I don't usually.  I do see a lot of posts whining about how romancing Garrus is weird, how they can't imagine why anyone would want to, and how the fan art is sick and etc.  (I don't look at much fan art, I'm assuming they're seeing some seriously X-rated stuff.  And this is why I don't look at much fan art...)

I've also seen some whining about Tali being romanceable.  There are some valid concerns due to her being faceless, but considering how many guys want to see her face, and the fact that physically speaking her body isn't as shapely as Miranda's?  I'd say that the Tali fans are interested in more than just Tali's curves--though I hear there is some scary Tali stuff out there.  Personally I don't even see her as much of a "sister" or "best friend" in ME1, but it's been a while since I played through ME2 and talked to her.  (I think Kasumi is the most likely best female friend for FemShep though...)

Oh don't get me wrong, there's some sick stuff out there.  I've stumbled across some of that sick stuff.  But you know what?  As long as the creator of the fic or art is grounded in reality?  Let them have their fun.  Just because I think it's gross or sick or whatever doesn't mean everyone else does or even that it reflects what that person wants out of real life.  And you know, I do after all have the ability to avoid it.

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 06 juillet 2010 - 08:43 .

[Tootles FTW]

Well done, Brass, love your entire breakdown! Few comments:

Brass_Buckles wrote...
• Enthusiasm.  Not just in combat, but in trying to make Shepard happy.  Let's face it, getting all dressed up, bringing you wine, and putting on some music?  It's cute.  Unfortunately his idea of a hot date doesn't go over as planned because of cultural differences, but he's trying really hard.  It's especially great because you know he's really nervous and uncertain about the whole situation to start with, but hey, he wouldn't be there if he didn't want it to happen, much less trying so very hard.

I never was able to verbalize it, but THIS!  I love this aspect of Garrus's personality - he's very much a man, but he has this playful yet focused quality that I find very attractive (a trait which can also be found in DA:O's Alistair). Men who take themselves too seriously are a huge turn-off, and Garrus has just the right amount of humor and eagerness to offset the mood.

Brass_Buckles wrote...
•  No dead wife.  Even if the recon scout's dead, he didn't like her that much.  Shepard's apparently Garrus's first serious relationship.  She might also be his last.  You aren't going to be compared to someone else constantly, or expected to replace someone else.
• No serious past relationships (extension of the above mentioned lack of a dead wife).  Garrus doesn't have a serious ex-girlfriend (or wife) who's going to pop up and make things awkward in ME3.  At least, not that we know of, but he's so career-focused, it'd be very surprising if some turian lady suddenly appeared reminding him of what great dates they used to go on.  You won't be compared to That Other Woman, relationshipwise.  In bed?  Maybe.  But hey, you have his heart, right?

I'm disagreeing with these points simply because we don't know enough about his (romantic) past to make assumptions.  Just because he hasn't regaled us with stories of his dead wife or how one of his teammates "deserves a better man" then him, doesn't mean he hasn't had a serious relationship prior to meeting FemShep.  I don't necessarily want to hear about his exes or meet them in-game, but I would suspect that he's been involved with at least a handfull of women.  He seems a perfectly healthy young man to me with a good head on his shoulders and a very agreeable personality, so I would find it more surprising if he hasn't seen his fair share o' the ladies. 

[Nilfalasiel]

Stephi, you're a heroine. Here's some virtual chocolate for ya! Or vodka. Or both. Whichever you prefer

Just going back a bit. Concerning Samara’s morality, as far as I understood, she’d only off people who willingly stood in her way, not civilians who just happened to be dragged into the whole thing. Which is why she didn’t kill the civilian in Nihlus’ case. If she simply killed people for being in the way, she wouldn’t have hesitated. But she did. As for the police officers: they DO actually have the choice of disobeying their superiors/resigning/asking to be pulled off the case. They choose not to, and that’s willing enough for her. Harsh, yes, but not completely indiscriminating: it's a form of obstruction to justice. Whereas Garrus ordered Saleon’s ship to be gunned down with no concern for collateral damage to the Citadel citizens and none for the patients aboard. I’m sorry, but “they were dead anyway” is just not good enough of an excuse for me. If he had managed to apprehend the ship in some other way, some of those patients could have received medical treatment and a few might still have been saved. Or at least, it’s entirely possible to believe that, since we’re not given any details on the patients. The fact that C-Sec never did manage to apprehend the ship in any other way is a whole other can o’ worms.
 

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I am about to do Garrus loyalty mission, If I am going to romance him, how do the rest of you do it?

If you're wondering if his LM has any bearing on his romance, it doesn't. Play it however you like, you'll still be able to romance Garrus.

If you're asking how to conduct the actual romance, it's very straightforward. When you talk to him after his LM, ask him about how turians prepare for big missions, then tell him you want to release stress together. When he asks about sparring, say that's not what you meant. Romance started. It's pretty much always the top-right options, EXCEPT in the last convo before the actual romance scene (the one that loops; "I want a few moments just for us"). The top-right at that point will stop the romance (it's something like "I just want to be friends"), so pick the middle-right.

Much more straightforward than DA:O romances.
 

praetor_alpha wrote…
 
But then I set him straight with Sidonis, that there's far worse punishment than what a rifle can give.

 
QFA (agreement). But I'll let sleeping dogs lie.
 

Brass_Buckles wrote…
 
Garrus's Advantages Over Kaidan:
*snip*
• If he's flirty, it's not intentional (and probably subconscious on his part), whereas Kaidan, despite knowing the rules against fraternization in the Alliance, keeps up the very blatant flirting anyway.  I know some people would argue this is a disadvantage, but it helps to keep things professional within the squad.  That's hard to do with Kaidan coming onto you every few minutes.

 
That’s not entirely true. I agree that the conversation tree doesn’t leave you enough choices to get out of the romance at some points, but Shep’s behaviour and what she actually *says* IS encouraging Kaidan’s flirting. She talks to him about personal stuff, and when he asks whether she always talks to her subordinates like that, she says “no, just you” (in 3 different ways). If that’s not encouragement, I don’t know what is. He also leaves you several outs in later conversations and even states so himself during the lockdown: “you know me, I always leave an out for the other person”. So no, if he’s coming onto Shep it’s because Shep is encouraging him. He’s the one who brings up the rules against fraternization, and Shep who decides to throw caution to the wind in the end. Kaidan’s flirting isn’t actually as unsolicited as Ashley’s (who will tell you “so behave” before you even hint at romance at ALL and without asking you whether she's imagining things or not) or Liara’s, who gets ideas about a mutual attraction.

As for why people are put off by the Garrus romance, one word: zoophilia/bestiality (yes, that's two words, but you pick one ). That’s the single most common argument I’ve seen thrown around. Some people think that Garrus’ appearance automatically means that he’s an animal, and if you want to hit that, then you’re some sort of crazed furry who wants to bang sheep or bears. The fact that he’s a sapient being just seems to go completely over their heads. This is more of an issue with Garrus than with any of the other alien LIs too, because he’s the least humanoid-looking. Liara is, to all intents and purposes, a blue human with tentacle-hair. Tali’s figure looks very human, barring the legs and the 3-digits, and the most popular fanart I've seen of her face is very humanoid as well. Same for Thane: he’s got a perfectly toned humanoid body, he even has some pretty yummy lips. The developers even specifically stated that he was designed to be attractive to the ladies (and possibly even the fellas). None of that with Garrus, so it’s automatically: “eww, you wanna do it with a dinosaur!” 
 

Tootles FTW wrote…
 
He seems a perfectly healthy young man to me with a good head on his shoulders and a very agreeable personality, so I would find it more surprising if he hasn't seen his fair share o' the ladies.

 
While I agree with this, I don’t actually think that Garrus has had serious relationships before. Like Dr Michel says, he’s too busy pursuing his ideals of justice. But short flings? Sure. I can perfectly well see him having short-term involvements like with the recon scout. I just don’t think he’s been in a committed relationship before.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 06 juillet 2010 - 10:26 .

[Jackalope]

[Quoth the wiki

teh wiki sez...
As a point of interest, the turian term 'barefaced'
refers to one who is beguiling or not to be trusted. (It should be noted
that Saren Arterius and Warden Kuril do not bear any facial markings).
It is also a slang term for politicians.

An enlightened race if you ask me.

[Tootles FTW]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
While I agree with this, I don’t actually think that Garrus has had serious relationships before. Like Dr Michel says, he’s too busy pursuing his ideals of justice. But short flings? Sure. I can perfectly well see him having short-term involvements like with the recon scout. I just don’t think he’s been in a committed relationship before.

The term fling, to me, is basically equivalent to a one-night stand and thus does not equate a relationship. 

I think that as a teenager and into his young adulthood Garrus most likely had girlfriends, but I can agree in that it's entirely likely that he never fell in love.  I know Garrus is very focused on "THE MISSION!" when we meet him in ME1, but his personality is such that I can't imagine him being awkward around (turian) women, and thus not having some semblance of a normal sex life.  And I say normal because I don't consider his one time diddling of the turian scout as anything but a fling.

I do, however, find it kinda of funny that the popular opinion seems to be that he's either 1) a serial one-night stander, or 2) too focused on his career to partake in a romance. 

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 06 juillet 2010 - 11:04 .

[lovgreno]

I basicaly agree with what Brass Knuckles so eloquently said about five hours ago. Even if I am a straight male I can apreciate Garrus as a person and I can't deny that he is darn handsome. This is a game so I think I can look beyond the limits of my real life (well to a rather limited degree, I admit) gender just as I can read books about both genders.
About Tali: I don't care if I can't see her face or not. I like her anyway. Just as I would still like Garrus if I couldn't see his face. That said I must admit that I sure like their voices, Garrus grin and Talis hips.
Garrus seems like a guy with self confidence and I think he knows that he is handsome. So he may very well have been a flirty ladies turian before. But he have some very strong principes that he doesn't compromise about. If he is committed to Shepard he is committed to only her. He might mention that some female turian looks flexible to tease Shepard though. He can be like that.

Modifié par lovgreno, 06 juillet 2010 - 12:52 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Tootles FTW wrote...

The term fling, to me, is basically equivalent to a one-night stand and thus does not equate a relationship. 

I think that as a teenager and into his young adulthood Garrus most likely had girlfriends, but I can agree in that it's entirely likely that he never fell in love.  I know Garrus is very focused on "THE MISSION!" when we meet him in ME1, but his personality is such that I can't imagine him being awkward around (turian) women, and thus not having some semblance of a normal sex life.

I guess I have a broader perception of the term "fling". I include both one-nighters and short-term relationships in that.

And I say normal because I don't consider his one time diddling of the turian scout as anything but a fling.

I'm not sure what's abnormal about it though. One-nighters are a feature of many young people's lives (and Garrus would probably have been in his late teens, early twenties back then). I know several people in their mid-twenties who have had very few or no serious, long-term relationships, only a series of flings (not only one-nighters but also short relationships) with people they'd picked up in clubs, bars, etc. Simply because they're either not ready or not willing to settle down. And I consider them to have a "normal" sex life. Non-committal, sure, but nothing I'd scratch my head over or be surprised at.

Garrus is young and extremely focussed on his job, so I can perfectly well conceive that he wouldn't have been looking for a serious relationship. But I can see how he'd want a bit of stability after all that crap on Omega.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 06 juillet 2010 - 01:07 .

[Cerrydd]

Pacifien wrote...

Cerrydd wrote...
OH GOD IT'S SIDONIS AGAIN

>:/

Don't get mad at me. I'm suffering from PTSD after spending too much time writing a WOT about him. Now everytime I see his name I run away screaming!

[Sialater]

I'm going to have to disagree about the assessment for Kaidan, too, Brass. He never actively pursues Shep. She's making the moves the entire time. She's just not as ****ty-sounding as she is with Jacob.

[Pacifien]

So what should Garrus have been doing if you hovered around him while he worked on his calibrations? If you hovered around him long enough in ME1, he started working on the Mako. Yesterday I thought he'd start humming or muttering about whether his insurance would cover his medical bills. Today, I imagined him suddenly saying "These calibrations would go faster if this panel wasn't designed for hands with five fingers."

[Jytra]

So, I was putting out a few of our new watches at work yesterday when I noticed something...

[Pacifien]

I've met some guys that have a fascination with watches in a way some women do about shoes. I can imagine Garrus having a large watch collection simply because he can't help himself. Or maybe more like a large omnitool collection.

[silentstephi]

I think watches are probably unnecessary considering omni tools are like PDAs of the future.

I can see him having a lot of misc parts and pieces to repair his weapons with. I'll have to stew on what I'd love to hear him muttering over his shoulder er something though.



Still not awake enough yet. XD

[Jytra]

...I was thinking more a connection between the Armani logo and the insignia on Garrus' armor, but hey, maybe he does have an omnitool collection as well.

[Pacifien]

Aw, such a sterile holographic world in our future. Maybe Garrus keeps a collection of old-style omnitools before they went holographic. Dude has to have a hobby outside of sniper rifles.

[Pacifien]

Jytra wrote...
...I was thinking more a connection between the Armani logo and the insignia on Garrus' armor, but hey, maybe he does have an omnitool collection as well.

I figured that, but this is how my mind worked: Armani - nice suits - Jenson Button - Tag Hauer - watches in general

[HardKorps]

It must be some really nice armour if it's got that logo.



Now I have a mental image of him thinking "I can't afford to repair this" after getting hit by the rocket.