29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

I always wondered...

Why do some think of Garrus as a Space Batman?

Batman doesn't kill. Wouldn't the Punisher better fit Garrus?

I think Garrus fits Garrus the best.

QFT

Oooh!  ToP Garrus!

Modifié par Sialater, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[Liyros]

Pacifien wrote...

But here's a thought experiment for the day: Garrus is one of the top three defenders for the Hold the Line segment, along with Grunt and Zaeed. However, while Grunt and Zaeed will be two of the last to die, Garrus's death falls in the middle of the pack before Samara, Legion, and Thane. Discuss.

/delurks

I think Garrus is the sort to end up sacrificing himself for the sake of protecting others.  Especially when compared to the bloodthirsty Grunt and Zaaed (who isn't into teamwork as much).  He regrets the death of his team from Omega and would probably do all that he could to try and save his current teammates for the suicide mission.  He's the tactician who can see that if he does this action to say, draw attention to himself, that'd give others more time to keep shooting or get the hell away to safety.  Such a gentlemen.

Mind you, I'm just guessing here :]

[Addai]

yukidama wrote...

How could you let Legion die? *wibble*

But yay for the pics. Garrus and Jack are usually my team anyway (though it frequently gets switched up for Garrus/Miranda and Garrus/Legion), but my first playthrough I decided to switch Jack for Grunt at the end for some unknown reason.

It was chancy for my renegade to even work with Legion.  Personally I like him better than Tali.    But, he's just a machine.    So, my thought was that it's better to send him into a dangerous mission.  If I replay it, I might change that, because it's also too risky to let a geth do a job that important.

I take Garrus and Jack a lot.  Or Garrus and Mordin.  I like Grunt, but his setup is almost identical to my PC's in terms of powers, so it's a bit redundant to take him.

Modifié par Addai67, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:59 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Pacifien wrote...
But here's a thought experiment for the day: Garrus is one of the top three defenders for the Hold the Line segment, along with Grunt and Zaeed. However, while Grunt and Zaeed will be two of the last to die, Garrus's death falls in the middle of the pack before Samara, Legion, and Thane. Discuss.

Wasn't the actual reason that Thane was originally intended to have a much higher defender value for the Hold the Line segment, and then they changed it?  Garrus's defender value got bumped up, Thane's defender value was cut, but the order in which the squaddies die wasn't changed.  

Poor Thane--Garrus keeps stealing his thunder 

[Aeowyn]

Does anyone remember what Garrus says in ME1 when he says he's going back to C-Sec? I've renegaded him on my last playthroughs and can't remember.

The reason I'm asking is..well, does anyone feel that a paragon Garrus would make a good Spectre too? Why did you have to renegade him in order to make him apply for Spectre candidacy?

@Sable: Of course. He is Garrus after all

Modifié par Aeowyn, 29 décembre 2010 - 10:13 .

[mellifera]

He always tells me he's going back to C-Sec AND applying for the Spectre stuff. I guess he goes overachiever in my playthroughs? Lol. But in ME2 he only mentions going back to C-Sec.

I think he'd make a good Spectre either way though.

Modifié par yukidama, 29 décembre 2010 - 10:15 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aeowyn wrote...

Does anyone remember what Garrus says in ME1 when he says he's going back to C-Sec? I've renegaded him on my last playthroughs and can't remember.

The reason I'm asking is..well, does anyone feel that a paragon Garrus would make a good Spectre too? Why did you have to renegade him in order to make him apply for Spectre candidacy?

@Sable: Of course. He is Garrus after all

As I recall, Garrus applies for Spectre candidacy whether you Paragon or Renegade him.  The difference is whether he reapplies for C-Sec in the process or not.  The only way he DOESN'T mention becoming a Spectre is if you end up with poor confuzzled Garrus (equal influence Paragon and Renegade) like I did the first time around XD

As for Paragon Garrus...it's an interesting thought.  Paragon Shep certainly still makes for a fantastic Spectre.  But Garrus, I think, in his heart of hearts will always be more of a compassionate Renegade.  Shep can tip him toward being a little more Paragon, but Shep can't change Garrus's fundamental temperament.

[Aeowyn]

Oh, I didn't realise that he applies for Spectre as a paragon as well. Hot damn, I'm paragoning him then. I always felt bad for making him evil lol.

And yes I agree that he will always be a bit of a compassionate renegade. I just thought it was strange how he was going back to C-Sec, even after Sovereign because I had a feeling that he would just come back, get frustrated over the same old red tape and then he'd just be back at square one.



Guess he only mentions C-Sec in ME2 because he never got around to applying for Spectre candidacy. I have a feeling that he left the Citadel a month or two after Normandy's destruction.

[Sialater]

In my fic, I gave Garrus the reasoning for dropping out of Spectre application that without Shepard, it was just hollow.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
But here's a thought experiment for the day: Garrus is one of the top three defenders for the Hold the Line segment, along with Grunt and Zaeed. However, while Grunt and Zaeed will be two of the last to die, Garrus's death falls in the middle of the pack before Samara, Legion, and Thane. Discuss.

Wasn't the actual reason that Thane was originally intended to have a much higher defender value for the Hold the Line segment, and then they changed it?  Garrus's defender value got bumped up, Thane's defender value was cut, but the order in which the squaddies die wasn't changed.  

Poor Thane--Garrus keeps stealing his thunder 

Garrus should have always been the top defender, It's the natural choice. And I have always found Thane useful in combat too. But this is good, because it means that you NEED GARRUS . Especially if you don't have the DLC cuz you don't have xbox live, and Grunt took the crew away, followed by a mysterious, floating rubber duck wearing a Santa hat.  It's still the Christmas period!
As to what Pacifien said, I am assuming this is referring to Garrus' potential death as the tech specialist? Didn't happen with me even on my first playthrough, cuz my turian and I are inseparable! Even if we can't be on our own in the Normandy loveboat with an omnipresent AI and a snarky pilot with brittle bones...
Ahem, back on topic. It is a suicide mission, and if Garrus' death is in the middle of the pack, you don't have DLC and Grunt is taken by 'the bees,' then they call it a suicide mission for a viable reason. Makes it more tactical.
On a less serious note, I recommend that you watch the youtube video of Thane being taken by the seeker swarms. He has a slightly comical reaction (and he is also the one who refers to them as mere 'bees.' If only my drell friend. If only.)

[Sable Rhapsody]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...
Garrus should have always been the top defender, It's the natural choice. And I have always found Thane useful in combat too. But this is good, because it means that you NEED GARRUS . Especially if you don't have the DLC cuz you don't have xbox live, and Grunt took the crew away, followed by a mysterious, floating rubber duck wearing a Santa hat.  It's still the Christmas period!
As to what Pacifien said, I am assuming this is referring to Garrus' potential death as the tech specialist? Didn't happen with me even on my first playthrough, cuz my turian and I are inseparable! Even if we can't be on our own in the Normandy loveboat with an omnipresent AI and a snarky pilot with brittle bones...
Ahem, back on topic. It is a suicide mission, and if Garrus' death is in the middle of the pack, you don't have DLC and Grunt is taken by 'the bees,' then they call it a suicide mission for a viable reason. Makes it more tactical.
On a less serious note, I recommend that you watch the youtube video of Thane being taken by the seeker swarms. He has a slightly comical reaction (and he is also the one who refers to them as mere 'bees.' If only my drell friend. If only.)

You know, I would've preferred if the "Hold the Line" sequence was done more like the battle holding the gates in DA:O, where you take three party members to the Archdemon, leave the rest at Denerim's gates, and appoint one member of your team to coordinate and lead the others.  Appointing a squaddie with tactical expertise (Garrus, Miranda, arguably Mordin), leadership skills (Garrus, Miranda, Jacob), or pure soldiery muscle (Jacob, Grunt, Zaeed) gives the team a boost to their "hold the line" score, and the leading squaddie is the one who radios in to Shep.  This would make keeping fragile characters alive a little easier without having to drag them with Shep.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:30 .

[Brass_Buckles]

Speculation time!



What will your Shepard do in ME3 if Garrus pulls an Alistair?



By which I mean any or all of the following: Dumping Shepard because this interspecies thing can never work, sacrificing himself to save Shepard's hide, ditching the squad because, for instance, she chooses to spare someone he wants dead (Sidonis again, maybe?). And I think someone's mentioned that in some DAO games it's hinted that Alistair cheats, so include that in the list too.



Thus far I don't have a new Shepard who's romanced him. I'm planning it with Sylvia... but I'm not that far yet. I think if he self-sacrifices, she'll blame herself for his death. If he dumps her, there's not much she can do about it. She's my least persuasive Shepard. She might learn to be more charismatic by ME2, but thus far she is very un-persuasive. (It's killing me because I LOVE persuading people...) She'll just be sad. If he ditches the squad, I think she'll call him out for his betrayal, and if he shows further signs of treachery... I'm not sure. Erika the renegon would've shot him, but I haven't remade her yet and Sylvia's a paragade and currently almost completely paragon.



As for cheating... Sylvia would probably understand why. I mean they aren't the same species. But that doesn't mean she'd just sit quietly and accept it. She'd probably have a chat with him about moving on because of his evident notion that she just wasn't good enough, or maybe she just wasn't enough, period. And then she would move on.



FYI I'm hoping none of these scenarios actually happens with Garrus. It was bad enough that you couldn't get a really happy ending with Alistair no matter what you did, unless you were okay with being a mistress or letting him sire Potentially Evil God Baby. (The sleeping with Morrigan thing I didn't mind as much--The Warden knew he'd done it and was the one who told him, but the fact that the ritual's results were unknown creeped me out. And I haven't gotten to play the related DLC yet.)



So what's your take?

[Collider]

I'd probably be more upset with Bioware than Garrus.

[mellifera]

Alistair cheats? Wha? It doesn't sound like something Garrus would do. And he seems to trust Shepard's judgement enough that it'd have to be something REALLY bad for him to up and leave like Alistair did. Like... I dunno, joining the Reapers or sparing Saren in the first game or something. Sidonis is taken care of whether you kill him or don't (he turns himself in to C-Sec if you don't kill him) so I don't really know how much of a role something like that will play in the future, it seems taken care of.

The problem with Alistair was that Alistair needed an heir as the king of a country. I don't necessarily think that Garrus would leave Shepard over anything like that if he was willing to consider having a relationship with Shepard in the first place. I don't especially see him as the type that *needs* to settle down and start a family (and would dump Shepard because she can't give him biological children).

As for sacrificing himself? I can see it. Don't want to, but it's not a stretch.

Modifié par yukidama, 30 décembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[Aeowyn]

Wait, what? Where is it hinted that Alistair cheats?

My main Warden makes sure they get their happy rainbow, Grey Warden riding down the horizon ending and he cheats?! Ehm...



If Garrus decides to break up with Ivy because of the whole interspecies thing. Well, she'd understand, but she would hope that he would be honest with her and that it was something HE really wanted and not something he thought he wanted because of what others would think.



If he decides to sacrifice himself for her she'd hunt his spirit down and beat him up. Okay, if it's to save her life from an immediate threat like e.g. They're both in two separate locations, Shepard is being threatened by something and the only way to save her is for Garrus to lure this thing away and he dies in the process, well then she'd be really upset, but she'd do everything in her power to make sure that his sacrifice wasn't in vain.

If it's crap like with Alistair "I didn't say you had a choice." (thank you TMP for the punch Ali in the face and take the final blow - mod!) Ivy would honestly be pissed off. She doesn't like it when something is decided for her. If there was a choice between her and Garrus she would take the blow, no doubt about it.



As for cheating. Well, the trust would be gone. Like I've said before, one of the main reasons I love this romance is because of their friendship and trust which builds into something more. If Garrus can't be honest with her and decides to cheat instead of actually talking to her, well then he's out of her life.

[Xalena]

I made something for you guys

I hope you like it...

[Aeowyn]

Xalena, that's gorgeous!

[Sialater]

Alistair has to get married if your Warden's the Cancellor. That's kinda cheating.



But, I doubt we'd have to deal with that with Garrus. Garrus is older and far more experienced in all ways than Alistair.

[Sialater]

Xalena wrote...

I made something for you guys

I hope you like it...

That is gorgeous!  And you used a Shep with a bun so I can pretend it's Meghan!

[Brass_Buckles]

Collider wrote...

I'd probably be more upset with Bioware than Garrus.

Yeah but the question was more about what your Shepard would do.

And I also don't put it past Bioware to do this kind of thing.  The ME1 romances are pretty much guaranteed something good if you stay loyal.  No such word on the ME2 romances.

Actually come to think of it, the female Warden really doesn't get anything good in the end unless she romances Leliana.  And while I'm all for same-sex relationships for those who enjoy them, I am not comfortable playing them out myself, so it's not really an option for me.  If I recall correctly I've even heard someone say that Zevran cheats, though he'll stay close by the Warden regardless out of love.  Alistair may or may not be loyal to you depending on your dialogue with him, but unless you're human noble, you can only be his mistress if he's king, or one of you dies if you don't go through the ritual with Morrigan or recruit Loghain (which, if you do it, Alistair will hate you for).  And assuming you are human noble and marry him instead of playing second fiddle to Anora, you still can't have kids and therefore the royal bloodline is going to die out in a few years anyway.

So imagine this kind of scenario for those of us who romanced someone in ME2.  You can't win.  Garrus may even betray Shepard, if he survives and was taken down the renegade path (or conversely the paragon path if he decides he has serious issues with you letting Sidonis go).  Not that I really think he would, but he could.  He could abandon Shepard for any number of reasons, past or ME3 present.  He could cheat on Shepard because he's just not as attracted to her physically as he is to female turians, even though he may genuinely love Shepard emotionally.  (I'd really hate this, because a lot of players would probably be okay with him cheating for this reason, even though they'd frown on a FemShep who had romanced Garrus cheating with a human man for the same reason.)  He could choose to sacrifice himself in a "noble romantic interest sacrificing himself to save his love" sort of way.  I'd hate that too, especially since it felt tremendously sexist in DA:O.  Or he could flip his lid (wouldn't surprise me as much with Garrus as it did with Alistair, though) and abandon you over some end-game choice.

I'm really hoping that nothing like this happens for ANY love interest in Mass Effect 3.  It should be possible to have a happy ending, assuming that the basic ending for ME3 regardless whether you're paragon or renegade is not "and Shepard died."

[mellifera]

Sialater wrote...

Alistair has to get married if your Warden's the Cancellor. That's kinda cheating.

But, I doubt we'd have to deal with that with Garrus. Garrus is older and far more experienced in all ways than Alistair.

I don't really consider that cheating, though. If anything, Alistair would be cheating on this hypothetical wife of his, not on the Warden. He flat out tells you he's going to have to get married and try to have heirs with this woman when he does. Whether or not it is too much for your Warden to bear is a different story, but it's not exactly a secret or something you didn't agree to.

Considering who Garrus is and how he acts I don't think this is going to be an issue either. It doesn't fit his character in my opinion.

[Sialater]

Well, just to play along with Buckles...



Meghan? Wouldn't have any of it. She'd either go back to Kaidan, if he'd have her, or be alone. If it was a noble sacrifice... she'd be very angry. Incandescently so. Blow up the Citadel angry.

[Brass_Buckles]

yukidama wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Alistair has to get married if your Warden's the Cancellor. That's kinda cheating.

But, I doubt we'd have to deal with that with Garrus. Garrus is older and far more experienced in all ways than Alistair.

I don't really consider that cheating, though. If anything, Alistair would be cheating on this hypothetical wife of his, not on the Warden. He flat out tells you he's going to have to get married and try to have heirs with this woman when he does. Whether or not it is too much for your Warden to bear is a different story, but it's not exactly a secret or something you didn't agree to.

Considering who Garrus is and how he acts I don't think this is going to be an issue either. It doesn't fit his character in my opinion.

I may have been thinking of Zevran, but I'm pretty sure I read someone caught in their end card that Alistair was staying away, basically cheating on their Warden.  I don't know what you'd have to say or do to make him do that, though, unless you married him without actually romancing him maybe?  Or broke off the romance before marrying him...  And I don't really have any issue with his sleeping with Morrighan (FemWarden KNOWS about this and has told him to do it, so it's not cheating even though it's winceworthy to coax him into even if you know it will save your lives), but the dark ritual itself always bothers me, because you have no clue what the actual results will be.  But even though Morrigan may mean well, they probably won't be good.

I'm just, as I said, hoping for no catch-22s with Garrus, or any other LI.  I'm reasonably sure that you'll get a happy ending romantically if you pick Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara.  Anyone else... it's up for speculation.  Though since you had to recruit Garrus in ME1 to romance him in ME2, I'd like to think that he and Tali will get a nice ending in ME3 romantically.  Assuming everyone survives, that is.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'd probably be more upset with Bioware than Garrus.

Yeah but the question was more about what your Shepard would do.

And I also don't put it past Bioware to do this kind of thing.  The ME1 romances are pretty much guaranteed something good if you stay loyal.  No such word on the ME2 romances.

I would say, "Don't put it past DAVID GAIDER," not BioWare in general.  Remember that completely different dev teams work on the games, and they're very different in approach.  DA:O is a dark fantasy--the world's supposed to be crapsack, and you're supposed to struggle for your happy ending.  ME is, at its heart, a heroic space opera.

I have a hard time deciding what my Shep would do because I agree with Sia--I have a hard time seeing it happen with Garrus, other than potentially the heroic sacrifice.  Garrus is older, stronger, and more cynical than Alistair.  Shepard is his one remaining friend in the galaxy.  He has no duties other than helping Shep defeat the Reapers, unlike Alistair.  He also has a much stronger sense of himself and what he wants out of life--I doubt anyone could bully him around the way Alistair can get bullied by the Landsmeet, Arl Eamon, even the Warden herself.

But the heroic sacrifice I COULD see happening, and no question about it--that would send my Shep straight off the deep end.  No relationship is perfect, and one of the weaknesses of my Shep's relationship with Garrus is how crazy co-dependent they can be.  She's Garrus's only real friend in the galaxy, and he's the heart of her emotional life.  If Garrus pulls the heroic self-sacrifice crap, her emotional stability is going straight out the window.

[Sialater]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Alistair has to get married if your Warden's the Cancellor. That's kinda cheating.

But, I doubt we'd have to deal with that with Garrus. Garrus is older and far more experienced in all ways than Alistair.

I don't really consider that cheating, though. If anything, Alistair would be cheating on this hypothetical wife of his, not on the Warden. He flat out tells you he's going to have to get married and try to have heirs with this woman when he does. Whether or not it is too much for your Warden to bear is a different story, but it's not exactly a secret or something you didn't agree to.

Considering who Garrus is and how he acts I don't think this is going to be an issue either. It doesn't fit his character in my opinion.

I may have been thinking of Zevran, but I'm pretty sure I read someone caught in their end card that Alistair was staying away, basically cheating on their Warden.  I don't know what you'd have to say or do to make him do that, though, unless you married him without actually romancing him maybe?  Or broke off the romance before marrying him...  And I don't really have any issue with his sleeping with Morrighan (FemWarden KNOWS about this and has told him to do it, so it's not cheating even though it's winceworthy to coax him into even if you know it will save your lives), but the dark ritual itself always bothers me, because you have no clue what the actual results will be.  But even though Morrigan may mean well, they probably won't be good.

I'm just, as I said, hoping for no catch-22s with Garrus, or any other LI.  I'm reasonably sure that you'll get a happy ending romantically if you pick Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara.  Anyone else... it's up for speculation.  Though since you had to recruit Garrus in ME1 to romance him in ME2, I'd like to think that he and Tali will get a nice ending in ME3 romantically.  Assuming everyone survives, that is.

Kaidan's happy ending isn't guaranteed.  But that's a different thread.

Neither Alistair nor Zevran have a "cheating" end card that I know of, but I could go ask in their fan threads.  

I don't see why the ME2 romances would be more likely to have a bad end...