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[Xalena]

I am glad that you like it
here is "bigger version" click
It is nice wallpaper on my desktop
btw I am sure we will have choice to decide how Garrus and Shepard's story will be over. In Mass Effect you really have control in your hands so I guess that  will continue.
I don't believe it gonna end like in Dragon Age. Please God No... that was dark fantasy, I can understand that but Mass Effect is super hero fantasy in space xD I want that after I finish it that I feel good and not like a crap (DA:O)
Bioware don't touch my Garrus so you make bad twists with him in your story that is so uncreative xD!
Ye I mean<_< take the most favourite to everyone char in game and break everyones heart just to make game "good and emotional" whatever...I am tired.
*Slaps Bioware forehead*
that is bad!

[Brass_Buckles]

I can see Garrus cheating in that above mentioned scenario: Garrus already told Shepard that he doesn't have a fetish for humans. While he may be more emotionally involved with Shepard, he could go find a turian to have sex with if he wasn't satisfied physically, assuming his implication that turian women don't like scarred men isn't entirely true. Some people wouldn't be bothered by this kind of cheating, and may even think that due to the "chafing" issue it might be ideal for Garrus to find another partner now and then. In a way, it really isn't as bad as actually falling in love with someone else. But it's still cheating, still a form of betrayal. And also a prime example of a double standard--men are seen as having a "right to sex," but I doubt half as many people would be okay with the idea of a female Shepard staying emotionally loyal to Garrus while sleeping with human men for physical satisfaction.



And I can see Garrus potentially betraying Shepard, even over the Sidonis situation. While I like to think that the paragon path will ultimately help him heal, while the renegade path will make him even more vindictive and possibly dangerous, either path could result in him wigging out later. What if you need to save the life of one of his enemies for questioning, or because you need those skills on your squad? And what if you told Garrus that vengeance was an acceptable path by letting him kill Sidonis? Now you lose that information or that squad member--not that there won't be a way around it, but you just made your job more difficult. Conversely, what if you meet with Sidonis in ME3? What if you need to recruit him? Or what if he backstabs you after you saved him? Will Garrus be able to put the past behind him, or will he be so furious that, even with the galaxy at stake, he can't work with you anymore? Now, I am not so sure I see him actually leaving the squad, but you may lose his loyalty, which might ultimately result in his abandoning Shepard or failing his part in the mission.



But it's pure speculation.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Xalena wrote...
I want that after I finish it that I feel good and not like a crap (DA:O)
Bioware don't touch my Garrus so you make bad twists with him in your story that is so uncreative xD!
Ye I mean<_< take the most favourite to everyone char in game and break everyones heart just to make game "good and emotional" whatever...I am tired.
*Slaps Bioware forehead*
that is bad!

Hmm...I sense someone who got burned by Alistair.  Am I correct? 

I'm all well and good with tragedy--what I am not well-and-good with is tragedy that I the player have no control over.  You have to draw a balance between tragedy and player agency.  Punishing a player when they had no idea what they were getting into is not cool.  It IS possible to get a happy ending in DA:O.  It is equally possible to get an absolutely crapsack ending.  But the game itself warns you when crap is about to go down--with Morrigan and with Alistair, who undoubtedly have the greatest tragedy potential.  And if the game warns you and you go plunging full steam ahead, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Same thing applies for ME.  First of all, I doubt tragedy will strike quite as hard with ME3, simply because that's not the tenor of the game or the preference of the dev team.  They don't live on our tears the way David Gaider does   For example, I'm more-or-less ok with it if Thane dies in ME3.  I don't want it to happen, but the game did warn us it's a possibility.  But I'll be less ok with Garrus angst because his romance is a) refreshingly free of angst and there's no rhyme or reason to it other than angst for angst's sake, which I hate.  One of Garrus's defining traits has been his immense respect for and loyalty to Shepard.  I don't think I've ever seen a character so devoted in any video game.  Except maybe Minsc and Boo   He's literally the very last person in the galaxy I could ever see betraying Shep in any sense, romantic or mission-wise.

[mellifera]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
 I'll be less ok with Garrus angst because his romance is a) refreshingly free of angst and there's no rhyme or reason to it other than angst for angst's sake, which I hate.  One of Garrus's defining traits has been his immense respect for and loyalty to Shepard.  I don't think I've ever seen a character so devoted in any video game.  Except maybe Minsc and Boo   He's literally the very last person in the galaxy I could ever see betraying Shep in any sense, romantic or mission-wise.

This, basically.

[Alphia]

Garrus betray Shepard? Impossible I say!

[Addai]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I may have been thinking of Zevran, but I'm pretty sure I read someone caught in their end card that Alistair was staying away, basically cheating on their Warden.

Nothing like that with either of them, unless you consider Alistair being called away on GW business "cheating".  He does go to Weisshaupt in some of the epilogues.  Zevran has to go to Antiva to deal with the Crows.  Both of these talk about wanting to be back with their lover, so it's not a case of cheating.

I could see Garrus feeling some duty of his is more important than personal affairs, too.  He and Shepard both, really.  If the galaxy needs them to be apart, they'd do what they had to do.  Other than that, I guess it's in how you play your Shepard.  Since the suicide mission date is basically a hookup, it doesn't need to be construed as more.

Punk endings are bad, but a little drama is good ultimately.  I like the wrenching-ness of the DR and the Landsmeet decision.  It ends up being more romantic to me than if it were just hearts and flowers.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Addai67 wrote...

Punk endings are bad, but a little drama is good ultimately.  I like the wrenching-ness of the DR and the Landsmeet decision.  It ends up being more romantic to me than if it were just hearts and flowers.

IMO drama is like spice.  Too much of it, and I want to gag.  I think DA:O had just the right amount, and better yet, the amount of drama was dependent on your PC's decisions.  If you chose to play a noble, self-sacrificing non-Cousland PC who put Alistair on the throne and didn't take the DR...well, frankly, that's your own fault when it goes to hell.  If you chose to play a character willing to Earn Your Happy Ending, that's what you got.

Frankly, I think Shep's got bigger fish to fry come ME3.  There'll be enough crapsack and enough tension with, you know, the REAPERS coming to town without squaddie drama adding to it.

[AlphaDormante]

Honestly, I can't imagine Garrus betraying any Shepard. Paragoned or Renegaded, no matter the circumstance, unless Shepard dressed up in a cheerleader outfit and started waving a banner around that said "WELCOME TO THE GALAXY REAPERS~", it just doesn't make sense to me.

Sure, he may not see eye-to-eye with some of the many possible outcomes we might see. My MainShep Renegaded him, but is herself a Paragade and the decisions she made in his missions are the same that she would have made in any other. Would Garrus be pissed if she suddenly approached a subject matter with an Paragopinion that didn't jibe with his own? Maybe.

But Shepard is his only friend left in the galaxy. For some, his only friend AND his lover. And I really don't think he'd jeapordize that. Having constantly matching outlooks doesn't equal a healthy relationship. Friends and lovers fight, they don't have to agree with everything the other does. And my MainShep's not asking Garrus to be happy that she'll spare this person, or kill that one. She only wants him to trust that she's doing it with the same overarching goal that they both have: stopping the Reapers.

That's why she let him kill Sidonis. She didn't like it, she tried to talk him out of it, and when it was over, she was upest with Garrus and made him assure her that he was done with it. But Sidonis committed a wrong, and of the two of them, she felt that Garrus was the one who deserved to make the decision and trusted him to make the one he believed was right.

That being said, if he doesn't have the decency to trust her with her decisions in return, he's sleeping on the couch. :innocent:

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 30 décembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[Evelinessa]

I'm hoping that none of that happens with Garrus in ME3, especially if we can't control it. I would be heartbroken if he did cheat or if he sacrificed himself for me, or dumping me because of the whole interspecies thing. I don't see Garrus ever betraying Shep though. I'm hoping that they give all the LIs a good ending. I would be a little angry with BioWare and then I wouldn't think too highly of the romance anymore. Do you really think they might give better endings to the ME1 LI's?

I think on my first playthrough of DA:O I got a good ending with Alistair if I'm remembering correctly. I didn't make him king(I did originally but reloaded when he dumped me)and made sure to do the ritual, and I think during the ending it said we stayed together.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
But here's a thought experiment for the day: Garrus is one of the top three defenders for the Hold the Line segment, along with Grunt and Zaeed. However, while Grunt and Zaeed will be two of the last to die, Garrus's death falls in the middle of the pack before Samara, Legion, and Thane. Discuss.

Wasn't the actual reason that Thane was originally intended to have a much higher defender value for the Hold the Line segment, and then they changed it?  Garrus's defender value got bumped up, Thane's defender value was cut, but the order in which the squaddies die wasn't changed.  

Poor Thane--Garrus keeps stealing his thunder 

This is what I read too.


 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Evelinessa wrote...

I'm hoping that none of that happens with Garrus in ME3, especially if we can't control it. I would be heartbroken if he did cheat or if he sacrificed himself for me, or dumping me because of the whole interspecies thing. I don't see Garrus ever betraying Shep though. I'm hoping that they give all the LIs a good ending. I would be a little angry with BioWare and then I wouldn't think too highly of the romance anymore. Do you really think they might give better endings to the ME1 LI's?

No.  I firmly believe the speculation about discrepencies between the LIs come ME3 is largely a result of a) paranoia and forum wankery.  I don't think Ash or Kaidan acted particularly out of character on Horizon (seriously, how well would YOU take it if the person you loved turned up after two years dead, working with the people you believe to be the enemy), and I think the actions of the ME1 LIs were understandable if not necessarily excusable in the context of ME2.  

The purpose of Horizon was to create a situation that could justify either staying with Ash/Kaidan OR moving on.  Same thing applies to the situation with Liara pre-LoTSB.  I don't think BioWare is out to "get" anyone, and if they are pulling out all the stops for ME3, we'll all be just fine regardless of who we romanced.

[mellifera]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...

I'm hoping that none of that happens with Garrus in ME3, especially if we can't control it. I would be heartbroken if he did cheat or if he sacrificed himself for me, or dumping me because of the whole interspecies thing. I don't see Garrus ever betraying Shep though. I'm hoping that they give all the LIs a good ending. I would be a little angry with BioWare and then I wouldn't think too highly of the romance anymore. Do you really think they might give better endings to the ME1 LI's?

No.  I firmly believe the speculation about discrepencies between the LIs come ME3 is largely a result of a) paranoia and forum wankery.  I don't think Ash or Kaidan acted particularly out of character on Horizon (seriously, how well would YOU take it if the person you loved turned up after two years dead, working with the people you believe to be the enemy), and I think the actions of the ME1 LIs were understandable if not necessarily excusable in the context of ME2.  

The purpose of Horizon was to create a situation that could justify either staying with Ash/Kaidan OR moving on.  Same thing applies to the situation with Liara pre-LoTSB.  I don't think BioWare is out to "get" anyone, and if they are pulling out all the stops for ME3, we'll all be just fine regardless of who we romanced.

THIS. So much. It's like people need to make themselves feel better about whatever, so they start wanking over XYZ character not returning because of reason ABC that doesn't necessarily mean anything just to make fans of those characters annoyed and paranoid. I really don't get it at all. It seems like it's a crime to want them all back. No one has to like a character, but why the need to be a complete and utter douchebag about it?

Whatever. Here's a Garrus.

Modifié par yukidama, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:27 .

[Tyrium]

yukidama wrote...

Whatever. Here's a Garrus.

That's the spirit!

[Xalena]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Hmm...I sense someone who got burned by Alistair.  Am I correct? 

------------------------------
-( a little off topic sorry) haha xD yea I got and who didn't really?...dunno what was worse watching him diening or make him to sleep with Morrigan to save our lives lol. I really never made him a king. I choosed ending with my mage and him un-kinged building the Grey Wardens but worse thing was Awakening and "contuining" romance tbh. We who romanced Alistair and went this route as I mentioned above you dont get his cameo neither letter and Zevran and Leliana sent you a letter. Why they didn't write one for Alistair? I don't get it... I still ask myself. . Can someone asnwer me on this please?
------------------------------

-( on topic) I would really really hate this happens with Garrus that our romance doesn't continue in Me3.
But don't need to worry for anything. There is no David Gaider in Mass Effect . No offense to the writer. I don't say that he is bad. But that is just not my type. It is not actually his fault. I mean... am very emotional person in real life and easily get upset around that stuff even if it is not real. I am a little weirdo .
Mass Effect really makes me to feel good. It maybe upsets Kaidan/Ashley/Liara fans but in the end Liara fans still feels good after dlc, so will A/K and more in Me3. I am sure in that. And so we'll feel good about Garrus aswell. I can't see why we shouldn't. We can see many interspecies relationships in Me2 (omg krogan and asari??? xD). You can even see alot of turians and female humans sitting together. If they can then My Shep and Garrus can aswell. If they can kick reapers they can kick with their romance aswell. Garrus is not type who gives up. He is really dedicated man, as in his job saving the world and make it utopia what is actually not very possible but he will be in romance aswell. Shepard is his first true love and our Sheps should be very happy about it.

I am sure that Brandon Keener would refuse to voice act that Boware decide to make something bad with Garrus xD right right? hehe. Maybe Garrus at first should be dead in Me2 after trying to recruit him and then Brandom said. I reffuuuuseeee!
I actually would be worried that they let Garrus to stay barefaced lol then I would be paranoid lol. Good that they splashed some color on his face in the end xD. I am much calmer. In some old screenies before game was released he looks like some totally renegade barefaced merc.

-(too long to read) *looks at the magic ball* nah I can't see that something bad will happen between Garrus and Shep if you don't want it. There could be some little turbulences in relationship but that is it. I am totally positive about his role and love in Me3.
I can see him flirting abit with female turian but not cheat Shep with her. That is it.
ddd wall of text...

Modifié par Xalena, 30 décembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[Aeowyn]

In regards to Yuki's post, anyone feel that Garrus gets crap because he was in the second game as a squad member when other LI's weren't?

[Collider]

Aeowyn wrote...
In regards to Yuki's post, anyone feel that Garrus gets crap because he was in the second game as a squad member when other LI's weren't?

Definitely. I've seen it quite a few times.

[Sialater]

Collider wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
In regards to Yuki's post, anyone feel that Garrus gets crap because he was in the second game as a squad member when other LI's weren't?

Definitely. I've seen it quite a few times.

Yes, it has happened.

[Pacifien]

You ever think you sacrifice a good story for love of the character?

I mean, I can understand a nice ending for your favorite character, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a good story. Satisfying maybe, but someone looking upon the story from a general perspective might feel it was cheap.

Of course, most people play games for that satisfying feeling, I imagine. Fanfic probably thrives on it.

I don't know, I used to like Garrus quite a bit, but he's not the story. Not to me. It's difficult to read through a thread where he is deemed critical to the story to the point of central focus. Well, the solution would be not to read the thread, but that takes away from the fact that I do like Garrus. I wouldn't mind discussing him. But I would discuss him as one would Wrex or Mordin. No one treats them as critical to have by Shepard's side, simply for them to be Shepard's allies. I feel this is just as true with Garrus.

His character arc makes the most sense to me if it breaks free from Shepard's command truly, a leader in his own right. But how do you give that impression while still maintaining a romance for those who want it? The solution would be two very different character paths, I imagine.

Modifié par Pacifien, 30 décembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Sialater]

The problem with Mass Effect is that the characters have MADE the story. It's not that original a plotline, it's just done better than a lot of its predecessors.



Will I be upset if I don't get the happy ending with either Garrus or Kaidan for my Sheps? Probably. But will I refuse to buy it because of that.... no.

[Pacifien]

I use Wrex as an example here. Many Wrex fans were upset that he wasn't a squadmate choice for Mass Effect 2. However, many of them were also satisfied with where his character arc progressed even if it kept him out of Shepard's squad. It's a good story, one that he cannot have if he had joined up with Shepard's squad.

Or imagine writing the villains of a story, but you fall so in love with writing these characters, you don't want to see their ends. Even if the story demands it.

It's really just a thought exercise, one that pertains to more than just my opinion on Garrus and his role in the trilogy, but one I happen to think about quite often when I do start thinking about Garrus. I know that characters help make the story. I wonder about how people's own preferences for certain characters, good or ill, skew that story as it progresses, however.

Modifié par Pacifien, 30 décembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Sialater]

Heh, with Wrex as an example, I'll go one further and use the VS. THAT character arc sucked and didn't seem to do anything but grant them plot armor.



Garrus going off on his own won't upset me. After all, Shepard has to live with Liara being the SB, now, which is also a necessary character arc like Wrex. But, just because both Liara and Wrex are doing their own things, doesn't mean their relationship (friendship or romance), is over. Garrus leading a turian colonial army or whatever, would be a plot necessary thing, but it doesn't mean he and Meghan Shepard need to break up.



Wow, I hope that made sense.

[Collider]

Wrex wasn't a love interest.



I'd be okay (or even pleasantly surprised) if they gave Garrus sufficient reason to go off on his own and did it well. And if they still gave him enough content - as much or around the same as the other love interests.

[Aeowyn]

I agree with both of you. I'd be upset if he wasn't a squaddie but if he is leading a turian army or gathering intel for Shepard and they made his plot arc well, I'd still be happy.

I'd hate it if they just gave a crappy excuse for him not being in the squad.

[Pacifien]

Actually, I entirely agree that a character whose path diverges from Shepard doesn't mean the end of any friendship or romance they may have, but there's always that sense of doom if I were to suggest that a character is going to participate in the story from a support role. Which is actually not a suggestion I'm putting forth for Garrus at this time. My concern with Garrus is that his writing take a turn where he is a love interest first and ally second, but that is something I put in the BioWare writers' hands.

[Sialater]

Aeowyn wrote...

I agree with both of you. I'd be upset if he wasn't a squaddie but if he is leading a turian army or gathering intel for Shepard and they made his plot arc well, I'd still be happy.
I'd hate it if they just gave a crappy excuse for him not being in the squad.

Like with the VS?  :innocent:

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
Wrex wasn't a love interest.

Ah, see, that's just bull**** and highlights my fears right there.