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[Sable Rhapsody]

Alienmorph wrote...

Ultimate Victory - Galaxy safe and earth, Shepard retired with his/her LI (eventually choice of that too).
Ultimate Sacrifice - Galaxy safe, but earth destroyed, Shepard KIA.
Rise from the Ashes - Galaxy devastated but safe, Shepard heroically died to stop Reapers.

I was just drifting a bit with my imagination ... but having a last cameo of Shep in ME4 would be so nice, besides it's so unlikely to happen. But we're going too far, for now.

Kinda reminds me of the default Origins endings available for DA2.  I like the idea.  And honestly, by the end of ME3, Shep will be so awesome s/he will have taken on a god-like legend.  It'd be weird to be Shep's kid, adopted or otherwise--how do you live up to your parent who saved the freaking galaxy?

[Evelinessa]

Aeowyn wrote...

In regards to Yuki's post, anyone feel that Garrus gets crap because he was in the second game as a squad member when other LI's weren't?

I noticed in certain threads about "who is your least favorite character" or "which character would you kill off" most of the people who say Garrus are Liara and Ashley/Kaidan fans. And I noticed that most Liara fans are Ashley/Kaidan fans and vice versa. So I can see that maybe some of them are upset that the ME1 LI's were left out of ME2 but Garrus got to come back.

Brass_Buckles wrote...

I think whether or not it's just a hookup is up to your perspective, and your Shepard's.  Personally, I don't see it that way, and definitely not on Garrus's part.  Try cheating on someone else with Garrus, and choose Garrus.  He wouldn't be so glad and flattered, or talk about love triangles, if he didn't feel something more than friendly with Shepard.  As the romance progresses, he gets more eager to see it through.  He tells Shepard he wants "a few moments that are just for us."  That sounds like more than friends to me, even though he seems to be trying to say it in a casual/less noticeable way.  Maybe because he doesn't think Shepard feels the same way (and he may be right, depending on the player).  If you break up with him, you have to tell him you just want to be friends, nothing more.  That implies you're more-than-friends with him.  In the last scene, he's going out of his way to make it more date-like (however awkwardly), maybe because he wants to make Shepard more comfortable.  Then in those last moments he tells you he wants something to go right.  This thing with Shepard is as important to him as C-Sec and Sidonis.  To my mind, that's as good as telling Shep he's falling in love with her.  He probably hasn't quite yet, but he's getting there.  And I reiterate my point that I've made before, that getting sex right on one occasion probably wouldn't mean that much to him.  But in the context of a relationship, taking a huge risk even trying this because he wants to know that they can be together as more than friends, what he says makes more sense.  And of course, sending him away makes him sad-faced and disappointed.  You can argue it doesn't mean that much to Garrus, but I don't buy it.  As for Shepard... again, it depends on the Shepard and the player.  Some Shepards would have high-risk sex (you could die doing this, you know...) with Garrus without caring.  Some wouldn't.  And some wouldn't entertain even the idea of it and would probably wince at his story about the recon scout.

I love reading this kind of stuff. Sometimes I get a little doubtful of the relationship but reading this stuff makes it all better. Thank you .

Also, don't forget what Kasumi says about the relationship. I can't really remember the exact quote but it's something along the lines of "Garrus really likes you, I think you should go for it. A lot of people want to see you two together". That made me smile when I heard it .

And hey.  After Shepard's story, maybe they'll pull a DA:O type thing, and the next game lets us choose species, gender, and origin.  (Female turian biotic anyone?)

I would love this. I'm hoping this will happen. Turians will definately be the first race I pick.



For ME3 I really want Garrus to be a squadmate but if he isn't I will still buy the game but I won't be very motivated to play it. I'm hoping that he will be at least a temporary squadmate and we can still visit him after every mission and get more dialogue(romance and friend).

If he does join the squad though, I'm hoping that there will be a section during the final mission where I can send him to lead something. During the epilogue I want him to become a spectre but I really don't want him to leave Shepard. I want us to be spectres together. I don't want him to leave the relationship. I'm hoping for a really good ending. I want him to reach his dreams but I want us to stay together.

I really hope we're not forced to sacrifice our Shepards or our LI though. I want many different endings. Some good ones and some bad ones.

Story is really important for me but so is characters. I think that there is a good balance of that in ME but I would be willing to sacrifice some story for favorite characters, but not too much because I want to still have a good story.

Here's a question..

How would you like to see Garrus' morality develop in ME3 depending if you paragoned or renegaded him, or maybe both? I know in ME2 we only got a couple lines difference but say in ME3 we see a really big consequence depending on what we picked. What would you like to happen?

I'm not sure how to answer this myself but I will in a little bit.

[Kim Shepard]

I think it'll be the same as DA2, start a game with default choices or import the choices of your Warden even though the Warden won't be shown. They could do that with Mass Effect. An option to choose a few things before the game starts, like you suggested, would be nice for new players or anyone who doesn't want to replay the trilogy just to start with the right choices. Kind of like what the PS3 version of ME2 is getting, only it should be included in the game instead of DLC.

@Sable: I doubt we'll get to officially play Shepard's kid. Shepard's future can probably go in so many different directions, and it wouldn't fit everyone's interpretation of Shepard. We can always play characters that we pretend are Shepard's kids though. (You didn't really think my Calix, the Saren romance and resurrection would be possible anywhere outside of the imagination, did you? xD I wish.)

[Alienmorph]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

Ultimate Victory - Galaxy safe and earth, Shepard retired with his/her LI (eventually choice of that too).
Ultimate Sacrifice - Galaxy safe, but earth destroyed, Shepard KIA.
Rise from the Ashes - Galaxy devastated but safe, Shepard heroically died to stop Reapers.

I was just drifting a bit with my imagination ... but having a last cameo of Shep in ME4 would be so nice, besides it's so unlikely to happen. But we're going too far, for now.

Kinda reminds me of the default Origins endings available for DA2.  I like the idea.  And honestly, by the end of ME3, Shep will be so awesome s/he will have taken on a god-like legend.  It'd be weird to be Shep's kid, adopted or otherwise--how do you live up to your parent who saved the freaking galaxy?

I don't know much DA, but surely reduce the possible background to 3-4 options at the beginning of a new storyline it's the most plausible thing.

Also, there are some fanfics about possible Shep's sons... some are quite funny and features also the sons of other ME's characters. In one the adopted daughter of Shep and Tali flirted with Jacob and Kasumi's son, fought against the artificial son of Miranda (with artificial I mean he was created in the same way of his mother)... and off course hugged often and with pleasure her dear uncle Garrus ^^

[Sable Rhapsody]

Evelinessa wrote...

How would you like to see Garrus' morality develop in ME3 depending if you paragoned or renegaded him, or maybe both? I know in ME2 we only got a couple lines difference but say in ME3 we see a really big consequence depending on what we picked. What would you like to happen?

I'm not sure how to answer this myself but I will in a little bit.

Hmm...I know I'd like to see a bigger difference between consistently Paragoned and consistently Renegaded Garrus.  I still think that Garrus in his heart with always be a Renegon, but Shep can push him...let's say 20% in either direction from that?  

What I'm wondering is what'll happen if you Paragoned him in ME2 but Renegaded him in ME1, or the other way around.  That's what ended up happening in the canon import for my Shep.  She spared Saleon, but agreed with all of Garrus's sentiments about killing Saren enough to Renegade him.  She then Paragoned the Sidonis decision in ME2.  Poor guy has to be very confused.  Of course, in my head it all makes sense--my Shep believes that you do not kill when it's not necessary, and when it is, you kill without mercy or remorse.  But within the Paragon/Renegade system, it's kind of a muddle.

Kim Shepard wrote...
@Sable: I doubt we'll get to officially play Shepard's kid. Shepard's future can probably go in so many different directions, and it wouldn't fit everyone's interpretation of Shepard. We can always play characters that we pretend are Shepard's kids though. (You didn't really think my Calix, the Saren romance and resurrection would be possible anywhere outside of the imagination, did you? xD I wish.)

Your poor MainShep.  Her life in the game isn't exactly the most fantastic.  There's a Saren request just popped up on the kink meme that I'm thinking of filling in honor of you 

My Shep might EVENTUALLY adopt kids and get married, but we're talking maybe a decade and a half down the line at minimum.  She's too busy being a badass to settle down right away.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 30 décembre 2010 - 11:29 .

[Kim Shepard]

MainShep's life in my version of her story isn't so great either, but at least she has a lot more family, friends, and ends up with the guy she wants in the end. xD Hey, Saren needed a reason to keep coming around when she was a kid, or it would have been out of character.

Saren fanfic? But I don't read anything NSFW or on any other websites than fanfiction.net (or BSN, obviously). ):

[Sable Rhapsody]

Here's the request:

Don't judge me, but...



What if Saren neither was killed nor did shoot himself at the final fight at the Citadel, but instead was persuaded by Shepard to join them?



Would really, really love to see a damaged Saren who has reason to doubt every decision he's made during the last few years and who's aware of how fragile his hold on sanity is and a Shepard who's maybe offering comfort, or else securing his loyalty in a rather direct way



Please, anon, I'd be forever grateful for a fill on this one.

I don't think I'd approach this one with sex, and if I did, it'd be pretty tame. And if I DO end up breaking down and filling it (first I'd have to think of a plausible AU way to tackle it), I can always send you an excised version.

[Kim Shepard]

That would be great. Thanks.

Too bad there was no way to persuade Saren and keep him alive. Unfortunately, the only way to drop Sovereign's shields was by destroying the body it assumed direct control of. I had an idea that it's possible to "hack" a Reaper to drop its shields, but when I planned it out, it was for a character who specifically tried to use the indoctrination process to "think like a Reaper" and see into their collective minds. I doubt that would have been possible with Saren's level of knowledge about the Reapers and the fact that he didn't even know that he was being controlled... but I don't even know if it's possible at all. Imagination doesn't always have to be, like MainShep convincing TIM to resurrect Saren. xD

[Evelinessa]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Hmm...I know I'd like to see a bigger difference between consistently Paragoned and consistently Renegaded Garrus.  I still think that Garrus in his heart with always be a Renegon, but Shep can push him...let's say 20% in either direction from that?  

What I'm wondering is what'll happen if you Paragoned him in ME2 but Renegaded him in ME1, or the other way around.  That's what ended up happening in the canon import for my Shep.  She spared Saleon, but agreed with all of Garrus's sentiments about killing Saren enough to Renegade him.  She then Paragoned the Sidonis decision in ME2.  Poor guy has to be very confused.  Of course, in my head it all makes sense--my Shep believes that you do not kill when it's not necessary, and when it is, you kill without mercy or remorse.  But within the Paragon/Renegade system, it's kind of a muddle.

[

Yeah, I like that. I want him to stay mostly a Renegon. I don't want to change his personality. I really hope they go much deeper with this in ME3 then they did with ME2.

That's sort of what happened with my first character.. In ME1 She agreed with everything Garrus had to say but she tried to save Saleon. Afterwards he still was pushed the renegade way. In ME2 She let him kill Sidonis(but this was only because I thought I could lose his loyalty).

My current ManShep is planning on confusing Garrus. He is a renegon and he is going to agree with everything Garrus says and will kill Saleon without a second thought. But in ME2 he will spare Harkin and Sidonis(I heard you get confused dialogue). I want to see what happens in ME3 if I do this.

I haven't made my canon Shepard yet but originally she was going to Paragon Garrus all the way but now I'm not so sure. I think that I'm definitely going to spare Sidonis in that playthrough(I don't like the way Garrus is going and I think sparing Sidonis might help him). That Shepard will be a Garrus romance one though and she will be a full paragon or slightly Paragade.

I would love for Garrus to put different input on a mission depending if you went Paragon or Renegade with him. And maybe if you had him kill Saleon(without trying to bring him in) and Sidonis he becomes even more vengeful and has a strong opinion about it in ME3 if we have a certain situation like that but If you saved them(or tried with Saleon) then it would be the opposite. Well I guess that's basically Paragon or Renegade anyway. I just hope we get more of difference in ME3 then we did in ME2. It might be nice if Garrus makes his own decisions but that has the potential to be bad like if he sacrifices himself or he stops me from achieving a goal, so that might not be a good idea.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Evelinessa wrote...
I just hope we get more of difference in ME3 then we did in ME2. It might be nice if Garrus makes his own decisions but that has the potential to be bad like if he sacrifices himself or he stops me from achieving a goal, so that might not be a good idea.

I posted this in the Miranda thread, but it bears summarizing here.  There's a fine line between challenging the PC and undermining the PLAYER.  Obsidian party members are often an example of undermining the player--they hate each other, second-guess the protagonist, and generally get in the way.  It's FRUSTRATING.  Sten from DA:O is a party member who challenges the PC, but never really gets in the way of what the PLAYER wants.  That's kinda cool.  Characters like Sten are what get your PC to think and grow as a person.

I think what you're concerned about is Garrus causing trouble for the player, but thus far, none of the ME characters have really done that.  Wrex, arguably, but you have to f-up pretty bad to get him killed on Virmire.  Instead, the more vocal characters in ME--Wrex, possibly Mordin, Samara, and Miranda--tend more toward the "challenging the PC" mode than the "messing with the player" mode.  And that's something that I think could give Garrus a very interesting direction to grow in ME3.

[Brass_Buckles]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
I just hope we get more of difference in ME3 then we did in ME2. It might be nice if Garrus makes his own decisions but that has the potential to be bad like if he sacrifices himself or he stops me from achieving a goal, so that might not be a good idea.

I posted this in the Miranda thread, but it bears summarizing here.  There's a fine line between challenging the PC and undermining the PLAYER.  Obsidian party members are often an example of undermining the player--they hate each other, second-guess the protagonist, and generally get in the way.  It's FRUSTRATING.  Sten from DA:O is a party member who challenges the PC, but never really gets in the way of what the PLAYER wants.  That's kinda cool.  Characters like Sten are what get your PC to think and grow as a person.

I think what you're concerned about is Garrus causing trouble for the player, but thus far, none of the ME characters have really done that.  Wrex, arguably, but you have to f-up pretty bad to get him killed on Virmire.  Instead, the more vocal characters in ME--Wrex, possibly Mordin, Samara, and Miranda--tend more toward the "challenging the PC" mode than the "messing with the player" mode.  And that's something that I think could give Garrus a very interesting direction to grow in ME3.

In a way, Garrus also challenges the player.  There have been all  too many debates on whether it's better to kill Sidonis or let him go, and what the repercussions will be for Garrus.  But I'm surprised no one's ever really thought about the repercussions for Shepard.  Sure, there won't be consequences if you're a Spectre; you're allowed to break the rules.  But what are you really doing to yourself by letting your best friend kill the man who betrayed him?  And what are you doing to yourself if you stop him?  It bears thinking about, especially considering some people's reasons for killing or stopping him.  Some people think he's despicable but not worth the bullets.  I think he's genuinely repentant and my more paragon Shepards agree, thus they spare him and prevent Garrus from killing unnecessarily in cold blood.  But my more renegade Shepards see him as a useless coward who is more likely to cause trouble in the future than to help in any way, and plus he betrayed a friend.  I have yet to play someone who doesn't recruit Garrus, but I will do so when I play Xenophobic MaleShep, who hasn't been made yet.

[Aeowyn]

I'm more curious in knowing why he didn't just tell Garrus that he had been threatened. Obviously he had time to tell him about the fake meeting place. I'm sure Garrus would be able to protect him and the squad. But meh.

[Brass_Buckles]

Aeowyn wrote...

I'm more curious in knowing why he didn't just tell Garrus that he had been threatened. Obviously he had time to tell him about the fake meeting place. I'm sure Garrus would be able to protect him and the squad. But meh.

I was under the impression he didn't get to go back.  I don't remember the precise dialogue, but it sounds like he was being held against his wil.  And even if he wasn't, he'd been threatened with his life if he went back to Garrus to warn him.  I don't think it was a matter of him going back and pretending to help in the fight, or we'd have seen him there at the base when we rescued Garrus.

We also don't know if it were just Sidonis's life being threatened.  Does Sidonis have a family?  And if you let Garrus kill him, who is missing Sidonis now?  (A depressing thought that just occurred to me.  Picture Sidonis's little son and daughter asking their mom where Daddy is.  Sad.)  Of course he'd had to go into hiding, but even then his family may have known something, assuming he has one.  But my point is it may not have just been Sidonis who was threatened, even though that's all he tells Shepard about.  You're more likely to betray your friend if you think your kids are going to be in danger if you don't.

Edited to add:  As for telling Garrus about the meeting place, it's possible this was done via a comm unit, at gunpoint.

Really there's just way too much we don't know about the situation.

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 31 décembre 2010 - 01:38 .

[Kim Shepard]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

But what are you really doing to yourself by letting your best friend kill the man who betrayed him?

Well, in the opinion of my Shepards... they're doing exactly what they would want a friend to do for them.

Garrus' loyalty mission is one of the most debated, so it's kind of funny that it's one I never had any trouble with. The views that my Shepards have about this sort of thing are black and white. The ones I have trouble figuring out what they would decide are situations like the genophage and rewriting or destroying the geth - stuff that many of them wouldn't already have strong opinions about. They weren't there during the war with the krogan and don't know much about the geth, but revenge and betrayal are very familiar concepts.

One of my Shepards believes that if people like Sidonis have families and can't deal with the possibility that they'll be threatened, or would actually believe the bad guy won't kill their families just because they do what he wants, then they shouldn't join up with a group like Garrus'. In his eyes, Sidonis made the choice to join without being able to deal with the consequences. Obviously, he shows no pity.

[Brass_Buckles]

Hmmm, entirely off topic, but I just read the USA Today comic (Inquisition I think)? And it seems to retcon what we knew about what happened to Pallin. We were told he died in the attack on the Citadel. But the comic says that Captain Bailey did the deed, while being manipulated by Udina (who probably wanted Pallin dead regardless).



Sadly the whole thing is pretty poorly written, in my opinion.



A side note, too, but in all of the comics, turians do have front teeth. If this were a mistake, I'm pretty sure someone would've corrected it by now. So I think they only lack front teeth in the games due to issues with the teeth clipping through the "lips." Either that or some turians have them and some don't, much like Saren's weird fringe.

[Aeowyn]

Well in game they were supposed to say that Pallin died in the Battle of the Citadel and Chellik was made Executor. Then they removed it (but interestingly enough, if you let Sidonis go and listen to the news clip by Emily Wong, she mentions "Executor Chellik").

I read that comic and I hate it. Just one more "humans are taking over, turians are bad" - story. Seriously...

[Kim Shepard]

The comic was in a newspaper? I read it whenever a link was posted on the forums, quite some time ago. The whole thing was pretty confusing, and ended with more mysteries than answers. The news on the Citadel that Pallin died could just be a cover-up though.

As for Saren's fringe, Evolution all but confirms that it runs in the family. I think the teeth are just drawing style, not paying much attention to details. In Evolution, Saren/his brother has front bottom teeth on page 5, but not on page 7.

[Liec]

Brass_Buckles wrote...
We also don't know if it were just Sidonis's life being threatened.  Does Sidonis have a family?  And if you let Garrus kill him, who is missing Sidonis now? 

If Sidonis dies, then the news mention that he had no family and no one claimed the body.

[Kim Shepard]

Liec wrote...

Brass_Buckles wrote...
We also don't know if it were just Sidonis's life being threatened.  Does Sidonis have a family?  And if you let Garrus kill him, who is missing Sidonis now? 

If Sidonis dies, then the news mention that he had no family and no one claimed the body.

If Sidonis did have a family, would they have been able to find out about his death? Assuming he lived with his family on Omega, that is. Does it say where Sidonis' family lived?

[Sialater]

Sidonis only sent a message for Garrus to meet him, IIRC. He didn't appear in person.



He could have still been a prisoner.

[Evelinessa]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Evelinessa wrote...
I just hope we get more of difference in ME3 then we did in ME2. It might be nice if Garrus makes his own decisions but that has the potential to be bad like if he sacrifices himself or he stops me from achieving a goal, so that might not be a good idea.

I posted this in the Miranda thread, but it bears summarizing here.  There's a fine line between challenging the PC and undermining the PLAYER.  Obsidian party members are often an example of undermining the player--they hate each other, second-guess the protagonist, and generally get in the way.  It's FRUSTRATING.  Sten from DA:O is a party member who challenges the PC, but never really gets in the way of what the PLAYER wants.  That's kinda cool.  Characters like Sten are what get your PC to think and grow as a person.

I think what you're concerned about is Garrus causing trouble for the player, but thus far, none of the ME characters have really done that.  Wrex, arguably, but you have to f-up pretty bad to get him killed on Virmire.  Instead, the more vocal characters in ME--Wrex, possibly Mordin, Samara, and Miranda--tend more toward the "challenging the PC" mode than the "messing with the player" mode.  And that's something that I think could give Garrus a very interesting direction to grow in ME3.

Hmm, I like this idea. I would really like Garrus to develop this way but not too much. If he does it for most of the game I think that would be really bad since he is basically the one character that always agrees with Shep and trusts Shep so much that he never questions her decisions . So I would like Garrus to challenge us sometimes but if he does it too much I think it will be too out of character for him.

What I'm most concerned about is if I'm forced to kill him, or he sacrifices himself, or he even breaks up with me with no control of it. I really hope I don't end up on a mission and he's there and I have to kill him because he got in the way. I wouldn't choose to kill him I hope they don't make me automatically kill him like what happens if you don't persuade Wrex(This never happened to me because I always saved him). I doubt it would happen anyway. I just hope that he doesn't put him self in danger or end the relationship without my choice, especially if it's because of what I picked in an earlier game.

But I agree. I would like for Garrus to challenge us in ME3.

Also, during the supposed ME1 and ME2 LI conflict that will happen in ME3 what do you think Garrus would say in that situation? I'm not saying it will have any drama(I don't like too much drama)or anything but I'm sure he will at least say something. I wonder how he will feel about Liara or Kaidan. He must have known that we were dating them in ME1(I doubt the game will even acknowledge that he could have known though).

[Aeowyn]

For some reason I think he'll back down if the ME1 love interest expresses strong feelings towards Shepard.

[Kim Shepard]

I see Garrus as the kind of guy who would let Shepard decide who she wants, rather than fight for her, because he wouldn't want to get in the way of her happiness if she likes the other person more. Then he would be completely shocked and happy when she chose him.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aeowyn wrote...

For some reason I think he'll back down if the ME1 love interest expresses strong feelings towards Shepard.

Really?  Garrus does get pretty pissed on Shep's behalf on Horizon, regardless of whether Shep was romancing Ash or Kaidan.  I know he can be insecure about the relationship with Shep, but I think it will gall him that he stood by Shep through hell when the ME1 LI did not.  One of Garrus's defining characteristics is his utter loyalty and devotion to Shep through thick and thin--I think he'd be more than willing to call out Kaidan.

Not so sure about Liara--that's a different situation, and it can be (kind of ) resolved one way or the other in LoTSB with no input from Garrus.  At any rate, I hope they handle the issue of the ME1 and ME2 LIs in a manner that makes sense for each LI, not just generic dialogue that gets retweaked for each combination.  

[Aeowyn]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

For some reason I think he'll back down if the ME1 love interest expresses strong feelings towards Shepard.

Really?

Yes, but more for the reasons Kim wrote. Nearly 3 AM here and have a hard time forming coherent sentences atm lol