29107 réponses à ce sujet

[Eradyn]

Nice, Mr. Dizaztar.

Well...I can only hope that, now that Garrus is a LI option, BW will continue to do him justice. I think what worked out so well for him is that, as has been noted, he was never meant to be one in the first place. As such, he was designed just to be himself and to stand on his own merits as a character. So it's a breath of fresh air when you get a well-designed character whose design doesn't revolve around being something women (and some men) are "supposed" to desire but unintentionally has all the traits one might admire in a LI. It wasn't manufactured, it just was. If any of that made sense...

[ThatDancingTurian]

That comic is hilarious. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the next step on the coolness scale is Boba Fett, and Garrus already has 'badass in space' covered.

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

I was a million times more upset about Nihlus dying then Jenkins. First off, you KNEW that boy was toast the moment shep said "you have a long career ahead of you" after playing DAO I thought "yup you're those two blokes that I can't remember the names of". But Nihlus, he was cool, confident, for those few moments he was alive he was awesome. That's why I was surprised when he got killed off that early, but thankfully it was by Saren and it was a cool death. I mean how lame would it have been if he got killed by a weak-ass geth drone-Uh, sorry Jenkins LOL

Same here, I don't even remember Jenkins most of the time, but I was so upset when they killed Nihlus.

Jenkins was just boring. Did you want to get to know him better? No. But the moment Nihlus walked on-screen I was all, "Whoa! That guy is awesome!"

jellobell wrote...

Garrus has got to be my favourite Bioware romance, which is weird because they never really intended for him to be a romantic option. All of the L.I.s that were supposed to be appealing never really did anything for me. Carth, Sky, Kaiden, they all felt way too similar.

Like Eradyn said, I think that may be one of the reasons why I love Garrus. He wasn't conceptualized with the intent to make me fall in love with him, I wasn't being plied with adorable goo-goo eyes and flirty compliments and roguish smirks. He was made to be an interesting character. It just naturally followed that I'd want to romance him because he's cool and funny and intriguing. It didn't feel like some orchestrated effort to make me want him.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Eradyn wrote...

Nice, Mr. Dizaztar.

Well...I can only hope that, now that Garrus is a LI option, BW will continue to do him justice. I think what worked out so well for him is that, as has been noted, he was never meant to be one in the first place. As such, he was designed just to be himself and to stand on his own merits as a character. So it's a breath of fresh air when you get a well-designed character whose design doesn't revolve around being something women (and some men) are "supposed" to desire but unintentionally has all the traits one might admire in a LI. It wasn't manufactured, it just was. If any of that made sense...

I think that Mass Effect has shown that doing things by accident can lead to greatness. I don't even know if Garrus's personal character arc was meant to echo Shepard's so perfectly, with both stories giving new perspectve on the other. Hs story serves equally well as a cautionary tale about the dangers of Renegade overconfidence, or as an apprenticeship in the school of badassery. Was this intentional? I don't know! 

(Tangentially related to the "accidents of fate" point, FemShep is my favorite female video game character of all time. She might be my favorite female character in all of science fiction, and yet she's basically invisible to a lot of people. Maybe that's why she's so great. Keep not doing things on purpose, Bioware!) 

One thing I would be interested to see in ME3 is this: if you do break up with Garrus (I... may have to do it in at least one file), I'd like to see him handle it well. One of the things that attracted me to this relationship was that I wasn't entering into some unbreakable vow of love - I was just going to have some good times with a dude who was a really good friend, and share something with him that would make us even closer. That's a relationship mechanic I've seen a lot in real life, but I've never actually seen portrayed in the media. Yeah things got serious and emotional in the end, but there's still an undercurrent here of just being relaxed and comfortable around each other. I'm not saying he shouldn't be upset if you end things, but I'd rather see him say "Aw, we had a good run though, eh?" than "Noooo, but I pledged my undying love to you!" I'd also like to see him mock your other LI about the fact that you slept together, but that may be asking too much.

"Hey Kaidan, remember that time on Illium, when Shepard got drunk and...  oh right, you weren't there. Never mind." 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Like Eradyn said, I think that may be one of the reasons why I love Garrus. He wasn't conceptualized with the intent to make me fall in love with him, I wasn't being plied with adorable goo-goo eyes and flirty compliments and roguish smirks. He was made to be an interesting character. It just naturally followed that I'd want to romance him because he's cool and funny and intriguing. It didn't feel like some orchestrated effort to make me want him.

I agree.  Thane's romance, for example, set off my warning bells.  I love him to death as a character.  I think he's a wonderful character, and a fascinating one.  But his romance was specifically designed to hit to the Woobie LI button, and it really didn't work for me.  

(And yes, I'm aware that I fell hard for Anders' Woobie-ish, angsty charms.  I am a woman and I reserve the right to be inconsistent )

Going along with what Aris and Eradyn have said, Garrus's character development isn't tied to his romance.  He becomes a badass on his own after ME1.  Regardless of romance, Shep helps him deal with his revenge issues in ME2.  He's your awesome, rock steady, loyal, stylish right hand turian, and unlike some of the other LIs, you don't have to romance him to get that.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 13 avril 2011 - 11:52 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I don't think Garrus would ever be melodramatic about a breakup. He'd probably do the same thing he does if you turn him down at the very end of ME2, mask his pain with jokes and then walk off dejected.

I'm torn about that last thing. I think Garrus is just too chill to make any truly snide comments at any other LIs and I wouldn't want him to be OOC, but I still kind of want him to make a few jabs at Kaidan because the whole fun of having multiple LIs is to watch them sniping at each other and competing for my attention. ::horrible::

[jellobell]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

jellobell wrote...

Garrus has got to be my favourite Bioware romance, which is weird because they never really intended for him to be a romantic option. All of the L.I.s that were supposed to be appealing never really did anything for me. Carth, Sky, Kaiden, they all felt way too similar.

Like Eradyn said, I think that may be one of the reasons why I love Garrus. He wasn't conceptualized with the intent to make me fall in love with him, I wasn't being plied with adorable goo-goo eyes and flirty compliments and roguish smirks. He was made to be an interesting character. It just naturally followed that I'd want to romance him because he's cool and funny and intriguing. It didn't feel like some orchestrated effort to make me want him.

That's probably the reason why I prefer Garrus to all other Bioware romances. His character really benefitted from having a whole extra game's worth of character development before the whole romance bit. I like subtle romances. I like it when they stretch out the "getting to know you" stage because, in my mind, the best relationships are based on trust. Love at first sight may be dramatic, but in the end it's not very compelling.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

"Hey Kaidan, remember that time on Illium, when Shepard got drunk and...  oh right, you weren't there. Never mind."

I would die from laughter if this were to happen. 

[ThatDancingTurian]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I agree.  Thane's romance, for example, set off my warning bells.  I love him to death as a character.  I think he's a wonderful character, and a fascinating one.  But his romance was specifically designed to hit to the Woobie LI button, and it really didn't work for me.

I think that's my big problem with Thane, I felt like the devs were too sure of themselves about him. I kept hearing about how he was designed to be the perfect love interest for me and I look at him and can't help but think, "That's the best you've got?" ... He wasn't a bad character by any means, but they certainly liked to brag enough about how great a LI he was for us ladies and for all the hype, all I can see is a new species I don't find particularly interesting or attractive and a character who has a backstory I feel like I've already heard before. I feel like he ran on cool points alone. "Look at me, I'm tragic and mysterious and I wear black leather and I kill people but I'm deeply spiritual!"

(To add to the inconsistency, a lot of people say the same things about Fenris that I just said about Thane and I still love him to bits, almost as much as Garrus. Yay for womens' prerogative? It's no wonder they can't pin us down. )

EDIT:

jellobell wrote...

That's probably the reason why I prefer Garrus to all other Bioware romances. His character really benefitted from having a whole extra game's worth of character development before the whole romance bit. I like subtle romances. I like it when they stretch out the "getting to know you" stage because, in my mind, the best relationships are based on trust. Love at first sight may be dramatic, but in the end it's not very compelling.

Exactly. With other romances they try to create the illusion of that connection because they don't have time to develop that level of trust. With Garrus it's already there, no work necessary.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 14 avril 2011 - 12:07 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I think Garrus is just too chill to make any truly snide comments at any other LIs and I wouldn't want him to be OOC, but I still kind of want him to make a few jabs at Kaidan because the whole fun of having multiple LIs is to watch them sniping at each other and competing for my attention. ::horrible::

Psht.  We're all horrible   The things that we'd run away from for sheer awkward IRL are amazingly fun in video games.  Like having badass space soldiers fight over us.

Though the catfights between Bishop and Casavir were still the best.

[jellobell]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Though the catfights between Bishop and Casavir were still the best.

The only reason I liked having Mical (the disciple) around was how possesive he made Atton act. :innocent:

I wouldn't mind seeing Garrus act jealous for a change. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

jellobell wrote...
I wouldn't mind seeing Garrus act jealous for a change. 

Garrus is too chill of a dude to get jealous, though.  He wouldn't yell at Shep the way Kaidan did on Horizon.  He'd just make some flippant comment and go sadface by himself in a corner.

I could see him getting angry, though.  Different from jealous.  And the idea of  Garrus telling someone to step off FemShep before he gets a fist in the face is giving me dirty thoughts :innocent:

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 14 avril 2011 - 12:22 .

[jellobell]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

jellobell wrote...
I wouldn't mind seeing Garrus act jealous for a change. 

Garrus is too chill of a dude to get jealous, though.  He wouldn't yell at Shep the way Kaidan did on Horizon.  He'd just make some flippant comment and go sadface by himself in a corner.

It all depends on what form the jealousy takes. I see Garrus as sarcastically passive-aggresive when jealous, which could be very entertaining.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I don't think Garrus would ever be melodramatic about a breakup. He'd probably do the same thing he does if you turn him down at the very end of ME2, mask his pain with jokes and then walk off dejected.

I'm torn about that last thing. I think Garrus is just too chill to make any truly snide comments at any other LIs and I wouldn't want him to be OOC, but I still kind of want him to make a few jabs at Kaidan because the whole fun of having multiple LIs is to watch them sniping at each other and competing for my attention. ::horrible::

I watched the "end-stage-Garrus-rejection" on youtube recently, and it got to me even more than "I just want something to go right." did. The fact that the last thing he says is "I'll be there, when you need me." Oh God My Heart!

Honestly, I think there's a good chance he'd handle it better now than he would then, if that makes any sense. I think he really wanted to share something special with Shep, and I believe he was being honest when he said he just wanted "a few moments that are just for us, before we throw ourselves into hell for the good of the galaxy." He got that, at least, and I think he'd be able to just enjoy the moment, without cluttering it up with specific expectations for the future. Hope, for more, sure - though based on his reaction if you get involved in a ME2 triangle and choose him, I honestly don't think his expectations are that high.

In my mind, Garrus sniping your other LI would be in character if you ended up not choosing him. He'd be thinking "OK, Kaidan. You won this round. But just so you know - I was a real threat there for a while. I may even have been the better choice." If you pick Garrus, I expect him to be cool about it, naturally.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 14 avril 2011 - 12:28 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...s is "I'll be there, when you need me." Oh God My Heart!

Honestly, I think there's a good chance he'd handle it better now than he would then, if that makes any sense. I think he really wanted to share something special with Shep, and I believe he was being honest when he said he just wanted "a few moments that are just for us, before we throw ourselves into hell for the good of the galaxy." He got that, at least, and I think he'd be able to just enjoy the moment, without cluttering it up with specific expectations for the future. Hope, for more, sure - though based on his reaction if you get involved in a ME2 triangle and choose him, I honestly don't think his expectations are that high.

I think part of it is Garrus not getting his hopes up so he can protect himself, and part of it is him being a chill, realistic, reasonable dude.  He's not looking for declarations of undying love.  He's not bothering with the future.  He knows that he and Shep live a dangerous and likely fatal life, and he's just happy to have his time with her.

[ThatDancingTurian]

jellobell wrote...
The only reason I liked having Mical (the disciple) around was how possesive he made Atton act. :innocent:

Oh yes, that was one of my favorite things about Atton. I just wish he'd actually gotten around to mentioning it to the Exile for all his posturing.

I'm not sure if I can see Garrus getting into anything with Kaidan solely because of jealousy, but I could see him having an issue with Kaidan abandoning Shepard (and the team) at Horizon. We know he had his reasons, but I'm not sure if Garrus would see it that way since Garrus is Mr. Blind Loyalty.

@CulturalGeekGirl: I think that video alone is a good argument for why he probably will be totally cool with the other LIs. He's pretty clear on his feelings about love triangles and holding grudges.

[jellobell]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

In my mind, Garrus sniping your other LI would be in character if you ended up not choosing him. He'd be thinking "OK, Kaidan. You won this round. But just so you know - I was a real threat there for a while. I may even have been the better choice." If you pick Garrus, I expect him to be cool about it, naturally.

I hear you, but what about if it's an ongoing love triangle? As in, Shepard hasn't chosen yet.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

jellobell wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

In my mind, Garrus sniping your other LI would be in character if you ended up not choosing him. He'd be thinking "OK, Kaidan. You won this round. But just so you know - I was a real threat there for a while. I may even have been the better choice." If you pick Garrus, I expect him to be cool about it, naturally.

I hear you, but what about if it's an ongoing love triangle? As in, Shepard hasn't chosen yet.

I think in the pre-decision stage he'd probably keep it a little lighter, try not to push things too much, though I'm not entirely sure. There would probably be some jokes, though. Some of the teasing he does with Tali in infamous elevator sequences gets pretty personal, and she never tried to steal his girlfriend... AS FAR A WE KNOW (cue dramatic chords and thunder crash.)

Though now that other people bring it up, I do think there's a fair chance that he's going to be annoyed about Horizon. What's more, in my playthrough, he was there.  "So I've been brainwashed too? And this ex-special tasks Salarian - also brainwashed? It's not like we're the poster kids for pro-human extremism."

This line of reasoning did lead to another post-rejection Garrus inner monologue popping into my head: "Oh, and if you ever screw up again like you did on Horizon, I'll be there. To pick up the pieces, or to deliver a headshot. Maybe both! Whatever she wants."  I don't think he'd ever actually say that, though. Unless you've influenced him toward the Renegade style in both games. In which case... maybe. I doubt they'll actually have a serious amount of post-rejection dialogue... but it's goddam fun to think about.

[jellobell]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Though now that other people bring it up, I do think there's a fair chance that he's going to be annoyed about Horizon. What's more, in my playthrough, he was there.  "So I've been brainwashed too? And this ex-special tasks Salarian - also brainwashed? It's not like we're the poster kids for pro-human extremism."

He was there is my playthrough as well. I was so grateful that he spoke up too, it cheered me up immensely. I'd love it if there was some dialogue that mentions it it in ME3.

Modifié par jellobell, 14 avril 2011 - 01:51 .

[MoonEcho]

 The evil part of me is so looking forward to love triangle drama. I think Garrus will be mostly gracious even if you don't choose him... but I'm having a little more fun imagining the Kaidan-rejection conversations, a la:

Kaidan: "You're choosing Garrus over me? *broody smoldering gaze* What does he have that I don't, Shepard?"
Renegade Dialogue Option: Reach. 

Modifié par MoonEcho, 14 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[jellobell]

MoonEcho wrote...

 The evil part of me is so looking forward to love triangle drama. I think Garrus will be mostly gracious even if you don't choose him... but I'm having a little more fun imagining the Kaidan-rejection conversations, a la:

Kaidan: "You're choosing Garrus over me? *broody smoldering gaze* What does he have that I don't, Shepard?"
Renegade Dialogue Option: Reach. 

*Snrk*  You're right, I was thinking about this the wrong way. The most entertainment is obviously going to come from Kaidan.

[Dengarde]

Doesn't look like anyone has mentioned this, so I shall.

Garrus is a bro. And here's a big ass wall o' text explaining why.

[MoonEcho]

jellobell wrote...
*Snrk*  You're right, I was thinking about this the wrong way. The most entertainment is obviously going to come from Kaidan.

Probably! I honestly do anticipate Kaidan making a pretty valiant effort. Bioware wouldn't bother reinserting the original LI's into Shep's life without making things interesting and dramatic. So, Kaidan will undoubtedly do something worthwhile, possibly amazing, and redeem himself a little.

Though short of growing mandibles, it will be futile. Entertaining but futile, Alenko!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I am totally cheating on the Kaidan Alenko support thread with this thread even now!

Also, that blog Dengarde linked is awesome.

[technoquarian]

Platform_Error wrote...

It just seemed to me that toward the end Saren starts to really hear Shepard,almost like he considers him/her an exception to the rule regarding his hatred. I know that doesn't imply romantic feelings, I guess I just like pretending that's what it implies for my own amusement XD. You're right, there isn't any evidence to support that either turian was interested but I think in Nihlus' case there was, at the very least, some potential. I mean, Shepard definitely had his attention. Oh heck, I just love turians and I want them all to love my femshep XD

I definitely see your point- and I agree, he started to hear Shepard, but I didn't pick up on anything past that.  Another one of those "your mileage may vary" situations, I guess xD

Honestly, I can see a past between Saren and Nihlus easier than either with Shepard.  It might squick some, but there you have it.  Just the complete and utter trust Nihlus showed for his old mentor...He actually seemed pleasantly surprised to see him.  That and that little "hand-on-shoulder, slink around behind you" move that Saren does.  Mrrr.

Nothing wrong with wanting them to love your Shep, though!

---

As for Thane, I feel the same way as a lot of you seem to about him.  It's like he was wearing a big sign that said "I'm chock-full of everything people are supposed to find sexy!" and I was just like...No.  I know he was supposed to be a sympathetic character but I felt worse for Garrus, Tali (and all of the quarians, really, even sexy evil Xen), hell, even Kaidan.  But yeah.

As for Kaidan and Garr in ME3?  I just want them to get along and not create any drama.  I kept my main FemShep faithful to Kaidan (and omg, not taking Garrus up on his "suggestions"...hardest thing EVER) but if I could, I'd keep 'em both and have all three be one big happy family

Modifié par technoquarian, 14 avril 2011 - 02:52 .