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[jellobell]

Arcian wrote...

German Garrus sounds better than I thought. Nothing compared to BK, but still good.

Makes me want to search for vids of Garrus in all the other languages ME's available in. French Garrus? Italian Garrus?

Oops, new page. Have a french Garrus, then.

Modifié par jellobell, 14 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

jellobell wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Thanks! Mass Effect is actually the first thing I've ever really obsessed about like this. I've always been sort of a fan of all trades - one day I'll be watchin' some anime, the next day reading some books, whatever, s'all good. The structure of that blog was entirely unintentioal, but I like it. It captures my train of thought while playing the game, as I invested more and more into the character. (For the curious, blog here)

Sooo, which one are you going to go for first in ME3? I found it interesting how your Shepard thought of Garrus as "just a friend" until she was dumped by Kaidan.

In the case of my main Shepard, Kaidan died on Virmire. She hadn't really "connected" with any of the L.I.s, but his death effected her deeply because she thought of her crew as a kind of substitute family (she's a colonial). That's also why she was so disturbed by the initial hostility of the new crew, and she found herself relying more and more on Garrus, until he became more of a partner than a subordinate.

It's a bit of my feelings mixed in with my character's backstory. I didn't fall in love with Garrus right away in ME1. I thought he was a cool guy, and his voice was awesome, but he was my bro, y'know? We were kindred spirits, except that my Shepard tried to work around authority whereas Garrus just barged right through it. It was only near the end of ME1 that I realized that I'd developed a weird kind of crush on him. I'd talked to him more than any other squaddie, he (and Wrex) were always on my team, and I felt closer to him than any of the others.

One thing I like about this thread is how open people are to the other LIs and characters here, and how interested they are in the love triangles. In the Kaidan thread sometimes I feel like nobody has any doubts. They just post sexy screenshots and then use fifty emoticons.

What I will do first in ME3 depends on a lot of things.

1. How apologetic is Kaidan? If he is just completely destroying himself over his mistakes on Horizon, it will be harder for me to resist him. If he's still mad at me over the whole Cerberus thing, then that's a huge turnoff.

2. How does Kaidan handle the revelation that I got with Garrus in the interim. If he's jealous and hurt but not-confrontational about it, it will help. If he's angry about it and feels "cheated on," then bah to him. Best case scenario for him is understanding but sad.

3. How is Garrus looking at this whole situation? If he's obviously serious about making things work long-term, it's going to make me not want to leave him. If he's legitimately cool about that night being a really intimate moment between best friends, that will make it easier.

Though really all that boils down to two questions: will Garrus and I still be good bros after this? Is Kaidan going to apologize about Horizon?

Also, reposting this just to keep it on the page.

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

My Heart! Again! This would have been a good place to go after the headbump, I'm just saying. I love the headbump, we all love the headbump. But this... This.

[jeweledleah]

/ventures in again

@ culturalgeekgirl - not the first experience I had here, and not a huge fan of Turians in general, just Garrus really, but

I think love triangle with Garrus and Kaidan will be the one with most depth, in some ways with most angst and I think with Garrus, Kaidan would be the most understanding. sad, but resigned. I doubt he would fight, he might have an angry outburst that would be quickly squished (at least old Kaidan would - no idea what writers are doing with him now) I mean its not some stranger - its someone Shepard knew for as long as him and Garrus WAS there for her, at her side, when Kaidan couldn't be.

And Garrus... the dynamic between him and Shepard is fascinating. he looks up to Shepard, he has Shepard on this tall pedestal, to him, I think shepard is what he wants to be like. he's not as much of his own man as Kaidan is - before my head is bitten off, this is how I see him he gave in to a lot in his life, even when he would rebel - he still gave in, caved, he gave up on being a spectre because of his father's wishes, he gave up on c-sec, because he had even less tolerance for red tape then Shepard, he gave up on his revenge - Twice (provided you are paragon) because Shepard convinced him to. and maybe that's why it was easier for him to fall back straight into following Shepard again, accept Shepard's association with Cerberus. you know, his shadowbroker dossier? has a lot of merit. Shepard might have given Garrus a bit more of a direction in life, but Shepard is also holding him back...because Garrus is letting Shepard, in a way, I think he welcomes it because Shepard gives him a weird sort of stability.

I'm not as angry at Horizon as a lot of people. I don't think Kaidan has anything to apologize for and even his letter? he doesn't want to guilt Shepard into anything or expects anything from her. leaving a way out...again. its a letter letting Shepard decide instead, leaving it up to her. and I think that would end up being a dynamic. let Shepard decide. from both Garrus and Kaidan. and whatever she picks - they will adjust to. except for trying to wiggle out of a choice, I don't think either of them will like that and both of them might just give up on Shep.

I'm very curious to see how Garrus/Shepard relationship develops regardless of romance status. friends, lovers - I want to see where they end up and how Garrus's character grows. And since I have no idea what my own Garrus committed Shepard is going to do (she had no idea that he felt so seriously about her, she just wanted to release some tension with the only trusted friend she has left, and now she is confused), ME3 is going to be very interesting... I hope

[MoonEcho]

jellobell wrote...
*Frenchie*

I lol'd.  And then I: 

[Obsydian]

I get the feeling that Kaidan is going to apologetic.. Honeslty, he seems the type to understand, but I mean, seeing it from his POV, it must have been seriously hard. I mean, we all see it from Shep's POV where its been days. He lived without her for 2 years... and yeah, it sucks that she didn't contact him, but its not like she could. That whole saving the world and being a pawn of TIM thing.. I think it would take some sinking in.

That said.... Garrus has been loyal THE WHOLE TIME... so yeah. It's gonna be a hard choice for some of my Sheps.

Also, more of that cuteness is always a good thing.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Obsydian wrote...

I get the feeling that Kaidan is going to apologetic.. Honeslty, he seems the type to understand, but I mean, seeing it from his POV, it must have been seriously hard. I mean, we all see it from Shep's POV where its been days. He lived without her for 2 years... and yeah, it sucks that she didn't contact him, but its not like she could. That whole saving the world and being a pawn of TIM thing.. I think it would take some sinking in.

That said.... Garrus has been loyal THE WHOLE TIME... so yeah. It's gonna be a hard choice for some of my Sheps.

Also, more of that cuteness is always a good thing.

Honestly, it bugs me a bit that Shep didn't just email everyone on her old squad 

"Hey guys, long time no see. I got brought back to life. This isn't a joke. Crap. Ok, now that I'm writing this, I can see how you wouldn't believe me. Look, I got brought back to life by Cerberus and I don't feel like a clone so I'm probably ok and..."

/message deleted unsent

[Sable Rhapsody]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

"Hey guys, long time no see. I got brought back to life. This isn't a joke. Crap. Ok, now that I'm writing this, I can see how you wouldn't believe me. Look, I got brought back to life by Cerberus and I don't feel like a clone so I'm probably ok and..."

/message deleted unsent

LOL.  I think that's precisely why my FemShep didn't bother.  She figured no one would believe her anyway, and she wasn't wasting her breath trying to convince them.

I wasn't too broken up about Horizon, mostly because my Shep a) didn't romance anyone in ME1 and totally saw where Ash was coming from.  My Shep LOATHED Cerberus.  Had she been in Ash's shoes, she would've had the exact same harsh words, the same reaction.  Once she got over her initial anger, she was totally willing to move on from that.

[jellobell]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I wasn't too broken up about Horizon, mostly because my Shep a) didn't romance anyone in ME1 and totally saw where Ash was coming from.  My Shep LOATHED Cerberus.  Had she been in Ash's shoes, she would've had the exact same harsh words, the same reaction.  Once she got over her initial anger, she was totally willing to move on from that.

I'm kind of in the middle. My mostly-paragon Shepard hates cerberus, but she was also hurt by Ash's reaction. She didn't even try to listen, and Shepard considered her one of her best friends in the universe, someone who she could count on to have her back, almsot like a sister. Intellectually, she could see where Ash was coming from. Emotionally, it was still hurtful. Also, why don't you get an email even if you didn't do the romance?! I was pissed about this. Sure, Shep and Ash didn't sleep together, but they were best friends all the same. I think that entitles me to a single Goddamn letter.

[Obsydian]

yeah, i can see that.... My mainShep would totally email them. The one's she could reach, that is...   

Modifié par Obsydian, 15 avril 2011 - 12:36 .

[Eradyn]

Garrus being his own man is what defines his character. He flips off authority from ME1 to ME2 and does whatever the hell he wants. Not for the sake of rebelling but for the sake of upholding his principles. And it's only because he respects Shepard that much that he is willing to concede even an inch to Shepard. In reality, it takes a rare individual to have the humility and confidence to honestly attempt to see another's point of view or to concede to an alternative opinion contrary to their own. So many pay that lip-service, so few actually know how to practice that. To some, that makes him "weak-willed" or "spineless" or "childish" (a "student" to Shepard's "mentor"). To me, his behavior screams "open-minded," "self-assured," and "pragmatic."

I suppose it says something of the complexities and depth of some of these characters that we can identify with them on different levels or interpret them in such different ways.

Re Kaidan/Ash: I'll be glad to have Ash back. I will be expecting a sincere, heartfelt apology from her as the reapers rain down from the heavens at the trial. Then we may kick ass together.

[silentstephi]

Eradyn wrote...

Garrus being his own man is what defines his character. He flips off authority from ME1 to ME2 and does whatever the hell he wants. Not for the sake of rebelling but for the sake of upholding his principles. And it's only because he respects Shepard that much that he is willing to concede even an inch to Shepard. In reality, it takes a rare individual to have the humility and confidence to honestly attempt to see another's point of view or to concede to an alternative opinion contrary to their own. So many pay that lip-service, so few actually know how to practice that. To some, that makes him "weak-willed" or "spineless" or "childish" (a "student" to Shepard's "mentor"). To me, his behavior screams "open-minded," "self-assured," and "pragmatic."

I suppose it says something of the complexities and depth of some of these characters that we can identify with them on different levels or interpret them in such different ways.

And yea.  This.

[jellobell]

Eradyn wrote...

Re Kaidan/Ash: I'll be glad to have Ash back. I will be expecting a sincere, heartfelt apology from her as the reapers rain down from the heavens at the trial. Then we may kick ass together.

This. Ash is, to my Femshep, what Garrus is to my Manshep. A bro, a buddy, a sister (I'm not quite sure how someone can be a brother and a sister at the same time, but Ash is). I'd like a make-up fistbump before we go kick ass together.

Modifié par jellobell, 15 avril 2011 - 01:01 .

[jeweledleah]

I wouldn't call Garrus week willed or spineless.. just directionless. I think he's still trying to figure out what he is, who he is, find his own way. Shepard gives him a sort of direction, a goal that he could relate to, sets an example that Garrus can respect. I don't think he's self assured. he's trying to be, but deep inside, he's full of doubts. did he do the right thing by going for c-sec instead of spectres? did he do the right thing leaving both? did he do the right thing by killing Sidonis/letting him go? could he have prevented the slaughter of his team, should he have just let them be instead of causing their deaths? its especially apparent in his romance arc - these doubts, he desire for things to just work for once, so that he doesn't feel the doubts anymore.

the jokes, the quips, I feel like they are a defense mechanism, hiding a vulnerability that only Shepard ever gets to see.

my take on him anyways

[Eradyn]

People generally aren't all or nothing. They are multi-layered and have moments of confidence and moments of doubt. For us, we call that "being human." In Garrus' case, "being turian." He knows where he wants to go, what he wants to do...he might question if he ended up doing the right thing in particular instances, but I don't think that means he is directionless or generally lacking in self-confidence. I do agree that sometimes his quips might be a mechanism to redirect his discomfort or make light of a serious situation, but I don't think he's a quivering ball of self-doubt and confusion fronting a complete facade of manufactured confidence to hide some sort of inner flailing, if you will.

Modifié par Eradyn, 15 avril 2011 - 01:10 .

[jeweledleah]

I suppose. I did a lot of talking to Garrus from both renegade and paragon perspective and it feels like he wants to do some good, he wants to make a difference, he is hot headed enough to some times take actions without thinking first and then he feels remorse about them. One of the things he's sure of is that he'll get to make that difference, with Shepard.

with his renegade conversations, its almost like he's looking for confirmation from Shepard that he's doing the right thing, making the right choices. with paragon...shepard makes hm doubt more, makes him see things from different perspective. he feels like he's not a very good Turian, because he doubts the orders he's given and he's trying to find more, do more.

I don't think he's a quivering ball of doubt at all times - he woudln't be able to function as well as he does if he was, but I don't think he sleeps well at night either. maybe a bit better with a renegade Shepard for a partner, but still. Garrus is tough and he's capable he is extremely likable, and he's my favorite choice of XO, if I actually had a choice, but I think he still has some room to grow before he's Chuck Vakarian.

[Eradyn]

Fair enough. Like I said, I think there are many viable interpretations of the character. As for Garrus being XO, now...I don't know...can anyone really see him as the sort who'd actually make an about-face and enjoy mountainous quantities of paper-work? Because I can see him running in the opposite direction as though chased by a pack of rabid thresher maws if Shep ever waved an offer for that position in his face. xD

[Obsydian]

jeweledleah wrote...

with his renegade conversations, its almost like he's looking for confirmation from Shepard that he's doing the right thing, making the right choices. with paragon...shepard makes hm doubt more, makes him see things from different perspective. he feels like he's not a very good Turian, because he doubts the orders he's given and he's trying to find more, do more.
.

This right here is a thing I noticed. I just finished a more renegade playthrough of ME and I noticed that all of the paragon options were me telling him, No Garrus, thats not necessarily the way things should be done.  I went full paragon on my first playthrough, so I tried things a bit differently on this one, and ended up liking the results a bit more.I didn't feel like I was chastising him the whole time like i did with the Paragon options. 
I have noticed that most of the time, he'll defer to what Shepard wants with little questioning, but there is definitly times when I noticed doubt in his voice.   Like at the end of the game, when I chose to save the Councel (I can't live without air quotes)   he seemd rather disappointed in my decision, but he supported it anyway. 

I do feel that he is finding his feet.   I think thats kinda what makes him endearing....  

Modifié par Obsydian, 15 avril 2011 - 01:47 .

[jeweledleah]

oh no, not that kind of XO I'd rather keep dumping paper work on Miranda. but Garrus seems to be able to not only get along with everyone, but he also inspires confidence in others. in that regard, he's a lot like Shepard, he has that fire in him. I'm not sure its XO's job to mostly file reports for the captain, never seen Prestley do anything like that and he was Shep's XO throughout ME1. but I can see Garrus doing very well with meditating, inspiring, and commanding the crew (he was my fire team leading in vast majority of my playthroughs as well - would have been one in all of them, if it fit all my Shepards) just make it official, you know. and I think it could give him that last push to grow and reach his full potential.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

You're both right, of course.

Garrus is my favorite kind of character: a really competent and skilled guy who is always getting in a little over his head. As cool as him being Archangel was (and it was unbelievably cool), after he lost his squad, he resigned himself to going out in a blaze of glory. If you hadn't come along, he would have died up there, alone. 

I'm a big fan of all the Garrus is so awesome he can do anything memes. But as much as I love them, his failures are just as big a part of his character. Garrus's life seems to fit a pattern where he does his best, starts to feel awesome about himself, then gets slammed down again.

"Hey Dad, I got picked to train for the Spectres." 
"No son of mine is getting any Spectre training!"

"I'm in C-Sec and I'm really starting to do some real good." 
"Yeah, but you can't touch the truly powerful." 

"Ok, well I just helped take down the worst threat in the Galaxy, so it's time to start pursuing my own goals again." 
"Everyone's downplaying what you accomplished, and nothing's really changed. Also, that Commander Shepard you respected so much? She's dead now."

"I'll just make a squad of vigilantes and kill some bad guys. Surely that's simple enough?" 
"Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died."

His confidence comes from the "up" part of these up and down cycles. His self-doubt and carelessness come from the down parts - why even try when everything always goes wrong? He knows he has real potential, knows he can do some real good, because he is amazing, he does awesome stuff all the time. But this evidence of greatness is undercut by his repeated failures. Look at his reaction to his scars - I thought it was cute how he wanted someone to show him a mirror, with his little self-deprecating comment after you tell him it's pretty bad. He's simultaneously thinking "Man, I'm still awesome" and "Well, there go my looks. Great job again, idiot." 

It's the ability to be and think both of these things at the same time that make him so attractive. It lets him have confidence without arrogance.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 15 avril 2011 - 01:55 .

[Eradyn]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

-*wall of awesome*-

Yes, this.  It makes for a very real character, one that has more depth than most stereotypes we are handed.

[jellobell]

 @CulturalGeekGirl: That's pretty much where I think Garrus is at right now. He does awesome stuff all the time, but it never seems to go quite right. That's why, I think, he makes it seem like he's okay with a very casual fling. He's just starting to assume that nothing good that happens to him will last, so he's preparing himself for disappointment. I think, though, that he's more effected by the "fling" than he wants to be. You can see it during the final scene. He admits it to himself, and Shepard, when he says that he wants just one thing to go right. He thinks that if he allows himself to really care about his relationship with Shepard, it'll go wrong, and it'll hurt him, but he's doing it anyway. That takes a strong personality.

And after typing that all out I just want to give him a big hug. Kelly can be totally right sometimes. 
*thinks wistfully about the Deunan/Briareos hug*

Modifié par jellobell, 15 avril 2011 - 02:30 .

[Obsydian]

....Can I say how awesome you all are right now. Culturegirl... yes. I think I just fell in love with Garrus a little more. Good god, if only some of you guys were writers for BioWare.

*also thinking wistfully about the hug*

[Rheia]

Stumbled over pretty colors looking through some of my watched favorites... then realized it's Garrus

sorry if this was linked before! 
Author's page: here

[Obsydian]

ya know, I just found that one in my folder of hotness.... and was like, wow. i forgot that one existed.