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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#24426
CulturalGeekGirl

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

dannybates wrote...

NoNoNoNo I bloody well could resist it.

Perhaps.

I just keep forgetting that not everyone in the world is bi.

I am horribly skewed like that.

Anyway, to celebrate the s/s news and to make dannybates uncomfortable, here are some gay turians:

Image IPB

By my fabulous best-friend-in-real-life, who you can bother here.


The style of this makes me think of historical woodcuts. Now I'm picturing Shepard reading through some book of Turian history and stumbling upon this little gem... and blushing furiously.

#24427
Obsydian

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Meta Ray Mek wrote...

Honestly, to me? Garrus' romance did seem like it was intended to be bi in the first place. Either the writer knew about the female turian design or it's an act of retroactive fridge brilliance, but female turians don't have fringes. Male turians do. While he could have been using 'fringe' as a comparison for hair, think about that the next time you hear that line.

Besides, I think the LGBT population deserve to have a bi love interest, even if it's Garrus. Believe it or not, there ARE gay fans of Garrus out there who want to romance Garrus with a male Shepard. They may not want to play as a Female Shepard for it and that's okay. Maybe they feel more comfortable playing a player character of their gender. And that's okay too.

And really, how should the way they play a game with a bi/gay Garrus affect how you play your game? If you're already romancing Garrus with a female Shepard, then voila! He's not bi in your game. If you're a dudebro, guess what? You can easily avoid any sort of romantic advancements if you just pay attention to the dialogue wheel (or if they enable a Dragon Age 2 system, any symbols that indicate a romance path).

It's not going to be that hard to avoid a gay/bi Garrus. But to say that the idea is "gross" and stuff is a huge insult to the gay gamers who've been wanting a M/M romance with him as much as the females among us -myself included- wanted a hetero romance with him from the very beginning of the franchise.

But that's only my opinion. I could be wrong.



you are not wrong in the least .... i'm a bi female who would love to be able to have a m/m romance in my game.  I did that in both DA games.  My favorite fictional couple is an m/m couple.

like i said. it should be OPTIONAL. 

and danny, i'm sorry that we're making you uncomfortable. but... *shrug*  only a little sorry. it wouldn't be a thing that you HAD to do.
hell, even if its not Garrus, there shuold be an m/m option. there just should.


CCG, i realy like that picture. that really is awesome.

#24428
AdmiralCheez

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The style of this makes me think of historical woodcuts. Now I'm picturing Shepard reading through some book of Turian history and stumbling upon this little gem... and blushing furiously.

That would be awesome.  Yeah, I don't know if she intentionally went for that angle or what, but it turned out great.

ALSO, accidental TotP!  Win!

ALSO ALSO, humorous brain poison.

#24429
Eradyn

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I also believe the LGBT community "deserves" (in as much as any gamer deserves anything) to have dedicated romance options created with them in mind. To be honest, I had to shake my head with DA2's "everyone's bi" path.

And frankly, Meta, I could say, "Garrus' romance did seem like it was intended to be straight in the first place," and have at least just as much ground for it. DH's repeated butchering of the ME universe and its characters is proof enough they aren't a reliable source for anything, while I would place far more weight on the information revealed in-game as that is established and controlled directly by BW.

I, too, also fully support brokarian, and one of Hudson's latest tweets is promising on that front. ^^

#24430
Guest_Meta Ray Mek_*

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Eradyn, while I respectfully disagree with you about DH (concerning the femTurian), you make a fair enough point.

On a personal level, I just feel the people who wanted M/M with Garrus should get it just as much as those of us who wanted FemShep/Garrus got our wish filled in ME2. If Garrus does end up being bi, I have full confidence his writer will do it in a fashion that doesn't seem woefully out of character.

Modifié par Meta Ray Mek, 15 mai 2011 - 11:08 .


#24431
AdmiralCheez

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Meta Ray Mek wrote...

If Garrus does end up being bi, I have full confidence his writer will do it in a fashion that doesn't seem woefully out of character.

Have to agree with this, since Garrus' writing has been godly so far, and Keener just NAILS his lines, so regardless of whether we get Gayrus or Brokarian, it will be glorious.

#24432
Obsydian

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i do have to add one thing re: DA2 everyone being bi... it made for some really funny banter when both Anders and Fenris want you, and fight over you.

i liked that. yay party banter.

also, i fully agree with you, Meta. completely.  cept i haven't read DH yet so my opinions on that ar not applicable.


EDIT:  i fear that this is going to turn into an ethical debat.

Modifié par Obsydian, 15 mai 2011 - 11:21 .


#24433
Eradyn

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Of course there should be party banter. :P Don't really want ME3 characters fighting over Shep, though. Sheesh, end of galactic life here, let's stop acting like pre-pubescent children and start acting like adult professionals.

#24434
CulturalGeekGirl

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Meta Ray Mek wrote...

Besides, I think the LGBT population deserve to have a bi love interest, even if it's Garrus. Believe it or not, there ARE gay fans of Garrus out there who want to romance Garrus with a male Shepard. They may not want to play as a Female Shepard for it and that's okay. Maybe they feel more comfortable playing a player character of their gender. And that's okay too.

And really, how should the way they play a game with a bi/gay Garrus affect how you play your game? If you're already romancing Garrus with a female Shepard, then voila! He's not bi in your game. If you're a dudebro, guess what? You can easily avoid any sort of romantic advancements if you just pay attention to the dialogue wheel (or if they enable a Dragon Age 2 system, any symbols that indicate a romance path).

It's not going to be that hard to avoid a gay/bi Garrus. But to say that the idea is "gross" and stuff is a huge insult to the gay gamers who've been wanting a M/M romance with him as much as the females among us -myself included- wanted a hetero romance with him from the very beginning of the franchise.

But that's only my opinion. I could be wrong.


One problem is that it has been that hard to avoid many, many relationships in Mass Effect, and some in other Bioware games too. There are a lot of people who DID NOT WANT to romance Kaidan in ME1 who had him showing up in their rooms that last night... awkwaaaaard. Same with Ash, and same with Liara. Then there's ME2, with "creepy-hitting-on-Jacob-during-casual-conversation" Shep, which almost nobody likes.

I'm not against Bi love interests, but I'm strongly for more careful romance/nonromance divisions, and fewer stealthromances of both genders. Increasing the number of people who are interested in my shep just increases the opportunity for ninjawkwardness.

I have two possible solutions for this: in the first one, there are LIs for all genders and orientations, but not every single romanceable character is available to every gender. You can "unlock" the "locked" romances with a dialogue tree or in-game switch, that makes every possible love interest available, but if you want to avoid the "harem" problem, you just keep it on the default. In this example, Miranda would be male only, Tali would be bi by default, and Samara would be female only by default, unless you switched your settings to unlock all the LIs.

Solution two is this: Early in the game, you get a dialogue tree where you can select from three responses: "I prefer men" "I prefer women" "gender doesn't matter" and "I consider relationships unprofessional." This dialogue either unlocks relationships of one gender, unlocks all the relationships, or locks all relationships keeping things "professional." 

My only problem with "everyone is bi" is that it also means "six people are hitting on you rather than three" and I found three people hitting on me almost too much. It's about sheer numbers, rather than gender issues.

While I intend on keeping a lot of my Garrus relationships brotastic, I don't want to deny anyone the glory that is a Garrusmance. So there should be some option for every LI that is available without modding, but I'm OK if they have to trigger something very specific (and difficult to do accidentally) in-game to access it.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 15 mai 2011 - 11:24 .


#24435
Collider

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Solution two is this: Early in the game, you get a dialogue tree where you can select from three responses: "I prefer men" "I prefer women" "gender doesn't matter" and "I consider relationships unprofessional." This dialogue either unlocks relationships of one gender, unlocks all the relationships, or locks all relationships keeping things "professional."

I prefer them not to do this, really. If they do things right (making romance triggers obvious, etc), they'll never really need anything such as this.

#24436
dannybates

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 The only reason why i'm uncomfortable is because when i think of romance i can't help but think of smut/sex/porn or whatever you want to call it :unsure:

#24437
AdmiralCheez

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Collider wrote...

Solution two is this: Early in the game, you get a dialogue tree where you can select from three responses: "I prefer men" "I prefer women" "gender doesn't matter" and "I consider relationships unprofessional." This dialogue either unlocks relationships of one gender, unlocks all the relationships, or locks all relationships keeping things "professional."

I prefer them not to do this, really. If they do things right (making romance triggers obvious, etc), they'll never really need anything such as this.

THIS SO HARD.

#24438
Guest_mrsph_*

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Just hide the romance dialog.

They did it with Garrus in Mass Effect 2, they can do it again in 3.

#24439
ThatDancingTurian

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I would prefer clear romance triggers rather than some preference indicator as well, don't want another Jacob situation. Hopefully I won't have random people like Shiala hitting on me either if my FemShep is already established in a relationship with Garrus.

One thing that scares me though is the possibility of a romance reset so everyone will be on the same page, ME1 LIs, ME2 LIs, new players and old. Something that causes all the ME2 romances to think they're 'on a break' or to take a step back (likely the trial). I could see them doing this for the sake of game mechanics, and I reeeeeally don't want that to happen.

#24440
Lady Olivia

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Hi all. I have a noob question...

Eradyn wrote...

DH's repeated butchering of the ME universe and its characters is proof enough they aren't a reliable source for anything, while I would place far more weight on the information revealed in-game as that is established and controlled directly by BW.


What's DH?

#24441
CulturalGeekGirl

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Collider wrote...

Solution
two is this: Early in the game, you get a dialogue tree where you can
select from three responses: "I prefer men" "I prefer women" "gender
doesn't matter" and "I consider relationships unprofessional." This
dialogue either unlocks relationships of one gender, unlocks all the
relationships, or locks all relationships keeping things "professional."

I prefer them not to do this, really. If they do
things right (making romance triggers obvious, etc), they'll never
really need anything such as this.

THIS SO HARD.

Blarg, now I feel bad for even mentioning that as a possibility. I'm just trying to think of a way to give S/S relationships access to the kind of open, flirty LIs that everyone else has access to. I want your LI to be able to hit on you first, without making everyone hit on you all the time.

The problem I have with hiding the romance dialogue is that they didn't do it in ME2, not well. And because it was "hidden" it was all or nothing, there was no way to sort of flirt at the beginning and then pull back, if you wanted to get to know someone better at all you had to trigger the romance.

I agree that a "choose your preferred gender" thing would be awkward, but I also prefer the idea that each LI has a pre-determined sexuality, with the ability to unlock the opposite romance if you want to. Then again, I think there should be a cannon S/S only relationship for both genders, so we're already not doing well for what I prefer.

But every single Love Interest other than Garrus lets you know they are interested before you initiate their romance. Every single one. They all flirt with Shepard, and while it's up to Shep whether or not to respond (in all cases except for Jacob), having six people all hot for my bod is stressful to me. I don't want this to become a mid 90s anime. I'm not Keitaro Urashima.

Basically I want some romances to be openly flirty (like Kaidan in ME1), some to be hidden (like Garrus in ME2), and some to be in-between (like Tali in ME2). And I want both genders to have access to both varieties of romance without it feeling like a harem anime where every single main character is inexplicably hot for the protagonist. I think there are several ways to make this possible, but there are a lot of potential pitfalls.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 12:13 .


#24442
Collider

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One thing that scares me though is the possibility of a romance reset so everyone will be on the same page, ME1 LIs, ME2 LIs, new players and old. Something that causes all the ME2 romances to think they're 'on a break' or to take a step back (likely the trial). I could see them doing this for the sake of game mechanics, and I reeeeeally don't want that to happen.

Yea, that's scary.
Really scary :?

I can understand why they did it in ME2, since it's the middle of the trilogy...but it's not really needed for the last installment.

#24443
Shadow_Soul

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Eradyn wrote...

Of course there should be party banter. :P Don't really want ME3 characters fighting over Shep, though. Sheesh, end of galactic life here, let's stop acting like pre-pubescent children and start acting like adult professionals.


^This. DA2 is one thing for figting over Hawke, but in ME3, the end of the galaxy is nearing and people would fight over Shep? That would be stupid. I mean, sure, get distracted in this war, you'll most likely end up dead.
And, thing is, Fenris and Anders sounded like they were just going to started a full fledged fight, then, there, but didn't. I get that. But that's also part of the character. So let's say Shepard romances Liara then dumps her for Garrus (which I have done) they don't seem like they'd start bickering like that, just out of character.
Just my thoughts though.

#24444
dannybates

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Lady Olivia wrote...

Hi all. I have a noob question...

Eradyn wrote...

DH's repeated butchering of the ME universe and its characters is proof enough they aren't a reliable source for anything, while I would place far more weight on the information revealed in-game as that is established and controlled directly by BW.


What's DH?


Darth Horse so i believe

Modifié par dannybates, 15 mai 2011 - 11:37 .


#24445
CulturalGeekGirl

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dannybates wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

Hi all. I have a noob question...

Eradyn wrote...

DH's repeated butchering of the ME universe and its characters is proof enough they aren't a reliable source for anything, while I would place far more weight on the information revealed in-game as that is established and controlled directly by BW.


What's DH?


Darth Hater so i believe


It's Dark Horse. They put out Mass Effect comics, and their drawings of characters and races have been criticized for being very inaccurate.

#24446
ThatDancingTurian

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Lady Olivia wrote...

What's DH?

Dark Horse, the publishers of the comic series. EDIT: :ph34r:

@Collider: I know. I hope it doesn't happen, but it just strikes me as something that might. If they want to make the 'cheating on your ME1 LI' decision difficult they might think that they have to level the playing field. Otherwise you have someone you've effectively been broken up with for two years vs. someone who you're already involved with and has been there for you. It's not a hard choice for a lot of us.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 15 mai 2011 - 11:39 .


#24447
dannybates

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I have all of the comics/books of mass effect and i think that around 50% of the stories on FanFiction.net is better

#24448
Obsydian

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....meh. the banter amused me. *shrug*

....also, the DA2 dialogue wheel with the symbols telling you what option you were picking seems like a pretty valid option.

but i've said my piece. *shrug* either way.i'm going to enjoy it. either way they do it some people will be unhappy about it. but how they do it is how they do it. i would like a bi-Garrus. but i would also like a million dollars. at the moment, both are about the same amount of out of reach.

#24449
Guest_michaelrsa_*

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So, we have informantion that some LIs will be expanded to be be for both sexes in ME3.

Image IPB

Imagine the awkwardness everyone else would experience if Garrus did this to MShep in ME3.

#24450
dannybates

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Just trying to put together a list of what i think the best stories are for FemShep and Garrus Romance on fanfiction.net

Not so fun fact: I have read only 1,469,585 words of FemShep/Garrus fanfic in just 4 days.