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[Eradyn]

Lady Olivia wrote...

Hi all. I have a noob question...

Eradyn wrote...

DH's repeated butchering of the ME universe and its characters is proof enough they aren't a reliable source for anything, while I would place far more weight on the information revealed in-game as that is established and controlled directly by BW.

What's DH?

I know people here will tell you it's Dark Horse...but in reality it's Derp Harder.





They're just being polite, really.

[Obsydian]

d'awww, that is adorable, michael. i would love that.

and danny... only 1,469,585? lol. that is crazy. i can't wait to see your list. i have a list a mile long of fics to read. that will make me happy.

and ....  wow. lol Derp Harder.  those are some damned silly pictures.  the krogan... lol  i giggle every time i see tat.

Modifié par Obsydian, 16 mai 2011 - 12:00 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Eradyn wrote...

Great time to cop a feel, Timmy.

[dannybates]

That is quite crazy since I have never read a book willingly in my life or even 50% of a book. If it's related to mass effect then I have probably have.

[Eradyn]

Obsydian wrote...

d'awww, that is adorable, michael. i would love that.

and danny... only 1,469,585? lol. that is crazy. i can't wait to see your list. i have a list a mile long of fics to read. that will make me happy.

and ....  wow. lol Derp Harder.  those are some damned silly pictures.  the krogan... lol  i giggle every time i see tat.

Would you believe me if I told you that is none other than our other lovable badass, Wrex? Yes.  That is the leader of the krogan.  Blood rage indeed.

[Obsydian]

lol. i read sooooo many books. i haven't read Evolution yet but I did read Redemption. i liked Redemption. but thats cause i like Faron. a lot.

eventually I will probably buy and read Evolution.... just cause i'm one of THOSE fangirls that likes to have everything.

i'm a sad panda.


EDIT .... I was gonna ask if that was Wrex.  But I didn't want to beileve that it could be. oh Wrex.  how the mighty have fallen.
and isn't that a flying Garrus?   further provign that he's a superhero in disguise. 

Modifié par Obsydian, 16 mai 2011 - 12:16 .

[Eradyn]

Obsydian wrote...

lol. i read sooooo many books. i haven't read Evolution yet but I did read Redemption. i liked Redemption. but thats cause i like Faron. a lot.

eventually I will probably buy and read Evolution.... just cause i'm one of THOSE fangirls that likes to have everything.

i'm a sad panda.


EDIT .... I was gonna ask if that was Wrex.  But I didn't want to beileve that it could be. oh Wrex.  how the mighty have fallen.
and isn't that a flying Garrus?   further provign that he's a superhero in disguise. 

Yes, that is also a flying/hovering Garrus, dual-wielding pistols. Also note the distinctly humanish body.

[Obsydian]

ooh. and the distinct lack of sexy leg spurs. hmm. perhaps it is someone pretending to be Garrus pretendnig to be a superhero?

my brain hurts. make the derpy-ness stop.

[Collider]

Oh lmao, Garrus & Tali dual wielding pistols?

[Vertigo_1]

Collider wrote...

Oh lmao, Garrus & Tali dual wielding pistols?

Dual Wielding is cooool!
Just look at Halo...

Also Miranda could originally dual wield pistols...

But yeah so many wrongs in that comic...Especially Derp Wrex

[Collider]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Great time to cop a feel, Timmy.

Modifié par Collider, 16 mai 2011 - 12:36 .

[Obsydian]

^^ *dies* Oh dear. TIM Rapeface. *headdesk* why does it happen!

dual wielding is amazing. a-mazing. i love dual wielding (which was almost welding. which would be nearly as cool)

[mhendon]

I think this is my first time actually posting here, so it would kinda feel wrong to create a first time post without saying how much Garrus Vakarian freaking rocks so:

Garrus Vakarian freaking rocks for many reasons that have been previously discussed by many people.

With that out of the way, I'd like to add my two cents for the bi Garrus discussion. I have mixed feelings about this. I love getting to romance Garrus, and I think every shep, male or female deserves this awesomeness. I wouldn't see it as being out of character either, as Garrus has the same feelings of respect for mshep that allowed him to be open to sex with femshep. Theres no reason it wouldn't work the other way. It would seem just as natural for mshep to suggest blowing off steam as it did for a femshep.

That said, I have worries about the way his character might be perceived if he were made a bi LI in ME3. Many Mass Effect players see Garrus as the ultimate bro, and those people definitely play a big part in Garrus being one of the most popular characters in the trilogy. That rapturous bromance might get thrown for a loop if a bromancer feels like their shep might be hitting on Garrus, or vice versa. Even if that feeling is an overreaction, or simply a misinterpretation, that doesn't change the possibility that the bromance could be damaged. Simply knowing that Garrus, in some canons, might possibly be interested in you romantically would feed a lot to those perceptions. No one can deny that friendships can be derailed by romantic feelings. Again, this is all based on perception. Different people will always see things differently.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if they are going to make Garrus bi, they need to be very careful about it, or not do it at all. I'm all for Garrus loving msheps, but I also care about bromancers. I want everyone to have a great experience with this character, and I don't want one group to suffer for the benefit of the other. That goes both ways...no pun intended. No pressure bioware writers.

I hope that made sense.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Collider wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Great time to cop a feel, Timmy.

*img*

ROFL. I literally jumped when this popped up, thanks.

[mellifera]

michaelrsa wrote...

So, we have informantion that some LIs will be expanded to be be for both sexes in ME3.



Imagine the awkwardness everyone else would experience if Garrus did this to MShep in ME3.

I would approve but Garrus has no lips so

[Eradyn]

mhendon wrote...

I think this is my first time actually posting here, so it would kinda feel wrong to create a first time post without saying how much Garrus Vakarian freaking rocks so:

Garrus Vakarian freaking rocks for many reasons that have been previously discussed by many people.

With that out of the way, I'd like to add my two cents for the bi Garrus discussion. I have mixed feelings about this. I love getting to romance Garrus, and I think every shep, male or female deserves this awesomeness. I wouldn't see it as being out of character either, as Garrus has the same feelings of respect for mshep that allowed him to be open to sex with femshep. Theres no reason it wouldn't work the other way. It would seem just as natural for mshep to suggest blowing off steam as it did for a femshep.

That said, I have worries about the way his character might be perceived if he were made a bi LI in ME3. Many Mass Effect players see Garrus as the ultimate bro, and those people definitely play a big part in Garrus being one of the most popular characters in the trilogy. That rapturous bromance might get thrown for a loop if a bromancer feels like their shep might be hitting on Garrus, or vice versa. Even if that feeling is an overreaction, or simply a misinterpretation, that doesn't change the possibility that the bromance could be damaged. Simply knowing that Garrus, in some canons, might possibly be interested in you romantically would feed a lot to those perceptions. No one can deny that friendships can be derailed by romantic feelings. Again, this is all based on perception. Different people will always see things differently.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if they are going to make Garrus bi, they need to be very careful about it, or not do it at all. I'm all for Garrus loving msheps, but I also care about bromancers. I want everyone to have a great experience with this character, and I don't want one group to suffer for the benefit of the other. That goes both ways...no pun intended. No pressure bioware writers.

I hope that made sense.

Very well put.  Garrus is perceived by many as the ultimate bro.  Assuming Garrus was one they would consider for that, they'd have to be very careful how they did this.  My preference is that they don't, but I won't go kicking and screaming if they do.  Unless they completely butcher it, at which point ME3 is where I and BW part ways anyway.

[Bolboreta]

Eradyn wrote...

Very well put.  Garrus is perceived by many as the ultimate bro.  Assuming Garrus was one they would consider for that, they'd have to be very careful how they did this.  My preference is that they don't, but I won't go kicking and screaming if they do.  Unless they completely butcher it, at which point ME3 is where I and BW part ways anyway.

Yes, those are my feelings too. I think Garrus is a bro for mShep and if they make him bi, maybe the paragon choices would lead to a romance that a lot of male players don't want. I hated when I was nice to Kaidan or Jacob and they thought I was flirting with them. If BW is going to do this, they need to improve the dialogue options a lot. 

I was also happy of having an embarrased cute friend as Tali is, talking about sharing suit enviroment with me without any sexual tension at all. I wouldn't like to stop being nice to her in ME3 just in case she thinks I'm flirting. 

I prefer BW didn't change former LI characters and I really like them to make some same sex romances only. It seems that every time they create a same sex romanceable character, it has to be bi. Why? 

[Brownfinger]

I enjoyed Evolution, I thought the art was a massive step up from their previous offerings. It was some nice insight into the Illusive Man, and it's bursting from every seam with Turians.

So, it's got that going for it.
I kinda get the impression that every Mass Effect story we get from now on released through any official channels will be in the recent or distant past, as well. What with the attempted intergalactic sodomy by the Reapers and the branching outcomes for players with no set canon. Which I'm fine with, really. Edit: The stories, I mean. Not the part about getting bummed by an ancient starship. That's not too cool.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 16 mai 2011 - 01:02 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Welcome, Mhendon!

I think we're all agreed that the main concern here is execution. The friendship with Garrus is at least as important as the romance, it's vital that they don't do anything to conflict with that for players who aren't interested in Garrus that way.

I think one thing that would help is if they made it impossible to start up another romance once you've 'locked in' with one, so to speak. That way if you choose an option to continue your romance from ME1 or ME2, you don't have to worry about unwanted flirting from either gender.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 16 mai 2011 - 01:05 .

[Bolboreta]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I think one thing that would help is if they made it impossible to start up another romance once you've 'locked in' with one, so to speak. That way if you choose an option to continue your romance from ME1 or ME2, you don't have to worry about unwanted flirting from either gender.

Maybe the heart thing from DA2 wouldn't be bad, if only works with romances. So, this way, everyone could avoid the unwanted flirting, or a James Bondshep could flirt with every single woman in the galaxy if he wants... The thing is, I like when the character I like flirts with me, but I hate when everyone flirts with me or I flirt with someone without wanting it, so BW should make them to stop that. Flirting should be a player's choice only and a well defined one.

Nevertheless, I still wouldn't like that they rewrite LIs to make them available for everyone. I like to replay the game and see other choices and I love to think about a character with a certain personality. Now, if they have changed in ME3, I will think that I didn't know them at all 

Modifié par Bolboreta, 16 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Bolboreta wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Very well put.  Garrus is perceived by many as the ultimate bro.  Assuming Garrus was one they would consider for that, they'd have to be very careful how they did this.  My preference is that they don't, but I won't go kicking and screaming if they do.  Unless they completely butcher it, at which point ME3 is where I and BW part ways anyway.

Yes, those are my feelings too. I think Garrus is a bro for mShep and if they make him bi, maybe the paragon choices would lead to a romance that a lot of male players don't want. I hated when I was nice to Kaidan or Jacob and they thought I was flirting with them. If BW is going to do this, they need to improve the dialogue options a lot. 

I was also happy of having an embarrased cute friend as Tali is, talking about sharing suit enviroment with me without any sexual tension at all. I wouldn't like to stop being nice to her in ME3 just in case she thinks I'm flirting. 

I prefer BW didn't change former LI characters and I really like them to make some same sex romances only. It seems that every time they create a same sex romanceable character, it has to be bi. Why?

I wrote something about this in another thread, and I'll reference and expand upon it here. I'm torn about this: I actually have a FemShep infiltrator whose playthrough I've never been able to finish, because in my headcannon she likes Tali. So I'm all for bi Tali, but I don't want her hitting on all Shepards in every game.

I talked about this a bit in another thread, and I'll reuse that example here: 
Here's how the dialogue for Tali could go down:
Tali: "Shepard, I've always mean to ask, how do humans... get to know each other? That is... what was your first kiss like"
Femshep options:
-Someone special
-They reminded me of you {flirt icon}
-None of your business

If you tell Tali that your first kiss reminded you of her, she'll be flirtier from then on. If you say "someone special" then you'll give her big-sisterly advice.   If you picked the flirt option, she'll have the "Interest" flag checked, but not the romance flag, yet. If you give either of the other responses, she won't flirt. Later, you'll have another dialogue with her if you've engaged flirty mode, where she'll outright ask you out, and you can say yes or turn her down.

It's very important not to put the flirt in the paragon spot all the time. That's a danger, I think.

The problem is, I'm having a bit of a harder time writing something like this for Garrus that feels natural. That's why I'd almost suggest letting Shepard have an option to have a conversation with a confidant (like Chakwas, Mordin, or Kasumi), where they express interest in various crewmembers. But maybe I just don't have a good enough grasp of how Garrus/Manshep conversations go. Presumably Bioware writers are better at writing both Manshep (who I totally do not get) and Garrus than I am. So hopefully they can come up with a version of this that will work.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 01:34 .

[TNT1991]

dannybates wrote...

Voice of Kosh wrote...

You know Garrus is the nerd right? Outcast of his society, socially awkward, superhero sense of justice. He even has the glasses in a way. Knew there was a reason that I found him attractive that was grounded in social norms.

I'mnormalItellyou!

Pfft no way he is a nerd 

When I first played ME1 I thought he was a nerd when I first saw him...but the tall, tough, and handsome kind. I liked that...

...but then I had a clear view of his face and I realized that those were his tatoos/markings on his face instead of some awesome looking, blue glasses. I felt like a retard after that. >.>;

[mhendon]

Thanks for the welcome! I agree that there should be a way to sort of disable some of the romances. Someone suggested a way of sort of declaring your shep's sexual preference, which would be difficult to do right, but I wouldn't be adverse to it. I also liked what Aris said about locking in a romance early on if you wanted to. I do not envy the people that have to figure these things out.

[RiotLaFontaine]

I'm REALLY hoping and pulling for Garrus to be an m/m option in ME3, but I do have some major concerns as to how it's handled, considering the above posts mentioning how Garrus is already perceived as the "Ultimate Bro." I don't want it damaging straight male gamer opinion of him, since it's a significant demographic - you need to make certain that people aren't going to be alienated in the process and that the growing support of the series and trust in BW is maintained.

DA2 handled the male romances somewhat well by adding transparency to the choices - flirtation was set aside and given a specific marker . At the same time, one or two flirtations led to little impact - it took, I believe, a third flirt to unlock the m/m romance option and even then it still required pursuit. This enables the player to make mistakes in choices and not wind up with the awkward romance found in ME1.

Likewise, if the "flirt" is player-initiated and not character-initiated, then the player is the one who gets to choose whether to develop a relationship that is "bro-fist" or "love." I would argue that the transparency of DA2's love symbol needs to be removed, but that the choice must be clearly flirtatious in wording - and again, if the player thinks it's a joke and selects it, the resulting scene response would be funny indeed, but they would then know not to continue walking down that path lest it turn into a romance.

This would have an additional effect: the canon sexuality of Garrus in that playthrough would not be bi by default (as it is in DA2 with Anders), but would be the sexuality conceived by player-choices. If you never flirt with him and only enact the bro-fist relationship, then for all purposes he's straight since he's not the one who enacts the relationship possibility; it's a possibility only generated by a gay male Shepard.

Additionally, I don't think he should reciprocate right away; it should be awkward at first since before this point he was effectively perceived as straight in his sexuality (though open to aliens). Although the first flirt would be awkward and one that he would immediately brush off, the second flirt would cause him to look inward: just what does his relationship with Shepard mean? Who is Shepard to him? How does he feel about humans? The third flirt could be a direct and final challenge along the lines of when femShep first suggested an inter-species relationship.

Just some brief thoughts.

[IccaRa]

Frankly, if someone freaks out over the possibility that a 'bro' might be hitting on them (ignoring the fact that ME romances are player-initiated), and this IRREVOCABLY DAMAGES THEIR PERCEPTION OF THE CHARACTER FOREVER!...

...their opinion isn't worth one damn to me.

I have no desire to coddle the thinly veiled homophobia of one player at the expense of a minority that has been left out and mistreated for far too long.