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[JeanLuc761]

For those of you that do not check out the official thread, I just released high resolution textures for Garrus (PC-only)



You can find the post here. I hope you enjoy!

[Chewin]

Gabriel the First wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...
Hmm. I just got a picture of Garrus with Freddy Mercury's mustache in my mind...

OMG:O

Someone that is good with photoshop should make one. That would be so awesome!!!


But anyway, this thread is too quite. Here's a Garrus & Mordin pic

Garrus has nice taste when it comes to reading books

@JeanLuc761 Nice work on those pics. Really love the texture

Modifié par Chewin3, 18 mai 2011 - 06:21 .

[Paragon Gabriel]

Chewin3 wrote...
Garrus has nice taste when it comes to reading books

Yup. Can't judge him for doing the right thing, sort of

[dannybates]

@Gabriel the First 
Awesome pic =D

Modifié par dannybates, 18 mai 2011 - 07:05 .

[Voice of Kosh]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before as I'm a relative newbie to the fandom. First I suppose I better make a disclaimer. *This discussion does not initially involve any naked turians*

Okay, now to continue.

In Mass Effect one while doing the Doctor Saleon mission I let Garrus kill him. I know he becomes hostile and you kill him either way but I really feel like he's evil and I'm happy to let Garrus follow his rash morale. However I never let him kill Sidonis. I don't think Sidonis is evil. Incredibly misguided, but he is basically killing himself over what happened and if you let him live he turns himself in for murder. This fits in really well with how I perceive the game. Garrus is always rash and sees killing someone as a very good way of solving a problem that he believes C - Sec or the Council will not deal with. He's so worried about the bad guy getting away and continuing to do evil deeds that he sees killing them as the best course of action. As you progress into Mass Effect 2 Garrus becomes more extreme and some see him as coming off the rails. So it works perfectly that my Shepard goes against him and will not let him kill Sidonis. I think it works perfectly for his character and how he grows and changes throughout the two games. And as a mostly paragon player I like that I can show Garrus what's happening to him. And as he is my love interest it makes our friendship and understanding even stronger. Plus I love the conversation afterwards. Greys, I can't deal with greys...

So how do you feel about these two decisions? If you kill Saleon do you kill Sidonis? Do you do neither or one of each and how do you think it affects the story?

[Obsydian]

oooh. good topic. And one that I tend to be 'conflicted' on as well. I always let him kill Saleon. That guy tortured people and doesn't deserve any sort of mercy. In fact, if I could, I'd have tortured him back.

Sidonis though. Thats such a hard one.There's a part of me that wants to let him kill Sidonis. But, I actually completely agree with Shepard. Sidonis is already dead, and will actually suffer more if he lives. I understand why Garrus wants to kill him... it makes perfect sense. But.... No, I agree with you Sidonis, while stupid, is not evil. He's a coward. He's dishonest, and completely dishonorable, which means that death would be too good for him (if you go by the Bushido/samurai code) .... he should fall upon his blade for his failures. However... letting him live is the worst punishment I belive that one can bestow on him. He can live with his shame and the knowledge that the better man let him live. (...well, he's a good man. eh, he's alright... (what can i say, I just watched Firefly)) So no, I nearly always let Sidonis live. I believe that killing him should almost be a Paragon option.

but thats just me. Also, I do really love the conversation afterwards. And I really really do think it strengthens both the friendship and the attraction.
I do hope that letting Sidonis live will have an effect on ME3.

[Chewin]

I basically agree with you 100%, Kosh.

But from my point of view, I see it this way when it comes to Sidonis. Garrus has fallen far by the time you meet him in ME2. He feels that he failed his team. He probably feels his team's spirit is disjointed until he can set things right again. He probably feels he failed as a leader for even allowing someone capable of betrayal to join his team. He doesn't know why Sidonis betrayed him, but the fact that a turian is even capable of such an act makes him the lowest of scum.
So now Shepard stands in between Garrus and his target. However, my Shepard is a curious Shepard, so of course I'm going to ask Sidonis why he did it. Turns out, his reasons are pretty cowardly for someone who was working on a team that put themselves in danger every day. Maybe he would have always done what he could to save his own skin if things turned bad for Garrus's group. Don't know the reasons why he joined Garrus in the first place, but he probably shouldn't have.

So Sidonis is a coward who was looking to save his own skin. He let ten people die, would have been eleven if Shepard hadn't come to Garrus's rescue. All to live in a cruel shadow of a life. For some people, making him continue this existence is a worse punishment than a hole in the head. But that's not why I wouldn't let Garrus shoot him.Garrus had been brought down low by what happened on Omega. His thoughts were consumed by what happened. Then, on the Citadel, he's presented with the source of all his troubling thoughts. I thought it was more important that Garrus look upon this man who had betrayed him, see how far Sidonis had fallen.

In the end, a paragon Shepard is either telling Garrus that Sidonis is already dead or that killing him won't bring back the ten who died. Shepard isn't standing between Garrus and Sidonis anymore. The decision was ultimately Garrus's, and he tells Sidonis to go.

Modifié par Chewin3, 18 mai 2011 - 07:54 .

[Bolboreta]

I don't like him to kill them, because I love to teach him to be a good boy. I have time enough to pervert him later, but with other matters 

[Voice of Kosh]

Obsydian wrote...

*snip*

but thats just me. Also, I do really love the conversation afterwards. And I really really do think it strengthens both the friendship and the attraction.
I do hope that letting Sidonis live will have an effect on ME3.

Me too, absolutely. The ME1 mission didn't affect anything other than a few dialogue options. I would be so nice to see all the loyalty missions have further repercussions.

Chewin3 wrote...

*snip*

 I thought it was more important that Garrus look upon this man who had betrayed him, see how far Sidonis had fallen.

In the end, a paragon Shepard is either telling Garrus that Sidonis is already dead or that killing him won't bring back the ten who died. Shepard isn't standing between Garrus and Sidonis anymore. The decision was ultimately Garrus's, and he tells Sidonis to go.

This is a really good way of looking at it. For Garrus to look at Sidonis and see how he could end up and make the choice not to. Like you said, at the end of the day it's Garrus who makes the decision. He doesn't tell Shepard it's up to him or in my case her. I really like that about the mission. I guess I might feel different if it was actually up to me...

[Surmansuuhun]

I don't let him kill Saleon or Sidonis because I play mostly 100% paragon (using most renegade interrupts, of course).
But besides wanting the blue bar full, I don't like the thought of Garrus going down that path. I try to bring out the good in him. I suppose a better way of thinking about it is that my Shepard doesn't want to kill people, but she knows sometimes people just need killing. So, while she will try as hard as she can to save someone or give them a second chance for redemption, she is not afraid to pull the trigger if it comes down to it. That's another reason why she keeps Garrus around. He gives her the ability to wait till the last second before dealing death. She knows he'll make sure the job gets done should things not go the way she wants. Because of him, she can try to save bad people from themselves. If they can't be saved, she and Garrus will bring the fury.
I don't know if that made sense.
I think she'll let him kill Saleon since she's going to kill the scientist that killed her squad (sole-survivor).

Edit: I also forgot to mention that the more you kill, the more desensitized you are to it. It's different in combat where it's kill or be killed, but executing someone, despite their crimes, is going to impact you in a big way. She'd rather he didn't learn to enjoy that sort of killing. She wants to preserve the goodness in him.

Modifié par Surmansuuhun, 18 mai 2011 - 08:32 .

[RestARose13]

For the Saleon situation, it was more about teaching Garrus something then bringing the doctor to justice.  I usually do the paragon route mostly because of the extra dialogue of "you never know how other people will react, but you can control your own actions" or something along those lines.  Also, when you talk to Garrus on the ship afterwards, he admits that he wanted to pursue Saleon not so much for justice anymore, but because the doctor had wounded Garrus' pride.

For the Sidonis situation, I agree that even after finding out the Sidonis is suffereing for what he has done and everything, Garrus could have still shot him but he doesn't.  For my Main Shep, she once again does it more for Garrus then for Sidonis.  She sees that Garrus is darker and harsher then before, his own ideals are being corrupted and twisted by his state of mind. Letting Sidonis live is just a way of saving Garrus from himself, not so much for a more proper punishment for Sidonis.

And I loved the Firefly quote earlier.  Wonderfully appropriate.

And now I have to hurry to get ready for work.

[outmane]

Voice of Kosh wrote...

Obsydian wrote...

*snip*

but thats just me. Also, I do really love the conversation afterwards. And I really really do think it strengthens both the friendship and the attraction.
I do hope that letting Sidonis live will have an effect on ME3.

Me too, absolutely. The ME1 mission didn't affect anything other than a few dialogue options. I would be so nice to see all the loyalty missions have further repercussions.

Id be suprised if they get to write "2 personalities" (i dont know how else to put it) for Garrus but i could totaly see the game giving special dialogue options to players depending on that choice. Foir exemple, if Garrus is gonna crash something in a big city to stop a reaper, killing millions in the process, you get the chance to convince hime to do it/ not so it by remembering him about sidonis and the importance of taking the shot/ letting him go. A little like the star icon dialogue choices you get in DA2 that are specific to things the game track.

As for killing Saleon and Sidonis i would personnaly discourage him to do kill either. when you start being judge and party, it never ends where you want it to. But, my canonShep is a sole survivor who witnessed Mindoir burn under the slaver attack. Shes paragon because its her job - saving the world is serious business - but she is ok with personal revenge against bad guys, because she understand how much losing everyting hurts (she did kill the cerberus researchers who got her unit killed). I think she admires Garrus for being able to see things in black and white and sleep well about it where she has to always be the more mature one and see things in grey. Its tireing her alot.

It seems my paragon Shep tends to become more renegade after 2 games and my renegade one tends to become more paragon... anyone else has that? Or you guys just choose all paragon/renengade options all the time ?

[SailorVega]

I posted this thought much earlier in the thread, but I'm not so sure it's unusual for turians to think in this way. They're not human, and that makes it difficult to truly discern when Garrus is going over the line, and when it's just a case of turians being turians. Remember they are heavily military also, and it seems that military organizations (and not just the humans) have more strict codes of conduct than civilians. I really think that trying to force Garrus to see your way is like trying to 'humanize' him. I'm re-playing ME 1 with a goody-goody, just to see how Garrus reacts to you straight-line paragoning him. I get annoyed every time. Then again, I'm jaded and I keep thinking how awesome a Boondock Saint Garrus would be.

[Voice of Kosh]

I play how I feel like at the time.

Most of the time it is paragon because I guess essentially I'm a good person. But if someone really gets under my skin... the renegade shows.

That's why I only have one play through. I don't really role play Mass Effect I play it as if I were Shepard and what would I do in the situation.

[RunicDragons]

Voice of Kosh wrote...

I play how I feel like at the time.

Most of the time it is paragon because I guess essentially I'm a good person. But if someone really gets under my skin... the renegade shows.

That's why I only have one play through. I don't really role play Mass Effect I play it as if I were Shepard and what would I do in the situation.

Same here, I always choose the choises that are right in my eyes. Most of them are Paragon but some, Renegade. 

[outmane]

Surmansuuhun wrote...

 I suppose a better way of thinking about it is that my Shepard doesn't want to kill people, but she knows sometimes people just need killing. So, while she will try as hard as she can to save someone or give them a second chance for redemption, she is not afraid to pull the trigger if it comes down to it. That's another reason why she keeps Garrus around. He gives her the ability to wait till the last second before dealing death. She knows he'll make sure the job gets done should things not go the way she wants. Because of him, she can try to save bad people from themselves. If they can't be saved, she and Garrus will bring the fury.

Oh and i so agree with that... Garrus is the best option for my paragon shep because having him there lets her be all diplomatic and helping knowing that his got her back. In ME1 she got tired of Kaidan because he was always agreeing with her to be cautious and that was not helping make things happen. Now my renegade Shep misses Kaidan oh so much cause shes got no one to make her stop and think before pulling the trigger. And thats not something Garrus will make her do, even if he is her most loyal friend.

[ElectricZ]

Voice of Kosh wrote...

So how do you feel about these two decisions? If you kill Saleon do you kill Sidonis? Do you do neither or one of each and how do you think it affects the story?

Saleon was a no-brainer. Pop-pop-poppity-pop, goodbye Dr. Death.

I was sort of conflicted about Sidonis, but I looked at it like this: Garrus, through ME1 and all the time in ME2 did what I asked, without judgment or hesitation, regardless of the morality of the decisions I was making. That was Mostly Paragon, but still had I gone Red he would have backed me up regardless.

When it came to Sidonis, I wasn't going to second-guess him. Garrus had my respect as a soldier and a friend, so he knew what he needed to be done. I know if any of my squad sold us out and gotten the rest of them killed, I wouldn't rest until I got the traitor.

He wasn't following me on my mission for this. I was following him. It was my turn to "be there" when he needed me.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 18 mai 2011 - 09:21 .

[Voice of Kosh]

ElectricZ wrote...

Voice of Kosh wrote...

So how do you feel about these two decisions? If you kill Saleon do you kill Sidonis? Do you do neither or one of each and how do you think it affects the story?

Saleon was a no-brainer. Pop-pop-poppity-pop, goodbye Dr. Death.

I was sort of conflicted about Sidonis, but I looked at it like this: Garrus, through ME1 and all the time in ME2 did what I asked, without judgment or hesitation, regardless of the morality of the decisions I was making. That was Mostly Paragon, but still had I gone Red he would have backed me up regardless.

When it came to Sidonis, I wasn't going to second-guess him. Garrus had my respect as a soldier and a friend, so he knew what he needed to be done. I know if any of my squad sold us out and gotten the rest of them killed, I wouldn't rest until I got the traitor.

He wasn't following me on my mission for this. I was following him. It was my turn to "be there" when he needed me.

But do you not think that this could cause him to go further into ruin? That by letting Sidonis live you actually help Garrus heal more? Or do you think that as a turian and a soldier he knows when to draw the line?

Just curious.

[outmane]

ElectricZ wrote...

He wasn't following me on my mission for this. I was following him. It was my turn to "be there" when he needed me.

You my friend are a real bro 

Modifié par outmane, 18 mai 2011 - 09:30 .

[Lady Olivia]

Obsydian wrote...

Shepard/Nihlus.    seriously. its amazing. 

Thanks for recommending this. It really is amazing. Beats the official game novels in every aspect, from characterization and humor and buildup of emotions to tech-talk and action sequences. Hats off to the author.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I assume you guys have seen this, right?

@CaseyDHudson wrote...

"@shadowdragon20 We've confirmed James, Liara, Ash/Kaidan, Garrus, and Tali as squad members / main chars in #ME3. More to reveal though."

Just in case anyone had any lingering doubts considering the misinformation being spread in magazines (such as the 'no new LIs' thing).

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 18 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[Surmansuuhun]

Thanks, Aris. It's good to see it from Casey's mouth, er, twitter.

[outmane]

Voice of Kosh wrote...

But do you not think that this could cause him to go further into ruin? That by letting Sidonis live you actually help Garrus heal more? Or do you think that as a turian and a soldier he knows when to draw the line?

Just curious.

a good question... its so hard to say what would help him. After all paragonizing him in ME1 still lead him to Omega... 

Letting him kill Sidonis is certainly a big risk. Maybe it goes to how confidant you are that hes doing it for the right reasons and that he can handle it.

[dannybates]

 I have just discovered the best mass effect fanfic.

This series by Ms Morpheus is truly the best stories i have ever read. 

If you do not read these stories then you are missing somthing that is amazing to read and to think about.

From the Ashes - Prequel to 'Metamorphosis'.

Metamorphosis - Sequel to 'From the Ashes'.

Modifié par dannybates, 18 mai 2011 - 11:28 .

[ElectricZ]

Voice of Kosh wrote...

But do you not think that this could cause him to go further into ruin? That by letting Sidonis live you actually help Garrus heal more? Or do you think that as a turian and a soldier he knows when to draw the line?

Just curious.

Sure I was worried about whether or not this would harm Garrus. I took every paragon response while in the car waiting to set up the hit. I stood there and listened to Sidonis explain himself while Garrus barked at me to get out of the way. In the end, I stepped aside.

Aside from the fact that Garrus has the most finely honed sense of justice of anybody in the game, he's killed dozens, maybe hundreds of people in his journeys with and without Shepard. This wasn't the first time he's taken a life -- he knows the consequences of pulling the trigger. Was he too close to think objectively? Maybe -- but just hearing what Sidonis had done to my virtual friend, I thought he deserved to die.

So in my view, this actually helped Garrus because it gave him closure, and a sense that he was able to be there for his squad when was unable to be there before.

I honestly sat there and sweated it out, but in the end, it boiled down to what I said before. Garrus had made the decision to kill Sidonis. I backed him up. I'd have bought him a bottle afterwards and let him spill his guts, and if he thought he made the wrong decision I would have helped him through it without judging him because I understood completely what he was thinking.

But I think for someone who is so focused on justice, Sidonis was just another notch on his rifle stock and a burn mark on his visor. As his friend, my Shep felt the need to respect that, and reciprocate for all the times he did the same.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 18 mai 2011 - 11:33 .