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[Leonia]

Trust Garrus to be the voice of reason on Legion's loyalty.. which is ironic, given his aversion to shades of grey.

[JeffZero]

leonia42 wrote...

Trust Garrus to be the voice of reason on Legion's loyalty.. which is ironic, given his aversion to shades of grey.

He's all over the place like that. In a good way, anyway.

[magenator]

I paragoned Garrus durining his loyalty missions. It was more about showing him a diferent perspective than lecturing him or forcing him to be paragon.

Edit: Oh and also squeee

Modifié par magenator, 19 mai 2011 - 10:55 .

[dannybates]

@Platform_Error

Have you read the full story?

Do you think it's you're favorite?

[dannybates]

I'm currently adding a Genre and Age rating to each story in the spreadsheet.

[Lady Olivia]

I didn't let Garrus kill Saleon; someone said it already - it was an obvious opportunity to teach him a lesson. A no-brainer.

But with Sidonis... to be perfectly honest, my instinct was to absolutely let Garrus kill him. It's what I'd do in his shoes. We're given nothing, nothing, to make us take pity on Sidonis, no mitigating circumstance, no justification. It was such a letdown, learning his only motive was to save his neck. I expected rivalry, jealousy, greed... something. How did you end up recruiting a coward in the first place, Garrus?

Can't shake the feeling there had to be more to it, stuffs that got cut out for being too complicated.

Anyway, I ended up talking Garrus down. Because I'm a content-**** and there's more dialog to be had that way. Pathetic, but there it is.
 

[Bolboreta]

Garrus always gives the renegade option when Shepard has to choose, only if there's not a more renegade than him in the team. Don't you think it would have been great if that had changed after the choice in his loyalty mission? Killing Sidonis could have made him the most renegade of the crew and letting him alive could have increase his "paragonism" and changed his point of view from that moment to the end of the game.

Well, maybe it's a silly idea, but I really hope that's what happen in ME3.

[Obsydian]

JeffZero wrote...

XD

End of the day, I think the bottom line is that I find Garrus' loyalty mission in ME2 to be one of the most intriguing and frustrating. This is a dangerous chemical combination if ever there were one, but the end result is oddly satisfying.

The only other choice I feel as conflicted by is Legion's.

OMG. Legion's mission. I've sat and stared at my tv for so long just debating what to do to the geth. Doesn't help that I absolutely adore Legion. 

Also, Jeff, you deserve that +infinity.   that song is so awesome.  

and why is it that i go to sleep and everyone ends up in Palaven.

edit:   ok.  so this lady who does these awesome manips.  well. there are no words. 

Modifié par Obsydian, 19 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Lady Olivia wrote...

I didn't let Garrus kill Saleon; someone said it already - it was an obvious opportunity to teach him a lesson. A no-brainer.

But with Sidonis... to be perfectly honest, my instinct was to absolutely let Garrus kill him. It's what I'd do in his shoes. We're given nothing, nothing, to make us take pity on Sidonis, no mitigating circumstance, no justification. It was such a letdown, learning his only motive was to save his neck. I expected rivalry, jealousy, greed... something. How did you end up recruiting a coward in the first place, Garrus?

Can't shake the feeling there had to be more to it, stuffs that got cut out for being too complicated.

Anyway, I ended up talking Garrus down. Because I'm a content-**** and there's more dialog to be had that way. Pathetic, but there it is.
 

I thought it was realistic. Some people want to play the hero but in the end they just can't cut it. I thought it was very human. Usually in media 'the coward' ends up being a snake that turns on anyone at any time, betraying multiple times not just for survival but for self-interest. Rather than what Sidonis was; a kid that just got in over his head, got scared, and made a horrible mistake that he'll never be able to take back.

Look at all the people who muse about how they'd survive in a zombie apocalypse. How many of them do you think really have what it takes to go through that?

Cowardice is considered a cardinal sin in games like these, but it's the most human of all flaws. We want to believe we're better and stronger than we are, but few people have the kind of courage to be heroes, which is why heroes are so extraordinary.

[AdmiralCheez]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Cowardice is considered a cardinal sin in games like these, but it's the most human of all flaws. We want to believe we're better and stronger than we are, but few people have the kind of courage to be heroes, which is why heroes are so extraordinary.

Requoted for justice.

[outmane]

Is it me or ppl always feel like they have to teach Garrus something... i know thats how his character arc is written but still, i like to see him as his own man, able to make his own choice and fallow his own morale.

We  wonder if killing Sidonis will put him on a darker path but what if saving him made Garrus all stuck up and unsure of himself again ? Just saying both sides could have bad consequences (not that i hope for any).

Its fun to see how his loyalty mission gets so much attention. We dont see ppl discussing the impacts of how Jacob handing a gun to his father so hed kill himself  will affect his character.
Garrus is just much more interessant... if only we could have a glimpse of abs too !


Some of you were talking about mirnada earlier. Im sad i didnt manage to get her kill but shes unloyal in my canon playthrough. Hopefully it has an impact in M3... if she gets to betray me, i kill her! Unless garrus decides to stop me cause shes not that evil... Would be funny to have him throw back some paragon speech at a time like that 

[Leonia]

That's a good point, outmane, something to consider. I don't feel like my Shepard has any right to teach anyone anything, she's made some bad mistakes in her past and the last thing she needs is some sort of prodigy looking up to her at every turn for guidance.

It is interesting how the topic keeps coming up. Earlier I was trying to think of other companions that Shepard has so much influence over and I was really drawing a blank. I'd expect Tali to look up to Shepard in a similar way as Garrus but she seems fairly self-sufficient once her Pilgrimage is over (and even in ME1, she was pretty tough for someone her age). Liara isn't really influenced by Shepard.. her personality changes regardless of interaction. Virmire Survivor.. eh I can't remember either showing indication of being influenced. And none of the ME2 cast really stands out in that regard.

Is Garrus the only companion that can be nudged in the paragon/renegade direction of the player's choosing?

[Collider]

Is Garrus the only companion that can be nudged in the paragon/renegade direction of the player's choosing?

No. Kaidan and Ashley can be nudged in ME1 during their romance.
I don't know if this will actually count for ME3 though, because there is no difference in ME2. Ashley always say she's "no fan of aliens," for example. It's possible that paragon/renegading Ashley/Kaidan isn't even recorded in the save import file.

Modifié par Collider, 19 mai 2011 - 03:43 .

[Chewin]

outmane wrote...
Is it me or ppl always feel like they have to teach Garrus something... i know thats how his character arc is written but still, i like to see him as his own man, able to make his own choice and fallow his own morale.

Shepard and Garrus' relationship is one of mentor and protegé, respectively, as Garrus usually seeks out Shepard's advice and opinions regarding missions and always follows Shepard's example. And I really like it this way. It builds up Garrus's character and his relationship with Shepard.

[jamesp81]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Cowardice is considered a cardinal sin in games like these, but it's the most human of all flaws. We want to believe we're better and stronger than we are, but few people have the kind of courage to be heroes, which is why heroes are so extraordinary.

Requoted for justice.

You know what really sets heroes apart from cowards, I think?

Heroes just don't think about the possible consequences.  You could end up dead, maimed, tortured, or any number of bad things.  I think heroes just don't think about those things and, thus, don't worry about them.  If they did, they might be be able to bring themselves to great heights of heroic action.

[AdmiralCheez]

outmane wrote...

Is it me or ppl always feel like they have to teach Garrus something... i know thats how his character arc is written but still, i like to see him as his own man, able to make his own choice and fallow his own morale.

I'm one of those horrible people that tries to mother everyone, so I can't help myself.  I'm sure I pissed of Wrex and Miranda in that regard.

Wrex: And then my father and his men betrayed me, so I killed them.

Shep: That's terrible!  Here, you know what?  I'm going to make you some tea and we can talk about this more if you want to.

Wrex: I'm over twenty times older than you, Shepard. B|

Shep: You're never too old for tea!

Wrex: Can't believe I'm following this dipsh*t...

Anyway, one of the things I look forward to seeing in ME3 is for Garrus to finally come into his own.  He is soooo close to being fully realized as a character.

I also want him to tell Shepard to suck it next time they disagree.

We  wonder if killing Sidonis will put him on a darker path but what if saving him made Garrus all stuck up and unsure of himself again ? Just saying both sides could have bad consequences (not that i hope for any).

Of course.  Personally, I'd rather have an uncertain Garrus since he'd think more before he acted.

Its fun to see how his loyalty mission gets so much attention. We dont see ppl discussing the impacts of how Jacob handing a gun to his father so hed kill himself  will affect his character.
Garrus is just much more interessant... if only we could have a glimpse of abs too !

Garrus has a lot of things under his shirt, but a six pack is not one of them.

Some of you were talking about mirnada earlier. Im sad i didnt manage to get her kill but shes unloyal in my canon playthrough. Hopefully it has an impact in M3... if she gets to betray me, i kill her! Unless garrus decides to stop me cause shes not that evil... Would be funny to have him throw back some paragon speech at a time like that

I like Miranda.

[Surmansuuhun]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I also want him to tell Shepard to suck it next time they disagree.

As long as she doesn't...ingest.

But, yeah. I really want to see a Garrus stand up to Shepard. Something other than "Whatever you say, Commander."

Shepard: "Ok, that evil, murdering f***head has something that we need. I'm going to talk him into giving it to us, but he'll mostly likely try and kill us all since that's his way. Garrus, make sure no one attacks him."
Garrus: "Yeah, I'm not doing that."
Shepard: "What do you mean? We need the thing-"
Garrus: *Scopes and drops* Looks at Shepard.
Shepard stands there like a dope.
Garrus: "What are you waiting for? Get the thing."
Shepard head shake.

[Leonia]

Surmansuuhun wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I also want him to tell Shepard to suck it next time they disagree.

As long as she doesn't...ingest.

But, yeah. I really want to see a Garrus stand up to Shepard. Something other than "Whatever you say, Commander."

Shepard: "Ok, that evil, murdering f***head has something that we need. I'm going to talk him into giving it to us, but he'll mostly likely try and kill us all since that's his way. Garrus, make sure no one attacks him."
Garrus: "Yeah, I'm not doing that."
Shepard: "What do you mean? We need the thing-"
Garrus: *Scopes and drops* Looks at Shepard.
Shepard stands there like a dope.
Garrus: "What are you waiting for? Get the thing."
Shepard head shake.

Heh, I saw that in my head as the sequence in ME1 where Wrex kills Fist but instead it's Garrus. Which is funny, considering how angry he gets at Wrex for killing Fist in cold blood. Ah how the years have changed his perspective..

But yes, a scene of this sort should be there some where.

[Voice of Kosh]

Bolboreta wrote...

Garrus always gives the renegade option when Shepard has to choose, only if there's not a more renegade than him in the team. Don't you think it would have been great if that had changed after the choice in his loyalty mission? Killing Sidonis could have made him the most renegade of the crew and letting him alive could have increase his "paragonism" and changed his point of view from that moment to the end of the game.

Well, maybe it's a silly idea, but I really hope that's what happen in ME3.

That is such an awesome idea!

Someone should tweet it to Casey. I've sent him a couple of legitimate messages and not had one reply so far. (I just wanted to know if they could make your original squad talk on the ME3 DLC...)

[outmane]

the protege relationship with Garrus does indeed create a strong link between the characters, wether you go the tough love way or toughtful teacher way. Its nice to se he was written well enough that both paths seem very realistic and they both have that enticing little something. To compare, id say Jacks romance  lacks that subtle pacing you have with Garrus.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I'm one of those horrible people that tries to mother everyone, so I can't help myself. 

Wel im a teacher myself irl. The tought of getting involved with someone i have a teacher/materning relationship with is slightly vomit-inducing to me... just a professionnal reflex i guess  . That might explain why i prefer not molding Garrus too much. thanks for making me think about that.

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Garrus has a lot of things under his shirt, but a six pack is not one of them.
 

I think i wanted to wrote pecs... that thing Garrus has between his large and handsome shoulders.  Does that make more sense to english speakers ?

Modifié par outmane, 19 mai 2011 - 06:31 .

[Obsydian]

jamesp81 wrote...


You know what really sets heroes apart from cowards, I think?

Heroes just don't think about the possible consequences.  You could end up dead, maimed, tortured, or any number of bad things.  I think heroes just don't think about those things and, thus, don't worry about them.  If they did, they might be be able to bring themselves to great heights of heroic action.

i dont think this is true at all. I think a hero is someone who knows the consequences and yet does what is necessary regardless of personal harm. Look at the military. Each and every one of those boys knows what they're getting into, and yet they do it anyway. They go over to the scariest places on Earth and get shot at, blown up, etc simply because its the right thing to do.  Obviously this is not true of everyone ... but a lot of them.
I think that makes a hero. 

Surmansuuhun wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I also want him to tell Shepard to suck it next time they disagree.

As long as she doesn't...ingest.

But, yeah. I really want to see a Garrus stand up to Shepard. Something other than "Whatever you say, Commander."

Shepard: "Ok, that evil, murdering f***head has something that we need. I'm going to talk him into giving it to us, but he'll mostly likely try and kill us all since that's his way. Garrus, make sure no one attacks him."
Garrus: "Yeah, I'm not doing that."
Shepard: "What do you mean? We need the thing-"
Garrus: *Scopes and drops* Looks at Shepard.
Shepard stands there like a dope.
Garrus: "What are you waiting for? Get the thing."
Shepard head shake.

this causes much LOL'ing.    very much.

also, i really dislike Miri.  not cause she "evil"  or Cerberus.. but because she thinks that she's amazing.  because she assumes that she's going to be second to Shepard no matter what.  And most importantly, i dislike her cause she yelled at my Joker when he saved the ship. ya know.... That took some serious guts. I can't see her doing it. So yeah. I dislike Miri.  Btu ... no disrespect to all of you who like her. Each to their own, ya know?

[Wulfram]

I don't feel Shepard takes away the choice from Garrus in the loyalty mission. Garrus just has to listen to the case for the defence before carrying out the execution.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't feel Shepard takes away the choice from Garrus in the loyalty mission. Garrus just has to listen to the case for the defence before carrying out the execution.

Yeah, he's the one that puts the gun down and tells Sidonis to go.

If he really wanted to, he could have taken the shot, anyway.  He's stubborn as hell.

[Obsydian]

tis a very true fact. I think that Garrus knows that he really shouldn't shoot Sidonis.. its just rediculously hard not to want that vengance so badly.

[Surmansuuhun]

AdmiralCheez wrote...


If he really wanted to, he could have taken the shot, anyway.  He's stubborn as hell.

True. He took the shot with Dr. Michel perilously close.
It also makes me smile a bit that he probably could have taken the shot but didn't want to risk Shepard.