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Calibrations: Garrus Love and Turian Discussion


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#24851
Lady Olivia

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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Lady Olivia wrote...

I didn't let Garrus kill Saleon; someone said it already - it was an obvious opportunity to teach him a lesson. A no-brainer.

But with Sidonis... to be perfectly honest, my instinct was to absolutely let Garrus kill him. It's what I'd do in his shoes. We're given nothing, nothing, to make us take pity on Sidonis, no mitigating circumstance, no justification. It was such a letdown, learning his only motive was to save his neck. I expected rivalry, jealousy, greed... something. How did you end up recruiting a coward in the first place, Garrus?

Can't shake the feeling there had to be more to it, stuffs that got cut out for being too complicated.

Anyway, I ended up talking Garrus down. Because I'm a content-**** and there's more dialog to be had that way. Pathetic, but there it is.
 

I thought it was realistic. Some people want to play the hero but in the end they just can't cut it. I thought it was very human. Usually in media 'the coward' ends up being a snake that turns on anyone at any time, betraying multiple times not just for survival but for self-interest. Rather than what Sidonis was; a kid that just got in over his head, got scared, and made a horrible mistake that he'll never be able to take back.

Look at all the people who muse about how they'd survive in a zombie apocalypse. How many of them do you think really have what it takes to go through that?

Cowardice is considered a cardinal sin in games like these, but it's the most human of all flaws. We want to believe we're better and stronger than we are, but few people have the kind of courage to be heroes, which is why heroes are so extraordinary.


Fair points. I also thought the explanation - the cowardice - was simple, elegant, down to earth. Realistic, if lacking in texture.

But how do you explain that Garrus didn't see it and recognize it? He'd served in the military, been in battles, he's an ex cop, for crying out loud. Of all people, he should know a coward when he sees one. So either we settle for a Garrus who's a lousy judge of character (which I don't buy), or a Garrus who trusted a coward with his life and the lives of his team (which I might buy if Sidonis was, say, his brother, or a childhood friend, or something worth the risk), or there was more than cowardice to the betrayal (which is my preference, but obviously there's nothing to back it up).

#24852
Wulfram

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Sidonis was probably perfectly brave in battle. Different when you've got a gun to your head.

#24853
outmane

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 @Olivia
Sidonis does say <i had problems of my own> so im pretty much with you on the fact that it might be more then cowardice. Maybe the mercs threatened his family ?



Also even if if dont stop Garrus most of the time, i do like that even if the paragon paraphrase is something like <dont do it Garrus> thats never what Shep actually says.The choice is still all Garrus. What ever side you choose express lots of trust in Garrus either that he wont shoot when youre in front or that you trust he knows what hes doing. Both are good in my book.

#24854
Surmansuuhun

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Lady Olivia wrote...

[But how do you explain that Garrus didn't see it and recognize it? He'd served in the military, been in battles, he's an ex cop, for crying out loud. Of all people, he should know a coward when he sees one. So either we settle for a Garrus who's a lousy judge of character (which I don't buy), or a Garrus who trusted a coward with his life and the lives of his team (which I might buy if Sidonis was, say, his brother, or a childhood friend, or something worth the risk), or there was more than cowardice to the betrayal (which is my preference, but obviously there's nothing to back it up).

Sidonis may not have known he'd be a coward. When you're in a group with a common cause (and a lot of firepower), you feel safe. When he got isolated and threatened, he cracked. How can you know how you'd truly act in that situation unless actually faced with that situation? To bring up a biblical example, when Peter told Jesus he would never deny him, but totally caved for fear of sharing the same fate. Peter believed he would never deny his leader, but he did when faced with danger. I also like the Zombie Apocalypse explaination. People boast how they'll survive Z-day, but when faced with an actual Zombie hoarde, many will probably wet their pants and run away instead of blowing undead heads off with a shotgun. If Sidonis truly believed he would be strong in the face of danger, why would Garrus have any cause to doubt him?

#24855
Obsydian

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Wulfram wrote...

Sidonis was probably perfectly brave in battle. Different when you've got a gun to your head.



very true.  Also, easy to be brave when surrounded by your mates.   harder still if your family is being threatened.   there are different levels of cowardice.

#24856
Lady Olivia

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@Surma

Bible and Zombie Epocalipse? I like it. :)

Of course you're right - it's not the same type of cowardice. But I still think Garrus would have recognized it - whatever the type. Think of how he speaks about whatshisname.... Harkin?

#24857
ElectricZ

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Sidonis was a coward no matter how you cut it. His act of betrayal may have been coerced, and you could make the argument he made a bad decision at that time, but his reaction to the mess HE created is an indicator just as much as anything.

At no point did he try to alert Garrus once he found out what happened to keep him from falling into the ambush. Nor did he try to help Garrus out when he became trapped. Instead, he ran away and tried to erase his past and disappear so he wouldn't have to face repercussions of any sort, leaving his former leader to face the wrath of Omega all alone. Think about that -- Sidonis left our boy Garrus to swing and take a rocket in the face. How do you feel about him now?

Sidonis was probably perfectly brave in battle. Different when you've got a gun to your head.

Which was, incidentally, the only way Sidonis was able to apologize to Garrus -- when he had a gun aimed at his head. Seems to be the only way the guy could be convinced do anything. ;)

Garrus had every right to take revenge, IMHO.

Modifié par ElectricZ, 19 mai 2011 - 08:06 .


#24858
dannybates

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 SEX!

Image IPB


Artist

Modifié par dannybates, 19 mai 2011 - 09:24 .


#24859
Lady Olivia

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Since we're kinda talking about Archangel, I have some questions.

We know the names of his team-mates, but do we know which name belongs to which race? Is there some established fanon about this?

Are there some good and/or popular fanfics about putting the team together, their adventures, their ending?
 

#24860
RunicDragons

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@Dannybates: Wow.. Awesomeness!!

#24861
RunicDragons

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Surmansuuhun wrote...
Sidonis may not have known he'd be a coward. When you're in a group with a common cause (and a lot of firepower), you feel safe. When he got isolated and threatened, he cracked. How can you know how you'd truly act in that situation unless actually faced with that situation? To bring up a biblical example, when Peter told Jesus he would never deny him, but totally caved for fear of sharing the same fate. Peter believed he would never deny his leader, but he did when faced with danger. I also like the Zombie Apocalypse explaination. People boast how they'll survive Z-day, but when faced with an actual Zombie hoarde, many will probably wet their pants and run away instead of blowing undead heads off with a shotgun. If Sidonis truly believed he would be strong in the face of danger, why would Garrus have any cause to doubt him?

This, also the fact that Peter cried afterwards... Sidonis did that too sort of, if you convinced Garrus not to shoot him. 

Modifié par RunicDragons, 19 mai 2011 - 11:13 .


#24862
ArcanaLegacy

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*SPAZZ*

Anyone who has the G4 channel, go watch it NAO! Attack of the Show is going to be talking about the "Road to E3 : RPGs" ....and just before the commercial break- i saw a glimpse of Mass effect 3!!!Image IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPBImage IPB [i bet itll just be teased,but still!]

darn commercials! Hurry up and finish!

[for those who dont have the channel - ill post the link to the vid when its posted later tonight.] I love Aots and Xplay. They are HUUGGGEEEEE bioware fans [escpecially mass effect ^___^]

edit: fyi - for those with comcast - ch162. 462 in HD.

~~~~~~~
Aw such a tease. it was just some small discussion on Elder Scolls V, Star Wars TOR, and ME3. Nothing really huge. No new details than we already know Image IPB Aw well - e3 is around the corner, so i cant wait!

Modifié par ArcanaLegacy, 19 mai 2011 - 11:53 .


#24863
Voice of Kosh

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I just said to my other half how proud I was of myself. I'd managed to start a discussion on the Garrus thread that didn't turn into porn. I scroll down two posts and then...

dannybates wrote...

 SEX!

*snip*


Danny, you just made me laugh out loud! Image IPB

Funniest thing all night. Great timing.

#24864
Obsydian

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Voice of Kosh wrote...

I just said to my other half how proud I was of myself. I'd managed to start a discussion on the Garrus thread that didn't turn into porn. I scroll down two posts and then...

dannybates wrote...

 SEX!

*snip*


Danny, you just made me laugh out loud! Image IPB

Funniest thing all night. Great timing.


what you need to learn is that on this thread... there is never a discussion tht will not turn into sex. :D  however, we made it pretty far. 

and dayum thats a sexy turian. i adore that turian. 


OMG *dies*   i think i might have just fallen a bit in love.   There is someone who understands me. 

Image IPB

Modifié par Obsydian, 20 mai 2011 - 12:21 .


#24865
jamesp81

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Obsydian wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...


You know what really sets heroes apart from cowards, I think?

Heroes just don't think about the possible consequences.  You could end up dead, maimed, tortured, or any number of bad things.  I think heroes just don't think about those things and, thus, don't worry about them.  If they did, they might be be able to bring themselves to great heights of heroic action.


i dont think this is true at all. I think a hero is someone who knows the consequences and yet does what is necessary regardless of personal harm. Look at the military. Each and every one of those boys knows what they're getting into, and yet they do it anyway. They go over to the scariest places on Earth and get shot at, blown up, etc simply because its the right thing to do.  Obviously this is not true of everyone ... but a lot of them.
I think that makes a hero. 

Surmansuuhun wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I also want him to tell Shepard to suck it next time they disagree.

As long as she doesn't...ingest.

But, yeah. I really want to see a Garrus stand up to Shepard. Something other than "Whatever you say, Commander."

Shepard: "Ok, that evil, murdering f***head has something that we need. I'm going to talk him into giving it to us, but he'll mostly likely try and kill us all since that's his way. Garrus, make sure no one attacks him."
Garrus: "Yeah, I'm not doing that."
Shepard: "What do you mean? We need the thing-"
Garrus: *Scopes and drops* Looks at Shepard.
Shepard stands there like a dope.
Garrus: "What are you waiting for? Get the thing."
Shepard head shake.


this causes much LOL'ing. :D   very much.

also, i really dislike Miri.  not cause she "evil"  or Cerberus.. but because she thinks that she's amazing.  because she assumes that she's going to be second to Shepard no matter what.  And most importantly, i dislike her cause she yelled at my Joker when he saved the ship. ya know.... That took some serious guts. I can't see her doing it. So yeah. I dislike Miri.  Btu ... no disrespect to all of you who like her. Each to their own, ya know?


I don't disagree, but I guarantee you that when the bullets start flying, they don't think about what could happen.  They think about getting the job done.

Those guys even say it themselves that that's what they do.  Focus on the task at hand, and fall apart later if you need to.  Had an uncle that was like that when he was in the Army.

#24866
Obsydian

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jamesp81 wrote...

I don't disagree, but I guarantee you that when the bullets start flying, they don't think about what could happen.  They think about getting the job done.

Those guys even say it themselves that that's what they do.  Focus on the task at hand, and fall apart later if you need to.  Had an uncle that was like that when he was in the Army.


My boyfriend is in the Army.  Some of them freak the eff out as soon as the bullets start flying.  Some of them don't realize that when you join the army, people are actually going to shoot at you.  Some of them can't seperate it. 
And some of them seperate it too much, and just bottle it up. 

Trust me. I hear way too much about this. 

#24867
Leonia

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Sooo have any of you tried LA Noire yet? I think Keener is being typecasted a bit :P

#24868
Obsydian

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i haven't yet... probably wont sadly... does he have a big part?

#24869
Leonia

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From what I gather, it's not major. But he's around. There's just something about that voice. Has this guy made an audiobook yet?

#24870
Obsydian

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Seriously.. I wish he would. i can think of no better voice ever. I'm not sure what it is. it's just captivating.

#24871
kglaser

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Obsydian wrote...

Seriously.. I wish he would. i can think of no better voice ever. I'm not sure what it is. it's just captivating.


+10,0000.  I'd listen to him read a manual on how to fix a toaster.  In Esperanto. <3

#24872
dannybates

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I could listen to Garrus talking about religion :3

RE GCSE nearly drove me insane

#24873
dannybates

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Well that was a very depressing fanfic D:

#24874
Chewin

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leonia42 wrote...

Sooo have any of you tried LA Noire yet? I think Keener is being typecasted a bit :P


Was actually stalking Brandon Keeners facebook page and he makes (sadly) a small appearance in this video. It's at 00:16

Couldn't find any other video :(

Modifié par Chewin3, 20 mai 2011 - 07:28 .


#24875
J4N3_M3

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Obsydian wrote...

Image IPB


awesome 3ds max work. i've never tried the posing in 3ds max. only imported and textured the models there to figure out how to port them for Garry's Mod. Might as well try some posing there since it's high-res textures and the rendered pictures are even better quality than the sreenshots in GMod. YAY....awesome. thank you for posting this.