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[Pacifien]

The Great Mass Effect 2 Science Project to End All Mass Effect 2 Science Projects (Until the Next One)

Purpose: To determine who Shepard is going to catch when a squadmate falls down a platform and who will pull Shepard onto the Normandy. Ancillary information on who will give Shepard a report on how the defense is doing and who will speak out first on their opinion of the Collector Base (should each squadmates opinion on the Collector Base should be the same).

Disclaimer: Dusty Everman already told me the developers didn't consider a particular order for this section of the suicide mission, but didn't deny the possibility that an order could be determined anyway.

Trends Noticed So Far:
a) The squadmate whose icon is on the LEFT is the person who will use the omnitool for the Illusive Man's communication.
The squadmate whose icon is on the RIGHT will be the person who hands Shepard the device to blow up/clear out the Collector Base.
c) The squadmate whos icon is on the RIGHT will be the person who Shepard will catch when the platforms fall.
d) The squadmate who pulls Shepard onto the Normandy DOES NOT have any bearing to their icon location.

Who is going to tell you about the defense:
Thane -> Jack -> Garrus -> Legion -> Grunt -> Jacob -> Samara -> Mordin -> Tali -> Kasumi -> ? -> ?
Unknown: Morinth's position in the lineup / If Miranda or Zaeed come after Kasumi

Who is going to advocate keeping the base (squadmates only speak up if you tell the Illusive Man the base is an abomination):
Zaeed -> Grunt -> Mordin -> Legion -> Garrus

Who is going to disagree with keeping the base (squadmates only speak up if you pick the "You think it can help?" option):
Thane -> Samara -> Tali -> Jacob -> Kasumi -> Jack -> Miranda
Note: ResidentNoob noted Morinth spoke Samara's line and might take her place in the order.

Who is going to pull up Shepard:
Miranda -> Zaeed -> Kasumi -> Tali -> Jacob -> Mordin -> Samara -> Grunt -> Legion -> Garrus -> Jack -> Thane
Unknown: Morinth's place
Note: If one squadmate dies during the final battle, the surviving squadmate will pull Shepard onto the Normandy.

Now for the good stuff.

Blue - Tested by me
Yellow - Tested by one person (not me)
Green - Tested by more than one person (not me)
Purple - Tested by me and others
Italics - Squadmate was caught by Shepard
Bold - Squadmate pulled Shepard onto the Normandy
Underline - When both squadmates agreed on what to do with the base, this squadmate spoke up first about it.

1) Garrus/Grunt   2) Garrus/Jack   3) Garrus/Jacob   4) Garrus/Kasumi   5) Garrus/Legion   6) Garrus/Miranda*
7) Garrus/Mordin   8) Garrus/Morinth   9) Garrus/Samara   10) Garrus/Tali   11) Garrus/Thane   12) Garrus/Zaeed

13) Grunt/Garrus   14) Grunt/Jack   15) Grunt/Jacob   16) Grunt/Kasumi   17) Grunt/Legion   18) Grunt/Miranda
19) Grunt/Mordin   20) Grunt/Morinth   21) Grunt/Samara   22) Grunt/Tali   23) Grunt/Thane   24) Grunt/Zaeed

25) Jack/Garrus   26) Jack/Grunt   27) Jack/Jacob   28) Jack/Kasumi   29) Jack/Legion   30) Jack/Miranda
31) Jack/Mordin   32) Jack/Morinth   33) Jack/Samara   34) Jack/Tali*   35) Jack/Thane   36) Jack/Zaeed

37) Jacob/Garrus   38) Jacob/Grunt   39) Jacob/Jack    40) Jacob/Kasumi   41) Jacob/Legion   42) Jacob/Miranda
43) Jacob/Mordin   44) Jacob/Morinth   45) Jacob/Samara   46) Jacob/Tali   47) Jacob/Thane   48) Jacob/Zaeed

49) Kasumi/Garrus   50)Kasumi/Grunt   51) Kasumi/Jack    52) Kasumi/Jacob   53) Kasumi/Legion   54) Kasumi/Miranda
55) Kasumi/Mordin   56) Kasumi/Morinth   57) Kasumi/Samara   58) Kasumi/Tali   59) Kasumi/Thane   60) Kasumi/Zaeed

61) Legion/Garrus   62) Legion/Grunt   63) Legion/Jack   64) Legion/Jacob   65) Legion/Kasumi   66) Legion/Miranda
67) Legion/Mordin   68) Legion/Morinth   69) Legion/Samara   70) Legion/Tali   71) Legion/Thane   72) Legion/Zaeed

73) Miranda/Garrus   74) Miranda/Grunt   75) Miranda/Jack   76) Miranda/Jacob   77) Miranda/Kasumi   78) Miranda/Legion
79) Miranda/Mordin    80) Miranda/Morinth   81) Miranda/Samara   82) Miranda/Tali*   83) Miranda/Thane*   84) Miranda/Zaeed

85) Mordin/Garrus   86) Mordin/Grunt   87) Mordin/Jack   88) Mordin/Jacob   89) Mordin/Kasumi   90) Mordin/Legion
91) Mordin/Miranda   92) Mordin/Morinth   93) Mordin/Samara   94) Mordin/Tali   95) Mordin/Thane   96) Mordin/Zaeed

97) Morinth/Garrus    98) Morinth/Grunt   99) Morinth/Jack   100) Morinth/Jacob   101) Morinth/Kasumi   102) Morinth/Legion
103) Morinth/Miranda   104) Morinth/Mordin   105) Morinth/Tali   106) Morinth/Thane   107) Morinth/Zaeed

108) Samara/Garrus   109) Samara/Grunt   110) Samara/Jack   111) Samara/Jacob   112) Samara/Kasumi   113) Samara/Legion
114) Samara/Miranda   115) Samara/Mordin   116) Samara/Tali   117) Samara/Thane   118) Samara/Zaeed

119) Tali/Garrus   120)   Tali/Grunt   121) Tali/Jack   122) Tali/Jacob   123) Tali/Kasumi   124) Tali/Legion
125) Tali/Miranda   126) Tali/Mordin   127) Tali/Morinth   128) Tali/Samara*   129) Tali/Thane   130) Tali/Zaeed

131) Thane/Garrus   132) Thane/Grunt   133) Thane/Jack   134) Thane/Jacob   135) Thane/ Kasumi   136) Thane/Legion
137) Thane/Miranda   138) Thane/Mordin   139) Thane/Morinth   140) Thane/Samara   141) Thane/Tali   142) Thane/Zaeed

143) Zaeed/Garrus   144) Zaeed/Grunt   145) Zaeed/Jack   146) Zaeed/Jacob   147) Zaeed/Kasumi   148) Zaeed/Legion
149) Zaeed/Miranda   150) Zaeed/Mordin   151) Zaeed/Morinth   152) Zaeed/Samara   153) Zaeed/Tali   154) Zaeed/Thane

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* 6) Garrus/Miranda - ResidentNoob notes that Miranda holds the omnitool in spite of being the right icon; suspect this will always be the case when Miranda goes to the final battle, so won't note this abnormality again
* 34) Jack/Tali - battlechantress states Jack handed her the device to blow up/clear out the base; normally this would be the same one who also falls down the platform
* 82) Miranda/Tali - battlechantress had Tali pull Shepard up onto the Normandy while I had Miranda pull Shepard up onto the Normandy.
* 83) Miranda/Thane - Kim Shepard took an unloyal Miranda and loyal Thane where Thane pulled Shepard onto the Normandy (most likely because Miranda was dead); Kim Shepard had Thane speak up about the base. My original notes had Miranda speak up about the base. Upon repeating the experiment, Thane spoke up about the base for me. Either my original notes are wrong or we have an anomaly. If you saw my notes, though, you'd suspect the former.
* 128) Tali/Samara - Bhatair has Tali pulling Shepard up into the Normandy while Collider has Samara pulling Shepard up into the Normandy

-----

Other Mad Scientists
battlechantress [1][2] ; Bhatair [1][2][3] ; Collider (via PM) ; Kim Shepard [1][2][3][4][5][6][7],[8] ; Lt. Davo [1] ; Nilfalasiel [1] ; ResidentNoob [1] ; Xsauce [1] ; Zulu_DFA [1]

Modifié par Pacifien, 03 juillet 2010 - 07:09 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Seems like the squadmate #2 gets rescued by Shepard from falling after the Human-Reaper, and the same one (if loyal) pulls Shepard up in the end. If you reload from the autosave before fignting the Human-Reaper for the second time the squadmates may occasionally sweep slots.

[Hepzi3]

Bump because I like this post and dont want to let the idea die.

[Ecael]

I wonder if we should also include which squadmate makes a comment on the Oculus after it dies.



The fact that Miranda can make a comment there while communicating with you through radio to get back to the bridge is quite an awkward moment.

"Another clone?!?"

[Aggie Punbot]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Seems like the squadmate #2 gets rescued by Shepard from falling after the Human-Reaper, and the same one (if loyal) pulls Shepard up in the end.

This isn't always true. I can't give any specifics (because I can't remember) but I've had a couple of instances where the person that pulled Shepard up at the end was not the one s/he saved from the platform. Then again, all of my teammates are always loyal, so...

[Pacifien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Seems like the squadmate #2 gets rescued by Shepard from falling after the Human-Reaper, and the same one (if loyal) pulls Shepard up in the end.

This isn't the case actually. I've had both a loyal Thane and loyal Miranda where Thane fell but Miranda caught me. Another time it was a loyal Garrus and loyal Tali where I managed to alternate catching Garrus and Tali, but Tali caught me both times.

[Pacifien]

Ecael wrote...
I wonder if we should also include which squadmate makes a comment on the Oculus after it dies.



The fact that Miranda can make a comment there while communicating with you through radio to get back to the bridge is quite an awkward moment.

"Another clone?!?"

Hey, at least I have an order on which squadmate is going to give you a report on the status of the team when you call back to ask how that holding the line is going.
Thane - Jack - Garrus - Legion - Grunt - Jacob - Samara - Mordin

Though that last one might be because Miranda was unloyally dead while Mordin was loyally alive.

I'm not figuring out the Oculus. I hate that fight.

I always wondered why the developers would create dialogue to cover every possible situation they can think of, but never considered that Miranda might actually be with you to fight the Oculus.

[Pacifien]

Pacifien wrote...
Hey, at least I have an order on which squadmate is going to give you a report on the status of the team when you call back to ask how that holding the line is going.
Thane - Jack - Garrus - Legion - Grunt - Jacob - Samara - Mordin

Wait a second... that list is looking awfully familiar. I should retest it to see if I have Samara in the wrong order.

[NYG1991]

from my playthroughs, it seems like shep catches thr squaddie on the right and the other one catches him in the ship. the exception is Miri. she seems to make the whole thing go haywire. it seems like im always catching her over any other female squaddie regardless of position. if ther is a male i catch the guy and it randomizes the people who pull shep in the normandy.



p.s. i play straightforward paragon and romanced Tali

[Pacifien]

To those interested in how science is going:
1) There does appear to be an order to who will catch Shepard. I have a discrepancy with Tali and Mordin which I'll figure out later. If you've ever wanted Garrus to catch you, so far quite a few people show up on the list before him. But anyway, the list is looking like this:
Zaeed - Kasumi - Mordin/Samara - Tali - Miranda - Grunt/Legion - Garrus - Jack - Thane

Any squadmate not listed hasn't been tested and the ones that are listed together haven't been tested against each other.

2) There is also an order to who is going to give you an update to how they're doing with holding the line.
Thane - Jack - Garrus - Legion - Grunt - Jacob - Samara - Mordin/Miranda

The end of that list still needs to be tested and the reason it's Mordin/Miranda is because I'm unsure if the reason Miranda didn't give an update is because she was, uh, dead.

Modifié par Pacifien, 27 juin 2010 - 04:50 .

[Bhatair]

Tali Left
Mordin Right

Omnitool: Tali
Shepard Caught: Mordin
Objected: Tali
Caught Shepard: Tali

I'm helping

Also a run with Tali/Samara resulted in Samara objecting over Tali.

Tali Left
Samara Right

Omnitool: Tali
Shepard Caught: Samara
Objected: Samara
Caught Shepard: Tali

Reloading didn't seem to change their positions.

[Pacifien]

Bhatair wrote...
*snip*
Reloading didn't seem to change their positions.

*adds data to others*

I actually had some difficulty getting squadmates to switch positions with a simple reload. What I had to do was let the Human Reaper and Collectors kill me and reload from that point. I got better results getting the squadmates to switch positions, but it didn't always work.

Incidentally, I could not for the life of me get the Human Reaper and Collectors to kill me while playing on casual. I ramped up the difficulty to insanity and even then they took their sweet time mowing me down.

[Bhatair]

Hmm interesting.

Now that I'm clearer on what to look for I think I'll go back and do some more.

[Pacifien]

Bhatair wrote...
Hmm interesting.
Now that I'm clearer on what to look for I think I'll go back and do some more.

Oh, and that's a reload from the autosave during the human reaper attack. This means I miss out on the omnitool data, but I have a strong suspicion that it's linked to who's the left icon anyway. Also, it means I have to get out of the game before the suicide mission actually finishes because I think the next autosave is where you talk to the Illusive Man. This is from doing it the hard way. People with the gibbed save editor probably have a much easier time of it.

[nadoni]

Pacifien wrote...

2) There is also an order to who is going to give you an update to how they're doing with holding the line.
Thane - Jack - Garrus - Legion - Grunt - Jacob - Samara - Mordin/Miranda

The end of that list still needs to be tested and the reason it's Mordin/Miranda is because I'm unsure if the reason Miranda didn't give an update is because she was, uh, dead.

Thank you I always wanted to know why in my last few playthroughs only Jack would update me. So there is an order. Haha~

[Bhatair]

Weee!

Garrus Left
Grunt Right

Omnitool: Garrus
Shepard Caught: Grunt
Objected: Grunt
Caught Shepard: Grunt
_________________________
Grunt Left
Garrus Right

Omnitool: Grunt
Shepard Caught: Garrus
Objected: Grunt
Caught Shepard: Grunt
_________________________
Garrus Left
Mordin Right

Omnitool: Garrus
Shepard Caught: Mordin
Objected: Mordin
Caught Shepard: Mordin
________________________
Garrus Left
Legion Right

Omnitool: Garrus
Shepard Caught: Legion
Objected: Legion
Caught Shepard: Legion

Switching their positions only changes the omnitool/shep catches scenes.
Garrus seems pretty low on the "Catches shep" and "advocates saving thr base" lists, along with being on the left a lot, had to use the die and reload trick to get him on the right with Grunt.
That's all for today lol.

[Pacifien]

Updates:
Thane will apparently catch you if you bring him to the final battle and he survives while the other squadmate didn't. Otherwise, he's all "meh, let the other one do it."

It appears anyone can get any squadmate combo to switch icon places, but it is still random on who's icon is going to be in which slot. Picking one squadmate first on the selection screen isn't going to guarantee the icon is on the left, for example.

When Shepard calls back to ask how everyone's doing with holding the line, the order in which squadmates radio back is as follows:

Thane - Jack - Garrus - Legion - Grunt - Jacob - Samara - Mordin - Tali - Kasumi - ? - ?

I've reached the limit on being able to test this, so figuring out where Morinth, Zaeed, and Miranda fit into this list is in the hands of others.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 juin 2010 - 05:49 .

[BDelacroix]

Oddly enough, the first play through I did I actually redid the ending with the same people and had different results both times.

[2pac Shakur]

I honestly dont understand how I saved grunt from falling without my arm being snapped off



guess Bioware didnt count Grunt to be a fan favourite

[Fiery Phoenix]

Okay, to answer your question as to who responds first if both disagree with keeping the base, I had Thane and Miranda with me at the final boss, and Thane was the one who objected by saying "Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate.", while Miranda was holding up the omni-tool. This may or may not be because I romanced him. 

EDIT: I'm also not sure if it matters who you pick first from the party selection screen. I don't remember who I picked first, but I guess it was Thane. 

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 29 juin 2010 - 08:17 .

[Pacifien]

BDelacroix wrote...
Oddly enough, the first play through I did I actually redid the ending with the same people and had different results both times.

This can happen if their icons have switched places on reload. Likely the same person pulled Shepard up into the Normandy both times, however.

[Kim Shepard]

You haven't tested any combinations for Jacob yet? I'll try a Jacob/Thane playthrough later today. It would be nice if Shepard didn't have to kill off another squadmate for Thane to catch her.

If I have time, I'll try Legion/Grunt (and disagree with TIM the first time around just to see which one speaks out) and Samara/Mordin combinations too.

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Okay, to answer your question as to who responds first if both disagree with keeping the base, I had Thane and Miranda with me at the final boss, and Thane was the one who objected by saying "Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate.", while Miranda was holding up the omni-tool. This may or may not be because I romanced him. 

EDIT: I'm also not sure if it matters who you pick first from party selection screen. I don't remember who I picked first, but I guess it was Thane. 

When I brought Miranda and Thane, Thane was the one who objected to keeping the base too. My Shepard didn't romance him, so that wouldn't be the reason.

[Sursion]

Am I the only person who has never had a squadmate (except Miranda) speak up about keeping/destroying the base? When I make a choice, they simply cut off the illusive man and hand me the bomb. No words spoken.

Modifié par Sursion, 29 juin 2010 - 08:17 .

[ResidentNoob]

That's either because:



a) You took the neutral options during the conversation, meaning that they have nothing to object to, or:

You took the options that mean both of your squaddies agree with you. meaning that they don't say anything because they, again, have nothing to object to.

[Spornicus]

Pacifien wrote...

   
4) If Shepard disagrees with the Illusive Man on keeping the base (calling it an abomination)...
     a) A squadmate who agrees with keeping the base will speak up (Garrus, Grunt, Legion, Mordin, Zaeed)
          i) If you have two squadmates who agree with keeping the base, is there an order to who will speak up first?

5) If Shepard agrees with the Illusive Man on keeping the base...
     a) A squadmate who disagrees with keeping the base will speak up (Jack, Jacob, Kasumi, Miranda, Samara, Tali, Thane)
          i) If you have two squadmates who disagree with keeping the base, is there an order to who will speak up first?

For science!

You just brought up another continuity error: after the mission, EVERYONE is against keeping the base, yet you just pointed out 5 squadmates who speak in favor of keeping the base.

Also, the 5 squadmates in favor of keeping the base also happen to be most badass. Doesn't really add anything to the topic, I just thought I'd obnoxiously plug my opinions here.