15 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

I haven't even installed Awakenings yet, as I am just finishing my Origins playthrough after purchasing both games, and as such I am not fully aware of how the armor/weapon rune slots work, as the wiki does not list any on items that I have read  should have them.  Nevertheless, I pieced together the following:

Fade Shroud = 25% Dodge
Fade Shield = 20% Dodge (with Arcane Shield active)
The Spellward = 10% Dodge
Vigilence MH = 10% Dodge
Voice of Velvet OH = 25% Dodge
Total = 90%

Soulbound = 20% Spell Resistance
The Spellward = 30% Spell Resistance
Fade Shield = 20% Spell Resistance
Key to the City = 4% Spell Resistance
Total = 74% Spell Resistance

According to the Wiki, there are 5% Dodge armor runes and 14% Spell Resistance weapon runes.  Assuming that, between the two weapons and whatever armor pieces I choose have two slots each, I would reach 100% on both.  I also have the option of wearing Cailan's boots for 20% Dodge.  Would I then be, if this achieved, literally untouchable?

[electricfish]

Traps will still get you, but generally yes. See if you can spot some +defense items for even more damage dodging. :B

[Last Darkness]

Its certainly possible but if you ever tried it you will understand why people dont like "Dodge" builds. When you dodge it locks you into a animation of dodging that interupts your attacks. Defense builds are better since you can keep attacking without interuption since then its simply enemies miss instead of you dodging.

Of course you do also realise it takes 40 Dex to equip voice of velvet and the fact that without duel weapon training your doing significantly less damage as a untrained duel wielder specificaly .0 to .25 damage depending on weapon. Basicaly half damage at best.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 27 juin 2010 - 03:56 .

[Maverick827]

Last Darkness wrote...

Its certainly possible but if you ever tried it you will understand why people dont like "Dodge" builds. When you dodge it locks you into a animation of dodging that interupts your attacks. Defense builds are better since you can keep attacking without interuption since then its simply enemies miss instead of you dodging.

Of course you do also realise it takes 40 Dex to equip voice of velvet and the fact that without duel weapon training your doing significantly less damage as a untrained duel wielder specificaly .0 to .25 damage depending on weapon. Basicaly half damage at best.

I did read about the dodge annoyance, but I figured being neigh-unkillable that it wouldn't really matter.  I also planned to reach 40 Dex; between the Fade, Belt, and Key, it wouldn't be that many points.  But I do see that the damage wouldn't be so great.

What if I got the 2H version of Vigilence instead?  I might not be able to cap (I would need four 5% Dodge runes, with Cailan's boos).  I enjoy the indestructability of AW/BM, but I'm just sick of Sword and Board, and also of dancing around the Mana Regen penalties of all of the good sustainables (hence the Dodge and Spell resist route).

[Last Darkness]

Eitherway your going to be really bored, if your on the PC just use the cheat for invincibility instead.



bama a Purespellcaster with massive armor from a logistical point of view is pure uselessness. Unless you like casting spells at double or more mana costs.



I dont see why.....no I know why "It looks cool" is the reason the forum goers like to build these when all they need is a Defense stacking set. You do know you can build a practicaly untouchable Arcane Warrior using pretty much only mage cloth gear and never having to use armor right? Also Maverrick those sustainables are easily kept up 100% of the time with a decent mana regen gear set.

[GoodFella146]

I have a bit of a different look for you.  I was screwing around on Awakening (thank you Manual of Focus) and I think combining this idea with a Shapeshifter could really be interesting.  The dodge animation can get really annoying and the auto-attack of Arcane Warriors can also get annoying (due to missed hits resulting from a low attack score).  Flying Swarm does not trigger the dodge animation and does not use auto-attack when attacking. 

Since Flying swarm starts with 40% dodge, let's take a look at combining this with other gear.  Mind you there are other combinations of gear available, but this is just what I starting using (because it is what came to mind first).

Dodge Ability (105% Total)

Flying Swarm = 40% Dodge
Voice of Velvet = 25% Dodge
The Spellward = 10% Dodge
First Enchanter's Cowl = 10% Dodge
Evon the Great's Mail = 10% Dodge
Imperial Weavers = 10% Dodge

Spell Resist (101% Total)

Voice of Velvet using 3 Grandmaster Dweomer Runes = 30% Spell Resistance
The Spellward = 30% Spell Resistance
First Enchanter's Cowl = 2% Spell Resistance
Duncan's Dagger using 3 Grandmaster Dweomer Runes = 30% Spell Resistance
Key to the City = 4% Spell Resistance
Fade Shield = 5% Spell Resistance

A couple of notes:
-I chose Duncan's Dagger because Voice of Velvet needs 40 Dexterity.  Using Duncan's Dagger gives you +4 dexterity minimising the amount of attribute points you need to put into dexterity.
-Fade Shield has a passive 5% Spell Resistance and I have to use that rather than activating Arcane Shield.  Any sustained ability will automatically deactivate when you shapeshift.

Depending on how well you play Origins, it is possible to get this initial build at the very beginning of Awakening.  This build does not make use of any armor slots, so those are available for whatever you chose.  It may be best to use the Paragon Reservoir Runes here because any damage to Flying Swarm drains mana and not health.

In actually playing this set-up, I was quite happy that I was unable to get hit or zapped by magic.  I was just starting to think that I was invincible when I started getting wrecked by a stupid Ogre using the silly Ram ability.  The Ram ability is an auto-hit so he killed me almost instantly!  LOL  Ok, so this bulid won't work for every situation but I think it is a big step up for Shapeshifting because traditionally it's just horrible.  Hopefully this idea is of some interest to people and they can expand it from here.  Good Luck!

P.S. Beware creatures with Nature immunity because your Flying Swarm will do no damage against those types of creatures.

[Elhanan]

^ Nice tips for newby Shifters! Thanks!

[Maverick827]

You could also look into Reaper's Vestments instead of Evon's, as it provides the same Dodge, but also 16% Spell Immunity.
As far as creatures with Nature Immunity and Ogres, I think it would be best to spec the mage in such a way that it will be extremely effective outside of the form as well. I mean, 100% Spell Resistance and 60% Dodge is nothing to scoff at.

Dare I say that a pure spellcasting mage with 100% Dodge and 100% Spell Immunity, not in any Shapeshifting form and also not in any Arcane Warrior forms, would be more powerful than either.

Modifié par Maverick827, 12 juillet 2010 - 10:33 .

[TBastian]

That's gimping the shifter. First off Swarm's dodge is displacement, so it doesn't stack with anything (like the Rogue's Evasion). Second the shifter is ideally a pure magic/semi-pure magic mage, investing too much in any other stat can actually harm the spec since by itself it already has all the versatility it needs (via the forms). 40 dex is just too high, 20's or even early 30's is biddable but I draw the line at 40. Third some skills are autohit/some spells cannot be resisted (the most dangerous ones actually, no surprise there) and fourth, a pure spellcasting mage who shifts > a shapeshifter who somehow took it into his head that his forms can finish the game all on their own. Heck even Arcane Warriors use magic extensively. Magic always takes precedence over everything else, it's when you use the shifter forms to complement spellcasting rather than the other way round that the Shapeshifter really shines. Of course, you also have to know how the forms work first.

Nice try though. I have tested a very similar build and it did alright, though in the end it's a far cry from the potential of a Shapeshifter nuker. Shifter just doesn't jump that way, "stay in a form > magic" doesn't work at all. Btw taking AW with Shifter is like taking Bard with a dex build. It works, but on the whole it's a messy combination.

Modifié par TBastian, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:37 .

[GoodFella146]

TBastian wrote...

That's gimping the shifter. First off Swarm's dodge is displacement, so it doesn't stack with anything (like the Rogue's Evasion). Second the shifter is ideally a pure magic/semi-pure magic mage, investing too much in any other stat can actually harm the spec since by itself it already has all the versatility it needs (via the forms). 40 dex is just too high, 20's or even early 30's is biddable but I draw the line at 40. Third some skills are autohit/some spells cannot be resisted (the most dangerous ones actually, no surprise there) and fourth, a pure spellcasting mage who shifts > a shapeshifter who somehow took it into his head that his forms can finish the game all on their own. Heck even Arcane Warriors use magic extensively. Magic always takes precedence over everything else, it's when you use the shifter forms to complement spellcasting rather than the other way round that the Shapeshifter really shines. Of course, you also have to know how the forms work first.

Nice try though. I have tested a very similar build and it did alright, though in the end it's a far cry from the potential of a Shapeshifter nuker. Shifter just doesn't jump that way, "stay in a form > magic" doesn't work at all. Btw taking AW with Shifter is like taking Bard with a dex build. It works, but on the whole it's a messy combination.

Obviously, obviously, obviously....  My assumption is that everybody knows that Shapeshifter is terrible, but the idea was that this could be pretty cool/interesting.  If you're just going to nuke stuff why even bother with the Shapeshifting?  Oh, because you think it's cool/interesting.  Well, there you go.

[chefbobby203]

Exactly...shapeshifting to supplement nukes is one thing. Why not just take blood magic....nuke all day with no pots required....it's all a matter of preference really

[Last Darkness]

So did you ever make Whiffy McWhiffster?

[Maverick827]

No. I ended up playing my normal AW first and realized that he was unkillable anyway, so I didn't bother.