302 réponses à ce sujet

[SSV Enterprise]

Ecael, you are awesome.  Just saying. 

[Hulk Hsieh]

Lt Davo wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

I dunno. First time I got the IFF mission and looked at the galaxy map, saw one mission vs exploration/completion of dozens of planets just sitting - and knowing which would further the plot - i knew to steer clear.

Yeah. You play a few games, and you learn that if you want to do everything there is to do in one playthrough, always pick side missions over story missions. Don't go on the mission that advances the central story until that's the only option you have left. Even if every character keeps telling you how urgent it is that you advance the central story.

In ME2, that strategy can leave you underprepared for the Collector Ship, and it causes you to lose sweet Kelly and the rest of the crew, but that's not so bad. Like the others have said, the bad guys don't wait for the hero to get ready, so it's fitting that there are consequences to mining planets and gambling on varren fights while your crew is captured.

Isn't there an argument between Jacob and Miranda (or someone else?) that should they go get IFF immediately or prepare more? 

I think the dialog gives enough hints on the nature of IFF mission - if you want to prepare, don't do it.

Modifié par Hulk Hsieh, 28 juin 2010 - 03:44 .

[Christmas Ape]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...
Isn't there an argument between Jacob and Miranda (or someone else?) that should they go get IFF immediately or prepare more? 

I think the dialog gives enough hints on the nature of IFF mission - if you want to prepare, don't do it.

I even explicitly called it out, though I couched it in sarcastic "Wouldn't it be great if...?" language.

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Ecael.

Scratch out the Pyjaks. It involves combat.

Then, count and compare the time necessary to complete the combat-free ME1 & ME2 missions.

Then stop bombarding me with the credits. I see what I see in the game. And I see plotholes. I also see that some of the plotholes are the writers' goofs, but most of them result from the change in the writers team position: from requesting every other team to do this and that to being requested by every other team to do this and that ... and, oh, if they have time, to try advancing the trilogy's plot.

Finally, for God's sake, stop using this "both games are apples from the same tree of the same size, color and odor" scholastic slogan. Because even though it's true, the apple #2 is rotten inside.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 28 juin 2010 - 04:07 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

I did nearly everything on my first playthrough and no one died. I didn't even spoil myself. So... I didn't feel railroaded into the plot at all. I've had plenty of time in every playthrough to do everything. Just do it all right before the IFF mission. Then the only possible mission left is Legion's loyalty mission. So you do that, and get the crew abducted, and go right through the relay. And from a bunch of perspectives, it makes sense, too, because you're preparing to board a FRIGGIN REAPER. Best to be prepared.

[Zulu_DFA]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I did nearly everything on my first playthrough and no one died. I didn't even spoil myself. So... I didn't feel railroaded into the plot at all. I've had plenty of time in every playthrough to do everything. Just do it all right before the IFF mission. Then the only possible mission left is Legion's loyalty mission. So you do that, and get the crew abducted, and go right through the relay. And from a bunch of perspectives, it makes sense, too, because you're preparing to board a FRIGGIN REAPER. Best to be prepared.

And from the in-game perspective it only makes sense that you go to the Derelict Reaper ASAP, that is immediately after the Collector ship mission. Because there may be people still alive there from the science team! Not that I care much about people, but an alive witness and a computer log is always better than a computer log and a corpse.

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@ Ecael.

Scratch out the Pyjaks. It involves combat.

Then, count and the time necessary to complete the combat-free ME1 & ME2 missions.

Not regular combat, it doesn't. Besides that...

Dialogue Quests, Mass Effect 1
1. Citadel: Asari Consort - 3 conversations
2. Citadel: Homecoming - 3 conversations
3. Citadel: Presidium Prophet - 2 conversations
4. Citadel: Reporter's Request - 1 conversation
5. Citadel: Rita's Sister - 3 conversations
6. Citadel: Schells the Gambler - 2 conversations, max
7. Citadel: The Fan - 3 conversations
8. Citadel: Xeltan's Complaint - 1 conversation
9. Citadel: Family Matter - 1 conversation
10. Citadel: Snap Inspection - 1 conversation
11. Citadel: The Fourth Estate - 1 conversation
12. Citadel: Our Own Worst Enemy - 1 conversation
13. Citadel: Negotiator's Request - 2 conversations, max
14. Noveria: Espionage - 2 conversations
15. Noveria: Smuggling - 2 conversations, max

Fetch Quests, Mass Effect 1
1. Citadel: Scan the Keepers - 17 keepers scanned, 1 conversation
2. Citadel: Signal Tracking - 3 glitched machines, 1 conversation
3. Citadel: Planting a Bug - 2 conversations, max

Dialogue Quests, Mass Effect 2
1. Omega: Batarian Bartender - 2 conversations
2. Omega: Packages for Ish - 2 conversations, max
3. Omega: Struggling Quarian - 2 conversations
4. Omega: The Patriarch - 3 conversations
5. Citadel: Crime in Progress - 3 conversations
6. Citadel: False Positives - 2 conversations
7. Citadel: Krogan Sushi - 2 conversations
8. Citadel: The Council - 1 long conversation
9. Illium: Conrad Verner - 3 conversations
10. Illium: Gianna Parasini - 3 conversations
11. Illium: Indentured Service - 3 conversations
12. Illium: Medical Scans - 3 conversations
13. Illium: The Justicar: Stolen Goods Found - 1 conversation
14. Illium: Blue Rose of Illium - 2 conversations
15. Illium: Liara: Systems Hacking - 2 conversations
16. Illium: Liara: The Observer - 2 conversations

Fetch Quests, Mass Effect 2
1. Normandy: FBA Couplings - 2 conversations
2. Normandy: Serrice Ice Brandy - 2 conversations
3. Normandy: Special Ingredients - 2 conversations

In other words, the only way any side mission could possibly take longer in comparison to Mass Effect 1 is if you're skipping all the dialogue in Mass Effect 2 and spending 10 minutes in the elevator or at the Citadel Rapid Transit loading screen trying to do Mass Effect 1 quests (as with the Scan the Keepers quest).

Apparently that quest is your best bet to telling people just how "in depth" Mass Effect 1's side missions are - with the repeated use of the loading screen.

It's a good thing no one's ever brought up the loading screens in Mass Effect 2 - oh, wait...

Then stop bombarding me with the credits. I see what I see in the game. And I see plotholes. I also see that some of the plot holes are the writers goof, but most of them result from the change in the writers team position: from requesting every other team to do this and that to being requested by every other team to do this and that ... and, oh, if they have time, to try advance the trilogy's plot.

The writers dictate the main story. They may have to rewrite a codex or loyalty mission or two to fit the gameplay, but they are in charge of the direction that Mass Effect 2 takes. If you think that's somehow going to change by nitpicking plotholes from only the second game (and not both), then you're going to be very disappointed in Mass Effect 3 as well as any other game with this much dialogue.

Finally, for God's sake, stop using this "both games are apples from the same tree of the same size, color and odor" slogan. Because even though it's true, the apple #2 is rotten inside.

So, going by your analogy, that means Mass Effect 1 is the perfect apple game to you?

I guess we should just throw out the entire Mass Effect trilogy as bad because of one bad apple, then.

Modifié par Ecael, 28 juin 2010 - 09:41 .

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...
So, going by your analogy, that means Mass Effect 1 is the perfect apple game to you?

I guess we should just throw out the entire Mass Effect trilogy as bad because of one bad apple, then.

Then you'd be out of a job.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Christmas Ape wrote...

When I am talking to TIM, they throw this situation at me all the sudden and then while I’m still blinking tell me that because of this situation working with Cerberus is THE ONLY WAY. But as much as Cerberus supporters argue that this is true, it’s never illustrated satisfactorily in the game.

Well, you're presented with a few facts:
- The Council is publicly completely denying your information about Reapers.
- As the new Council race, the Alliance is politically compelled to keep you from running around yelling about Reapers, and thus give you a do-nothing robot hunt to keep you out in BFE.
- While on this hunt, you died.
- Cerberus fixed you.
- Cerberus believes you.
- Cerberus has a lead on the next Reaper plan - or at the least, a massive f***ing threat to humanity.
Who else are you going to go to? You're one dead Specter on a Cerberus base somewhere. Two of your old crew members have already signed on because they were told you'd be leading the mission. Are you going to shoot your way out, steal a shuttle, and go back to hunting robots because the Alliance doesn't have the political will or clout to let you pursue the actual threat? Or maybe shoot your way out, steal a shuttle, and go fight the Reapers alone with absolutely zero resources or certain allies?
I don't feel the game is required to give you an "out" in this circumstance any more than DA should have let you knife Duncan in his sleep on the road to Ostagar and go wandering the land of your own accord until everyone dies. Buy-in.

Never thought about it that way. Joining Cerberus is now justified in my eyes. Thank you.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

I did nearly everything on my first playthrough and no one died. I didn't even spoil myself. So... I didn't feel railroaded into the plot at all. I've had plenty of time in every playthrough to do everything. Just do it all right before the IFF mission. Then the only possible mission left is Legion's loyalty mission. So you do that, and get the crew abducted, and go right through the relay. And from a bunch of perspectives, it makes sense, too, because you're preparing to board a FRIGGIN REAPER. Best to be prepared.

And from the in-game perspective it only makes sense that you go to the Derelict Reaper ASAP, that is immediately after the Collector ship mission. Because there may be people still alive there from the science team! Not that I care much about people, but an alive witness and a computer log is always better than a computer log and a corpse.

How does it make sense? The Illusive Man lost contact with the team a while ago, not to mention the fact if the Reaper was really all that important other than for the IFF, he would have told Shepard sooner. And it's not in danger of anything, really, as it's been here for 37 million years. What's another month's worth of traveling around the galaxy going to hurt, as I patrol for other signs of Collector or Mercenary trouble? TIM would let me know if anything else went seriously wrong.

Even then, just don't activate/sell Legion and you STILL have all the time in the world.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Who cares if the crew dies. Consequences = Variables

[Pacifien]

From an in-game perspective, I never understood why Saren didn't immediately go through the Mu Relay once Matriarch Benezia gave him the coordinates. He already had the vision from both beacons. He already had the cipher. Don't know where he got the name of Ilos, but he certainly didn't need Liara to figure that out. He had everything he needed long before Shepard managed to catch up to him, so while Shepard is traipsing around the galaxy trying to figure out what Saren is doing, he should have already gone through the Conduit and attacked the Citadel.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...
You're going to be very disappointed in Mass Effect 3.

No, I'm not, because I expect ME3 to be the worst game ever. Thus, I might be pleasantly surprised only, if I'm wrong.

Ecael wrote...
I guess we should just throw out the entire Mass Effect trilogy as bad because of one bad apple, then.

Saw down the very tree, I say!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Thats what she said

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
So, going by your analogy, that means Mass Effect 1 is the perfect apple game to you?

I guess we should just throw out the entire Mass Effect trilogy as bad because of one bad apple, then.

Then you'd be out of a job.

And what exactly have you fulfilled during all your time here?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, I'm not, because I expect ME3 to be the worst game ever. Thus, I might be pleasantly surprised only, if I'm wrong.

Well, you can spend the next two years being disappointed and then either be pleasantly surprised or still disappointed, or just be a bit more optimistic and either be pleasantly surprised or disappointed.

Modifié par Ecael, 28 juin 2010 - 04:29 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
So, going by your analogy, that means Mass Effect 1 is the perfect apple game to you?

I guess we should just throw out the entire Mass Effect trilogy as bad because of one bad apple, then.

Then you'd be out of a job.

And what exactly have you fulfilled during all your time here?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, I'm not, because I expect ME3 to be the worst game ever. Thus, I might be pleasantly surprised only, if I'm wrong.

Well, you can spend the next two years being disappointed and then either be pleasantly surprised or still disappointed, or >in addition to being disappointed < just be a bit more optimistic and either be pleasantly surprised or disappointed >yet again<.

[Ecael]

[quote][quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, I'm not, because I expect ME3 to be the worst game ever. Thus, I might be pleasantly surprised only, if I'm wrong.[/quote]
Well, you can spend the next two years being disappointed and then either be pleasantly surprised or still disappointed, or >in addition to being disappointed yet again<.[/quote][/quote]
Yeah... I try not to have that perspective on anything in life, including luxury goods in the form of entertainment multimedia.

Modifié par Ecael, 28 juin 2010 - 04:53 .

[Pacifien]

I like my pessimism. I like being pleasantly surprised by life.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I hate everything. I like hating everything in life.

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

I like my pessimism. I like being pleasantly surprised by life.

Liking pleasant surprizes is illogical and unhealthy. Each pleasant surprize means there is one less plesant surprize remaining.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 28 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

[quote]Ecael wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, I'm not, because I expect ME3 to be the worst game ever. Thus, I might be pleasantly surprised only, if I'm wrong.[/quote]
Well, you can spend the next two years being disappointed and then either be pleasantly surprised or still disappointed, or >in addition to being disappointed yet again<.[/quote][/quote]
Yeah... I try not to have that perspective on anything in life, including luxury goods in the form of entertainment multimedia.[/quote]

But he killed Misery!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

I like my pessimism. I like being pleasantly surprised by life.

Liking plesant surprizes is illogical and unhealthy. Each pleasant surprize means there is one less plesant surprize remaining.

Surprises are dangerous, I would prefer to kill them

[Ecael]

...But the surpriiize?

[Zulu_DFA]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I like hating everything in life.

This statement is paradoxial. Therefore, it's not true. Therefore you are lying.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I like hating everything in life.

This statement is paradoxial. Therefore, it's not true. Therefore you are lying.

I like like, but life no.  Thus like is good, life is bad, hate of life good, like is good.  Like hate.  Life hate.  I like it.

[Ecael]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I like hating everything in life.

This statement is paradoxial. Therefore, it's not true. Therefore you are lying.

I like like, but life no.  Thus like is good, life is bad, hate of life good, like is good.  Like hate.  Life hate.  I like it.

I'd like to hate to like hating your life.