302 réponses à ce sujet

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Does it take an hour to swap a disk in the X-Box?

Nah. Hit the eject button when prompted, change discs, push the tray back in, and it may take five to ten seconds to acknowledge. It's really the most minor of inconveniences.

[Zulu_DFA]

LaurenIsSoMosh wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Does it take an hour to swap a disk in the X-Box?

Nah. Hit the eject button when prompted, change discs, push the tray back in, and it may take five to ten seconds to acknowledge. It's really the most minor of inconveniences.

Figures...

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Let me ask a question, just for the sake of enlightening my retarded PC using self: Does it take an hour to swap a disk in the X-Box?

No, but that means people have to get off the couch more than once.

I don't want to delay it. I want to go there before going to Korlus, (or Purgatory, for that matter). Only Mordin's recruitment necessity is justified in-game (by his "countermeasures"), and TIM hints as much. Not that I say we should not have been able to go to Horizon without Mordin (or with him recruited "late" - consequences!) - that just could result in "Critical mission failure" screen.

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not quite sure whether it's possible or not, if only because Horizon doesn't have a "Land" button (so the ability to "choose" to land on it like the Reaper IFF is not there).

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Let me ask a question, just for the sake of enlightening my retarded PC using self: Does it take an hour to swap a disk in the X-Box?

No, but that means people have to get off the couch more than once.

Very funny. Now, I feel even more retarded. I do PT for no reason sometimes.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's why it's called "Insanity", I suppose.

Anyway, if the reasoning you suggest behind Horizon requiring all 4 recruitment missions complete to trigger is the case, then it's only confirms that the plot is being sacrificed for the "fluent gameplay".

You can have just 5 recruited squadmates and 4 missions complete (after the Normandy acquizition) and be forced to go to Horizon, but you can have 7 recruited squadmates and 5 major and like 10+ N7 missions complete and still not have the Horizon. How does this fit into the timeline / big universe concept?

The missions/squadmates numbers only reflects that "how early Collector make their move to Horizon".
Shepard still go immediately after Collector make their move.

And in the first run which the player doesn't have the metagame knowledge of how to affect Collector invasion time, both "4 missions" or "a lot of missions" actually make sense. It is the enemy's active move.

[HTTP 404]

Ghost_360 wrote...

How about we just enjoy the game and quit taking everything so seriously.

this! haha older post that went ignored.  Anger makes one helluva blinders.

I posted my opinion when this post came out and was kinda repriminded (for lack of better word) for a point I never made.  So I left, still a pissing contest still.  By reading some more posts and without engaging in any one particular poster but the OP...

I think there are good points made in this argument but its basically comes down to what floats your boat.  I personally feel that I don't mind the force your hand plot as it keeps me thinking about my actions, if I proceed to headstrong through the plot, the plot should respond in kind.  BTW, its never game over, its just consequences. 

However with that said, the game should forewarn you of once you go somewhere you jeapordize your plot with consequences on a lower difficulty.  That shouldnt bar you from playing insanity because most of us replay the game on insanity and know the plot flow without any surprises to throw at you by then. my two cents, good topic btw, never really thought about this as a problem but I could see how some are a bit miffed by it. 

cheers

[Zulu_DFA]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's why it's called "Insanity", I suppose.

Anyway, if the reasoning you suggest behind Horizon requiring all 4 recruitment missions complete to trigger is the case, then it's only confirms that the plot is being sacrificed for the "fluent gameplay".

You can have just 5 recruited squadmates and 4 missions complete (after the Normandy acquizition) and be forced to go to Horizon, but you can have 7 recruited squadmates and 5 major and like 10+ N7 missions complete and still not have the Horizon. How does this fit into the timeline / big universe concept?

The missions/squadmates numbers only reflects that "how early Collector make their move to Horizon".
Shepard still go immediately after Collector make their move.

And in the first run which the player doesn't have the metagame knowledge of how to affect Collector invasion time, both "4 missions" or "a lot of missions" actually make sense. It is the enemy's active move.

Actually, after Horizon TIM reveals it as his (which means our side's) active move. So there could have been implemented some disguised trigger, which the player could activate at will. Like Mordin tells you he developed the "countermeasures" and you call TIM to make him happy about the mission progress and like after another mission TIM tells you to go to Horizon (or immediately, if you are through all available missions).

But BioWare went the easy way.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 juin 2010 - 04:01 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...
The missions/squadmates numbers only reflects that "how early Collector make their move to Horizon".
Shepard still go immediately after Collector make their move.

And in the first run which the player doesn't have the metagame knowledge of how to affect Collector invasion time, both "4 missions" or "a lot of missions" actually make sense. It is the enemy's active move.

Actually, after Horizon TIM reveals it as his (which means our side's) active move. So there could have been implemented some disguised trigger, which the player could activate at will. Like Mordin tells you he developed the "countermeasures" and you call TIM to make him happy about the mission progress and like after another mission TIM tells you to go to Horizon (or immediately, if you are through all available missions).

But BioWare went the easy way.

Well, TIM's action is as uncontrollable to the player as the Collectors', which is reasonable according to who he is.
And he does installed Miranda on SR2, who is known to reporting to TIM on Shepard's progress. And after the mission, there is dialog for Shepard to complain to TIM.

I don't think caliing TIM to start Horizon this takes much more effort and a "harder" way. It is few more lines of dialogs afterall, maybe no more than Shepard's complaint on TIM working behind him. However, it would somehow diminish the dynamic betwenn Shepard and TIM they want to show.

[Nightwriter]

Christmas Ape wrote...

When I am talking to TIM, they throw this situation at me all the sudden and then while I’m still blinking tell me that because of this situation working with Cerberus is THE ONLY WAY. But as much as Cerberus supporters argue that this is true, it’s never illustrated satisfactorily in the game.

Well, you're presented with a few facts:
- The Council is publicly completely denying your information about Reapers.
- As the new Council race, the Alliance is politically compelled to keep you from running around yelling about Reapers, and thus give you a do-nothing robot hunt to keep you out in BFE.
- While on this hunt, you died.
- Cerberus fixed you.
- Cerberus believes you.
- Cerberus has a lead on the next Reaper plan - or at the least, a massive f***ing threat to humanity.
Who else are you going to go to? You're one dead Specter on a Cerberus base somewhere. Two of your old crew members have already signed on because they were told you'd be leading the mission. Are you going to shoot your way out, steal a shuttle, and go back to hunting robots because the Alliance doesn't have the political will or clout to let you pursue the actual threat? Or maybe shoot your way out, steal a shuttle, and go fight the Reapers alone with absolutely zero resources or certain allies?
I don't feel the game is required to give you an "out" in this circumstance any more than DA should have let you knife Duncan in his sleep on the road to Ostagar and go wandering the land of your own accord until everyone dies. Buy-in.

EDIT: But, I'm willing to consider it. You spin it for me. tIM makes his case for sending you to Freedom's Progress. You tell him to eat a bowl of dicks, somehow get off the base, and are now plotting a course in a stolen Cerberus shuttle. Tens of thousands of human colonists have disappeared. You have no actual ship - certainly not an armed one - no crew, and no allies. You have no dossiers to recruit, no money, one pistol and some N7 armor. You tell me what the game should be like from there while not requiring you to buy the alternate-cover "Give tIM The Finger" edition with a completely different story structure.

Lol. That would've been great, first off - escaping. If they show us the only way out is a dead end, that's great.

My argument actually isn't that they give us another way to do this besides working with Cerberus. It's that they show us more effectively that this is the only way. All your arguments: "Where else are you going to go? Who else is going to help you?" They need to be brought up in the game. They need to be illustrated. And they're not.

So I would've had it set up like:

You wake up. You escape. You go to the Council/Alliance. They say they can't help. Well, sh*t. Now you realize you're stuck. You set off for Freedom's Progress on your own. Maybe you're angry now. On Freedom's Progress you see for yourself TIM was telling the truth. Then you run into Jacob and Miranda. Then you hook up with Cerberus, after realizing there's no other way.

Instead they set it up wrong.

(First off at the time we agree to join Cerberus we haven't even met Joker and Dr. Chakwas yet. We don't know they're working for Cerberus.)

So first you wake up and then TIM tells you there's this new threat and we must do something about it.

1. That's breaking the SHOW, DON'T TELL rule in writing in a big way, but never mind.
2. I don't even trust him yet. Now he's giving me reasons why I MUST work with him based on information HE'S giving me. The first thing I want to do now is get out of here and touch base with the Alliance/Council.

The mistake they made was that you only get to do that after you've agreed to help TIM. That's bad.

Now what's the the Council's reason for turning away help? I'm working with Cerberus. This logic is like a snake eating it's own tail... I can't not work with Cerberus because I'm working with Cerberus...

Modifié par Nightwriter, 29 juin 2010 - 07:35 .

[yummysoap]

Didn't bother reading past the first page because I'm a lazy bastard, so I'm sure this has been covered.



I despise it when time seems to stop still for the protagonist in RPGs, and Bioware are the worst offenders. In Dragon Age you hear people talking about how the Circle Tower is under attack from abominations and that the right of annulment has been called for so that the tower can be raided. Almost a year later, after I've personally dealt with the Elves, wolves, dwarves, Denerim, Redcliffe, etc. that bloody tower is still having the same conundrum oh god why does the bloody right of annulment take so long oh jesus why do you need me to solve all your problems oh god



And that's why these sorts of plot triggers are absolutely necessary and I wholeheartedly support them.

[Zulu_DFA]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Hulk Hsieh wrote...
The missions/squadmates numbers only reflects that "how early Collector make their move to Horizon".
Shepard still go immediately after Collector make their move.

And in the first run which the player doesn't have the metagame knowledge of how to affect Collector invasion time, both "4 missions" or "a lot of missions" actually make sense. It is the enemy's active move.

Actually, after Horizon TIM reveals it as his (which means our side's) active move. So there could have been implemented some disguised trigger, which the player could activate at will. Like Mordin tells you he developed the "countermeasures" and you call TIM to make him happy about the mission progress and like after another mission TIM tells you to go to Horizon (or immediately, if you are through all available missions).

But BioWare went the easy way.

Well, TIM's action is as uncontrollable to the player as the Collectors', which is reasonable according to who he is.
And he does installed Miranda on SR2, who is known to reporting to TIM on Shepard's progress. And after the mission, there is dialog for Shepard to complain to TIM.

I don't think caliing TIM to start Horizon this takes much more effort and a "harder" way. It is few more lines of dialogs afterall, maybe no more than Shepard's complaint on TIM working behind him. However, it would somehow diminish the dynamic betwenn Shepard and TIM they want to show.

What about this paradox: if you recruit Garrus, Jack and Grunt first, then Mordin invents his "countermeasures" IMMEDIATELY after he gets to the Normandy?

Anyway it would be nice to be able to call TIM any time you like, even if only to get another "I'll keep you updated" reassurance. As you said, a few extra lines of dialogue wouldn't be that much of a pain to record. Jacob can call TIM, and you can't? Lame.

[Christmas Ape]

Nightwriter wrote...

A series of perfectly valid points

I can see what you're saying, but I think the gaming public's tolerance for false options is lower than that of the serious RPG fan. Most players aren't going to enjoy an hour or two of running around, loading screens, and "Nope, can't help you". I see the story you're saying would have been more complete, but I don't think it would be well-received by the bulk of the people who bought ME2.

If you had to pick up Liara before you could deal with Benezia for whatever plot reason, would you want Noveria available from the beginning only to stall you out at the passenger tram to Peak 15 until you go deal with Therum?

[Nightwriter]

yummysoap wrote...

Didn't bother reading past the first page because I'm a lazy bastard, so I'm sure this has been covered.

I despise it when time seems to stop still for the protagonist in RPGs, and Bioware are the worst offenders. In Dragon Age you hear people talking about how the Circle Tower is under attack from abominations and that the right of annulment has been called for so that the tower can be raided. Almost a year later, after I've personally dealt with the Elves, wolves, dwarves, Denerim, Redcliffe, etc. that bloody tower is still having the same conundrum oh god why does the bloody right of annulment take so long oh jesus why do you need me to solve all your problems oh god

And that's why these sorts of plot triggers are absolutely necessary and I wholeheartedly support them.

I believe it's called the Take Your Time trope. I've dealt with it so long I no longer care about it or even notice it.

A time-triggered mission is cool first time through, but in successive playthroughs when I know exactly when that mission is going to trigger it gets less exciting. Then it seems almost like a set schedule I'm working around.

[Nightwriter]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
A series of perfectly valid points

I can see what you're saying, but I think the gaming public's tolerance for false options is lower than that of the serious RPG fan. Most players aren't going to enjoy an hour or two of running around, loading screens, and "Nope, can't help you". I see the story you're saying would have been more complete, but I don't think it would be well-received by the bulk of the people who bought ME2.
If you had to pick up Liara before you could deal with Benezia for whatever plot reason, would you want Noveria available from the beginning only to stall you out at the passenger tram to Peak 15 until you go deal with Therum?

Well it's funny you should mention that - I always thought you should have to go to Therum first. (It would give us more dialogue content with Liara for one, and make her romance feel less rushed).

But I get what you're saying.

All I can say is what would've made the game better for me personally. Which is, I guess, all any of us can say. And for me personally, it's important for me to know why I am working with an organization like Cerberus.

And my way, Ash/Kaidan wouldn't get to act like I never even tried to reach the Alliance. The Council wouldn't get to say "Sorry, you're working with Cerberus, can't help you". What's more, I get to escape Lazarus Station, which would have royally messed with Miranda's professional self-image and pissed off TIM, which would be priceless.

[Christmas Ape]

What about this paradox: if you recruit Garrus, Jack and Grunt first, then Mordin invents his "countermeasures" IMMEDIATELY after he gets to the Normandy?

What 'paradox'? There's no established time-frame. If you get him last, Mordin is simply that f***king smart.



Drinking with Ash for Armistice Day, doing side missions all over the galaxy, going to the last plot planet and being locked down on the Citadel on Armistice Day is closer to a paradox, but hailing from the sacred Original Mass Effect I guess it doesn't matter as much.

[Zulu_DFA]

Christmas Ape wrote...

What about this paradox: if you recruit Garrus, Jack and Grunt first, then Mordin invents his "countermeasures" IMMEDIATELY after he gets to the Normandy?

What 'paradox'? There's no established time-frame. If you get him last, Mordin is simply that f***king smart.

Drinking with Ash for Armistice Day, doing side missions all over the galaxy, going to the last plot planet and being locked down on the Citadel on Armistice Day is closer to a paradox, but hailing from the sacred Original Mass Effect I guess it doesn't matter as much.

Agreed.

When I played ME1 for the first time the absense of the concept of time bugged me very much. You see, I'm actually not used to playing "non-linear" games. Then I replayed ME1. And it hit me like a ton of bricks: BioWare are the company of geniues. Any time frame in such game is not undesirable. From me it only makes sense to complete ME1 missions in the following order: Feros-Noveria-Virmire-Therum. But on my 1st playthrough I went to Noveria first and Virmire last. To some Liara fan the only sense is made by going to Therum first and recruiting Liara ASAP.

Now in ME2 they implement this time factor, thus restricting players' freedom to establish their own "canon" stories. And they do it in the most awkward way.

1. Mordin. Since there actually IS an established time-frame (although it's made obvious in another part of the game), your "Mordin is so f***ing smart" argument doesn't hold. It could in Mass Effect Genuine, but in "2" I am not buying it.

2. Horizon. Not triggered before you complete the intitial 4 "Dossier" missions, even though you may be objectively more prepared (have more squadmates recruited and missions complete).

3. The Collector Ship mission may trigger in the middle of your visit to Illium. So the time is already ticking in the "big universe", but is frozen on Illium. (This, BTW, brings back the question what the hell happened to the Normandy's airlock and the decontamination. Why do I have to dock at Illium/Omega 3 times in a row even if I haven't left a single time?)

4. After the Collector Ship mission TIM tells you about the Derelict Reaper and the science team that has stopped reporting back. From the in-game point of view, it's only natural to go there ASAP, and look for survivors. But everyone knows from the metagame knowledge that it's the very worst thing to do. And even here people come and post: "I'm on my first playthrough, and don't wan't to get spoiled but..." and get replied: "DON'T GO TO THE FRIGGIN' REAPER!!!" because the time-frame is magically frozen again.

5. Then, after you complete the Derelict Reaper mission the time-frame starts ticking again and after a while you are presented with the obviously most important decision in the game: hook up the Reaper device to the Normandy. And think what, you get this "Yes/Yes" dialogue wheel! Then this lame story about "all team on the shuttle (incuding the tanked Grunt, apparently, since the he was nice and tight after the attack)", and the Collectors forgetting to bring a timed nuke to the Normandy, and it's kinda obvious, what the consequence of delaying the Omega-4 mission will be.

To sum up, the OP is perfectly right. It is leading the player by the nose, in the worst sense of the expression. There are great games, such as Half-Life, where it's not a problem at all, since it is well known beforehand that you'll be just a passanger. But in the digital Disneyland, known as "Mass Effect 2", it's like "Sorry visitors, this part of our park is closing, please proceed to the Sector B, there are so many new attractions there!"

If they were absolutely poised on making the urgency feel actual, they should have done it the smart way, and introduce the time-frame / big universe concept, that works at all times. It could be based ot the number of mass relay jumps you make plus the fuel spent during sub-cluster travel. Too much travel would result in missed opportunities. But, if it's to compex a system to be put into a game aimed at teenagers, BioWare should have abstained from implementing any time-frame at all, just like it was in ME1.

The "Armistice day paradox" was bad. But the ME2 paradoxes are far worse.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 juin 2010 - 03:11 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'll use the Oblivion example. Here Mehrunes Dagon is opening up Oblivion gates throughout Cyrrodil, and you can do the Main Quest or go about farming these Oblivion gates while everywhere around is under siege, all the while leveling up and upgrading gear to the point where you're invincible. I played through and used the exploit so technically my character could have taken on Mehrunes Dagon (a god) by herself, easily, because her armor and gear reflected around 99% of the damage. You only got hints that you should return to the Main Quest.



This Horizon mission comes not at your convenience. Or the other way they could have done it is to make it so that while you're running around the galaxy the Collectors simply make their move on Horizon and the colony is just destroyed with no survivors. But your boss gets intel and calls you in. So you have to do the job.

[ADLegend21]

I guess being authentic doens't matter to anyone does it? You can get anyone in any oder from the dossiers you're given even if you do agree with Miranda that getting mordin first is a good Idea, Hell I go get grunt or Jack first then Garrus then Mordin then whoever I didn't get first (along with Kasumi and Zaeed) Then Horizon happens, I'm pretty usre you were actually in commander shepard's boots you'd be yelling at Joker to get to that Damn Colony, especially since your Paramour form ME1 is there (if you did that) after Horizon you're given more dossiers and you can go get whoever you want in any order and do any loyalty missions you want in any order. The interrupt for the collector ship was annoying the first time, but again if you were commander shepard and you got a free shot at your main enemy you take it before it passes you by. As for the "Yes/Yes" Dialogue isn't that big of a deal, would you really turn down the only means to getting through the Omega 4 relay that didn't throw you into a black hole or the galactic core? didn't think so. Also, Mordin cures the Plague on any Alien team memebers you bring, he doens't have the collector seeker swarm counter measure. I see alot of ME1 > ME2 going on here and this thread is basically based on that bias. it was so dumb that I was able to do a hand full of UNC Missions and talk to Hacket when I was CLEALRY on the run from the alliance because they locked the norandy down and I stole it to run to Ilos, but oh wait, HAcket needed me to negotiate with darius before hand so I'll do that despite being a fugitive Saren won't touch the coduit before I get to the Mu relay anyway gosh he such a swell nemesis.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It becomes painfully obvious why you have to take that Horizon mission during the Mordin mission. "Collectors want plague. We kill you now." Say the Vorcha. Bioweapon against all races except humans.



I think ME2>ME1. I think at a certain point (like after getting away from the Citadel before Ilos), all other spots should have been locked out. You have to go to Ilos right then. Sorry. Then after the battle of the Citadel, if you want to finish up other missions you should have been allowed to do that. Like they did in ME2.

[Zulu_DFA]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I guess being authentic doens't matter to anyone does it? You can get anyone in any oder from the dossiers you're given even if you do agree with Miranda that getting mordin first is a good Idea, Hell I go get grunt or Jack first then Garrus then Mordin then whoever I didn't get first (along with Kasumi and Zaeed) Then Horizon happens, I'm pretty usre you were actually in commander shepard's boots you'd be yelling at Joker to get to that Damn Colony, especially since your Paramour form ME1 is there (if you did that) after Horizon you're given more dossiers and you can go get whoever you want in any order and do any loyalty missions you want in any order. The interrupt for the collector ship was annoying the first time, but again if you were commander shepard and you got a free shot at your main enemy you take it before it passes you by. As for the "Yes/Yes" Dialogue isn't that big of a deal, would you really turn down the only means to getting through the Omega 4 relay that didn't throw you into a black hole or the galactic core? didn't think so. Also, Mordin cures the Plague on any Alien team memebers you bring, he doens't have the collector seeker swarm counter measure. I see alot of ME1 > ME2 going on here and this thread is basically based on that bias. it was so dumb that I was able to do a hand full of UNC Missions and talk to Hacket when I was CLEALRY on the run from the alliance because they locked the norandy down and I stole it to run to Ilos, but oh wait, HAcket needed me to negotiate with darius before hand so I'll do that despite being a fugitive Saren won't touch the coduit before I get to the Mu relay anyway gosh he such a swell nemesis.

I, for one, do not dispute the necessity of going to Horizon and the Collector ship immediately (unless you are docked at some hub world, when you should not be required to use th Galaxy map to re-dock every time the game takes (forces) you back to the Normandy).

On the contrary, I suggest that going to the Derelict Reaper immediately after the Collector ship makes the most sense.

But in the case of the Derelict Reaper Bioware took one approach: the old Virmire-like, and in the case of Horizon and the Collector ship they took another, new approach: the responsible Commander Shepard has no other choice but to react to the developing situation. And in the case of the Reaper IFF test Bioware took the third approch: there is no developing situation that Commander Shepard has to react to immediately, but still he has only the "no-choice choice".

This does not make any sense.

What I am saying, BioWare should have implemented some disquised triggers that starting from the second playthrough the players can activate at will from their metagame knowledge to bring the "no-choice" situations upon themselves. In the very least, it would make the replayability of ME2 much higher.

Short of that, they shouldn't have implemented any "partial" time-frame into the plot.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 29 juin 2010 - 10:14 .

[Zulu_DFA]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It becomes painfully obvious why you have to take that Horizon mission during the Mordin mission. "Collectors want plague. We kill you now." Say the Vorcha. Bioweapon against all races except humans.

I think ME2>ME1. I think at a certain point (like after getting away from the Citadel before Ilos), all other spots should have been locked out. You have to go to Ilos right then. Sorry. Then after the battle of the Citadel, if you want to finish up other missions you should have been allowed to do that. Like they did in ME2.

Can't disagree with that. This was a real improvement.

But why can't I postpone doing the Grunt's recruitment mission until after the "suicide mission"? Since I obviously don't need to recruit him to compete the game?

[AdamNW]

LaurenIsSoMosh wrote...

AdamNW wrote...
Again, what logical reason is there to delay a test run?  Unless you knew beforehand that the Collectors had poisoned the IFF, there isn't one.

Is it alright if I, the player, say I know what's about to happen and I think it's a a pointless waste of disc space? Can I just call out that entire thing as a complete load of crap? It serves neither a story purpose nor a sufficient gameplay purpose.

Are you trying to say that the test run is pointless, or the IFF in general?

Either way, go learn the plot before you make such idiotic statements.

If BioWare is trying to establish a sense of urgency, this is the wrong way to go about doing it. Providing that same feeling, but with tangible player control, could be as simple as setting up a time structure for selected missions, as with determining if Kelly and other crew members survive.

- If the player goes to Horizon right away, Shepard gets there before the invasion and succeeds in repelling it.
- If the player docks at a hub world for supplies, Shepard gets there during the invasion and has limited success in repelling it.
- If the player completes one or more missions before going, Shepard gets there after the invasion and has no success in repelling it.

This would give the player a wider range of control of the overall success of certain missions. It would reward prepared players as much as it would avoid being a thorn in the side of those who are unprepared. And it would provide just as much, if not more, cinematic feel, that sense of urgency, that we all want.

If the latter occured, the plot wouldn't be able to advance.

Also, that is the exact same concept you were ****ing about earlier.  lol?

[smudboy]

AdamNW wrote...
Are you trying to say that the test run is pointless, or the IFF in general?

Either way, go learn the plot before you make such idiotic statements.

Can you explain to me this plot?  I recall trying to imagine a broken building with the structure in place.

If the latter occured, the plot wouldn't be able to advance.

Also, that is the exact same concept you were ****ing about earlier.  lol?

The plot can advance in any way, shape or mode the narrative wishes.  The question is: will anyone comprehend it?

[Skyblade012]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I guess being authentic doens't matter to anyone does it? You can get anyone in any oder from the dossiers you're given even if you do agree with Miranda that getting mordin first is a good Idea, Hell I go get grunt or Jack first then Garrus then Mordin then whoever I didn't get first (along with Kasumi and Zaeed) Then Horizon happens, I'm pretty usre you were actually in commander shepard's boots you'd be yelling at Joker to get to that Damn Colony, especially since your Paramour form ME1 is there (if you did that) after Horizon you're given more dossiers and you can go get whoever you want in any order and do any loyalty missions you want in any order. The interrupt for the collector ship was annoying the first time, but again if you were commander shepard and you got a free shot at your main enemy you take it before it passes you by. As for the "Yes/Yes" Dialogue isn't that big of a deal, would you really turn down the only means to getting through the Omega 4 relay that didn't throw you into a black hole or the galactic core? didn't think so. Also, Mordin cures the Plague on any Alien team memebers you bring, he doens't have the collector seeker swarm counter measure. I see alot of ME1 > ME2 going on here and this thread is basically based on that bias. it was so dumb that I was able to do a hand full of UNC Missions and talk to Hacket when I was CLEALRY on the run from the alliance because they locked the norandy down and I stole it to run to Ilos, but oh wait, HAcket needed me to negotiate with darius before hand so I'll do that despite being a fugitive Saren won't touch the coduit before I get to the Mu relay anyway gosh he such a swell nemesis.

Authenticity should ALWAYS be a lesser priority to enjoyable gameplay.  That's why we don't have to force Shepard to go to the restroom every few hours, or take a shower after every mission.  It's why Shepard can be beaten to within a half inch of life every thirty seconds with no long term consequences.  The game world should be realistic.  The game itself?  Not so much.  The game is supposed to be fun.

The big question here, is whether you t hink the forced missions are fun.  Personally, I don't.  I like having options, I like being able to explore the world, and I like being able to develop the characters.  Forcing me into missions without giving me any control over them is not something I enjoy.  I much preferred ME1's system.  We could choose what to do, and when to do, for the whole game, up until the run up to the endgame (which was the one thing I disliked about ME1.  It should have let you take a break after Virmire, and warned you that returning and talking to the Council would trigger a point-of-no-return).  It was great.  It let me immerse myself in the world and just have fun.

The magical triggers of ME2 just got on my nerves.  Forcing me to delay picking up one of my favorite team members until its too late to develop hardly any of his character?  Stupid choice.  Being forced to go through ANY mission directly after another one has concluded?  Another stupid choice.  Don't force my progression, BioWare.  I like the story well enough to see it through to the end on my own, I don't need you shoving it down my throat.

[ADLegend21]

Skyblade012 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I guess being authentic doens't matter to anyone does it? You can get anyone in any oder from the dossiers you're given even if you do agree with Miranda that getting mordin first is a good Idea, Hell I go get grunt or Jack first then Garrus then Mordin then whoever I didn't get first (along with Kasumi and Zaeed) Then Horizon happens, I'm pretty usre you were actually in commander shepard's boots you'd be yelling at Joker to get to that Damn Colony, especially since your Paramour form ME1 is there (if you did that) after Horizon you're given more dossiers and you can go get whoever you want in any order and do any loyalty missions you want in any order. The interrupt for the collector ship was annoying the first time, but again if you were commander shepard and you got a free shot at your main enemy you take it before it passes you by. As for the "Yes/Yes" Dialogue isn't that big of a deal, would you really turn down the only means to getting through the Omega 4 relay that didn't throw you into a black hole or the galactic core? didn't think so. Also, Mordin cures the Plague on any Alien team memebers you bring, he doens't have the collector seeker swarm counter measure. I see alot of ME1 > ME2 going on here and this thread is basically based on that bias. it was so dumb that I was able to do a hand full of UNC Missions and talk to Hacket when I was CLEALRY on the run from the alliance because they locked the norandy down and I stole it to run to Ilos, but oh wait, HAcket needed me to negotiate with darius before hand so I'll do that despite being a fugitive Saren won't touch the coduit before I get to the Mu relay anyway gosh he such a swell nemesis.

Authenticity should ALWAYS be a lesser priority to enjoyable gameplay.  That's why we don't have to force Shepard to go to the restroom every few hours, or take a shower after every mission.  It's why Shepard can be beaten to within a half inch of life every thirty seconds with no long term consequences.  The game world should be realistic.  The game itself?  Not so much.  The game is supposed to be fun.

The big question here, is whether you t hink the forced missions are fun.  Personally, I don't.  I like having options, I like being able to explore the world, and I like being able to develop the characters.  Forcing me into missions without giving me any control over them is not something I enjoy.  I much preferred ME1's system.  We could choose what to do, and when to do, for the whole game, up until the run up to the endgame (which was the one thing I disliked about ME1.  It should have let you take a break after Virmire, and warned you that returning and talking to the Council would trigger a point-of-no-return).  It was great.  It let me immerse myself in the world and just have fun.

The magical triggers of ME2 just got on my nerves.  Forcing me to delay picking up one of my favorite team members until its too late to develop hardly any of his character?  Stupid choice.  Being forced to go through ANY mission directly after another one has concluded?  Another stupid choice.  Don't force my progression, BioWare.  I like the story well enough to see it through to the end on my own, I don't need you shoving it down my throat.

so you're saying when TIM said Horizon just went dark and is under attack you'd go "Oh sorry to hear that, I'm gonna go pick up Tali and Samara first though, I'll get to Horizon when I feel like it" even though your entire purpose is to stop the human colonies form being attacked. Same thing witht eh collector ship "oh thanks for telling me their ship got disabled, I'm gonna go get see if I can get grunt to stop freaking out, save Miranda's sister, go find Jacobs father, kill samara's daughter, get tali througha treason trial, and go rob a guy for Kasumi's dead boyfriends greybox but I'm sure their ship will be disabled when I'm gdone with that, see ya TIM. and of course since you didn't want to be forced to go to the collector base you got your crew killed didn't you? looks like someone didn't get that "no one left behind" achievement.