83 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurelet]

Sarah1281 wrote...

GreyWarden36 wrote...

so what would happen if you killed Vaughan in the beginning and took all the blame?

The Alienage still gets shut down but everybody loves you for being a hero and Vaughan isn't in the dungeons.

And Shianni doesn't spend the night getting raped.

[Sarah1281]

Aurelet wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

GreyWarden36 wrote...

so what would happen if you killed Vaughan in the beginning and took all the blame?

The Alienage still gets shut down but everybody loves you for being a hero and Vaughan isn't in the dungeons.

And Shianni doesn't spend the night getting raped.

She was already raped, just...less so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

And you don't get 40 gold sovereigns from Vaughan when he is in the dungeons. You can get that money and still kill him at the same time.

[Sarah1281]

By that point do you REALLY need the 40 sovereigns?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And you don't get 40 gold sovereigns from Vaughan when he is in the dungeons. You can get that money and still kill him at the same time.

My favorite option, personally. Satifies my greed and bloodlust at the same time, and makes me feel like a dirty double-crossing scumbag.

[Azazel005]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I just love it how people only think their own opinion is the valid one.

All opinions by there nature are valid, whether one person defends theirs as opposed to another has no bearing on the validity of an opinion.

Suron wrote...

you.  can't.  leave.  you go off to "rescue" them.  because.  you. HAVE TO.

again..that's what happens yes.  but your point is invalid because you are given NO CHOICE in the matter till you reach vaughn...on whether to leave or kill him.

but keep it comin if you must.

 
I can see a point being made for an option to NOT go and attempt the rescue, however you can't NOT GO, so I agree at that juncture it's a moot.

As a I mentioned before, I sincerely believe that he attempted to bluff the PC, a veiled threat with no genuine consequences. Guards are dead, someone will have to answer for it had Vaughn not been usurped he would have pointed to the elves irregardless of the deal.

[Cypher0020]

Ok I love the CE origin... and I never took the money... I just don't see how anyone could... cept for RP purposes...



But Shianni was raped before the PC and Soris got there right? If you take the money she STILL gets raped?



No.... the man dies on each and every time

[Elhanan]

Suron wrote...

yah and Duncan was a murderer and a thief.  a scum.  a may not have raped anyone, that we know of (I'm sure he didn't) but......see how Duncan turned out to be loved by all that knew him just about.

not saying Vaughn ever would have become like Duncan...but..going off Duncan's origins and whatnot.....he should have been killed instead of conscripted.  But no one argues that.

fact is you can't say that you should know not to trust him..he warns that he must send guards and TELLS YOU TO BE LONG GONE...you didn't make it out in time..not that he gave you much..but regardless.

and as said.it wasn't him that burned the alienage..but Howe.

so arguing that NO CHARACTER should take his word..or select what may be the lesser of two evils (what's better, rape or murder? hard call but...we're talking about a handful of women vs an entire alienage full of elves.)

it's meta-game knowledge that forces that argument...whether you want to admit it to yourself or not.

Funny you keep saying that, but I am not the one with the outside game knowledge of Duncan, nor did I take and manage to keep the bribe. Or did you find a way to RP knowing that you could not get the bribe to Ostagar?

You wish to justify doing so; fine by me. But when you want the writers to be able to see it that way too. and accuse them of poor writing for not implementing this view, that is reaching over the line of scrimmage.

Not saying Vaughn shouldn't die for what he did...but..there's a time and place for that...and at that particular time..given the circumstances..it may not be the best of times for it to happen.

That was the only time I've spared him..all my other characters murder him in the cage after Soris tells them what he did to him and his wife...my city elf spared him only because she wanted to save her loved ones...and thanks to BioWares bad writing...that was **** all over.

as I said the dialogue shouldn't even be there..because regardless of WHY you spared him..you are shoehorned into it being for selfish reasons..and everyone ends up hating you...it's bad writing..end of discussion

Evidently not.....

Modifié par Elhanan, 30 juin 2010 - 06:41 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Mm...from what I can see, the game doesn't really emphasize that you're being ostrasized for accepting gold. The elves despise you for letting Vaughan have his way with Shianni and the other women.



I know the game doesn't seem to let you excuse yourself by saying you did what you did to avoid a purge, but I doubt any of them would care much. You leave a group of women to be brutally raped (and at least one killed for resisting), then the general response is going to be negative from the people closest to those who were hurt.



Rescue the women, though, and if Soris isn't imprisoned he gets abused for his part in it, people blaming him for Vaughan's death and Howe's purge. It's a pity the game doesn't highlight that some of the elves might not care for your return to the alienage. Soris is the only hint that doing the right thing (with the CE) didn't make him a hero in everyone's eyes once the apparent consequences came.

[Patriciachr34]

Shadow, I actually did get the impression that my return was not that favorable with all the elves. My CE killed Vaughn and took the blame. However, when I returned to the alienage, I kept getting comments from people that they didn't believe the "rumors" about me. It turns out that some of the elves did in fact blame me for the purge and only took it out on Soris because they thought I was dead. Soris is even a bit bitter when I chat with him after the slavers defeat. Oh well, you can't win for losing.

[Sarah1281]

I think he is only supposed to be bitter if he was imprisoned.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

does anyone know where Vaughan's chest is?

i can't find it anywhere

[mousestalker]

Vaughan's chest is in his bedroom. Vaughan's bedroom is next door to Howe's.

[Gnoster]

Having played the origin itself through several times, I must admit I have never once thought about taking the deal - be it for money or saving the alienage.

Whether I am playing a male or female character, we're talking about a rapist, kidnapper, murderer, and who knows what else. If I am a good character I would never leave people I know and love to be raped and possibly killed, and if I am an evil character, I would still kill him simply as vengeance for trying to rape me (female CE) or trying to rape my fiance (male CE), nobody gets away with that - money and consequences be damned.

Having read the reactions I agree that however noble your intentions were in taking the deal, once you have killed Vaughn's fathers men (not really his at that point), then you have crossed the line and consequences will come to be (who else would Vaughn blame for it when his father questions the loss of men?).Killing Vaughn and making a "clean" escape with as few living vitnesses as possible is the best way to avoid the alienage being burned by Vaughn or his father in my opinion.

Also as some stated at a point, when you first set out to rescue the other women, then you're pot committed and must see it through. Regarding the bad writing, I see that point also, but I wouldn't want an option to just leave without money after killing all those guards, I would as a RP choice rather have not to try and rescue anyone.

Problem with that last choice is however, how will the entire game continue, since you haven't proven yourself to Duncan at that point (hmm... maybe as an "I never want to experience this again, so I will try to become a grey warden for respect from humans" kind of path?). Kind of reminds me of an old game of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where a friend of mine wanted to play a dwarf troll slayer and he kept having to remake his character because he rushed into every fight hoping to die taking down as big a foe as possible (good RP actually), but it annoyed the crap out of the GM since we never did get on with the actual adventure

Modifié par Gnoster, 30 juin 2010 - 08:02 .

[Sarah1281]

The thing is that he even knows what a bad deal it is given how shocked he is should you accept.

[mousestalker]

I've let Vaughan live exactly once. I was playing a HNM. I wound up reloading the game and killing him anyway. Meta gaming be darned, Vaughan is the slimiest character in the game.

[Sarah1281]

I let him live my first playthrough as a HNF because I didn't choose the right questions for Soris and so only knew his imprisonment had something to do with the riots, because of that I couldn't ask Vaughan about it and get his racist elf rant, and I had no metagaming knowledge. Second playthrough I DID manage to hear something of what happened from Soris and Vaughan started ranting so he died. As far as my HNF was concerned he was just like Sighard's son and she wouldn't put it past Howe to just lock Vaughan up for being inconvenient (although she was a little surprised he was even still alive given what had happened to her own family).

[Elhanan]

I have let Vaughn live many times.

When I firsted started playing, I only have the testimony of a single witness, and one that admits to not having all the facts. But after playing the CE Origin myself, I alter that action to taking his gold, then letting him rot until some other nit releases him. Somehow, that lone witness becomes far more convincing....

[Sarah1281]

You CAN ask Vaughan about what that lone witness says and he pretty much confirms it.

[Miri1984]

I never speak to Soris about what happened at the beginning and always spare Vaughn - RP that my character doesn't know about what happens in the CE origin. In my only CEF playthrough I killed him. No question. But then I was a CEF. I honestly think it would be very, very hard for a CEF NOT to kill him considering what almost happened to her and what happened to Shianni. My HNF when they get to Howe's are totally focused on revenge - my DNF and DR are focused on getting enough support in the landsmeet and Vaughn is useful for a vote. So...

[Elhanan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You CAN ask Vaughan about what that lone witness says and he pretty much confirms it.

heh! The reply is to offer me the funds, which I keep. I then proceed to save the Alienage, knowing that Vaughn is left brooding in his little, little cell.

However, I do wonder if the Landsmeet rep did anything to help him when rescuing her brother. No?! Imagine that....

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Shadow, I actually did get the impression that my return was not that favorable with all the elves. My CE killed Vaughn and took the blame. However, when I returned to the alienage, I kept getting comments from people that they didn't believe the "rumors" about me....

Oh, true, you're right. It just felt really 'passing comment' to me. Maybe if someone had thrown rocks or started frothing obscenities it would have driven the point home, but like you said we only encounter people who are supporting of the PC.

@Sarah - No, Soris is bitter if you spared him jail as well, because he gets blamed for the purge while you are off with the Grey Wardens. If you rescue the slaves and talk to him afterwares, he goes on to say something like "So once again you're the big hero, Cousin. Must be nice always winning."

[Aurelet]

As soon as he spouts off to me about Elves thinking they are People, I gut him like the pig that he is.



In my world, racist d***weeds don't get to live

[Zjarcal]

Aurelet wrote...

As soon as he spouts off to me about Elves thinking they are People, I gut him like the pig that he is.

In my world, racist d***weeds don't get to live

Same here!

That's the great thing here, you don't need metagaming to justify killing him. Just pluck some information out of him and he'll confess he's a racist bastard.