94 réponses à ce sujet

[KalosCast]

Massadonious1 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

Also, wouldn't we have to factor in DLC to determine financial success?

Nah, I'm sure the production cost was too high. They couldn't of made a profit off that.

Psh, yeah. Everybody's doing microtransactions because it's a good deal for the customer.

[InvaderErl]

When was the ME1 2 million figure posted?

Because I think Orchomene is taking that completely out of context.

InvaderErl wrote...

The game is doing fine, let's compare to Fallout 3.

"According to NPD Group the Xbox 360 version hassold 1.14 million units and the PlayStation 3 version has sold 552,000 units as of January 2009.[92] The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.[93]"

That's from a period of October to Jan

Mass Effect 2 made its debut as number one on the UK all-formats charts.[102] On the first day of its release, the game sold half a million copies. BioWare revealed that by the end of the first week, two million copies had been shipped worldwide. NPD Group reported that, for the Xbox 360, 572,100 copies of the game had been sold in the United States alone by the end of January.[citation needed] As of March 31, the sales had reached 1.6 million copies.[103]

From a period of Jan to March.

Just reposting this to keep it on the fresh page.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 juin 2010 - 09:55 .

[Massadonious1]

KalosCast wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

Also, wouldn't we have to factor in DLC to determine financial success?

Nah, I'm sure the production cost was too high. They couldn't of made a profit off that.

Psh, yeah. Everybody's doing microtransactions because it's a good deal for the customer.

[InvaderErl]

Those selfless, selfless game companies.

[Orchomene]

mashavasilec wrote...

Restrictive and intolerant attitude, Orchomene, is when you try to compare two absolutely unrelated sets of data, trying to prove that ME2 is financially unsuccessful. You simply can't compare sales numbers without taking into consideration at least time frame and platforms these games were released on. You can't.

Somebody kill me, why am i writing this?!

I don't see where this is "restrictive and intolerant". I'm not trying to prove that ME2 was financialy unsuccessful. I'm just considering it's difficult to answer now to the question without more input. This is restrictive ?
ME2 is shipped on XBox, so just consider the Xbox sells. Since it's a sequel, one may expect to see a very high percentage of sales in the first weeks. Thus, the result may of course change, but not by far.
MW2 sold 5 mil first week (Xbox) and 10mil on week 20.
DAO sold 1.53mil on week 20 (Xbox).
ME1 sold 1.63mil on week 20.
ME2 sold 1.79mil on week 20.
Thus, going to the shooter way doesn't bring many new customers. More than that, since DAO and MW2 have the PS3 possibility, one can think their sales on XBox could have been higher if there was no possibility to get it on PS3. But it's just an assumption. This is intolerant ?
I'm really sorry to let you face the conclusion : the move to the shooter crowd from BW is a marketing failure. the amount of advertisement put into the game didn't bring more customers.

[KalosCast]

Selling more copies than the previous title, as well as the money brought in my DLC means it's a failure?

I don't think... reality... works the way you think it does, dude.

[Ecael]

Orchomene wrote...

Jigero wrote...

it sold 2 million copies in it's first week, it's far from a failure.

Wrong, it shipped 2 million copies to retailers (numeric and physic). It sold less than ME1 and certainly not one million on PC. EA stated in april that the game sold 1.6 million copies since january (*).
Selling less than ME1 after having dumped the game to appeal to the shooter crowd is not a real success. Dragon Age sold more. ME1 sold more. And looking as other shooters, ME2 remains under RDR, CoD, ... So, it's not a failure as a game, it's a failure as a shooter and a failure comparing last BW games that were more RPG oriented (so a more limited market than shooters).


(*) : http://files.shareho...INAL_LOCKED.pdf

WRONG.



"Mass Effect 2 sold through over 1.6 million package and digital units in the quarter for Europe and North America combined and launched with the Metacritic rating of 96 on the Xbox 360"

...For Electronic Arts only. This is EA's digital distribution site:

EA Digital Store - Mass Effect 2

This is not EA's digital distribution site:

Steam - Mass Effect 2
Impulse - Mass Effect 2
Direct2Drive - Mass Effect 2
GameStop Direct - Mass Effect 2

EA's Digital Store makes up about 5% of the digital market (or possibly less, depending on Impulse's actual numbers). Steam dominates digital distribution - and, like I said before, doesn't release sales figures.

The only real numbers we can analyze are X-Box console sales, because they are much easier to track.

Ecael wrote...

ME2 doesn't sell well: That's because they're not appealing to the RPG fans!
ME2 sells well: That's because they're appealing to the dumb masses!
ME2 sells the same as ME1: That's because their appealing to the masses didn't work!

Modifié par Ecael, 29 juin 2010 - 10:13 .

[InvaderErl]

Orchomene wrote...

mashavasilec wrote...

Restrictive
and intolerant attitude, Orchomene, is when you try to compare two
absolutely unrelated sets of data, trying to prove that ME2 is
financially unsuccessful. You simply can't compare sales numbers without
taking into consideration at least time frame and platforms these games
were released on. You can't.

Somebody kill me, why am i writing
this?!

I don't see where this is "restrictive and
intolerant". I'm not trying to prove that ME2 was financialy
unsuccessful. I'm just considering it's difficult to answer now to the
question without more input. This is restrictive ?
ME2 is shipped on
XBox, so just consider the Xbox sells. Since it's a sequel, one may
expect to see a very high percentage of sales in the first weeks. Thus,
the result may of course change, but not by far.
MW2 sold 5 mil first
week (Xbox) and 10mil on week 20.
DAO sold 1.53mil on week 20
(Xbox).
ME1 sold 1.63mil on week 20.
ME2 sold 1.79mil on week 20.
Thus,
going to the shooter way doesn't bring many new customers. More than
that, since DAO and MW2 have the PS3 possibility, one can think their
sales on XBox could have been higher if there was no possibility to get
it on PS3. But it's just an assumption. This is intolerant ?
I'm
really sorry to let you face the conclusion : the move to the shooter
crowd from BW is a marketing failure. the amount of advertisement put
into the game didn't bring more customers.

That's a rather cynical line of thinking that they only shifted gears to make a shooter as opposed to just making the gameplay better, which indeed needed improvement.

And using Modern Warfare 2 as some kind of standard bearer is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as saying that DAO is some kind of failure on an attempt from Bioware to cash in on World of WarCraft's success.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 juin 2010 - 10:13 .

[Ecael]

Orchomene wrote...

I'm really sorry to let you face the conclusion : the move to the shooter crowd from BW is a marketing failure. the amount of advertisement put into the game didn't bring more customers.

Mass Effect Launch Trailer
Mass Effect 2 Launch Trailer

How many RPG elements can you discern from both of those trailers in comparison to gunfire and explosions?

Mass Effect as a series has been trying to draw the "shooter" crowd ever since release. If they failed now, then they've failed 3 years ago as well.

[Orchomene]

InvaderErl wrote...
That's a rather cynical line of thinking that they only shifted gears to make a shooter as opposed to just making the gameplay better, which indeed needed improvement.

And using Modern Warfare 2 as some kind of standard bearer is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as saying that DAO is some kind of failure on an attempt from Bioware to cash in on World of WarCraft's success.

It's not cynical, it's exactly what they said. I don't have the quote here, but they said they wanted to enlarge the target and touch gamers that don't play RPG. Seeing that ME franchise is between shooter and RPG, one can assume that the target for enlargement is the shooter target.
DAO and MMO have nothing in common since DAO is a single player game. On the other hand, ME2 is a shooter game with some adventure game elements.

Ecael, there is no need to put your show to correct me since I've already done the clarifications. ME2 sold slightly more than ME1 and DAO (which is more a PC game than a console game btw). But only slightly after so much emphasis and marketing to attract the shooter crowd. It's just a miserable failure on the BW side. Now, the said that for ME3 they will put a bit more RPG elements back. That's just because they have seen that there marketing strategy doesn't bring them much more customers. They thus want to get back to what they do well, or at least they say this and try to keep their RPG fanbase.

[InvaderErl]

ME2 has no online which is the primary draw of Modern Warfare.

And Ecael is SPOT ON that the figure would likely be higher if you were to include the major digital distributors who as was stated do not post their sales numbers.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 29 juin 2010 - 10:28 .

[Ecael]

Orchomene wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
That's a rather cynical line of thinking that they only shifted gears to make a shooter as opposed to just making the gameplay better, which indeed needed improvement.

And using Modern Warfare 2 as some kind of standard bearer is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as saying that DAO is some kind of failure on an attempt from Bioware to cash in on World of WarCraft's success.

It's not cynical, it's exactly what they said. I don't have the quote here, but they said they wanted to enlarge the target and touch gamers that don't play RPG. Seeing that ME franchise is between shooter and RPG, one can assume that the target for enlargement is the shooter target.
DAO and MMO have nothing in common since DAO is a single player game. On the other hand, ME2 is a shooter game with some adventure game elements.

Ecael, there is no need to put your show to correct me since I've already done the clarifications. ME2 sold slightly more than ME1 and DAO (which is more a PC game than a console game btw). But only slightly after so much emphasis and marketing to attract the shooter crowd. It's just a miserable failure on the BW side. Now, the said that for ME3 they will put a bit more RPG elements back. That's just because they have seen that there marketing strategy doesn't bring them much more customers. They thus want to get back to what they do well, or at least they say this and try to keep their RPG fanbase.

Ecael wrote...

Mass Effect Launch Trailer
Mass Effect 2 Launch Trailer

How many RPG elements can you discern from both of those trailers in comparison to gunfire and explosions?

Mass Effect as a series has been trying to draw the "shooter" crowd ever since release. If they failed now, then they've failed 3 years ago as well.

Ecael wrote...

ME2 doesn't sell well: That's because they're not appealing to the RPG fans!
ME2 sells well: That's because they're appealing to the dumb masses!
ME2 sells the same as ME1: That's because their appealing to the masses didn't work!

Now, the said that for ME3 they will put a bit more RPG elements back.

And I'm sure Christina Norman must be wondering what RPG elements Mass Effect 2 was actually missing in the first place.

You act as if Microsoft is a terrible marketer even though they forced BioWare to finish Mass Effect 1 to release right before holiday season.

Modifié par Ecael, 29 juin 2010 - 10:30 .

[Merci357]

The lastest EA fiscal report mentioned ME2 as one of the games that had "driven the sales" in 4Q 2010. I guess it's save to say it's far from a financial desaster, especially considering the continued stream of DLC for it. Sure, DLC as microtransactions are a different beast, and likely more profitable since the middle man taking their charges (the retailer) isn't involved.



That said, overall sales of ME2 are lower then DA, since there is no PS3 release. And I'm willing to bet EA get's compensated for this from microsoft. Of course it's reasonable to compare just the xbox numbers, since PC sales figures are impossible to get because of digital distribution. However, do you really think 360 sales are comparable to pc sales - if a game does well on xbox, does it well on the PC also? Isn't it likely that DA did comparatively well on PCs, since it's a game developed for that platform, with console ports as an aftertought? (The march -> november delay was due to this.) Pure speculation, I know, as evidence backed by numbers isn't available.



So, with just the 360 numbers at hand, it did slightly better then ME1 and DA so far. Both aren't considered failures, so why should ME2 be one?

[KalosCast]

Merci brings up a good point. Microsoft gives kickbacks to people who publish with their platform in mind, either with priority release or as an exclusive. Hence why many PS3 games have a number of "lazy port" bugs.

[Felfenix]

RPG appeal? Shooter appeal? Neither are the answer.

Romances are the real selling point! ME3 will appeal to the smutty fanfic reading crowd! We'll see more than just Tali's face! >.>;

Modifié par Felfenix, 29 juin 2010 - 10:41 .

[KalosCast]

Felfenix wrote...

RPG appeal? Shooter appeal? Neither are the answer.

Romances are the real selling point! ME3 will appeal to the smutty fanfic reading crowd! We'll see more than just Tali's face! >.>;

More likely, we'll see everything but Tali's face.

And the creepers rejoiced.

[Ecael]

Felfenix wrote...

RPG appeal? Shooter appeal? Neither are the answer.

Romances are the real selling point! ME3 will appeal to the smutty fanfic reading crowd! We'll see more than just Tali's face! >.>;

Great, now you're going to get the "they dumbed down the game to market to people who like romance and sex scenes" conspirator crowd...

[Merci357]

Ecael wrote...

Now, the said that for ME3 they will put a bit more RPG elements back.

And I'm sure Christina Norman must be wondering what RPG elements Mass Effect 2 was actually missing in the first place.

Emphasis on "We should improve: Richer RPG features"

Modifié par Merci357, 29 juin 2010 - 10:48 .

[Ecael]

Merci357 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Now, the said that for ME3 they will put a bit more RPG elements back.

And I'm sure Christina Norman must be wondering what RPG elements Mass Effect 2 was actually missing in the first place.

Emphasis on "We should improve: Richer RPG features"

As opposed to "Putting RPG features back in the game".

There's also "Same team" (Christina Norman as gameplay design lead, just like in Mass Effect 2) and keeping "Core gameplay" and "Combat-narrative flow".

[Ecael]

mashavasilec wrote...

But they dumbed the romance scenes too..

They did double the number of available romances though...

Heavy risk...