147 réponses à ce sujet

[bluebullets]

If you have read DA: the stolen throne and DA: the calling, how do you feel about....

*******HUGE SPOILER******













killing the architect?

I personally never chose the option because I only dd one playthrough and do not know the outcome. After reading the books, i believe that he has good intentions, and could one day succeed if not killed, while if he is killed, blights will ust continue to come.
I also think this would be a huge risk, because if all the known old gods were destroyed, the wardens would die off, and if there were to be another blight, the world would be obliterated.
On the other hand, his plans could just continue to create blights...


How do you guys fel about killing him?

Modifié par bluebullets, 29 juin 2010 - 10:41 .

[Suron]

I've read both...before I read the calling though I finished my first play and let him live..because he doesn't tell you the ENTIRE plan when he says he's jsut trying to stop the blights also...



after reading the calling..that idiot is dying EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.



his entire idea of turning the entire world into ghouls is the most idiotic and asinine thing I've heard/read..and I can't believe Gaider or Bio would have ANY sane human..much less a Warden actually take his side.



he's a tool and needs to die

[Azazel005]

His "middle ground" is deluded by a lack of human perspective, though whether he needs to die depends on my character.



My human noble let him live, beliving that he can handle him later if he gets out of hand and that he may still be useful.



My Mage finds it's difficult to kill him, he doesn't trust him but nor does he judge others morality. So he lives.



My City Elf cuts him open. No point in letting a future problem pop up that cn be cut in half now.

[Zaros]

Old Gods are limited. The darkspawn can only find so many before they find the last one, and are then left completely alone in the world. However many can die in that time-span, and if helping the architect means saving at least 1 life, I'm willing to do it.

[Fishy]

What make us sentient being is .. We have the option to choose the right side.To do the right thing .
The Architect's wrong.You don't fight fire with fire.Even if like you said he might have good intention. It's at the cost of sentient being life.

Who are you to pretend to do the right thing by killing and torturating and mutating sentient being?It's the easy path.It's easier to pull the trigger than trying to talk and resonate with someone.Just like the force.


Star wars stuff

The dark side it's the easy path to gain power faster.But in the end you just hinder your potential because you want to go to fast.Just like it's easier stealing money to buy that new BMW than working hard to obtain it.Or using stereoid to win that 100 meter sprint than working harder to reach it.

The blight can be defeated.But not like this.

I wish we had an option to simply capture him or tell him how wrong he's.But seing that the only option it's leaving him free or killing him i kill him.

Just like how i think porn it's wrong .. It's call upon our bestial nature.But i'm not a dog humping everything on the street when i'm horny . Anyway i'm done ranting..

It's simply wrong .. Unless you're an animals.

[Xandurpein]

Ultimately the darkspawn are a parasitic lifeform. They cannot exist independently of the races they are modeled on. Even if the darkspawn become sentient they still need to capture and violate women to turn them into broodmothers in order to breed. That is simply not acceptable.

I could possibly accept, or at least embrace the possibility, that sentient darkspawn was meaning well if they agreed to never create another broodmother. But then they would die out and disappear within the span of a generation any way.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 30 juin 2010 - 06:15 .

[BHRamsay]

Who am I to make moral judgments? .... I the guy with the huge sword/two swords/powerful magics who do I have to be?



Honestly one can debate the right and the wrong ...but remember the Darkspawn/ the High Dragon/ Loghian /the architect ...none of these people will show you the slightest mercy if you are defeated by them.

[Arrtis]

Kill him it is easy.And you can see the ending of that action.Him lying on the floor lifeless.As for if you let him live....no one knows for sure what will happen.Does the unknown not scare anyone?

[brewmaster]

The architect has to die. Who would prefer the life of a ghoul?



Even Genevieve and Bregan understand what that means at last.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

So do people who have read the books ever make a decision on whether or not to kill the architect without metagaming?

[brewmaster]

Yeah it's a bit hard to block the metagaming info out. I can't ignore the fact that the maniac is planning genocide.

[Forst1999]

Before reading The Calling i thought about letting him live, but his plan in the novel is just insane. Why exectly is the killing of most humans required? There would be peace, but at a higher price than the blights. There are only two more blights to come, and they get shorter each time.

[Xandurpein]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

So do people who have read the books ever make a decision on whether or not to kill the architect without metagaming?

I would always kill him regarless of having read the book or not. There is simply no room for reformed darkspawn, unless they agree to let their race go extinct because they can't make more broodmothers.

[KnightofPhoenix]

While the reproduction issue is clearly problematic, I would rather not commit a genocide on a race that can have free will and can have a moral sense. But the darkspawn "question" clearly does not have a happy solution and it ends up with how much tolerance one can afford to muster. I realise tolerance, especially when it comes to something like sacrificing even one female to the darkspawn every certain period to ensure coexistence, can be very limited.

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

While the reproduction issue is clearly problematic, I would rather not commit a genocide on a race that can have free will and can have a moral sense. But the darkspawn "question" clearly does not have a happy solution and it ends up with how much tolerance one can afford to muster. I realise tolerance, especially when it comes to something like sacrificing even one female to the darkspawn every certain period to ensure coexistence, can be very limited.

I don't really see this as a problem between races or groups, but between individuals. At not time do I feel that one or even a group of sentient beings wish to procreate gives them the right to violate another sentient being. Wanting desperatley to have babies doesn't excuse rape, even if you fear that it may lead to your family's extinction.

I can see a group of people feel that giving up one female to ensure that they will not all die at the hans of the darkspawn can be seen as the only way out, but that is a choice made under duress. As soon as they have the capacity to resist the darkspawn, any agreement is void. So the only long term goal for me is to prevent the darkspawn from ever making more broodmothers. If that leads to genocide, then I won't lose sleep over it. My tolerance, as you pointed out, is very limited in that repsect.

[Forst1999]

It wouldn't even classify this as genocide. Sure one point of the definition is "Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group", to speak with the UN, but don't letting the darkspawn rob and transfer women into monsters is simply self-defense. If they can't reproduce otherwise, thats sad for them, but not helping them in reproducion is no genocide.

If they could make new darkspawn otherwise, there would be no problem. Maybe a clever guy like the Architect, who changes his kind in many ways, could even find a way to do this?

[Vashur]

I read the books but my female pcs simply cannot allow the architect to live just simply based on what they saw happening in the Deep Roads with the broodmothers. I've never played a male pc but still I think I would have a problem letting a darkspawn go about their *business*. I'm a Grey Warden and it simply is not our business to *allow* darkspawn to live. We are not given the information to be able to judge it to be a good thing.

[Patriciachr34]

He is a darkspawn. He and his kind will taint and destroy the world. It is the very nature of the beast. Whether the architect has "good" intentions or not, the very existence of the darkspawn poses a threat to all living things. For this reason, they cannot be allowed to live.

[mousestalker]

If there were no broodmothers, would there be any darkspawn?



What sane woman would ever consent to become a broodmother?



The existence and procreation of darkspawn is dependent upon the violation of women against their will. The Architect dies every time.



I don't need meta gaming knowledge to reach that conclusion. Encountering Hespith is enough.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xandurpein wrote...
I don't really see this as a problem between races or groups, but between individuals. At not time do I feel that one or even a group of sentient beings wish to procreate gives them the right to violate another sentient being. Wanting desperatley to have babies doesn't excuse rape, even if you fear that it may lead to your family's extinction.

I can see a group of people feel that giving up one female to ensure that they will not all die at the hans of the darkspawn can be seen as the only way out, but that is a choice made under duress. As soon as they have the capacity to resist the darkspawn, any agreement is void. So the only long term goal for me is to prevent the darkspawn from ever making more broodmothers. If that leads to genocide, then I won't lose sleep over it. My tolerance, as you pointed out, is very limited in that repsect.

The problem with the analogy is that humans do not need to rape to have kids. Darkspawn do not have any other choice. No one is talking about rights. We are talking about necessity. The darkspawn frankly wouldn't care about percieved "rights" when their existence is in danger and nor should they.
 
Your way will inevitably lead to war, I am sure you realise that. And it's a war where one side has to be utterly destroyed. So one can imagine the staggaring loss of life on both sides should this occur. And seeing how the darkspawn are in the middle of a war that threatens their very existence, their reproductive needs would multiply and so would their need to take more of our women, which they will take undiscriminately. A cornered beast is known for its ferocity.
 
So is that better? One might think so and it would be understandable.

I personally prefer to try and coexist, even if it means we have to sacrifice a few of our females for this to happen (1 broodmother can give birth to thousands, so their reproductive needs are not so high, when they are not at war). A horrible act that I would hate to do with every fiber of my being even if those females sacrificed are some of the worst criminals I can imagine, there is no doubt about it. But it's an act that I think at least has a chance of creating a situation that is better than the alternative (genocidal war).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 juin 2010 - 04:43 .

[mousestalker]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I personally prefer to try and coexist, even if it means we have to sacrifice a few of our females for this to happen (1 broodmother can give birth to thousands, so their reproductive needs are not so high, when they are not at war). A horrible act that I would hate to do with every fiber of my being even if those females sacrificed are some of the worst criminals I can imagine, there is no doubt about it. But it's an act that I think at least has a chance of creating a situation that is better than the alternative (genocidal war).

It's very easy to volunteer other people.

[Lara Denton]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I personally prefer to try and coexist, even if it means we have to sacrifice a few of our females for this to happen (1 broodmother can give birth to thousands, so their reproductive needs are not so high, when they are not at war). A horrible act that I would hate to do with every fiber of my being even if those females sacrificed are some of the worst criminals I can imagine, there is no doubt about it. But it's an act that I think at least has a chance of creating a situation that is better than the alternative (genocidal war).

That is sooo gross. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

I do not take it easily at all and I fully realise how horrible the act is. The way I see it however, the alternative would result in countless thousands of deaths and more of our women being taken. Unless someone finds a way to annihilate the darkspawn compeltely and so quickly as they wouldn't be able to retaliate, I do not see how a war for survival with the darkspawn would be less horrible and destructive, than the alternative where a few are sacrificed. A very ugly solution. But it's the only solution I can see for now.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 juin 2010 - 05:01 .

[Lara Denton]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I do not take it easily at all and I fully realise how horrible the act is. The way I see it however, the alternative would result in countless thousands of deaths and more of our women being taken. Unless someone finds a way to annihilate the darkspawn compeltely and so quickly as they wouldn't be able to retaliate, I do not see how a war for survival with the darkspawn would be less horrible and destructive, than the alternative where a few are sacrificed. A very ugly solution. But it's the only solution I can see until now.

Oh, come on, don't even try to justify that. 
Ewwwwww.... 

[Suron]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

He is a darkspawn. He and his kind will taint and destroy the world. It is the very nature of the beast. Whether the architect has "good" intentions or not, the very existence of the darkspawn poses a threat to all living things. For this reason, they cannot be allowed to live.

funny you should say that..considering his "good intentions" are to do just what you say....corrupt the WORLD so that EVERYONE is like darkspawn..thinking if it was like that that everyone would live peacefully with darkspawn.

kinda reminds ya of hitler...make everyone of the same race/species/whatever in order to save the world!  ok it's a bit of a stretch but...not as much as you may think.

there is nothing good about his intentions