147 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

The dwarves will fall long before the humans and elves do because of the proximity.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 04 juillet 2010 - 09:47 .

[thesuperdarkone]

When does it say that helping the architect means no elves left?

@Sarah: if the architect lives, then darkspawn sightings become rare, meaning no darkspawn to harm the dwarves and thus dwarves live

[Herr Uhl]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

@Sarah: if the architect lives, then darkspawn sightings become rare, meaning no darkspawn to harm the dwarves and thus dwarves live

I thought that was about darkspawn on the surface. And them not attacking is more ominous than anything.

[Sarah1281]

His book plan that we're never specifically told he's abandoned would certainly rid the world of everything that wasn't tainted.

[battle hunger]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

@aurelet:
I believe that by sparing the architect, you are creating a new race of intelligent darkspawn that are willing to be good, as shown by the messenger, and you are helping to stop the blights. Even though there are only 2 left, who is to say that someone will be able to stop the blight in time, as codexes say that blights last for years and cost many lives, with the first one being 96 years. If the architect lives, then the blights will become a thing of the past, darkspawn sightings become rare as shown by the ending and thus this means that darkspawn are becoming rare and avoiding contact with others, which I see as a benfit and why I always spare him, unlike that idiot toegoff who deserves a fail award for failing.

He also says that the mother is not something he can prevent when awakening darkspawns, some simply go mad after they stop hearing the old gods' song.  So if he continue awakening darkspawns, he'll continue creating errors like the mother, and he has proven he cannot handle those errors. Is letting a few darkspawns choose their moral compass, which I find in itself completely worthless anyway as their race's functionality (in both their means of reproduction and how they blight unwillingly anyone that interacts with them) forces them to be ''evil'' in a way, really worth what happened to Amanrathine to happens elsewhere?

[SithLordExarKun]

Suron wrote...

Zaros wrote...

Suron wrote...

laradenton wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I do not take it easily at all and I fully realise how horrible the act is. The way I see it however, the alternative would result in countless thousands of deaths and more of our women being taken. Unless someone finds a way to annihilate the darkspawn compeltely and so quickly as they wouldn't be able to retaliate, I do not see how a war for survival with the darkspawn would be less horrible and destructive, than the alternative where a few are sacrificed. A very ugly solution. But it's the only solution I can see until now.

Oh, come on, don't even try to justify that. 
Ewwwwww.... 

lol..I love how idiotic the supporters make themselves...it's worth "sacrificing" a few women to co-exist?  what if you were one of those women..or your daughter?  or wife?

if you truly believe that....while I realize it's just a game..but if you HONESTLY feel that way...DON'T EVER HAVE CHILDREN...this world doesn't need your mentality spread..it's ****ed up enough.

It's pretty rude to call people idiotic simply for expressing their opinions . Anyway, who is to say that The Architect hasn't had a change of heart between The Calling and Awakening? Maybe he now sees how foolish his old plan was, and has come up wwith something new now? It's a pretty huge gamble no matter what way you look at it, but considering how we have the ability to mow through 100s of darkspawn without batting an eye, and The Architect is only one (not counting his pet dwarf and pet elf), it's probably not too much to assume that we ccan always cut him down later if we don't agree with his methods.

rude? HA!

I make no ****ing apologies to someone that thinks Rape, Slavery, and Kidnapping are "acceptable" in any extreme..even if the basis for that admition is from a video game.

nor do I give a **** if someone thinks I'm being rude by pointing out what a waste of life such a person is.

Aren't you getting over emotional over an opinion where the said individual is merely expressing his opinion in a situation where he would choose the lesser of two evils? I read his posts, no where did he endorsed rape and slavery and you are treating it at such.

I don't agree with his opinion, but i don't get emotional and call him a waste of life.

There are many many things out there far far worse than rape and slavery.

[Mikka-chan]

Mmm. Facing the architect, I can say 'I am glad you exist to raise these issues. I think the world would be better if there was peaceful existence between darkspawn and humans, that the Old God's could rest and we never had to worry about another blight. I think the idea of trying to find a way to peace is a worthy goal.'



....'But until Darkspawn reproduction happens another way, no. No no no no no.' There is no justification for willfully handing over woman to be raped and otherwise violated, no matter if they're 'criminals' or 'evil'... or poor, or elves, or not pretty enough, or barren, or etc etc etc. As we've already Godwined the thread, that does bring back thoughts of WWII, or a thousand other wars and battles. I consider myself something of a mediator: while I wouldn't call myself pacifistic, I am someone who believes that all problems can be solved without violence, and if it 'can''t, then something has gone very very wrong. Even I, though, cannot come up with anyway to hold together a society that is based around offering up a 'few' woman every month or so to become broodmothers.



...If the Warden could keep an eye on the Architect: 'okay, fine, but you're going to stay with me and we're going to work together with this and figure out if a solution to this problem is possible', I would spare him. But the Architect disappears, and there's no way to figure out what in the world he is doing and what other horrors could be springing up. So... yes, I can't imagine sparing the Architect.



Sadly, my Warden's are not psychic. So sometimes they do. For all but the most blindingly naive and optimistic, I imagine they regret it.

[AntiChri5]

What people seem to be forgetting is progress.



As time goes on humans, dwarves and qunari (doubtfull for elves, as the only organised group is more concerned with reclaiming history) will only develop more and more sophisticated technology.



The qunari already have cannon.



Are the Darkspawn developing and progressing? Yes, but only through the Architect. Remove the Architect and the Darkspawn are left without sentience, and therefore cannot develop new technologies or weapons. They will still be a mindless horde charging us with swords when we have muskets.



The Darkspawn can only ever be our enemies, their method of reproduction assures that. What would you rather, a sentien enemy who can develop new weapons and tactics or a mindless isiot with a sword?

[thesuperdarkone]

But would you rather face an enemy that you can settle issues diplomatically or a race of savage creatures who only care about fighting and will always lead to conflict?

[Sarah1281]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

But would you rather face an enemy that you can settle issues diplomatically or a race of savage creatures who only care about fighting and will always lead to conflict?

I'm not convinced that there is a diplomatic way to deal with the darkspawn besides outright appeasement.

[battle hunger]

AntiChri5 wrote...


The Darkspawn can only ever be our enemies, their method of reproduction assures that. What would you rather, a sentien enemy who can develop new weapons and tactics or a mindless isiot with a sword?

exactly what I'm thinking, sentient darkspawn are not something good for the future of Thedas in my book.

[Tirigon]

mousestalker wrote...

Far better and more practical to just slaughter any Darkspawn you encounter.

Sure.
That way of thinking is the reason why humanity has never seen periods of peace that lasted longer than about 70 years without a few wars in between. And even that only in limited areas. Globally, there has never been peace yet.

Maybe it´s better to slaughter every human you encounter instead:police:

[Tirigon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And how does he propose to do that? Darkspawn cannot reproduce on their own and tainted humans cannot either.

Darkspan can´t, Grey Wardens can. The chances for a pregnancy are less than for normal humans, but considdering that humanity grows far too fast and ruins the world with its huge numbers that´s a good thing rather than a bad one, imo.

[Tirigon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

What people seem to be forgetting is progress.

As time goes on humans, dwarves and qunari (doubtfull for elves, as the only organised group is more concerned with reclaiming history) will only develop more and more sophisticated technology.

The qunari already have cannon.

Are the Darkspawn developing and progressing? Yes, but only through the Architect. Remove the Architect and the Darkspawn are left without sentience, and therefore cannot develop new technologies or weapons. They will still be a mindless horde charging us with swords when we have muskets.

The Darkspawn can only ever be our enemies, their method of reproduction assures that. What would you rather, a sentien enemy who can develop new weapons and tactics or a mindless isiot with a sword?

What YOU forget is numbers.

Cannons and rifles are nice against swordsmen, but not if the enemy has more warriors than you have bullets...

Also, flying dragons, magic and shrieks who are invisible until they kill their first target make fire weapons much less effective than in real life.

I´d take an enchanted dragonbone sword like Maric´s over a machine gun every time when facing darkspawn

Modifié par Tirigon, 03 juillet 2010 - 09:23 .

[Eudaemonium]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Are the Darkspawn developing and progressing? Yes, but only through the Architect. Remove the Architect and the Darkspawn are left without sentience, and therefore cannot develop new technologies or weapons. They will still be a mindless horde charging us with swords when we have muskets.

See, I significantly doubt whether sparing the Architect or not will make much impact on whether the darkspawn become sentient - it might slow it down or speed it up, but he had assistants who could continue his work (like The Seeker, who we never meet). The very fact we, as players, are given the choice means it seems quite unlikely that it will have a significant effect on the future. Particularly since his right-hand darkspawn is mentioned a fair few times and never appears. Then there is Seranni. I hope she appears in the future too.

[mousestalker]

Tirigon wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

What people seem to be forgetting is progress.

As time goes on humans, dwarves and qunari (doubtfull for elves, as the only organised group is more concerned with reclaiming history) will only develop more and more sophisticated technology.

The qunari already have cannon.

Are the Darkspawn developing and progressing? Yes, but only through the Architect. Remove the Architect and the Darkspawn are left without sentience, and therefore cannot develop new technologies or weapons. They will still be a mindless horde charging us with swords when we have muskets.

The Darkspawn can only ever be our enemies, their method of reproduction assures that. What would you rather, a sentien enemy who can develop new weapons and tactics or a mindless isiot with a sword?

What YOU forget is numbers.

Cannons and rifles are nice against swordsmen, but not if the enemy has more warriors than you have bullets...

Also, flying dragons, magic and shrieks who are invisible until they kill their first target make fire weapons much less effective than in real life.

I´d take an enchanted dragonbone sword like Maric´s over a machine gun every time when facing darkspawn

I'd rather have an FN/FAL myself, but ideally I'd want a really big sword and an automatic weapon, and flamethrowers and white phosphorus grenades and a pony that shoots laser beams.

Modifié par mousestalker, 03 juillet 2010 - 11:10 .

[Herr Uhl]

mousestalker wrote...

I'd rather have an FN/FAL myself, but ideally I'd want a really big sword and an automatic weapon, and flamethrowers and white phosphorus grenades and a pony unicorn that shoots laser beams.

Now I agree.

[Tirigon]

I don´t like the Fal. Give me MP7.

[Miri1984]

David Gaider has said that TWO wardens cannot have children by natural means. If everyone's a warden that means No More Human Babies. The architect's plan (the one in the Calling) means humanity dies.

[LupusYondergirl]

Miri1984 wrote...

David Gaider has said that TWO wardens cannot have children by natural means. If everyone's a warden that means No More Human Babies. The architect's plan (the one in the Calling) means humanity dies.

Or elven, for that matter.  Maybe even dwarven, too, if Orzammar was also tainted.  Which, in the long long term would mean the end of darkspawn as well since they would have no women to make into broodmothers.

The Architect really isn't one for thinking things through, is he?  I guess being the world's smartest darkspawn puts him slightly ahead of the assastant bandit outside Lothering.

[Miri1984]

It's that thing he's got stuck through his head. Impedes logic somewhat.

[BroBear Berbil]

I don't even have to consider his ultimate plans to decide he deserves death. What he has done already is more than enough to warrant it. He's the reason for the last blight and on top of that he awakened darkspawn making the ones he's affected even more dangerous. Even if he's killed the awakened could possibly continue what he's done. Also, let's not forget that he preys on wardens to make it all possible.



In my mind, Darkspawn simply cannot coexist with the other races. Ultimately, they have to be wiped out and I have no moral qualms about it. Darkspawn have no souls after all. He confirms, beyond any doubt (because there was some if you talk to Alistair at Ostagar), that Old Gods become Archdemons. I'd rather have 2 blights with a mindless horde that is scattered afterwords than awakened darkspawn running around, but again I think the story leaves plenty of room for that to happen anyway.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

OnionXI wrote...

In my mind, Darkspawn simply cannot coexist with the other races. Ultimately, they have to be wiped out and I have no moral qualms about it.

You have no moral qualms about slaughtering a sentient creature because it carries a (for want of a better term) deadly and catching disease?

Hmm...

Elves used to be immortal until humans came along. Now not only can they get sick, their lives have been cut short and the majority of them live in slavery.

Similaries abound.

[nos_astra]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
You have no moral qualms about slaughtering a sentient creature because it carries a (for want of a better term) deadly and catching disease?

More like because their existence cannot be reconciled with life. The taint is more than a disease, it is spreaded death, it can even affect the earth beneath your feet.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 juillet 2010 - 08:05 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

klarabella wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
You have no moral qualms about slaughtering a sentient creature because it carries a (for want of a better term) deadly and catching disease?

More like because their existence cannot be reconciled with life. The taint is more than a disease, it is spreaded death, it can even affect the earth beneath your feet.

I forgot that last point. Good call.

But I have to say that I would trouble killing something just for being what it is. Killing out of necessity isn't the same as having no moral qualms about it.