147 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

SEE A DARKSPAWN, KILL A DARKSPAWN. -in the fine print of being a warden 101.



Didnt give a rip about him, his plan was dumb, he was dumb, and the collective group of diseased parasites he has is DDDUUMMB. I aint losing sleep about it DS are nothing but a disease that must be destroyed.



UH that was very Space Marine of me, now I am going to go play with puppies or something to get that Fervor off of me.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Did it ever occur to you all that do kill him that maybe sparring him would go with your plans to commit genocide upon the Darkspawn/ They go along with mine quite smoothly.

I don't know if the risk is worth the reward imagine a few more botched experiments, or one on an Archdemon creating an Archdemon that has more awareness but it insane. I do see the upside to letting him live and "research" in peace, but it isn't something I would really risk. Yes them being in civil war and seperate tribes certainly helps crush them, but it also has a terrible terrible downside if the Architect is manipulating you, or if he cannot control his creations. The Grey Wardens are 5-0 versus the Archdemons, and with each Blight the darkspawn are getting weaker it isn't flat out said, but if you read the codexs and read between the lines. The darkspawn are being defeated slowly but surely each Blight has lasted shorter than the previous. How much are you willing to risk to speed it up? The lives you could save could be forfeit either way if the Architect fails or betrays you, and you are back to where you started. I guess we won't know what is the most efficent choice unless Bioware lets us know, but the way I see it is taking an extra risk that could backfire horribly.

As for the Broodmothers I would certainly care. Imagine a women you care for being snatched and being violated until she transformed into a broodmother. Even Marjoliane doesn't deserve that fate.

[Aurelet]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The Architect has already proven his plan will lead to infighting among the Darkspawn. I believe he is simply incapable of uniting all those he would transform under him. He might win in the following war, he might not ( and then your problem with him is solved, for even those that killed him would eventually start fighting among themselves and without his knowledge there would be no more disciples created ).

Actually, since you kill the Mother, the Darkspawn that were following her would go back to their Hive mentality and follow the next strongest leader they have.  Instant war stopper there

[Costin_Razvan]

but the way I see it is taking an extra risk that could backfire horribly.

Risk plays a part in a every military and political decision, some times it is greater other times not so much but it is always there great or small.

As for the Broodmothers I would certainly care. Imagine a women you care for being snatched and being violated until she transformed into a broodmother. Even Marjoliane doesn't deserve that fate.

Then perhaps I shall stun you by simply saying I would be willing to sacrifice even the women I hold dear, that is if I was certain a lasting peace with the Darkspawn could be attained ( which I do not )

When the choice for me is to sacrifice the few for the many then I would do without hating myself or flinching from it. When the choice I have to make concerns the welfare of many thousands then I throw aside my morality, my personal feelings and whatever moral qualm I would have about. I look at the choice with a critical cold eye and take the one that seems best. Let the Nightmares and Regret comes later, I will not flinch from doing what needs to be done because of my own personal selfishness.

That is how I see it, not that I begrudge anyone who does not feel like this.

 Actually, since you kill the Mother, the Darkspawn that were following her would go back to their Hive mentality and follow the next strongest leader they have.  Instant war stopper there

The Disciples are not mindless beasts. They have free will and prove they can think and make decisions on who to side with on their own. That's the big problem with the Architect's plan: Many will not join his grand plan and even stand against it like the Mother did.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 02:43 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Wow Costin you sir are indeed an perfect example of a Utilitarian.

[Aurelet]

But there is no other to side with. Only the architect

[Giggles_Manically]

I would actually care about Awakening if it felt less like my Warden had descended from Mount Olympus to deign with mere mortals and poke the foolish people who think they are his foes.



Blight I laugh at it, at level 35 you can blast whole legions of spawn.



Besides guy was a cheap excuse as a villian, and then they wanted me to trust him? Um no,

[Costin_Razvan]

"Siding" with the architect merely let's him live and allows him to help you against the Mother....although I do admire his goal I cannot help but feel he is being incredibly stupid when shows up there and lands near the Warden. He could have easily fled but the idiot stands and fight if you want to kill him...."sigh."

Obviously there would be the problem of tracking him down, but hey my Warden defeated a Blight almost single-handedly, I believe I can track down a single darkspawn easily.

 Besides guy was a cheap excuse as a villian, and then they wanted me to trust him? Um no,

Bioware really fails at making villains you can symphathize with, honestly. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 03:00 .

[Sarah1281]

Obviously there would be the problem of tracking him down, but hey my Warden defeated a Blight almost single-handedly, I believe I can track down a single darkspawn easily.

Any luck finding Morrigan?

[Costin_Razvan]

Why would you assume Duran would even try that. Since he is created in my very imagine as a character and personality I would say he would feel his duty to remain in Orzammar to fight the Darkspawn and retake more Thaigs.



Besides, he buried his love for Morrigan the moment she left after the Blight. She has her path to thread as does he, if the intertwine again we shall see. Duty calls above all else.

[Sarah1281]

I'm not assuming you did. It's just that all those people going to go find her haven't succeeded so far and she's got to be probably easier to find than the Architect as you get little updates on her 'seen in Orlais' 'seen in the Frostback Mountains' and because she likely won't retreat deep underground.

[Costin_Razvan]

Not saying it will be easy tracking him down... but I think it far easier to track down someone who has a distinct group with him rather then a single woman who can turn into any animal she wants at will.

[Miri1984]

Bioware really fails at making villains you can symphathize with, honestly. 

I have a lot of sympathy for Loghain. Despite my sig.

[JergenKajaton]

Others have already stated my position, but I'll go ahead and add my voice to the choir: The Architect's "compromise" is to turn all humans/humanoids into ghouls. This is not an acceptable compromise to me, even if I'm RPing as an evil character. I can't imagine being evil enough to sell out my species like that.

Besides, if the Archdemons really are the Old Gods (I'm not sure if this has been conclusively established via lore, but most evidence seems to point in that direction), then there are only two blights left. And Thedas survived the first five just fine (well, maybe not just fine, but it survived). Humanity has a pretty good track record against blights. I'd rather let it take its chances against the remaining two than pay such a horrible price to stop them from happening. It's by far the lesser evil.

And so, the Architect dies. Every time.

[Costin_Razvan]

I have a lot of sympathy for Loghain. Despite my sig.

Loghain is only a villain out of the many they created for their games so far.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[Miri1984]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I have a lot of sympathy for Loghain. Despite my sig.

Loghain is only a villain out of the many they created for their games so far.

I have a small pair of tweezers that can help you split those hairs a bit finer if you like .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I don't have much sympathy for Loghain, actually, but I have never read the books. From the perspective of the game, I found it hard to have much liking for him. His only real 'moment' with me was a banter with Dog.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Still, the mother was the architect's fault!

The architect fought her.

After he created her and lost control of her.

Mistakes happen. Even big ones. At least he tried to help rectify this; plenty of people in the real world do not when their plans go awry.

[Sarah1281]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

Still, the mother was the architect's fault!

The architect fought her.

After he created her and lost control of her.

Mistakes happen. Even big ones. At least he tried to help rectify this; plenty of people in the real world do not when their plans go awry.

 She was actively trying to screw with his plans and kill him. That's not so much moral fiber in trying to stop her as self-preservation and self-interest.

Edit: And I'm of the opinion that the Architect's seemingly-chronic epic 'mistakes' make him too dangerous to keep around, even had I believed his plan was possible and in non-darkspawn's best interest.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 07 juillet 2010 - 01:58 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't have much sympathy for Loghain, actually, but I have never read the books. From the perspective of the game, I found it hard to have much liking for him. His only real 'moment' with me was a banter with Dog.

As Maeves_Child said:

 All right haters, see if you can hate him now. I dare you.

[ImoenBaby]

Costin_Razvan wrote...


Then perhaps I shall stun you by simply saying I would be willing to sacrifice even the women I hold dear, that is if I was certain a lasting peace with the Darkspawn could be attained ( which I do not )

...

When the choice for me is to sacrifice the few for the many then I would do without hating myself or flinching from it. When the choice I have to make concerns the welfare of many thousands then I throw aside my morality, my personal feelings and whatever moral qualm I would have about. I look at the choice with a critical cold eye and take the one that seems best. Let the Nightmares and Regret comes later, I will not flinch from doing what needs to be done because of my own personal selfishness.

Yes, Costin, I'm sure you'd **participate** in your mother's rape and murder. (/sarcasm) That's what "sacrifice" actually means here, by the way.

It's interesting that you separate morality from critical calculation.  It's also falacious. We are the choices we make, and moral creatures cannot magically abstract themselves into a disinterested perspective. Your choices ARE your "personal selfishness," your supposed amorality is itself a moral choice.  Would you seriously choose to participate, instead of resist? This is a forum. It's okay to admit typing in the heat of the moment.

Fighting (and dying/being dragged off for Broodmotherdom) against an army of mass rapists and murderers is one thing. Collaborating with your own rapists and murderers? Despicable.

[Costin_Razvan]

Nice way to spin my words to make it seem like I would enjoy that kind of thing. ( and I have seen my share of rape - never caught those that did it - first hand thank you, but I don't allow that to govern my choices in life ) As I said, and noted, I would only do such a thing if a peace with the Darkspawn would seem a reality, not a far fetched dream. If such a peace could be obtained I would be saving tens of thousands ( perhaps even more ) lives from the sixth and seventh Blight. ( and no, I do not believe such a peace feasible even though I seriously considered it once ).

You also make it seem like I wouldn't regret such a decision, quite frankly I would but I would still believe it was the right choice.

Intention behind a choice ALWAYS matters, try and remember that before you call anyone a rapist or would be rapist please.

Back to the original point of this thread however ( since this whole argument is off-topic anyway, as I do not spare him to seek peace with the Darkspawn but rather to weaken them for the war that will come ). How can the book really make him look more sympathetic? He wants to MURDER a third of the population of the Thedas ( assuming every transformation wouldn't result in more then 1 death ). That would result in the death of millions of people, more casualties then all the Blights so far combined I wager, how can anyone view that in a good light?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 juillet 2010 - 10:49 .

[Tirigon]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I aint losing sleep about it DS are nothing but a disease that must be destroyed.

I sometimes think the same about humanity.