203 réponses à ce sujet

[BellatrixLugosi]

lazuli wrote...

Ecael wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and I just noticed what the last bit of that complaint about the lack of puzzles said: "..and I’m guessing that Mass Effect 2 only has about half the dialogue as Mass Effect."  

Jesus Christ.

This is supposed to an example of a "good" review. 

More like a completely uninformed review.

Mass Effect 2 has nearly twice the amount of dialogue as Mass Effect 1. Anyone can extract all the sound files and figure this out for themselves.

Does this include the Codex voice-overs?

Dialogue is twice as long as mass effect 1 regardless of codex Entires.  And not that it would matter anyway

[Ecael]

lazuli wrote...

Ecael wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and I just noticed what the last bit of that complaint about the lack of puzzles said: "..and I’m guessing that Mass Effect 2 only has about half the dialogue as Mass Effect."  

Jesus Christ.

This is supposed to an example of a "good" review. 

More like a completely uninformed review.

Mass Effect 2 has nearly twice the amount of dialogue as Mass Effect 1. Anyone can extract all the sound files and figure this out for themselves.

Does this include the Codex voice-overs?

Yes.

[lazuli]

Ecael wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Ecael wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and I just noticed what the last bit of that complaint about the lack of puzzles said: "..and I’m guessing that Mass Effect 2 only has about half the dialogue as Mass Effect."  

Jesus Christ.

This is supposed to an example of a "good" review. 

More like a completely uninformed review.

Mass Effect 2 has nearly twice the amount of dialogue as Mass Effect 1. Anyone can extract all the sound files and figure this out for themselves.

Does this include the Codex voice-overs?

Yes.

Thanks.  I just realized ME1 had Codex voice-overs as well (for primary entries).

[smudboy]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

[BellatrixLugosi]

lazuli wrote...

Ecael wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Ecael wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and I just noticed what the last bit of that complaint about the lack of puzzles said: "..and I’m guessing that Mass Effect 2 only has about half the dialogue as Mass Effect."  

Jesus Christ.

This is supposed to an example of a "good" review. 

More like a completely uninformed review.

Mass Effect 2 has nearly twice the amount of dialogue as Mass Effect 1. Anyone can extract all the sound files and figure this out for themselves.

Does this include the Codex voice-overs?

Yes.

Thanks.  I just realized ME1 had Codex voice-overs as well (for primary entries).

(nods)

[didymos1120]

lazuli wrote...

Does this include the Codex voice-overs?

Doesn't really matter.  They're only a small fraction of the dialogue in either game.  Besides, I'm fairly certain all the ones from ME1 are in ME2. In any case they added some new narrated entries.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
Where were all these alleged ME1 puzzles?  The Towers of Hanoi thingie on Noveria?  Ok, that's one.

Noveria was awesome. Particularly Peak 15. You could do that single mission alone by at least three different paths. One of them was avoiding a shooting gallery. Is there a way to avoid a shooting gallery in any mission of ME2?

Hmm. I suppose that's kinda like Port Hanshan (which I'm dubious about granting puzzle status to anyway), but then again, Benezia was either in the Hot Labs, or behind those suspiciously locked doors blocking access to all those rooms you can see on the map.  To me, though, that's kinda like saying that the fact that you have two paths to take when traipsing up the Citadel tower in the end (Do I kill those Geth, or go over here and kill these Krogan?) means that that sequence constitutes a puzzle.  But, OK: four and a half puzzles then?  

As to avoidable fights, what does that have to do with anything?  We were talking about puzzles, or rather the distinct lack of them in ME1.

Also, I think Noveria was awesome too.  Not that that matters.

Modifié par didymos1120, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:48 .

[BellatrixLugosi]

smudboy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

So make an observation.  All we see is you complaining about Me2 without comparing it to Me1 accurately.  You are purposefully tip toeing around the issues of Me1 just to complain about Me2.  Why?

[didymos1120]

smudboy wrote...
Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

OK, wait: where'd Zulu go all of a sudden?

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

It doesn't take even half a brain to complain non-stop about everything.

[NICKjnp]

didymos1120 wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

OK, wait: where'd Zulu go all of a sudden?

I know...

[BellatrixLugosi]

slimgrin wrote...

Just a thought in reference to a common theme I see on these forums. I say this with complete respect to all parties concerned, with no bias or ill will toward any of my fellow forumites:

A dissenting opinion does not justify being called a 'whiner'

It is, if someone doesn't supply a good basis for the arguement.  This is just a show its a joke in a quise of trying to be serious

[Ecael]

slimgrin wrote...

Just a thought in reference to a common theme I see on these forums. I say this with complete respect to all parties concerned, with no bias or ill will toward any of my fellow forumites:

A dissenting opinion does not justify being called a 'whiner'

A dissenting opinion ought to be backed up with valid information, not wild speculation and accusation toward the people who developed the game.

[Inthatplace]

Meh, the only plothole that bothers me is how there are Scions on the Reaper.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

I can understand from BW's point of view that "completeness" and "consistency" comes second to all round "sellability" (and they succeeded). Since any issues of obvious inconsistency of story or worldly phenomena are largely apparent only under the microscope AFTERWARDS.



That said, I agree, that a consistent and tight story goes A LONG WAY to catalysing my imagination.



What I mean by that is this: If the foundation physics for the ME universe is fantastic, I can accept that and SUSPEND JUDGEMENT (I can't know either way). But, if I must suspend judgement on too many other notes within the universe and storyline then I begin to suspect that the vision of the ME universe is not just fantastic (A fantasy proposition on it's own is not beyond our conception because dreaming is an activity we do ourselves naturally which shows us things that we are clearly not involved in, in any coherent way) but groundless.



A story can be fantastic, but that doesn't mean it's groundless or baseless. When the fantastic proposition has somewhat well defined limits we can accept it and integrate it into our conception and it becomes "playable". When, however, a story has badly defined or constantly burgeoning limits then it becomes much harder to integrate and "play with" in any coherent way.



So, too many plotholes IS bad.. but it's all a matter of how "defining" to the ME universe proposition they are.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

slimgrin wrote...
You invite hellfire.

Wod I say?                                                                                                                

[pprrff]

I don't think there are major gaping plot holes in ME, there are a few things here there that can pretty much be convincingly explained in the a few line of codex. Special mention to the way the writer treated physics in this game (especially in ME1). Its one of the few Sci-Fi where the science of everything is well thought out. Things that have real life counter part are pretty accurate like diffraction of laser base weapons, excess heat from ship. Even the more 'magical' part like element zero is at least kept consistent.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]Ecael wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]Ecael wrote...

You've already contradicted yourself several times in the last hour.[/quote]

Like?
[/quote]
You just said you care about the plot, and then you mention shooting galleries.
[/quote]
Shooting galleries are events. Events make a plot.

1. Shepard talks to Person A - shoots a bunch of people - shoots another bunch of people - talks to person B - talks to person C - kills it - talks to person D - pushes a big red button - shoots another bunch of... well, people - exits level.

2. Shepard talks to Person A - talks to persons E, F, G - shoots a bunch of people - shoots another bunch of people - talks to persons F & E - talks to person B - talks to person C - kills it - talks to person D - pushes a big red button - shoots another bunch of people - exits level.

3. Shepard talks to Person A - talks to person D - pushes a big red button - shoots a bunch of people - shoots another bunch of people - shoots another bunch of people - talks to person B - talks to person C - kills it - exits level.

These are three different mini-plots behind Peak 15 mission. And all shooting galleries perfectly fit with the mini-plot, which in turn fits well into the main plot of ME1 and the universe of ME1.

In ME2 shooting galleries are standalone, dialogues are standalone, plot is standalone and the universe is standalone. Then there is this standalone planet mining minigame, which alone is a huge black -


Given the nature of our discussion, how my raising the question about the relation between the plot and the shooting galleries is a contradition to myself?


[quote]Ecael wrote...
You also said that BioWare nudges other companies to giving them good reviews, and then quote a review on a BioWare game from a person who didn't appear to play half of the game.
[/quote]
I've got it covered already but you seem to have missed it. Here we go:

[quote] Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. I have not accused. It's a prerogative of the district attorney. I just stated the fact that everybody does this.

2. Not the reviews. The "scores" and "ratings". They are based on reviews, yes, but there is more to it.

3. I'm sure Mr. Carter's review didn't make into any rating, So it's sort of his humble opinion, just like yours here, or mine. I brought it up to illustrate that there is a third person that thinks the way me and Smuboy think. And Darth Drago, and Skullbonemaster, and others who come up to complain & whine in the "Disappointment with ME2" thread. And if you have for at least a shortes moment thought that we all may be one and the same person, think of it this way: We Are Legion!

4. Finally, I'm not saying that Casey Hudson comes at whoever publishes the "rating" and just asks "How much?" There is more subtle and complex methods, that allow to draw up quite precise figures in the business plan.

Therefore, when having a discussion with another person about something, express your own opinions, borrow from the opinions of others but don't refer to the commercial values. It is (a) bad taste, and ( like telling a friend who is asking for your advice: "Game A actually feels slightly more enjoyable than Game B, but game B is $10 cheaper, and has the same rating as Game A, therefore Game B is overall better."[/quote]
Where is the contradiction in quoting another person's opinion and inferring that the "96%" figure the http://masseffect.bi....com/negligence page is sporting in its upper right corner is not entirely based on persons' opinions but also on the money factor? Should I send 2 cents your way or what?

[quote]Ecael wrote...
And then you say they spent less time and effort on the gameplay and used that time to spend less time on the plot, and then go ahead to combine the two anyway.[/quote]
Sorry, can't make sense out of this one. Definitly I am not saying it. If I do, please tell me the thread, page # and the elapsed time of my post, where I'm stating anything like that. Maybe you have just misunderstood me and need clarification.

But there are more important things requiring you immediate attention. There is a -

in your "Ultimate Guide"!



[quote]NICKjnp wrote...
link[/quote]


But kids like play vvvverrrry tough, thinking it's a lot of fun. So here they are, headbutting kroganz left & right. Kids  BioWare.


[quote]didymos1120 wrote...
But, OK: four and a half puzzles then?  
[/quote]
I'm not stating that the quoted excerpt is accurate in its assessment of the number of puzzles in ME and "2". But it definitely illustrates what kind of impression the "2" leaves in some people.



[quote]Inthatplace wrote...
Meh, the only plothole that bothers me is how there are Scions on the Reaper.[/quote]

indeed.



[quote]pprrff wrote...
Even the more 'magical' part like element zero is at least kept consistent.[/quote]
Not in ME2.



[quote]BellatrixLugosi wrote...

[/quote]

WOWOW!!! I'm getting popular!






[quote]NICKjnp wrote...

[quote]didymos1120 wrote...
[quote]smudboy wrote...
[/quote]
OK, wait: where'd Zulu go all of a sudden?

[/quote]

I know...[/quote]

RULES OF CONDUCT, Art. 8.

No impersonating staff, moderators or other Community members. Attempting to pose as a BioWare or Electronic Arts employee, an employee of any of affiliates, a volunteer forum moderator or any other registered user will not be tolerated and will result in the deletion of that username. This also applies to variations of registered names. A person or persons found to impersonate others may be banned from these forums at the discretion of the staff.

...
SНIТ!!! Airstrikes imminent!
[puts on his old-fashioned steel helmet again]

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:00 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

you're nicely monopolizing the thread with that spam Zulu.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 01 juillet 2010 - 05:43 .

[BellaStrega]

smudboy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

Oh yes it does have a plot.

The plot is about pulling a team of highly skilled bastards, killers, and misfits together to put a stop to the Collectors' collecting. The Collector plot ties the recruitment plot together and gives it context, but is not strictly the central plot of this installment, even if it is part of the larger central plot of the Mass Effect trilogy (which is learning about and stopping the Reapers).

Modifié par BellaStrega, 01 juillet 2010 - 05:42 .

[Zulu_DFA]

BellaStrega wrote...

smudboy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

Oh yes it does have a plot.

The plot is about pulling a team of highly skilled bastards, killers, and misfits together to put a stop to the Collectors' collecting. The Collector plot ties the recruitment plot together and gives it context, but is not strictly the central plot of this installment, even if it is part of the larger central plot of the Mass Effect trilogy (which is learning about and stopping the Reapers).

More like this.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juillet 2010 - 05:46 .

[pprrff]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

BellaStrega wrote...

smudboy wrote...

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I just want to know whats the point of the complaining the way zulu does. Its not going to change the mind of us who don't ridiculously high standards for a GAME. And its certainly not going to change the course of the development if you can't point out how it is a bad game. You are nitpicking small elements of storyline and small game issues to say this is a paralyzing problem when pretty much a large portion of the gaming world disagree's with your BS

Catharsis.

We (I) have no intention of changing your mind.  Since we have no personal interest in "things" to be good or bad.  We make observations, and come to conclusions based on those observations.  Our brains have this wonderful function of taking a step back and going, "hmm?"

There is no paralyzing problem with ME2's plot.  That is impossible: there is no plot.

Oh yes it does have a plot.

The plot is about pulling a team of highly skilled bastards, killers, and misfits together to put a stop to the Collectors' collecting. The Collector plot ties the recruitment plot together and gives it context, but is not strictly the central plot of this installment, even if it is part of the larger central plot of the Mass Effect trilogy (which is learning about and stopping the Reapers).

More like this.

I hope that was suppose to be a compliment, because that movie is THE best piece of satirical work EVER.
MONTAGE SONG ----- classic

Modifié par pprrff, 01 juillet 2010 - 05:58 .

[Pacifien]

I once saw a krogan drink a liquified turian. No one came out of that one looking pretty.