103 réponses à ce sujet

[Landline]

Alphyn wrote...
It's also doing favours for them to accept your trust and lead.

Garrus and Tali already accept Shepard's lead, but they aren't okay with working for Cerberus, plus Cerberus rebuilding him/her doesn't really help in trusting him/her.

Everyone else, it's just basically getting them to trust you, and, as you said, remove any disctractions the squad is having.

Garrus is actually pretty okay with it depending on what you say to him, and if you encountered them in ME1.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Landline wrote...
1) She is not forced to like Shepard, if he does something to loose her loyalty the romance is cut off, besides, how are the other ME2 romances any different?

3) How did Tali "run away?" She was there when the Normandy was destroyed, or so Jacob says. What was she suppost to do? Shepard was dead and she was just a stray quarian and, depending on your choices, her pilgramage was done.

4) You jsut contradicted your first post. In this you admit that she does not have to like Shepard no matter what and that she does have some backbone and a mind of her own. And just an FYI, morality is subjective to the individual, and you can't expect everyone to see your logic. Bassically you're complaing that she doesn't let you mold her into whatever you think she should be.

1) This has nothing to do with the romance. In ME1 my dudeShep was a total jackass to Tali, and by the end of the game she wouldn't talk to him anymore other than saying how she was leaving as soon as the mission ended. Lo and behold when ME2 comes along she thinks he's some kind of knight in shining armor.

2) My meaning was that Liara fought to reclaim Shepard's body. Tali went about her own business and moved on. Which one is more loyal? That's my only point.

3) I didn't contradict anything. Tali is forced into liking Shepard in ME2. The writers do give you another opportunity to lose that, though. And it's the same situation as in ME1. Don't do exactly what she wants and she hates you, regardless of why you disobey her or how you justify it. My point was that she has the mentality of a spoiled princess. It doesn't matter what you do or how you explain your actions; if you don't do exactly what she wants then she hates you.

This is the no spoiler section so I won't go into too much detail about her trial, but what Tali asks you to do is insanely selfish and unethical. BioWare writes that whole scenario as if Tali's friendship is the only important thing about the quest, and that common sense and honesty are really bad because that makes Tali dislike you.

Sorry, but purposely covering up and hiding war crimes from a ruling party because some twit of an engineer girl doesn't want her daddy to posthumously get in trouble is ridiculous, and Tali's reaction to revealing the truth is beyond damning to her character. She makes it perfectly clear that all she cares about is getting what she wants, and that's what she thinks true friendship is: you giving her what she wants.

[Calculatrice]

phonypapercut wrote...

thepiebaker wrote...

people like tali because she's like a 12 year old and they're all pedophiles

Based on the links in your sig, I'm going to guess you're like a 12 year old as well.

Start running.
-snip-

The anime, phone? Or the Chambers love?

[FourSixEight]

thepiebaker wrote...

people like tali because she's like a 12 year old and they're all pedophiles

[Naltair]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
2) My meaning was that Liara fought to reclaim Shepard's body. Tali went about her own business and moved on. Which one is more loyal? That's my only point.

This is an unfair point how is Tali to know that there was any possible way of bringing Shepard back?  This could be applied to anyone that was on the Normandy SR1 and does not serve your argument.  Liara was dedicated that is for damn sure but she is also pretty obsessive as we see with her actions in ME2. 

Your other points are interesting but this one is a little weak and probably should be discarded.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Naltair wrote...
This is an unfair point how is Tali to know that there was any possible way of bringing Shepard back?  This could be applied to anyone that was on the Normandy SR1 and does not serve your argument.  Liara was dedicated that is for damn sure but she is also pretty obsessive as we see with her actions in ME2. 

Your other points are interesting but this one is a little weak and probably should be discarded.

I know it's unfair.
That was kind of the point. Saying that Tali and Garrus are "more loyal to Shepard" than any of the others is not a valid argument, as BioWare manipulates all of the characters into suiting their story arc, not the individual characters.

So, yes, please do discard this point. Discard it from both sides.

[Azint]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

2) My meaning was that Liara fought to reclaim Shepard's body. Tali went about her own business and moved on. Which one is more loyal? That's my only point.

Your definitions of "loyalty" and "obsession" may be blurred.

[NICKjnp]

Not everyone likes her....

Video 1
Video 2
Video 3

Modifié par NICKjnp, 01 juillet 2010 - 02:57 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Azint wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

2) My meaning was that Liara fought to reclaim Shepard's body. Tali went about her own business and moved on. Which one is more loyal? That's my only point.

Your definitions of "loyalty" and "obsession" may be blurred.

Really?  I woud argue that when someone is "obsessed" with something that they are fiercely loyal to the object of their obsession.

Would you disagree?

[Naltair]

But this thread is pretty pointless the reasons people like her are as varied as any other character and the same goes for those that dislike her or any other character in this setting.

[NICKjnp]

Mystranna there are so many things I wanted to type to Azint..... but I'm holding the words back.... must contain outburst... MUST CONTAIN.

[Naltair]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Really?  I woud argue that when someone is "obsessed" with something that they are fiercely loyal to the object of their obsession.

Would you disagree?

I don't disagree, I don't think that Liara has a healthy outlook on things but sure I can see where you are taking this.

[Azint]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Really?  I woud argue that when someone is "obsessed" with something that they are fiercely loyal to the object of their obsession.

Would you disagree?

Without a doubt Liara is the most loyal character, having been responsible for recovering Shepard's body. It can also be argued that she is obsessed, for having to suffer through so much to recover Shepard's body. The point I am making is that you should not hold it against anyone that they are not as "loyal" as Liara, because in most cases when someone close to them dies; they move on. Everyone simply moved on when Shepard died, that is normal behavior. What is not normal is to go through to make sure that this person has their body recovered, having suffered so much personal trauma to do so. That can be considered more than just loyalty, obsession maybe.

Edit: I see this may end up going in circles, so I'll do so as well. Discard if you must.

Modifié par Azint, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:09 .

[Azint]

NICKjnp wrote...

Mystranna there are so many things I wanted to type to Azint..... but I'm holding the words back.... must contain outburst... MUST CONTAIN.

Oh please do, we wouldn't want to get this tension of yours to hurt you now would we?

[Naltair]

She already discarded that point, the idea of loyalty is probably not something that serves either side.

[Calculatrice]

NICKjnp wrote...

Mystranna there are so many things I wanted to type to Azint..... but I'm holding the words back.... must contain outburst... MUST CONTAIN.

It's people like you who give everyone here bad reputations. Azint in a better man that you or me, and trust me, he's as knowledgeable as one can get around here. Before you spam a message like this, think of the meaning it will serve to everyone reading the thread. It doesn't serve one, does it? So why do you post it?

[NICKjnp]

A Tali fan accuses someone of obsession... hypocrisy! There... now it is out of my system.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:16 .

[Naltair]

I don't see this thread going anywhere good.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Azint wrote...
Without a doubt Liara is the most loyal character

Right, and yet Liara is not on the squad for ME2.

So, clearly, loyalty is not directly connected to being on the squad, and thus Tali and Garrus are not "more loyal" for being there in ME2.

So, as I said, discard the loyalty argument from both sides of the issue.

As for there being a difference between "obsession" and "loyalty", there really isn't a difference. The source of the loyalty is completely inconsequential. Why is Tali loyal? You could never use her at all in ME1, deny her the geth data, tell Udina you don't want her, AND tell her not to study your technology and she will still somehow be "loyal". It's not like Tali's so-called "loyalty" is any more valid than Liara's. It's a videogame and BioWare controls the characters to suit the story and not the other way around.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 01 juillet 2010 - 03:15 .

[Calculatrice]

NICKjnp wrote...

A Tali fan occuses someone of obsession... hypocrisy! There... now it is out of my system.

You're taking a few outspoken fanatics and giving the entire fan base the same viewpoint as them. This is definitely not the case. I can't speak for others, but from the experiences in the thread, most of us are the not "crazed fanatics" you make us out to be. You, sir, are trolling. It is plain and simple. If you do not have anything to add to the conversation, I'm alerting a mod.

[faction699]

here is why people like Tali:



1-She is female

2-She is "vulnerable"

3-She shows interest in you when none of the other characters do

4-Shes somewhat socially awkward, just like most of the people who are obsessed with her



thats the jist of it



she's literally the dream girl of millions of awkward male gamers

[Naltair]

I am not socially awkward but I don't think I obsess over her either. I do like her character, but I also like Legion, Garrus, Liara... and well there are not many if any characters I really don't like.



I really like Jack and wish I could be her buddy.

[smecky-kitteh]

faction699 wrote...

here is why people like Tali:

1-She is female
2-She is "vulnerable"
3-She shows interest in you when none of the other characters do
4-Shes somewhat socially awkward, just like most of the people who are obsessed with her

thats the jist of it

she's literally the dream girl of millions of awkward male gamers

this is extremely biased.