48 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

ADLegend21 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

No one on the team could've possibly deduced they'd target earth.

funny Because mordin was on my team when he came to that conclusion. so you're doubting the intelligence of Dr. Solus?

It's a canned line, as far as I know: everyone says it.  And yes, I question the logic behind such a deduction.  (In so far as stating it's an induction.)

[Zulu_DFA]

Good question is:

Is the Collector Ship really that big, and the pods so multiple?

I mean, even if it's 2 km long and has a radius of, say, 100 meters, it's volume is roughly 30 000 000 cubic meters. And even if all of it is stuffed with the pods 1 cubic meter each, it means only as many humans. Which means it'd take hundreds of Collector Ships to harvest Earth.

Correct me anyone if I screwed up the math.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[smudboy]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Good question is:

Is the Collector Ship really that big, and the pods so multiple?

I mean, even if it's 2 km long and has a radius of, say, 100 meters, it's volume is roughly 1 200 000 cubic meters. And even if all of it is stuffed with the pods 1 cubic meter each, it means only as many humans. Which means it'd take thousands of Collector Ships to harvest Earth.

Even to harvest Eden Prime or Terra Nova at one time, it'd take several Collector Ships.

Correct me anyone if I screwed up the math.

It's a combination of simple observations (innumerable pods?  How high can one count from a casual observation?) and understanding that the logistics, time, and about a few other variables to show how this jump in logic is so huge.  Since all anyone knows of the Collectors at that point is 1) they have the Cruiser, 2) they target small colonies in the Terminis system.

"It's so big!  They're going to target Earth!"

Right.

[Zulu_DFA]

smudboy wrote...
Right.

Hey, I did screw up the math a little!

Guess, a Collector ship (even if it's a bit smaller than my estimate and has some room on it for the... ship, you know) can harvest any Alliance colony, but not Earth.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juillet 2010 - 06:57 .

[SSV Enterprise]

The Collectors probably had more ships to do the deed.

[Zulu_DFA]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

The Collectors probably had more ships to do the deed.

How many more?

2? 5? 100? It's still not enough to harvest Earth.

[wizardryforever]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

The Collectors probably had more ships to do the deed.

How many more?

2? 5? 100? It's still not enough to harvest Earth.

I was under the impression that it wouldn't be all at once, and not without support.  Because the whole idea of harvesting Earth would require massive resources, and yet we know that they need millions or more humans to finish their human-based reaper.  The only place with that many humans is Earth.  So it does make sense that they would eventually target Earth.  Though what we saw in game isn't enough, there's no reason why there can't be more that we didn't see in our vast galaxy.  Maybe when Harbinger says, "we will find another way," he is referring to harvesting humans to build the reaper, not finding a way to get back to the Milky Way.

[Zulu_DFA]

wizardryforever wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

The Collectors probably had more ships to do the deed.

How many more?

2? 5? 100? It's still not enough to harvest Earth.

I was under the impression that it wouldn't be all at once, and not without support.  Because the whole idea of harvesting Earth would require massive resources, and yet we know that they need millions or more humans to finish their human-based reaper.  The only place with that many humans is Earth.  So it does make sense that they would eventually target Earth.  Though what we saw in game isn't enough, there's no reason why there can't be more that we didn't see in our vast galaxy.  Maybe when Harbinger says, "we will find another way," he is referring to harvesting humans to build the reaper, not finding a way to get back to the Milky Way.

The eventual goal of the Reaprers is to harvest all spacefaring life. And no doubt they will be capable of it, once they return in force to the Galaxy. But the Collectors were sort of their listening post in the Galaxy, and it's a safe guess we've seen pretty all or most of it. There maybe a couple of Collector ships more, but without the Base, they won't play any role.


On another note, Harbinger's "We will find another way" looks like poor writing. Seems the Reapers are at the disadvantage already, and need to think up something new. Why wouldn't Harbinger say "We will use another way", like they've already got something in mind? Would be more creepy.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 juillet 2010 - 08:39 .

[Annihilator27]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SSV Enterprise wrote...

The Collectors probably had more ships to do the deed.

How many more?

2? 5? 100? It's still not enough to harvest Earth.

I was under the impression that it wouldn't be all at once, and not without support.  Because the whole idea of harvesting Earth would require massive resources, and yet we know that they need millions or more humans to finish their human-based reaper.  The only place with that many humans is Earth.  So it does make sense that they would eventually target Earth.  Though what we saw in game isn't enough, there's no reason why there can't be more that we didn't see in our vast galaxy.  Maybe when Harbinger says, "we will find another way," he is referring to harvesting humans to build the reaper, not finding a way to get back to the Milky Way.

The eventual goal of the Reaprers is to Harvest all spacefring life. And no doubt they will be capable of it, once they return in force to the Galaxy. But the Collectors were sort of their listening post in the Galaxy, and it's a safe guess we've seen most of it. There maybe a couple of Collector ships more, but without the Base, they wont play any role.


On another note , Harbinger's "We will find another way" looks like poor writing. Seems the Reapers are at the disadvantage already, and need to think up something new. Why wouldn't Harbinger say "We will use another way", like they've already got something in mind? Would be more creepy.

I took as that shepard failed in stopping the reapers and that they will find another way of getting there/ and or completing the cycle. I mean they are reapers they aint going to let somethingstop them. So now they are on their way to finish the job.

[BatarianBob]

Darion_Blackhammer wrote...

I really think everyone is reading a *little* too much into one line ... it was an assumed guess -made under shocking circumstances - based on numbers needed vs. numbers available ... that's really about it.

Pretty much.  Something sounds implausible, and it doesn't happen.

The problem is.....?

[Inquisitor Recon]

If they went to earth, Hackett would just blow the collector ship to hell and then wonder "WTF was that thing?" Not much of a threat to entire fleets!

[TelexFerra]

We don't know what the Collectors would have done had Shepard not intervened.



They may have been planning the attack on Earth when Shepard stormed in and crashed Normandy right into their backs.



How they planned to get past Earth's defenses? I'm sure they have a plot shield somewhere.

[wizardryforever]

TelexFerra wrote...

We don't know what the Collectors would have done had Shepard not intervened.

They may have been planning the attack on Earth when Shepard stormed in and crashed Normandy right into their backs.

How they planned to get past Earth's defenses? I'm sure they have a plot shield somewhere.

Oh come on, give Bioware some credit here.  The Collectors as we saw them in the game would be no match for the Alliance fleet.  So I highly doubt that they would simply storm in there and slug it out, especially if they were going to do it with only the resources we saw in game.  I for one don't think we saw everything that they planned to use, and we may see more collectors in ME3, based out of a different part of the galaxy.  Perhaps the "base" we saw was only their construction yard and hangar, and they are actually based somewhere else in the core?  I don't know, but I highly doubt we uncovered all of their plans.  There was almost certainly more to it.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 01 juillet 2010 - 10:09 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

How many more?

2? 5? 100? It's still not enough to harvest Earth.

I'd say around 50 to 100 may be enough.  Collector particle beams will be a huge advantage against capital ships since kinetic barriers can't defend against them and Alliance cruisers and dreadnoughts are too big to evade.

[Inquisitor Recon]

50 to 100? Even that is pushing it. The SA probably has more cruisers than that, and while the Normandy was packing state of the art firepower and defenses, she is still just a frigate.

[ADLegend21]

you do realize that the collectors shut down the technology and communications before they reacha planet, then they release the seeker swarms and once they've covered the planet and stung everyone the actual collectors roll in and pick up the humans. it's highly possible for the collectors to target earth and actually succeed. Once comms are down the fleets are on their own and the collector ships guns are powerful enough to cut through top of the line armor in the alliance before the Fleets know what to do.

[SSV Enterprise]

ReconTeam wrote...

50 to 100? Even that is pushing it. The SA probably has more cruisers than that, and while the Normandy was packing state of the art firepower and defenses, she is still just a frigate.

Not really, the Thanix cannon upgrade is supposed to give the SR-2 the firepower of a high-end cruiser.

[Captain Crash]

errr one reaper took out the Citadel fleet and a lot of humanity's cruisers. Someone counted like 200-300ish Reapers at the end screen all similar size to sovereign. Plus according to sovereign "our numbers will darken the sky" so clearly there will be a lot more then that. The Reaper fleet uses secrecy for machine efficiency. Seclude colonies and planets and take them out one by one. Less resistance and less possibility of a counter attack which could destroy a few of them. Although Shepard has eliminated this secrecy the fleet they have will certainly have enough fire power to destroy any fleet thrown at them. Yes they may suffer losses more then any other cycle but raw fire power alone wont defeat them.  

Modifié par Captain Crash, 01 juillet 2010 - 10:52 .

[NKKKK]

You know people, there are a lot of colonies out there that could've completed the human reaper without going to earth.

[wizardryforever]

NKKKK wrote...

You know people, there are a lot of colonies out there that could've completed the human reaper without going to earth.

We don't know that for certain, as it is never said exactly how many humans are needed to complete the Reaper.  EDI only says, "millions, perhaps more."  That's kind of vague, especially for an AI, which are known for being really precise.
I suspect that the Collectors would use some kind of jamming technology, perhaps something acquired from the Reapers, to momentarily disable the Charon relay after traveling through it.  They would then destroy any token defenses in place (Earth isn't really prepared for a surprise attack, as I understand), and collect as many humans as they could.  Although, they would need more than the one ship to carry off enough of the population.  So they probably have more somewhere.

[Mongerty]

NKKKK wrote...

You know people, there are a lot of colonies out there that could've completed the human reaper without going to earth.

Like what? The impression given is that Earth has the majority of the human population still.

[NKKKK]

There had to be some left in the Terminus systems, if that's up, go to the ones in the skyllians verge (Eden Prime, Mindoir, etc).



But I wasn't making a case for or against Earth, they have jamming technology and their ship is capable of carrying tens of thousands.

[Darion_Blackhammer]

OMG! Did anyone else notice that the scars on Garrus' face aren't EXACTLY above the section of his armor that's broken? Can we get some lackluster physicists and geometry majors to suck all the fun out of that fact as well? ... I mean, since we're talking about one of the most pointless topics imaginable already...

[BatarianBob]

Mongerty wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

You know people, there are a lot of colonies out there that could've completed the human reaper without going to earth.

Like what? The impression given is that Earth has the majority of the human population still.

The only number given is "millions".  Even if the human population remained stable from now until 2185, which it won't, 100 million colonials would still leave a vast majority of the species on Earth.