104 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I want things to make sense. Clear, concise writing, which a space opera (or at least a title which is trying to be one) requires.
For ME2, I wanted a sequel that continues where the last game left off, not a reboot/Shepard's Excellent Rockband Roadtrip.
Shepard was rather static in the first game as well. He's essentially the traditional mute-RPG protagonist, with a voice actor/actress (if that makes any sense.) More player-association, or some jazz like that. Because "this is Shepard's story: your story", or something. If the protagonist is not integral to the plot, then we have to personally care for them as a character/person in some thematic or personal way in order for there to be drama; but we don't, so there isn't.

So you're saying that there's also no point to all those random crew around the Normandy who can't even be talked to?

Christ on a bike, do you ever stop whining? They're just fluff; deal with it.

I'm not.

I know.

I have.

What's your broken, Mr. Cyber Jesus on a Shuttle (with his 12 useless people, generating a massive plot hole in the process?)

So you don't like ME2's plot at all? Why, then, do you incessantly whine about it when you know it won't achieve anything? Do you just like trolling people here?

Trying to like/dislike ME2's plot is like trying to enjoy the vacuum of space, or appreciate a pile of rubble.

I don't partciularily care for your opinion, let alone, what I intend to achieve with my posts.  I simply do it because I like it.

Am I trolling you?  I apologize.

Modifié par smudboy, 02 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Someone could argue that there's no need for the characters after every mission to show up being healed as Chakwas is not a central character and is just there to make some coherency for the obvious fact that a warship needs a medic but well, it's smudboy being smudboy.

[bthillman]

Wow, this thread got all kinds of derailed- really quick.

[The Enkindler]

I like the added extras in the background games like Mass Effect have or things thrown in just to make it seem more real or authentic. Like the mission to get Dr. Chakwas some brandy. It serves no plot purpose, but I WANT to do it anyway because somehow she makes it worth it.



And somehow when the crew gets abducted, I strangely feel compelled to get Dr. Chakwas back again. Has she worked her spell on me? Yes probably. Seeing a familiar character from ME1 and having an attachment helped make Mass Effect 2 seem like a proper continuation, rather than having an all new game full of strangers.



How exactly she comes to work for cerberus - obviously it's explained by the Illusive Man's quest to rebuild Shepard and give him everything to make him/her the same as before - including building a ship to the same design spec as Normandy 1 and getting Dr. Chakwas and Joker - they were obviously "approached" for recruitment. I doubt they went to the Job Centre and stood in a queue at the Cerberus kiosk. The specific details are irrelevant for my enjoyment. If they get elaborated on in future character development i.e. more drunken tales from the Dr, then I welcome them.



Other games I've played are just so linear or bland (e.g. no NPCs in the background or characters to just do random fluff missions for). I even liked to do those random missions like talking the hanar priest off the promenade (and the multiple ways to do it like paying it off, convincing it that it's doing wrong or threatening it). And that ME1 mission with the woman's baby and her brother in law wanting it genetically modified - having them show up in ME2 in the background at Sirta Foundation was great! It's like pay off to see the results of your choices.



And finally, I'd like to ask why you think Dr. Chakwas is more unecessary to have than the male and female toilets? The ship didn't need them in ME1 and yet magically we have some now in ME2. But I like that they are there even if you can't use them - it makes it more real!

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be <insert random job title here> and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Someone could argue that there's no need for the characters after every mission to show up being healed as Chakwas is not a central character and is just there to make some coherency for the obvious fact that a warship needs a medic but well, it's smudboy being smudboy.

God I wish she'd do something like that.  Seens a good aside/segway into Shepard's character.  Oh right, Shepard's a bucket o bricks!  Buckets of fun.

[smudboy]

The Enkindler wrote...

I like the added extras in the background games like Mass Effect have or things thrown in just to make it seem more real or authentic. Like the mission to get Dr. Chakwas some brandy. It serves no plot purpose, but I WANT to do it anyway because somehow she makes it worth it.

The only thing is shows us is she's a rambling drunk, and useless.

And somehow when the crew gets abducted, I strangely feel compelled to get Dr. Chakwas back again. Has she worked her spell on me? Yes probably. Seeing a familiar character from ME1 and having an attachment helped make Mass Effect 2 seem like a proper continuation, rather than having an all new game full of strangers.

It was terribly contrived, but whatever pulls your heartstrings.  Go team useless redshirt!

How exactly she comes to work for cerberus - obviously it's explained by the Illusive Man's quest to rebuild Shepard and give him everything to make him/her the same as before - including building a ship to the same design spec as Normandy 1 and getting Dr. Chakwas and Joker - they were obviously "approached" for recruitment. I doubt they went to the Job Centre and stood in a queue at the Cerberus kiosk. The specific details are irrelevant for my enjoyment. If they get elaborated on in future character development i.e. more drunken tales from the Dr, then I welcome them.

Obviously it's explained.  Obviously it's because the Illusive Man did it.  Obviously they were "approached" for recruitment.

Obviously Chakwas' drunken rambling and obviously Joker forgot to mention this.

I obviously can't wait to have more obvious talks with Chakwas.  ME: The Drunken Tales.

Other games I've played are just so linear or bland (e.g. no NPCs in the background or characters to just do random fluff missions for). I even liked to do those random missions like talking the hanar priest off the promenade (and the multiple ways to do it like paying it off, convincing it that it's doing wrong or threatening it). And that ME1 mission with the woman's baby and her brother in law wanting it genetically modified - having them show up in ME2 in the background at Sirta Foundation was great! It's like pay off to see the results of your choices.

Yes, the inclusion of yet another useless talking head: riveting.

The pay off?  Okay then...

And finally, I'd like to ask why you think Dr. Chakwas is more unecessary to have than the male and female toilets? The ship didn't need them in ME1 and yet magically we have some now in ME2. But I like that they are there even if you can't use them - it makes it more real!

For one a character is...a character, and a toilet is a toilet.  Talking heads and voice actors and the like.  I mean, you could describe a toilet in detail, but I don't think that's the point of the story...

Having a doctor onboard a spaceship is fine, just have her do something.  And bloody show us.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Next time Bioware should just put Shepard on a ship by himself, then Smudboy won't complain all the time about how the characters don't make sense on said ship.

[smudboy]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Next time Bioware should just put Shepard on a ship by himself, then Smudboy won't complain all the time about how the characters don't make sense on said ship.

Shepard could have an introspective moment that way.  Anything to give Shepard some exposition.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Dr. Chakwas is DEAD in 2 of my 6 careers.



But I still like her despite her being pointless. I agree it would have been nice to have a real side mission for her on ME2.



It'd be extremely hilarious if she was somehow crucial to your success in Mass Effect 3.

[Reptilian Rob]

"Goddamnit Marcus, I gotta find Maria, UHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

[Shockwave81]

smudboy wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

Next time Bioware should just put Shepard on a ship by himself, then Smudboy won't complain all the time about how the characters don't make sense on said ship.

Shepard could have an introspective moment that way.  Anything to give Shepard some exposition.

How do you propose that Shepard could have an introspective moment on an empty ship that could be considered worthy of great character development?

Perhaps walking around the CIC looking at empty seats? Trying to open sealed doors only to find an empty room on the other side? Or perhaps looking out into space? The choices are somewhat limited - unless you wanted to have a dialog wheel that existed solely to allow Shepard to talk to him/herself...

In order to give the kind of character depth you appear to be craving, BioWare would need to implement a dialog wheel that branched off into an indeterminate number of extra dialog wheels, or even provide the ability to choose facial expressions/body language at whim. 

I don't know about you, but I process (inside my head, of course) the internal/external impacts of my character's decisions, and that's what makes it enjoyable for me. Sure, I may know (after multiple playthroughs) how things will pan out, but there's not a lot that BioWare can do about that. They have one more game left to complete the 'trilogy', and something tells me that you won't be happy with that either.

[smudboy]

Shockwave81 wrote...

How do you propose that Shepard could have an introspective moment on an empty ship that could be considered worthy of great character development?

Because she's/he's alone?

Perhaps walking around the CIC looking at empty seats? Trying to open sealed doors only to find an empty room on the other side? Or perhaps looking out into space? The choices are somewhat limited - unless you wanted to have a dialog wheel that existed solely to allow Shepard to talk to him/herself...

This is all potentially viable, yes.

In order to give the kind of character depth you appear to be craving, BioWare would need to implement a dialog wheel that branched off into an indeterminate number of extra dialog wheels, or even provide the ability to choose facial expressions/body language at whim. 

Ah, no, character depth, exposition and development does not require extra dialog wheels.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

I don't know about you, but I process (inside my head, of course) the internal/external impacts of my character's decisions, and that's what makes it enjoyable for me. Sure, I may know (after multiple playthroughs) how things will pan out, but there's not a lot that BioWare can do about that. They have one more game left to complete the 'trilogy', and something tells me that you won't be happy with that either.

I'm sure pulling the trigger to head shot people is enjoyable to you, too.  Make up all the internal/external analogies you want.  If Shepard is not a character, then they're just a flat voiced Ekman head.

ME2 did not feel like a sequel, let alone provide any character development for Shepard. (There was barely any in ME1 for that matter.)

[Jackal904]

smudboy wrote...

The good doctor has no reason to exist in the ME universe. Her ridiculously jumbled motivations and completely useless presence makes her nothing but fluff.

Cue the Debbie Downer noise...




Edit: Just thought of another one!

Modifié par Jackal904, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:13 .

[Shockwave81]

smudboy wrote...
I'm sure pulling the trigger to head shot people is enjoyable to you, too. 

Ouch...I choose not to agree with everything you say, and all of a sudden I'm a shooter fanboy with no appreciation for character development and the intricacies of storytelling? 

Insults aside, I'm not saying that Mass Effect is perfect - but what's done is done. I finished playing ME1 again last night, and all I could think about was how I would love to see the fall of the Prothean empire in greater detail. Unfortunately, I doubt that this will ever come to fruition, and as much as I hate to do so, I have to accept it if I am to enjoy the games.

I don't agree that every character in the game should have hour upon hour of exposition simply to justify their existence - sometimes they are simply there because their presence fosters a sense of familiarity and comfort.

Chakwas fulfills the 'familiarity and comfort' requirements in my view, and picking on her seems to be going too far. What little screen time she gets isn't all that bad (a testament to her VA in my opinion), and you don't need to talk to her much to know that she cares about Shepard and is committed to his/her cause. I will freely admit that I would be upset if something serious were to happen to her in ME3 - I'm a big softy though, so that probably doesn't count for much. 

For what it's worth, I do agree with you on many points in your other threads/posts.

[Some Geth]

Shockwave81 wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I'm sure pulling the trigger to head shot people is enjoyable to you, too. 

Ouch...I choose not to agree with everything you say, and all of a sudden I'm a shooter fanboy with no appreciation for character development and the intricacies of storytelling? 

Insults aside, I'm not saying that Mass Effect is perfect - but what's done is done. I finished playing ME1 again last night, and all I could think about was how I would love to see the fall of the Prothean empire in greater detail. Unfortunately, I doubt that this will ever come to fruition, and as much as I hate to do so, I have to accept it if I am to enjoy the games.

I don't agree that every character in the game should have hour upon hour of exposition simply to justify their existence - sometimes they are simply there because their presence fosters a sense of familiarity and comfort.

Chakwas fulfills the 'familiarity and comfort' requirements in my view, and picking on her seems to be going too far. What little screen time she gets isn't all that bad (a testament to her VA in my opinion), and you don't need to talk to her much to know that she cares about Shepard and is committed to his/her cause. I will freely admit that I would be upset if something serious were to happen to her in ME3 - I'm a big softy though, so that probably doesn't count for much. 

For what it's worth, I do agree with you on many points in your other threads/posts.

This one gets it .

[fivefingaslap18]

I agree to an extent with Smudboy, this has gone far enough. You're a ******* bully Smudboy. I don't like ME2 as much and saw problems with it (though not as thoroughly as you've dissected it.) I even watched your hour review of ME2 and have to say that for the most part it was well thought out but there were things that were a little ridiculous as well to decipher.



Here is what I can tell you that will not only benefit you, but keep you from being universally hated. Don't think everyone is against you. Don't derail a thread that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. Finally, learn how to agree and disagree with someone without turning it into a giant **** you fest.



If you don't stop, I will alert you to the moderators and hope you get banned. I've been lurking these forums too long and decided to come back on to say this to you because you need a ******* reality check.

[smudboy]

Shockwave81 wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I'm sure pulling the trigger to head shot people is enjoyable to you, too. 

Ouch...I choose not to agree with everything you say, and all of a sudden I'm a shooter fanboy with no appreciation for character development and the intricacies of storytelling? 

Insults aside, I'm not saying that Mass Effect is perfect - but what's done is done. I finished playing ME1 again last night, and all I could think about was how I would love to see the fall of the Prothean empire in greater detail. Unfortunately, I doubt that this will ever come to fruition, and as much as I hate to do so, I have to accept it if I am to enjoy the games.

I don't agree that every character in the game should have hour upon hour of exposition simply to justify their existence - sometimes they are simply there because their presence fosters a sense of familiarity and comfort.

Chakwas fulfills the 'familiarity and comfort' requirements in my view, and picking on her seems to be going too far. What little screen time she gets isn't all that bad (a testament to her VA in my opinion), and you don't need to talk to her much to know that she cares about Shepard and is committed to his/her cause. I will freely admit that I would be upset if something serious were to happen to her in ME3 - I'm a big softy though, so that probably doesn't count for much. 

For what it's worth, I do agree with you on many points in your other threads/posts.

If you took the shooting comment personally: please don't.  I too enjoy shooting things in the head with a high powered rifle.  That was just an example that you could've railed on about because you love shooting things in the head.  You can rationalize your internal madeup-fantasy of interaction with Shepard the Character (psst: who is you) whenever you make a dialog choice.  It's just what people do when there's a lack of proper exposition. As for me, I'm talking pure WYSIWYG.  I'm not making stuff up here.

(Aside: how the hell did you interpret that as me telling you're a shooter fanboy?)

[smudboy]

fivefingaslap18 wrote...

I agree to an extent with Smudboy, this has gone far enough. You're a ******* bully Smudboy. I don't like ME2 as much and saw problems with it (though not as thoroughly as you've dissected it.) I even watched your hour review of ME2 and have to say that for the most part it was well thought out but there were things that were a little ridiculous as well to decipher.

Here is what I can tell you that will not only benefit you, but keep you from being universally hated. Don't think everyone is against you. Don't derail a thread that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. Finally, learn how to agree and disagree with someone without turning it into a giant **** you fest.

If you don't stop, I will alert you to the moderators and hope you get banned. I've been lurking these forums too long and decided to come back on to say this to you because you need a ******* reality check.

How am I a bully?  In case you haven't noticed, I'm the one who gets ridiculous pictures made after him because I have a dissenting opinion.  Perhaps my writing is too clear for the average reader?

Where have I derailed a thread?  I've alwasy responded about Chakwas.

I for one actually take great offense to the "agree to disagree" bullcrap.  I choose not to agree because I simply don't.  People choose not to agree for their own reasons.  In any event, I personally don't care.

I occasionally swear at people on here when that's all they can comprehend, so they might read the rest of my words with some degree of clarity.  I think sometimes that's all people need a little "**** you", and then, "here's argument n."  However, I've been completey civil today and in this forum.

Feel free to argue the validity, usefulness, character expo, plot relativity, Chakwas value in any argument you like.  I'd be happy to respond in an unbiased manner.  This is what people who argue do.

[Spornicus]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Do you really want to watch her patching up a wound? Prescribing medication? Doing a long and boring surgery? If Bioware did that, you would be ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas was and what a waste of time it was having to watch her patch up the squad after a mission. Or would you prefer the Normandy had no doctor at all? Then you would lose your **** and whine about yet another "plothole," because heaven forbid there's another minor detail that changes the game in absolutely no way.

Stop looking for things to complain about, it's getting tiresome.

[fivefingaslap18]

smudboy wrote...

fivefingaslap18 wrote...

I agree to an extent with Smudboy, this has gone far enough. You're a ******* bully Smudboy. I don't like ME2 as much and saw problems with it (though not as thoroughly as you've dissected it.) I even watched your hour review of ME2 and have to say that for the most part it was well thought out but there were things that were a little ridiculous as well to decipher.

Here is what I can tell you that will not only benefit you, but keep you from being universally hated. Don't think everyone is against you. Don't derail a thread that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. Finally, learn how to agree and disagree with someone without turning it into a giant **** you fest.

If you don't stop, I will alert you to the moderators and hope you get banned. I've been lurking these forums too long and decided to come back on to say this to you because you need a ******* reality check.

How am I a bully?  In case you haven't noticed, I'm the one who gets ridiculous pictures made after him because I have a dissenting opinion.  Perhaps my writing is too clear for the average reader?

Where have I derailed a thread?  I've alwasy responded about Chakwas.

I for one actually take great offense to the "agree to disagree" bullcrap.  I choose not to agree because I simply don't.  People choose not to agree for their own reasons.  In any event, I personally don't care.

I occasionally swear at people on here when that's all they can comprehend, so they might read the rest of my words with some degree of clarity.  I think sometimes that's all people need a little "**** you", and then, "here's argument n."  However, I've been completey civil today and in this forum.

Feel free to argue the validity, usefulness, character expo, plot relativity, Chakwas value in any argument you like.  I'd be happy to respond in an unbiased manner.  This is what people who argue do.

I don't care that you know how to talk civilly with another person. You don't do it. I told you that I would report you and I did. Get over your superiority complex before it is the end of you. It may work with your group of friends and you may have them for however long they stay with you.

I am not doing this because I want to look popular, but because you are a bully. You obviously aimed to prove to me that this is everyone else's fault for hating you and treating you horribly. Maybe you getting banned would be a good idea. Just read what you write and look at it objectively instead of subjectively.

As I said, I don't have to agree with someone on every point. I don't agree with you on every point. I can choose not to do something, or be a driving force. I will be a driving force because you need to sit down and be quiet for once.

I know a man like you that is a black and white person. It's either bad or good, or it's this way or that way. The world is grey. It's always been grey. That's not going to change because that's realistic. You however, are far from that. It may be too much to ask for you to grow up and learn that, but it won't be too hard to ask for you to be banned and I'm sure there will be plenty more soon willing to see that occurs.

[Soverign 666]

smudboy wrote...

The good doctor has no reason to exist in the ME universe. Her ridiculously jumbled motivations and completely useless presence makes her nothing but fluff.

Shes probably going to be the key to ending the reaper threat

[smudboy]

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Do you really want to watch her patching up a wound? Prescribing medication? Doing a long and boring surgery? If Bioware did that, you would be ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas was and what a waste of time it was having to watch her patch up the squad after a mission. Or would you prefer the Normandy had no doctor at all? Then you would lose your **** and whine about yet another "plothole," because heaven forbid there's another minor detail that changes the game in absolutely no way.

Stop looking for things to complain about, it's getting tiresome.

Your'e making my argument for me.

1) Don't introduce an element if you're not going to use it.  It's called Chekhov's Gun.
2) I am ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas is, and how confusing her motivations/existence is.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Do you really want to watch her patching up a wound? Prescribing medication? Doing a long and boring surgery? If Bioware did that, you would be ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas was and what a waste of time it was having to watch her patch up the squad after a mission. Or would you prefer the Normandy had no doctor at all? Then you would lose your **** and whine about yet another "plothole," because heaven forbid there's another minor detail that changes the game in absolutely no way.

Stop looking for things to complain about, it's getting tiresome.

I think we're forgetting that medi-gel does most of this work. I think medics in ME universe are more sub-used than we think, but at the same time the game shows that there are injuries that cannot be healed simply by aplying medi-gel, at least storywise. Maybe she's there only for long treatments like Joker's and Kaidan's and really big injuries like Garrus's after recruitment. But we can't deny that she is used somehow or her presence is unjustified, like the facial treatment that is handled by her or the simple FACT that a warship needs a medic. Is that simple. A warship WITHOUT a doctor and then injuries like Garrus's appearing healed had they not look for a real medic anywhere, would be a plothole.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 02 juillet 2010 - 11:55 .

[smudboy]

fivefingaslap18 wrote...
I don't care that you know how to talk civilly with another person. You don't do it. I told you that I would report you and I did. Get over your superiority complex before it is the end of you. It may work with your group of friends and you may have them for however long they stay with you.

And under what grounds are you reporting me?  What post?  Where is this personal ad hom that is so damaging and offensive to your character or thoughts?

I am not doing this because I want to look popular, but because you are a bully. You obviously aimed to prove to me that this is everyone else's fault for hating you and treating you horribly. Maybe you getting banned would be a good idea. Just read what you write and look at it objectively instead of subjectively.

No, I'm merely asking where I am a bully, and I apologize if I have been.  I'm here for the argument.

Why can't you simply tell me what I wrote was bad in your own words, since I can't see the negativity in mine.

As I said, I don't have to agree with someone on every point. I don't agree with you on every point. I can choose not to do something, or be a driving force. I will be a driving force because you need to sit down and be quiet for once.

Please continue to try and shut me up then.  More power to you.  Additionally, more power to me, this being a public forum and all.

I know a man like you that is a black and white person. It's either bad or good, or it's this way or that way. The world is grey. It's always been grey. That's not going to change because that's realistic. You however, are far from that. It may be too much to ask for you to grow up and learn that, but it won't be too hard to ask for you to be banned and I'm sure there will be plenty more soon willing to see that occurs.

Oh, so you're the one making the ad homs, or "delving into the psyche" that is mine.  Well, that's quite charming.

So I'm banned because you believe I see things as black and white?  Well, that is pretty cool, I must admit.

To keep this post on topic: I think Chakwas should get a haircut.  I'm thinking Jack style.

[Soverign 666]

Wow this thread went from being a joke thread about doctor chackwas to a battle about smudboy lol