104 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The good doctor has no reason to exist in the ME universe. Her ridiculously jumbled motivations and completely useless presence makes her nothing but fluff.

She's the only doctor on a ship. I'd say she's not useless.

On the SR1.  Not the SR2.

[Soverign 666]

smudboy wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The good doctor has no reason to exist in the ME universe. Her ridiculously jumbled motivations and completely useless presence makes her nothing but fluff.

She's the only doctor on a ship. I'd say she's not useless.

On the SR1.  Not the SR2.

What other doctor was there on the SR2?

[Jackal904]

smudboy wrote...

2) I am ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas is, and how confusing her motivations/existence is.

Dude she's just a doctor on the Normandy. It's not like she's that important of a character. Relax, she isn't supposed to be some super deep character. You are honestly the ****iest and most unhappy person I have ever met on an internet forum. You remind me of Dr. Zalost from the cartoon Courage the Cowardly Dog.

You complain about everything Mass Effect 2 related. Get a ****ing life, seriously. I mean that in the purest definition of it. It's not an insult, honestly, quit trolling and stop being so damn negative. No one likes you on these forums, no one. Go find something better to do than search for every opportunity to complain about ME2 on these forums.

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Do you really want to watch her patching up a wound? Prescribing medication? Doing a long and boring surgery? If Bioware did that, you would be ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas was and what a waste of time it was having to watch her patch up the squad after a mission. Or would you prefer the Normandy had no doctor at all? Then you would lose your **** and whine about yet another "plothole," because heaven forbid there's another minor detail that changes the game in absolutely no way.

Stop looking for things to complain about, it's getting tiresome.

I think we're forgetting that medi-gel does most of this work. I think medics in ME universe are more sub-used than we think, but at the same time the game shows that there are injuries that cannot be healed simply by aplying medi-gel, at least storywise. Maybe she's there only for long treatments like Joker's and Kaidan's and really big injuries like Garrus's after recruitment. But we can't deny that she is used somehow or her presence is unjustified, like the facial treatment that is handled by her or the simple FACT that a warship needs a medic. Is that simple. A warship WITHOUT a doctor and then injuries like Garrus's appearing healed had they not look for a real medic anywhere, would be a plothole.

I've no problem with a warship having a doctor.  Same with anything, if they're irrelevant to the plot, then they're fluff.  This argument could be applied to ME1 (where Shepard, our protagonist, is post-beacon.)  But not in ME2, since she explains her existence in the plot (or at least attempts to), and makes a mess of her causality, as well as Jokers.  Or she was just a rambling old drunk woman for comic relief.  It would've been better to have a brand new doctor/Cerberus medic, or heck: Mordin.

It seemed in ME1 her conversation only involved talking about Anderson and Kaidan, which really didn't go too far.

On a side note, it would've been quite interesting if Mordin was potentially involved in Garrus' surgery.

[smudboy]

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

2) I am ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas is, and how confusing her motivations/existence is.

Dude she's just a doctor on the Normandy. It's not like she's that important of a character. Relax, she isn't supposed to be some super deep character. You are honestly the ****iest and most unhappy person I have ever met on an internet forum. You remind me of Dr. Zalost from the cartoon Courage the Cowardly Dog.

You complain about everything Mass Effect 2 related. Get a ****ing life, seriously. I mean that in the purest definition of it. It's not an insult, honestly, quit trolling and stop being so damn negative. No one likes you on these forums, no one. Go find something better to do than search for every opportunity to complain about ME2 on these forums.

Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

Preferably with more swearing.  That would help clear up some things.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Soverign 666 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

The good doctor has no reason to exist in the ME universe. Her ridiculously jumbled motivations and completely useless presence makes her nothing but fluff.

She's the only doctor on a ship. I'd say she's not useless.

On the SR1.  Not the SR2.

What other doctor was there on the SR2?

There isn't.

[Jackal904]

smudboy wrote...

Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

They tell you if you talk to them in ME1...

Modifié par Jackal904, 03 juillet 2010 - 12:31 .

[smudboy]

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

They tell you if you talk to them in ME1...

ME2.

[Jackal904]

smudboy wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

They tell you if you talk to them in ME1...

ME2.

ME1.

[Pacifien]

smudboy wrote...
Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

Why? Overexplaining is just as poor storytelling as not explaining enough.

Chakwas wanted the familiarity of being a doctor on a starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. Joker was screwed over by the Alliance and he wanted to fly an elite starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. They both seem quite clear it's a suicide mission, too, so you could infer they feel the Collector threat is worth joining Cerberus's mission to combat it.

If that's not explanation enough, I'd say you're demanding far too much detail than the story actually warrants. A full history and minutely explained motivation do not usually accompany the minor supporting characters of most stories.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Chakwas is there to be the doctor and that's all. She does appear as a doctor in ME1 when Shepard wakes up after Eden Prime. In ME2 you are able to heal your scars after a treatment with her too.

Is she a doctor?  I never see her do any doctorly things.  She could be and it'd be the same thing.  The only thing I recall is here making a comment about Shepard's EEG readings post-beacon.

Do you really want to watch her patching up a wound? Prescribing medication? Doing a long and boring surgery? If Bioware did that, you would be ****ing about how BORING Dr. Chakwas was and what a waste of time it was having to watch her patch up the squad after a mission. Or would you prefer the Normandy had no doctor at all? Then you would lose your **** and whine about yet another "plothole," because heaven forbid there's another minor detail that changes the game in absolutely no way.

Stop looking for things to complain about, it's getting tiresome.

I think we're forgetting that medi-gel does most of this work. I think medics in ME universe are more sub-used than we think, but at the same time the game shows that there are injuries that cannot be healed simply by aplying medi-gel, at least storywise. Maybe she's there only for long treatments like Joker's and Kaidan's and really big injuries like Garrus's after recruitment. But we can't deny that she is used somehow or her presence is unjustified, like the facial treatment that is handled by her or the simple FACT that a warship needs a medic. Is that simple. A warship WITHOUT a doctor and then injuries like Garrus's appearing healed had they not look for a real medic anywhere, would be a plothole.

I've no problem with a warship having a doctor.  Same with anything, if they're irrelevant to the plot, then they're fluff.  This argument could be applied to ME1 (where Shepard, our protagonist, is post-beacon.)  But not in ME2, since she explains her existence in the plot (or at least attempts to), and makes a mess of her causality, as well as Jokers.  Or she was just a rambling old drunk woman for comic relief.  It would've been better to have a brand new doctor/Cerberus medic, or heck: Mordin.

It seemed in ME1 her conversation only involved talking about Anderson and Kaidan, which really didn't go too far.

On a side note, it would've been quite interesting if Mordin was potentially involved in Garrus' surgery.

She's not really relevant plotwise, but she's there to make sense of things, of the Normandy as a warship as was in ME1. In the SR-2 she's there to work the same way she did on ME1, she accepted TIM's invite. Weren't she there would be another doctor, probably Cerberus's as they couldn't be sure Mordin would accept Shepard's offer. And, Mordin is a medic yes, but it wasn't his function to heal people, he was there to make research, as he was doing it on Omega, and he did in his time as STG working on the genophage. Sure, Mordin will know how to heal soldiers at some level, but the game makes some exposition that this is not his specialty as this is Chakwas.
As why she's in ME2, I had no problem in accepting her reasons.
The sidequest is there for the same reasons the engineer's sidequest, the chef and all the Kelly dialogue: to make some connection between the player and the crew and be a kind of dinamic for the kidnapping part. Also, it brought some depth to an old character and I was fine with it, relevant to plot or not.

[smudboy]

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

They tell you if you talk to them in ME1...

ME2.

ME1.

I'm asking for ME2, please.

[smudboy]

Pacifien wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

Why? Overexplaining is just as poor storytelling as not explaining enough.

Chakwas wanted the familiarity of being a doctor on a starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. Joker was screwed over by the Alliance and he wanted to fly an elite starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. They both seem quite clear it's a suicide mission, too, so you could infer they feel the Collector threat is worth joining Cerberus's mission to combat it.

If that's not explanation enough, I'd say you're demanding far too much detail than the story actually warrants. A full history and minutely explained motivation do not usually accompany the minor supporting characters of most stories.

I don't want overexplanation.  Actually, less explanation for a simple, clear reason would work.  The fact that they gave us a garbled mess of reasons, creates and then exacerbates the problem.

Joker wants to fly: he's the best the Alliance has.  So why would the Alliance ground him, inextricably forcing him to join a terroist group?  I can understand his anger, but why ditch their best pilot?  And who says he wants to fly in an elite starship, now that the SR1 is gone?  Wouldn't a pilot just want to fly?

The story has to explain the existence of itself.  Especially when a character just rambles off a bunch of reasons that interfere with causality.  I'm still waiting for a clear understanding of how, when and why Chakwas joined up.

[Caesar914]

Since when do bureaucrats and high level people ever do the logical thing? Just because Joker is the best pilot doesn't mean they won't want to keep him out of the picture and shut him up.

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
She's not really relevant plotwise, but she's there to make sense of things, of the Normandy as a warship as was in ME1. In the SR-2 she's there to work the same way she did on ME1, she accepted TIM's invite. Weren't she there would be another doctor, probably Cerberus's as they couldn't be sure Mordin would accept Shepard's offer. And, Mordin is a medic yes, but it wasn't his function to heal people, he was there to make research, as he was doing it on Omega, and he did in his time as STG working on the genophage. Sure, Mordin will know how to heal soldiers at some level, but the game makes some exposition that this is not his specialty as this is Chakwas.
As why she's in ME2, I had no problem in accepting her reasons.
The sidequest is there for the same reasons the engineer's sidequest, the chef and all the Kelly dialogue: to make some connection between the player and the crew and be a kind of dinamic for the kidnapping part. Also, it brought some depth to an old character and I was fine with it, relevant to plot or not.

I have no problems with exposition on side quests or characters, although I certainly wish they were all related to the main plot.  As such, they are obvious fluff.

I'm quite sure Mordin's function in the clinic on Omega was to heal people.

It's the exposition we get that doesn't make any sense.  I cannot accept her reasons.  If you listen, and start to figure out what she's actually saying, you'll find out it's a garbled mess of nonsense, as I've already listed on the first page.

Ken and Gabby need a part.  You get the part.  They're part of Cerberus since the Battle of the Citadel.
Gardner needs some provisions.  You get some provisions.  He's there for personal reasons.
Chakwas wants some brandy.  You get the brandy.  What follows is a contrived mess of nonsensical motivations and events which puts into question both hers and Joker's causality.  We cam chalk that up to her being drunk, but then it loses it's value, since what she's saying doesn't make sense.  It could be very true that she joined a terrorist group because of Joker (which makes her a moron, shows her need for stability, and skills as a doctor), and Shepard (a sense of respect and esteem.), and because she just wanted to be stationed on a ship (which makes her a moron.)

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
She's not really relevant plotwise, but she's there to make sense of things, of the Normandy as a warship as was in ME1. In the SR-2 she's there to work the same way she did on ME1, she accepted TIM's invite. Weren't she there would be another doctor, probably Cerberus's as they couldn't be sure Mordin would accept Shepard's offer. And, Mordin is a medic yes, but it wasn't his function to heal people, he was there to make research, as he was doing it on Omega, and he did in his time as STG working on the genophage. Sure, Mordin will know how to heal soldiers at some level, but the game makes some exposition that this is not his specialty as this is Chakwas.
As why she's in ME2, I had no problem in accepting her reasons.
The sidequest is there for the same reasons the engineer's sidequest, the chef and all the Kelly dialogue: to make some connection between the player and the crew and be a kind of dinamic for the kidnapping part. Also, it brought some depth to an old character and I was fine with it, relevant to plot or not.

I have no problems with exposition on side quests or characters, although I certainly wish they were all related to the main plot.  As such, they are obvious fluff.

I'm quite sure Mordin's function in the clinic on Omega was to heal people.

It's the exposition we get that doesn't make any sense.  I cannot accept her reasons.  If you listen, and start to figure out what she's actually saying, you'll find out it's a garbled mess of nonsense, as I've already listed on the first page.

Ken and Gabby need a part.  You get the part.  They're part of Cerberus since the Battle of the Citadel.
Gardner needs some provisions.  You get some provisions.  He's there for personal reasons.
Chakwas wants some brandy.  You get the brandy.  What follows is a contrived mess of nonsensical motivations and events which puts into question both hers and Joker's causality.  We cam chalk that up to her being drunk, but then it loses it's value, since what she's saying doesn't make sense.  It could be very true that she joined a terrorist group because of Joker (which makes her a moron, shows her need for stability, and skills as a doctor), and Shepard (a sense of respect and esteem.), and because she just wanted to be stationed on a ship (which makes her a moron.)

You're right, that's all of them, moron or not.

Edit: Yes, duh. The primary function of Mordin's clinic was healing. But still I don't think he's on the level of Chakwas as a paramedic doctor.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 03 juillet 2010 - 02:28 .

[Jackal904]

Pacifien wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

Why? Overexplaining is just as poor storytelling as not explaining enough.

Chakwas wanted the familiarity of being a doctor on a starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. Joker was screwed over by the Alliance and he wanted to fly an elite starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. They both seem quite clear it's a suicide mission, too, so you could infer they feel the Collector threat is worth joining Cerberus's mission to combat it.

If that's not explanation enough, I'd say you're demanding far too much detail than the story actually warrants. A full history and minutely explained motivation do not usually accompany the minor supporting characters of most stories.

Do not waste time argueing with him. He'll just continue to pull **** out of his ass, no matter how little sense it makes or how wrong it is.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Chakwas is just a doctor on the Normandy.
Joker's just a pilot on the Normandy.
Explain how (and when, and why) they got there.

Why? Overexplaining is just as poor storytelling as not explaining enough.

Chakwas wanted the familiarity of being a doctor on a starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. Joker was screwed over by the Alliance and he wanted to fly an elite starship, particularly one captained by Shepard. They both seem quite clear it's a suicide mission, too, so you could infer they feel the Collector threat is worth joining Cerberus's mission to combat it.

If that's not explanation enough, I'd say you're demanding far too much detail than the story actually warrants. A full history and minutely explained motivation do not usually accompany the minor supporting characters of most stories.

I don't want overexplanation.  Actually, less explanation for a simple, clear reason would work.  The fact that they gave us a garbled mess of reasons, creates and then exacerbates the problem.

Joker wants to fly: he's the best the Alliance has.  So why would the Alliance ground him, inextricably forcing him to join a terroist group?  I can understand his anger, but why ditch their best pilot?  And who says he wants to fly in an elite starship, now that the SR1 is gone?  Wouldn't a pilot just want to fly?

The story has to explain the existence of itself.  Especially when a character just rambles off a bunch of reasons that interfere with causality.  I'm still waiting for a clear understanding of how, when and why Chakwas joined up.

You have a point. But, if I remember well (and I'm getting the help from ME wiki) Joker like the rest of the crew was just reasigned. Why? Because Shepard was problematic although he saved everyone's ass and it was convenient to the plans of the Council to dismiss his story about the reapers. What happens is that he thought it was bull**** what the council and the Alliance did and the momment he knew Cerberus was bringing him back he accepted the invite. It was all about his rage and will to work with Shepard, Cerberus being terrorist or not, nothing to do with the reassignment.

[Pacifien]

smudboy wrote...
I don't want overexplanation.*snip*

You've been arguing about the plot and characterization so vehemently now, I'd doubt if you'd even realize when you were asking for overexplanation.

I don't find much lacking in the explanation department for why Joker and Chakwas were there. They tell me some of it, I can infer the rest. It's not even incongruous to me, so as I see your attempts to make sense of it, yes, it comes across as a desperate attempt for criticism and overexplanation.

[smudboy]

Pacifien wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I don't want overexplanation.*snip*

You've been arguing about the plot and characterization so vehemently now, I'd doubt if you'd even realize when you were asking for overexplanation.

I don't find much lacking in the explanation department for why Joker and Chakwas were there. They tell me some of it, I can infer the rest. It's not even incongruous to me, so as I see your attempts to make sense of it, yes, it comes across as a desperate attempt for criticism and overexplanation.

So because I have a plot-axe to grind, and am desiring characterization, vehemently, I think I wouldn't realize when I was asking for overexplanation??

Dude: good writing is clear.  And.  Concise.  That's all!  All I want.  On characters, plot, exposition, etc.

What they tell you is ****.  You can't make sense of it.  I think I know what they're trying to say, but it's so bloody unclear.

[DeathScepter]

but it is bloody clear, dear sir.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Marcus Fenix should come into this topic and curb-stomp it, too much whining.

[DeathScepter]

lol

[lazuli]

I, too, thought Chakwas seemed out of place on a Cerberus vessel, and I never bought her reasons for being there.



That said, when you call her a rambling drunk, Smudboy, do you mean that she just rambles when she is drunk, or that she is a drunk? I don't think it's fair to accuse her of alcoholism with the little evidence we have.



And to get back on topic... I love her voice in both games.

[smudboy]

DeathScepter wrote...

but it is bloody clear, dear sir.

Explain.