78 réponses à ce sujet

[PnXMarcin1PL]

I would definetly join The Alliance as a Spectre.

[Nicodemus]

The way my femshps look at it is that if you protect your neighbours they'll protect you. A paragon shep looks at the bigger picture and sees that humanity is still new to the big bad universe and needs all the friends it can get. Serving as a spectre is the ticket to unifying everyone against a common cause, sure there is a lot of red tape and governmental manoevering but you have to play be the rules dictated to fit in. Trust is earned by protecting the common cause and enough aliens already see humanity as a serious threat.



The other option is to throw it all to the wind and stand on your own or with your boot placed firmly on the alien neck. In that scenario you'll have few friends and a lot of enemies who wouldn't mind seeing human milkshakes. Continuing on with TIM and Cerberus with a humanity first agenda maybe good for the short term but probably not for the long term. Sure you can probably defeat the Reapers but expect the rest of the galaxy to band together to remove the human menace afterwards.



Going it on your own or making your own merc band are great ideas too but my femsheps serve the greater good.

[KitsuneRommel]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

All that said, I would rather side with the Citadel Council through the Spectres, but strictly within the limits of the question posed, Alliance > Cerberus.

Join the citadel council and do what exactly? Ah yes, "reapers".

[Felfenix]

Nicodemus wrote...

The way my femshps look at it is that if you protect your neighbours they'll protect you. A paragon shep looks at the bigger picture and sees that humanity is still new to the big bad universe and needs all the friends it can get. Serving as a spectre is the ticket to unifying everyone against a common cause, sure there is a lot of red tape and governmental manoevering but you have to play be the rules dictated to fit in. Trust is earned by protecting the common cause and enough aliens already see humanity as a serious threat.

The other option is to throw it all to the wind and stand on your own or with your boot placed firmly on the alien neck. In that scenario you'll have few friends and a lot of enemies who wouldn't mind seeing human milkshakes. Continuing on with TIM and Cerberus with a humanity first agenda maybe good for the short term but probably not for the long term. Sure you can probably defeat the Reapers but expect the rest of the galaxy to band together to remove the human menace afterwards.

Going it on your own or making your own merc band are great ideas too but my femsheps serve the greater good.

Except Cerberus agenda doesn't exclude gains for the greater galaxy, simply because it's a human interest organization. What benefits humanity often benefits the galaxy.

The citadel is as Asari/Turian/Salarian focussed as Cerberus is human-focssed. The Council puts their races first, and have never really stepped up to help humanity or other non-Council races, who are essentially second-class citizens.

Keep in mind too that if it weren't for TIM and Cerberus, the Alliance and Council would still have you hunting Geth, and nobody would have gone after the Collectors, much less prepare for the Reapers. The Council wouldn't believe in Reapers unless say... one attacked the Citadel and almost killed them or something. Oh wait...

Modifié par Felfenix, 02 juillet 2010 - 09:02 .

[KitsuneRommel]

Felfenix wrote...

The citadel is as Asari/Turian/Salarian focussed as Cerberus is human-focssed. The Council puts their races first, and have never really stepped up to help humanity or other non-Council races, who are essentially second-class citizens.

"Go colonize the attican traverse."

"Help! Our colonies are under attack!"

"No. That's what you get for colonizing so close to terminus systems."

[Nicodemus]

I disagree Felfenix, Cerberus is performing heinous acts and experiments not to better the galaxy but to make humanity the dominant speices. TIM even hints to this a number of times, sure he's happy to save the galaxy but only to his advantage and to make sure that humanity is the species in power.. basically he wants humanity to be the overlords of the milky way. Cue rest of the galaxy banding together and wiping out humanity as they are seen as a threat.. it's the Krogan and Rachni problem all over again.



Yes the council is run by Asari/Turians/Salarians and now Humans. Sure a certain amount of race favour will happen but the general goal of the Council is to protect all citizens of Council Space. They make that clear when you head into the Traverse, they made that clear about humanity colonising beyond the council borders.



And who is to say that the Alliance and Council wouldn't have found out about the collectors? TIM says a few times that he has info that others will recieve in due course and that you need to act quickly to get there before others do. In the end if the game had allowed you to be Alliance or Council based you still would have learnt about the collectors. TIM is not the only one who has all the information.

[Felfenix]

Nicodemus wrote...

I disagree Felfenix, Cerberus is performing heinous acts and experiments not to better the galaxy but to make humanity the dominant speices. TIM even hints to this a number of times, sure he's happy to save the galaxy but only to his advantage and to make sure that humanity is the species in power.. basically he wants humanity to be the overlords of the milky way. Cue rest of the galaxy banding together and wiping out humanity as they are seen as a threat.. it's the Krogan and Rachni problem all over again.

Yes the council is run by Asari/Turians/Salarians and now Humans. Sure a certain amount of race favour will happen but the general goal of the Council is to protect all citizens of Council Space. They make that clear when you head into the Traverse, they made that clear about humanity colonising beyond the council borders.

And who is to say that the Alliance and Council wouldn't have found out about the collectors? TIM says a few times that he has info that others will recieve in due course and that you need to act quickly to get there before others do. In the end if the game had allowed you to be Alliance or Council based you still would have learnt about the collectors. TIM is not the only one who has all the information.

Except if you weren't with Cerberus, you would not have been privy to that information. By the time you got it, TIM may have obtained the... you know what at the end. You only get the chance to destroy it because you're with Cerberus. By working with Cerberus, you have a say in what goes on within the organization. As I mentioned, TIM is a pretty inept manager, and lets you do whatever you seem to please, just as the "rogue" cells were able to in ME1. He was miffed to not get what he wanted at the end (if you took that path) but he's no fool and you've still helped him as much as he's helped you. Shepard is still humanity's best hope in his eyes. It's unfortunate the Council and Alliance don't share his faith and foresight. You have more ability to prevent ME1 style Cerberus actions by working within the organization.  Not all Cerberus members are as evil as those encounter in ME1 though anyway. All the Cerberus crew except Miranda are good people. Working with Cerberus, you were never forced to do anything immoral, and in-fact, had opportunities to lead Cerberus missions on better paths than they would have followed if Shepard wasn't with them. (The Quarian in the first mission, the final mission decision, etc.)

I find TIM less likely to betray me than the Alliance or Council, as well. When he does keep secrets or betray me, it tends to at least be for some overall gain, like obtaining the IFF, being able to investigate the ship, etc. The Council or Alliance would do something like prevent me from taking my ship on a crucial time-vital mission... Oh wait, they did. Cerberus gets Alliance/Council intel, resources, and such no matter what, and anything heinous they'd try behind my back while working with them, I would have even less chance of knowing about and foiling if not working with them.

BTW, using the rogue Cerberus cells as examples for Cerberus being evil then justifies the Spectres (Saren, and even Nihilus if you listened to Samara) and perhaps even STG (depending on your views of the Krogan uplift and/or the genophage) as examples of the Citadel Council's evil.

Humanity already overlords if you installed a human council. In the long run, at worst, humans are just the new turians. As long as nothing genocidal (not that the Citadel races cared about cases of genocide committed by themselves and others) or less fair than the council has done before happens, the other races won't band together and act in such a way. A humanity first policy and TIM's views are no different than those of the Citadel Council of ME1. If you're really trying to take a moral stand, should it really matter if the Collectors are attacking colonies in Citadel space or not? All the more reason to work for an organization to help more than just those they "have" to assist. TIM and Cerberus are pro-humanity, but that doesn't mean they must be anti-alien anymore than the turians were anti-human. The turians have been described as imperialists and Council described as selfishly tyrannical, even by other races, and that was before the humans joined.

Both the Citadel and the Alliance would likely have suggested the same thing as TIM did at the end if they were in his position (if they would even have the will to stop the Collectors as they certainly didn't have the will to stop Saren or even the Reapers after ME1) and I wouldn't have trusted either of them with it either.

Modifié par Felfenix, 02 juillet 2010 - 10:41 .

[Livett]

Cerberus.



In fact i'm not entirely sure that the Illusive man wasn't modelled on me.

[HBC Dresden]

I have a small hope that ME3 will focus (or kinda focus) on getting the support from the rest of the Spectres, the only group that gets stuff gone. Screw the Council, screw the Alliance, and screw Cerberus. Cerberus is evil who mostly gets its members from people who have been disgusted by the Alliance and Council politicking and later, totally bashing Shepard once s/he died. Persuade the Spectres to join the mini-doom squad we took ME2 to build to defeat the Reapers.

[2kgnsiika]

HBC Dresden wrote...

I have a small hope that ME3 will focus (or kinda focus) on getting the support from the rest of the Spectres, the only group that gets stuff gone. Screw the Council, screw the Alliance, and screw Cerberus. Cerberus is evil who mostly gets its members from people who have been disgusted by the Alliance and Council politicking and later, totally bashing Shepard once s/he died. Persuade the Spectres to join the mini-doom squad we took ME2 to build to defeat the Reapers.

I seriously doubt Shep'll be recruiting any more squadmates, since there are 16 potential squadmates from ME1 & 2. Just imagine what the fan reaction will be if they just ditch the majority of those im favor of new Spectre team members.

[Sursion]

I'd love to start my own merc company. It certainly felt like it at the end of ME2. I don't like the Alliance or Cerberus. I'm on my own team.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

I would without a doubt stick with Cerberus had I the choice.

[Prince of Kemet]

Sursion wrote...

I'd love to start my own merc company. It certainly felt like it at the end of ME2. I don't like the Alliance or Cerberus. I'm on my own team.

"The Wolfpack" would be a good name for it. Kind of funny when you think about it. A bunch of wolves lead by a shepherd, it almost sounds criminal. 

Modifié par Prince of Kemet, 03 juillet 2010 - 06:24 .

[LenNnoOo Vas Normandy]

I'd be a Spectre, they're just badass. In ME1 u could do what u wanted as a spectre and all the council did was give u a scolding lol. I mean Shepard has already taken Miranda so whats left in Cereberus to offer, the only thing they got going for themselves is lots of money... which i cant lie i wouldn't mind having in ME3 but i'm spectre all the way. And with the Alliance i'm indifferent about they didn't really do ****.



Personally though i would much rather fight with the Quarians on the Migrant fleet and kick lots of synthetic ass!

KEELAH SE'LAI >=D

[Foolsfolly]

To answer the OP's question:



I'd want to work Shepard's side. The Council's too slow, stupid, and busy with politics to make real lightning quick changes that the universe needs to survive. Going back to them exclusively would be a mistake simply because they won't believe Shepard, they won't mobilize until it's too late, and they can't make large sweeping changes in a speedy time limit.



Going back to Cerberus is also a mistake. The Illusive Man lies to you most of the time. He out-right lies (Collector Cruiser) or lies via omission (Horizon, Freedom's Progress, Shepard's body being recovered). He keeps secrets and tells lies because he believes he has to. He gets things done but there's always an angle so it benefits him. If he honestly believes what he says, then he's also delusional in thinking that strength for Cerberus (a terrorist guerrilla cell-oriented organization) is strength for every human. Ultimately, I wouldn't trust the Illusive Man.



The only person shown time and time again to care about the Reaper threat is Commander Shepard. I think it's past time that Shepard went out there and stopped working for others and began working independently to save the universe. If the Council and Cerberus want to help then they need to fall in line and help otherwise just stay out of Shepard's way and be grateful that someone's looking out for the well being of the universe.

[HBC Dresden]

2kgnsiika wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

I have a small hope that ME3 will focus (or kinda focus) on getting the support from the rest of the Spectres, the only group that gets stuff gone. Screw the Council, screw the Alliance, and screw Cerberus. Cerberus is evil who mostly gets its members from people who have been disgusted by the Alliance and Council politicking and later, totally bashing Shepard once s/he died. Persuade the Spectres to join the mini-doom squad we took ME2 to build to defeat the Reapers.

I seriously doubt Shep'll be recruiting any more squadmates, since there are 16 potential squadmates from ME1 & 2. Just imagine what the fan reaction will be if they just ditch the majority of those im favor of new Spectre team members.

well, i kinda meant as a force in the plot, not actual squadmates. like in me1, the alliance/council was behind shep, in me2, only cerberus is behind shep (and anderson), and so in me3, the spectres should be with shep,

[lovgreno]

Given the choice I would pick Alliance before Cerberus because they have more resources and are more competent. And despite what some Shepards might think about aliens the Council are even more recourcefull but due to Cerberus they and the Alliance are sadly not an option at the moment. So for now necesity calls that Shepard have to rely on the almost comicaly failing Cerberus.

[Lynhe]

Personally, i would start my own little faction. Get Wrex and the Krogan, Legion and the Geth, Tali and Quarians, and contact the Rachni.

[TiaraBlade]

It's definitely an issue I (and I think many others) had with ME2.



With the Council, even if you save their collective butts from Sovereign OR put their collective human butts on the Council after letting Sovereign kill the old ones, you get jack squat from them in ME2.



Council: Yeah Shephard you're the reason we're here and you were proven right about Sovereign... except we think that somehow the Geth have the ability to create a ship that can curb stomp our strongest dreadnought... so anyway we're not gonna help you out.



Shepard: Huh? Are you KIDDING me?!?!?!?



Council: Well you're working with Cerberus



Shepard: well they brought me back to life and gave me this great ship! What are YOU doing for me?



Council: not a damn thing so I guess we'll let you be a renegade with Cerebrus and we'll make sure you stay with them since we won't give you a ship, any intelligence, heck not even any back pay!



So you get rail roaded into working with Cerberus, an organization that experimented on human soldiers like Toombs, tried to revive the rachni, killed an Admiral, killed dozens on the Migrant fleet... hey but that was ANOTHER part of Cerberus!



Yeah, right. The same organization who is so pro-human that it experiments on its own to gain an advantage over aliens crews the SR2 with the nicest bunch of folks you've ever seen, including the xenophilic Kelly (what WON'T she screw?) and they have ZERO problem with all those aliens you bring on board.



Again, yeah right.

[TiaraBlade]

I went a little off topic but the same thing I said about the Citadel applies to the Alliance. Here I am, a decorated Alliance officer who is actually DOING something about tens of thousands of missing humans and Ashley is criticizing me?!?!?!?



Heck, I showed up with Garrus who is allying with the pro-human/anti-alien Cerberus- I think he knows the score.

[TiaraBlade]

xcept if you weren't with Cerberus, you would not have been privy to that information. By the time you got it, TIM may have obtained the... you know what at the end. You only get the chance to destroy it because you're with Cerberus. By working with Cerberus, you have a say in what goes on within the organization. As I mentioned, TIM is a pretty inept manager, and lets you do whatever you seem to please, just as the "rogue" cells were able to in ME1. He was miffed to not get what he wanted at the end (if you took that path) but he's no fool and you've still helped him as much as he's helped you. Shepard is still humanity's best hope in his eyes. It's unfortunate the Council and Alliance don't share his faith and foresight. You have more ability to prevent ME1 style Cerberus actions by working within the organization.  Not all Cerberus members are as evil as those encounter in ME1 though anyway. All the Cerberus crew except Miranda are good people. Working with Cerberus, you were never forced to do anything immoral, and in-fact, had opportunities to lead Cerberus missions on better paths than they would have followed if Shepard wasn't with them. (The Quarian in the first mission, the final mission decision, etc.)

The problem is that the above, while making sense when you consider ME2, simply falls apart when you consider ME1: there is NO way that the Ceberus of ME2 reconciles with that of ME1. It can't have THAT many "rogue" cells. The only Cerberus that I saw in ME1 were sick, sick people. Yet in ME2 we have nothing but nice folks (even Miranda for the most part) who are all just so happy to work alongside aliens.

Nonsense. Just didn't fit. Bioware REALLY dropped the ball with that part of ME2. The upgraded shooting was great and the characters were awesome as well as presentation and some of the sidequests but the main storyline where you were dumped for no reason by the Council and had to ally with your mortal enemy of Cerberus... except now it was all hearts and lollipops... no... epic fail.

[TiaraBlade]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Taranatar9 wrote...

expwnit wrote...

I don't see how anyone who played ME1 wouldn't see Cerberus as the bad guys. They do anything to accomplish their goals. Sounds like Saren, huh?

Funny thing about that.  For at least twenty years before ME1, his willingness to do anything to accomplish his goals made Saren a hero and the council's right hand man.  Only by cooperating with the genocidal robots, which Cerberus hasn't done (that we know of) did he cross the line.

Exactly. For some reason many people here hold the council and alliance in high esteem while forgetting how often they work underhandedly.

I believe that Saren kept quite a bit of his extreme measures under the radar. Witness all the stuff he did in the first novel yet instead blamed it on Anderson rather than admit that he purposely set it off.

As for the Council, I think many people have a far dimmer view of them after ME2. The Taurian Councilor I think has a special place in Rengade Shepard hell coming his way...

[TiaraBlade]

Spornicus wrote...

Cerberus gets the job done. They're not afraid to get their hands dirty for the greater good.

You mean THEIR greater good!